Is teaching religion child abuse?

reply to post by pieman

not that it's my point, but......works in what way?

What do you mean? Works in what way?

You are able to add and subtract and multiply? You are able to balance your checkbook?

We are able to create computers, rockets, build homes, etc.

Again, what do you mean???

does history work? it usually only assumes a single, often inaccurate, perspective.

So? History is the best we can get from studies. History has been revised many times. You know why? Education works! Archaeology. Mathematics. Science. History is not set in stone!

how about languages, it's almost pointless to try to teach languages by any means other than immersing. that doesn't work.

I don't understand?

we all know the science taught in schools is inaccurate because it is so simplified, it bears little resemblance to a scientific understanding of the universe, doesn't actually work.

How is it inaccurate? As the studies progress, the students get better understanding of the universe. They also get a better understanding of how scientific method work. If there are parts of science that is wrong or needs revising, some of those students might add understanding and revise science.

a large part of the maths taught in school don't have any practical bearing on the real world, doesn't really work.

Do you drive a car? That's science and math working.

so, back to my actual point, should parents teach their children according to what the parent believes to be best or according to what others believe to be best?

You mean like parents who believe in flat earth teaching their kids that the earth is flat and science is false?

I am an areligious person and believe that one's spirituality is something to be explored and discovered on an individual basis and on one's own terms. As such, I have not subjected my own children to any belief system.

Recognizing that many families raise their children with the expectation that they adopt and adhere to a specific faith/belief system/religion, I think that the abuse aspect comes into play if the child eventually elects not to conform and is treated by the parents like a pariah for this action.

If their ultimate choice to find their own way is not embraced with understanding and tolerance, then the damage is done and it becomes abuse. That also would speak volumes about the quality of that religious belief system in the first place.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by GoneGrey]

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

Figures, but I am not here to petty bicker so OK then very well denounce your creator AND WONDER WHY HE SENDS DESTROYERS TO YOUR REALMS TO CLEANS THIS TYPE OF THINKING THAT EXISTING W/O HIM IS OK. exits THREAD feeling a little dim

I never said one word about renouncing the creator. I never even said what I believe! You put the words in my mouth.

When you have an understanding of WHY others think the way they do.
It makes it easier to be more understanding,sympathetic and tolerant.
I am not expecting any stars or flags for this thread.I want others to
honestly voice their reasons and concerns.This thread is for you,not for
me.I don't have a hidden agenda.I am seeking more understanding of
my fellow members.Mamabeth

No, I do not think that religious instruction of children is child abuse.

That the question can be posed seriously, however, illustrates the importance of holding atheists to the same "burden of proof" as is every other person who makes a categorical claim.

Whoever would accuse someone of abuse for expressing an opinion ought be required to show that the opinion expressed was in error. This is an obvious precaution against one religion using the law to harass rival religions.

Fortunately, in the United States, parents have a constitutional right to the free exercise of their religion. "Free exercise" includes the right to speak of their religion in their own home when their children are present.

I would not mind at all if schools were introducing a variety of different religions to my children. By variety, I mean not focusing on any single one. I would, however mind if my children were being taught one single religion taught as "THE" religion.

It is a good idea for kids to learn of many different religions. That will plant the seed for them in the future, whether they decide to further learn about one particular one, or several.

If religion of one variety were to be taught in public schools,it should not be mandatory- there should be an opt out for anyone who didn't want to attend, or make it a voluntary extra curricular activity for those interested.

I do have to question some parents who teach their religious beliefs to their kids where they aren't allowed to be kids. A kid shouldn't fear the threat of hell for every single thing they do that is not acceptable to the religion.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by virraszto]

There's nothing wrong in teaching children about religion. What's wrong is forcing them into one and brainwashing them. All knowledge and theories should be shared, but none of those should be forced upon anyone as the undeniable truth without the freedom of questioning them.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching your children about religion, i do however not like the fact that some people indoctrinate their children into believing. It should be their own choice when they are old enough if they want to believe or not. When they have all of the info and facts.

reply to post by mamabeth

I am asking,do
you believe, teaching children about religion,is a form of child abuse? If your
answer is yes,I would like for you to explain why.

I don't think teaching about religion is child abuse, but I think that teaching religion is true may be a mild to mid form of child abuse.

Why?

