Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons'

reply to post by oneclickaway

the word ‘person’ is purely related to human beings as distinct and distinguished from animals

Not neccesarily. Within the legal context, the word person most definitely can be applied to entities that are not human.

At first glance it appears that it was probably not the intent of the article to suggest conveying legal status to dolphins, but it's not too many steps from "it's morally wrong to harm them" to "dolphins have legal rights."

Again...if we want to do that...I'm ok with it. But whatever we do, let's do it because we decided to.

reply to post by Mythtified


I believe all animals should be treated as non human persons. S&F OP .

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

what would make it morally acceptable to kill and/or lock up all the other life forms for human beings?

reply to post by December_Rain

I believe all animals should be treated as non human persons.

...ok. but what do you mean by that? Are you suggesting that you'd like people who kill and eat animals to be tried in court for murder? What about animals who kill animals? Shall they be taken to court as well?

What does it mean to be "treated" as a non-human person?

reply to post by Mythtified


for real? smarter than dogs, cats, and chimpanzees? whoa, and those creatures are more sociable than I am

so, are porpoises and whales the same way?

the only time I had seen a dolphin was when they were performing.

we should treat those species with more respect

Originally posted by yiersan

The researchers argue that their work shows it is morally unacceptable to keep such intelligent animals in amusement parks or to kill them for food or by accident when fishing. Some 300,000 whales, dolphins and porpoises die in this way each year.

what would make it morally acceptable to kill and/or lock up all the other life forms for human beings?

Considering the percentage of meat-eating humans on this planet, I think most humans would agree that it is acceptable to kill and/or lock up other life forms.
I think the scientists are trying to advocate an exception for the dolphins, based on their level of intelligence. Perhaps we should come up with a third species type: in addition to "human" and "animal", perhaps "humal?" or "animan"?

Of course, social conditioning would never allow us to think that far out of the box...

reply to post by yiersan

what would make it morally acceptable to kill

Morality is a purely subjective phenomenon. Anything can be morally justified because morality is a flexible, situational thing that varies between people.

For example: Some people believe killing humans is wrong. Some people believe it is morally acceptable to kill when it is in self defense. Others believe it is morally acceptable to kill people when those people happen to live in foreign nations that they don't like. There are even some people who believe that it's morally acceptable to trap people in their basement and rape, torture, kill and then eat them.

The difference lies solely within the people making these moral judgements.

If somebody says that it it is or is not morally acceptable to incarcerate and kill living beings simply because they happen to not be human, once again...the difference lies solely within the person making those distinctions.


[edit on 4-1-2010 by LordBucket]

Originally posted by LordBucket
reply to post by yiersan

 

what would make it morally acceptable to kill

Morality is a purely subjective phenomenon. Anything can be morally justified because morality is a flexible, situational thing that varies between people.

I agree. And moral paradigms and belief systems seem to have very little to do with scientific intelligence, and everything to do with social intelligence and integrity.
Dophins seem to have a high degree of the latter.

reply to post by LordBucket


starred your response, thanx!

I just watched the movie "The Cove", and I recommend it to all of you, a wonderful yet saddening documentary on the slaughter of dolphins in a National Park at Taiji, Wakayama, in Japan.

Dolphins are wonderful animans or humals (hehe), its about time we liberate them from any human danger, but we would have to change all our ways for any animal to coexist in peace with us, stop the damn pollution, and respect your fellow earth inhabitants.

But generally I think all animals and even insects are, lets say, self aware and conscious, just a little different than we are, but we have problems grasping that very aspect, for one because we lack the skill to communicate with most of them.

reply to post by Mythtified

social intelligence and integrity.
Dophins seem to have a high degree of the latter.

Do they? Let's not romanticize them simply out of loathing for humanity.

Content from external source
dolphins...not only partake in homosexual activity, but also gang-rape
and kidnap females who don’t reciprocate their sexual advances.

Please don't misundertand...I'm not suggesting they're "evil and deserve to be killed." Not at all. I simply want to avoid the guilt trip that some people feel for being human. Let's neither loathe animals for being beneath us, nor idolize them for not sharing our faults.

Let's try to see things how they are, as clearly as we can.

I love dolphins Also. My family used to live by the sea, we used to got out on a boat into the sound and take fish with us. All you have to do was tap on the side of the boat and the dolphins would come up out of the water and lean on the boat, stick out there tongues and take the fish right out of your hands. We are not talking Flipper here, we are talking about a dolphin the size of a small whale. Very very gentle loving animal.

I guess those of you that think that dolphins are so nice haven't read about gang rapes dolphins perpetuate on members of other pods or when they murder porpoises just because they are slightly different.

Killers

Just because an animal looks like its smiling it doesn't meant its nice, its still a wild animal.

Originally posted by Phlegmi
I guess those of you that think that dolphins are so nice haven't read about gang rapes dolphins perpetuate on members of other pods or when they murder porpoises just because they are slightly different.

Killers

Just because an animal looks like its smiling it doesn't meant its nice, its still a wild animal.
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Unfortunately that kind of behavior provides even more reasons to liken them to a "human person".

reply to post by Mythtified

that kind of behavior provides even more reasons to liken them to a "human person".

I think that's a fair assessment.

And like humans, dolphins aren't "good" or "evil." They have some behaviors we find adorable, and they have some behaviors we find not-so-adorable.


Let me ask some questions to the thread:

1) If there were a serious movement to grant dolphins legal protections, for example, criminalize the killing of dolphins by levvying fines, incarceration or execution of humans who killed dolphins...would you support it?

2) If some number of dolphins were genetically adapted, or given technological aids...such that they could communicate verbally with humans...would your answer to #1 change?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LordBucket]

This is a good thing. However, our fellow humans must be treated more humanely before elevating other animals to "person" status.

reply to post by Mythtified


That's cool, we're finally recognizing that our planet has two sentient species on it, cetaceans and primates.

I can't wait till we can communicate properly with them!

reply to post by sirnex


It makes me laugh that we are trying to communicate with Aliens when we haven't even learnt to communicate with a sentient species on our own planet.
Anyway all animals should be treated with respect regardless of their intelligence or species.

This also reminds me of what my father taught me it goes something like this "Only kill what you intend to eat and dont waste any part of the animal"
Survival for yourself+Respect for your victim



[edit on 4/1/2010 by SvenTheBerserK]

well, my understanding of dolphins, is in reality, thier wild animals adn can be dangerous. Their not like flipper, or example, lets say yuor drowning, at least in movies,w e always see a dolphin coming to save that person. In reality, so ive learned, theyde be just as likely tp poke n push yuo around while yuo were drowning.
However, for scientists to make such a lifeless emotionless remark, they are wrong* scince will make it so one day we all think like dr. spok..logical, and leave aside our compasions* by todays standards, scientist seem to wanan burn the bible! isnt that would hitler would have done???

Originally posted by LordBucket
[
Let me ask some questions to the thread:

1) If there were a serious movement to grant dolphins legal protections, for example, criminalize the killing of dolphins by levvying fines, incarceration or execution of humans who killed dolphins...would you support it?

Yes and I would like to include Elephants, whales, tigers etc. too in such a system.

2) If some number of dolphins were genetically adapted, or given technological aids...such that they could communicate verbally with humans...would your answer to #1 change?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by LordBucket]

No and I would rather not interfere with their natural process of growth i.e, no interference with them genetically.