Biblical scholar's date for rapture: May 21, 2011

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Melissa101

 

Israel is NOT the abomination of desolation you posted.It will be a MAN,
who will stand in the third temple and declare himself God.

This is a misconception. Desolation means to leave desolate, to deprive. The land of Israel had been deprived of the Jews for a very long time. Abomination means (in this context) to abolish thus abolish the deprivation of the Jews to their land. The holy place is Israel. When was the land given back to the Jews? 1947/1948. The chapter goes on to talk about the tribulation starting after the abomination of desolation, which could not mean after the antichrist sits in the throne in the Temple, because the antichrist comes after the tribulation starts.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Melissa101]

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by Melissa101

 

Israel is NOT the abomination of desolation you posted.It will be a MAN,
who will stand in the third temple and declare himself God.

The abomination of Desolation is an event that has already occurred, in 70ad. Its part of the things that Christ mentioned would happen within a generation of when he made these statements:

Here it is in Matthew and Mark, only mentioned as the “abomination of desolation”:

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

"

"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

But here, Luke 21 tells EXACTLY what is was referring too:

Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, "As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down."

"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Its about the “End of the Age of the Jews” and the beginning of the “Age of the Gentiles” or some call it the “Age of the Church”...

Here is the actual history of the event:

With four legions under his command, Titus began an assault on the city in spring, A.D. 70. In less than four weeks, his forces had breached the walls of the so-called New City, or suburb of Bezetha. Only the inner city and the Temple itself remained to be taken. A siege wall was quickly built around the city, and the circumvallation had the desired effect of increasing starvation. By August, the outer Temple court had been reached and, in the ensuing attack, the Temple was burned to the ground and all captives butchered. Titus was hailed as imperator by his troops. In a final desecration to the Temple, sacrifice was made to the Roman standards in the Temple court.

So your abomination was the Emperor worship being done in the Court of the Temple Mount.
Some of the other odd events that happened just before the revolt and the destruction:

Numerous signs, prodigies, and portents are seen in the land of Judaea at the outset of the rebellion. Included in those recorded by Josephus, armed hosts and chariots in the clouds are seen flying over all the land of Judaea; a light at night makes the temple appear as though it were on fire; Halley's Comet, in the appearance of a sword, flies over the region. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says that the closest approach of the comet that year was in March, immediately prior to the revolt.

reply to post by Melissa101


I am sorry,but your theology is wrong.You are telling people,that Israel
is the abomination of desolation.I am to assume,you believe the church
replaced the jews in salvation,as well.

reply to post by defcon5


Your theology is also wrong.We are living in the age of the gentiles NOW!
The church age is coming to an end,very soon.

Originally posted by Melissa101
The chapter goes on to talk about the tribulation starting after the abomination of desolation, which could not mean after the antichrist sits in the throne in the Temple, because the antichrist comes after the tribulation starts.

The tribulation did start after the destruction of Jerusalem, in 70AD. The entirety of Revelations is about the final age, the “Age of the Gentiles/Church”. The “Man of Sin” or the “Little Horn” has already been declared god and worshiped in the Temple, as I showed you above (Emperor Cult Worship). The Roman Caesar's held other titles beside being Caesar, one of which was the “Pontifex Maximus”, the head of the Roman Churches. The job description of the Pontifex Maximus matches verbatim with the things that are mentioned in Daniel as being attributes of the “Little Horn”.

The station of the Pontifex Maximus still remains today. In 376AD, Emporer Gratian relinquished the title to the Bishop of Rome, Damasus I. Now we simple refer to them by the name of Holy Pontiff.

Originally posted by mamabeth
Your theology is also wrong.We are living in the age of the gentiles NOW!
The church age is coming to an end,very soon.

Negative, we are in the final age, there is no other age to come after this one. If you are referring to Millennialism, that is more Futurist tripe like the Rapture. Don't get suckered in by Futurism, as I already have shown the people who brought that line of interpretation to you don't even believe in it.

reply to post by defcon5


I am not a catholic.The catholic church does not represent the entire
christian faith.

reply to post by mamabeth


Ok, neither am I...
So why are you following an interpretation that COMES FROM the Catholic Church then?