9/11 - Pretty damn good reason to not teach certain aspects of religion as truth.

Taking my kids to the park while the local religious nutters are holding ABORTION PICTURES in plain view and me having to explain that the people are just crazy which invariably led me to having to leave the park because some religious ass couldn't keep his sick graphic opinions away from children.

The breeding of intolerance, especially against the gay community. Love is love people, get over it. If you don't want to see two guys or girls kissing, look away, no one is forcing you to watch. Yet it is utterly disrespectful to hold up signs applauding the hope that all "fags" will die. Bigots.

And many more reasons. Would I want to raise a child to grow up to potentially become one of Gods "warriors", or to be intolerant or hypocritical by nature? No, that's negligent parenting in my book. I instead teach real morals, not bastardized morals.

Why are atheists afraid of a subject they deem to be nothing but fairy
tales and myths?

Because of the so called "good" religious folks who've waged war against anyone who disagrees. Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

What harm could there be in telling children stories of Jesus,
or any other religious figure?

What harm could there be in telling them Jesus may not have actually existed? That God may not actually be real? Why is this a one way argument for you? Why not ask from the other perspective?

Would teaching children that God isn't real be child abuse?

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by mamabeth

 

Would teaching children that God isn't real be child abuse?

I agree with most of your post, except this part. My answer to this would be yes, it's child abuse, simply because, by teaching them that God does NOT exist, you are doing the exact same thing as when you teach them that God DOES exist. In both cases, you are forcing a truth upon the individual, which, should not be done. The individual should be given all the info, let him/her grow up, and then let that person be able to choose their own way. Whether you think you are sure that God does or does not exist is not relevant. Thinking you're right doesn't make you right.

reply to post by vasaga


I may not have not made the point as clear as I thought I had. The question was mainly to point out the hypocrisy of the OP's question.

Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by vasaga

 

I may not have not made the point as clear as I thought I had. The question was mainly to point out the hypocrisy of the OP's question.

Oh ok. Little misunderstanding then =)

reply to post by vasaga


No problem!

I'm not against the notion of a creative intelligence, regardless of what some may think here on ATS. Although, I am personally against man made deities, in which to my opinion, all worshiped deities on Earth both now and in the past are all man made inventions created in an attempt to try to make sense of the universe. Nothing inherently wrong with that in itself, but to wage petty wars over the validity of such a belief is detrimental to the continuation and growth of our species.

If I had a say in it, if there was one thing that I could forcefully change upon all people on this planet. I would erase all religious thought. Not because I *hate* religion itself, but because I hate what religion has given us. Man is capable of being a moral entity without the fear of punishment of some higher unseen force, so it's an unessential archaic form of superstition. I personally distrust openly fundamental religious people as I have to wonder what their true intentions are. Are they being moral because it is moral, or are they being moral because their religion promises an ultimate reward for good behavior during their stay on Earth? If one is being moral based on promise of reward, then are they truly moral beings?

reply to post by sirnex


I would say they're not.. And yeah, you're basically right.

reply to post by mamabeth

I Don't agree this Because Teaching Religion is Teaching Moral

Well...It probably depends on how aggressively the child is being force fed religion...some parents will just not settle for anything less than a highly religious child that follows in their footsteps...and that absolutely disgusts me...

I live in a country town...and I live a few kilometers out of town...open fields and bushland surround my house...I can only just see my nearest neighbours house...but yet, I still have Mormons coming to my door with their pamphlets...it's usually a little girl, maybe 10 years old, with her mother...it really does sadden me to see this...that little girl gets dragged along and forced into things she probably doesn't want to do...she doesn't look very happy, and who would be going around to strangers houses and pushing your beliefs down strangers throats? She could be out having fun with her friends and having a real life, but her Mom won't have that...

I can only imagine what kind of harsh rules that girl has to live by...all religions enforce totally bogus and unnecessary rules upon people...half the things in this world are considered "demonic" or "satanic" by Christians...for Gods sake...some times they don't even let their innocent little kids go and run around with their friends collecting candy because it involves scary costumes!?!? Or a history that may involve satanism? It's nothing but a time for the kids to dress up, get together, and have fun...nothing more...nothing less...and that's all it is in the eyes of the children...it's the irrational parents depriving them of a good time that attach utterly ridiculous and overzealous meanings to the event...

If a child decides they want to learn about religion...so be it...let them make up their own mind about what they want to believe...if not...YES, IT IS CHILD ABUSE IMO...my reason? I wrote a whole thread on it...

It's threads like this and the type of responses they generate that gets me going.

If teaching a kid religion is abuse, than so is science.Because GUESS WHAT? Science gets disproved EVERY DAY - FACT.

I swear, some of the posters here are so fascist it's scary.

Hardly any of you even know what ABUSE is.

You just do not know what you are talking about.

Why has everyone become such weaklings and cowards now that teaching a kid fairy tales is abuse? Absolute stupidity IMHO.

Yet meanwhile, our nations bomb the holy hell out of various nations around the world, yet no one calls this abuse??

What retarded backwards world do I live in???!!!!

[edit on 4-1-2010 by muzzleflash]

Originally posted by sirnex

Why are atheists afraid of a subject they deem to be nothing but fairy
tales and myths?

Because of the so called "good" religious folks who've waged war against anyone who disagrees. Nothing but a bunch of hypocrites.

And yet somehow you and your ilk are not hypocrites for doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING?

Here is what Religious nuts say "Think as I think or DIE!!!"

Here is what you Anti-Religious nuts say "Think as I think or DIE!!!"

IMHO you are all the same pro or anti religion. Arrogant, egotistical, pretentious, fascist, and worst of all WRONG.

Well in this case to a degree. Ok, if I tell you something that I myself dont know is a lie and Im using the information in a positive light you can call it ignorance. Basically you have positive intent with the information but don't know or understand that its really a lie. The same applies with religions. Yes there are some truths in there, but 98% of it is twisted and contorted to fit the views of the oligarchs of that time and to control masses of people. The Christian Bible in particular is full of vulgar and child-like mannerisms acted out by Jesus and God himself and doesn't fit the model of this all loving and compassionate being. When you read the Bible closely you will find numerous accounts were Jesus and God just dont act like they should. So in the majority of the cases people just dont know that the Bible is a lie.

Religion teaches you to look outside of yourself for the answers and says that you cant obtain enlightenment until you die. You are taught to be a victim from day one of being a Christian, Muslim or whatever. You are taught a twisted duality that you are to fear but love God. Then the FEAR aspect is rationalized by saying fear is in some way a form of comfort. Then you are taught to be a good Christian and follows God's "examples" and follow his laws and commandments. But what Christian really follows anything God says. He teaches you how to keep a slave in Exodus, he tells you to stone a unruly teenager to death, he tells you to go a smite other humans in HIS name, he tells you to OBEY ME. Thats a slave master if I have ever heard of one. Then look at the the main Bible of Christianity today, The King James VERSION. Version means opinion, and that exactly what King James had in my mind, was his opinion about the "Rights of Kings" which was substituted for the pilgrims "real" Bible. Yet the King James Version is read in most churches. Would you read the Obama Version of the Bible?

Religion also teaches separation with the illusion of acceptance of other faiths. It has also now become a multi-million dollar industry. Its amazing to me that the Lord told his people not to gather unto them material things, or seek worldly possessions, and to leave it behind for the less fortunate and follow his word. Yet you see T.D. "Big Money" Jakes riding a Bentley and living in a $2million dollar homes. And he's "blessed". If your a man of "God" then all you need his him and nothing else to be blessed. Its called living by example.

Religion is nothing more then a way not to take personal responsibility. You are taught that with faith you will be "rescued" and all will be well. The truth is no one or no thing is gonna save you. Its all up to you.

You know movies are taken for granted in the many positive messages it relays. Yes there are many negatives as well, however its dismiss as just being "entertainment". Kung Fu Panda is a wonderful little story about believing in you and trusting others that believe in you. When Po lost the Dragon Scroll to Tialong, Ty was perplexed that the scroll was empty. Po had realized that and said, "There is no secret ingredient. Its only you!

reply to post by muzzleflash

If teaching a kid religion is abuse, than so is science.Because GUESS WHAT? Science gets disproved EVERY DAY - FACT.

SCIENCE SAYS: "We search for answers, and update and add to these answers when we find a mistake in these answers or find they are incomplete."

RELIGION SAYS: "We already have the answers...and don't you dare question it or be eternally damned!"

[edit on 4/1/10 by CHA0S]