Calling someone a biblical scholar is like saying the Atari 800 is a supercomputer.

reply to post by defcon5


I really shouldn't be surprised by the posts I am reading here.Sheep
being led to the slaughter through ignorance,denial and misdirected
theology.
Since we are living in the end times,you will be in for a rude awakening.
Preparations for the third temple are being completed as we post!
The two witnesses,mentioned in revelation,are seen through out the
entire world.This could only be done via a satellite link,technology they
did not have in 70ad.

Originally posted by skunknuts

Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by skunknuts

 

Jesus said, "...of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matthew 24:36

Real Christians don't set dates.

That's a good one, I hadn't heard it before....Hmm, real Christians are probably few and far between, for this, and many other abominations of Christ's teachings.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Real Christians are few and far between eh? Day will come devil-boy that you'd give your right arm and left one too for that matter to find a Christian period.

[edit on 19-1-2010 by Bombeni]

Originally posted by mamabeth
Since we are living in the end times,you will be in for a rude awakening.

We have been in the “End Times” for close to 2000 years, since 70AD. I am not in for a rude awakening as I live each day as though it might be my last. Those who are looking for signs of an “End Times” Tribulation period, and a rebuilt temple, are the ones who are going to be in for a shock when the end comes and there is no temple...

You are looking for signs for some reason, the Bible says that there will be no signs, it will come like a thief in the night. A rebuilt Temple is a sign, so is some antichrist making a peace treaty 3.5 years before the “End”. I suggest that you stop trying to read signs, because you have been mislead by the Roman Catholic Church, who wish to hide their presence in Prophecy from the world.

Since you either have not read what I have posted, or you have not understood it, let me digress for a second.

All these things that you are talking about, a rapture, a rebuilt temple, the two witnesses, a 7 year tribulation period, etc, are all part of a school of prophetic interpretation called Futurism. Futurism came about during the Protestant Reformation, as part of what the Catholic Church called the Counter-Reformation. During the Counter Reformation, the RCC held the Fifth Lateran Council, whose purpose was to silence the Protestant Reformers who were showing that Rome, specifically the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church, were the Fourth Beast of Daniel, the First Beast of Revelations, the “Little Horn” of Daniel, and the Woman Riding the Beast in Revelations. So they got some men from the Jesuit Order of the RCC to write competing interpretations. One of these interpretations from Rome is called Futurism (the one you obvoiusly believe in), and was written by Jesuit Doctor Francisco Ribera in 1590:

Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) was a Jesuit doctor of theology, born in Spain, who began writing a lengthy commentary in 1585 on the book of Revelation (Apocalypse) titled In Sacrum Beati Ioannis Apostoli, & Evangelistiae Apocalypsin Commentarij, and published it about the year 1590. He died in 1591 at the age of fifty-four, so he was not able to expand on his work or write any other commentaries on Revelation. In order to remove the Catholic Church from consideration as the antichrist power, Ribera proposed that the first few chapters of the Apocalypse applied to ancient pagan Rome, and the rest he limited to a yet future period of 3 1/2 literal years, immediately prior to the second coming. During that time, the Roman Catholic Church would have fallen away from the pope into apostasy.Then, he proposed, the antichrist, a single individual, would:

Persecute and blaspheme the saints of God.
Rebuild the temple in Jerusalem.
Abolish the Christian religion.
Deny Jesus Christ.
Be received by the Jews.
Pretend to be God.
Kill the two witnesses of God.
Conquer the world.

So if you are not a Catholic, why are you following Catholic Dogma? As a matter of fact the RCC itself rejects this dogma, and their current stand on Prophetic Interpretation is the school of Preterism. Understand?

Originally posted by mamabeth
Preparations for the third temple are being completed as we post!

If it is, then what Christ said is incorrect, which we know cannot happen:

21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

The Dome of the Rock mosque will not be going anywhere, and the area will be trodden by Gentiles until the “End of the World”. If the Israelis ever tried to touch the Dome, it would be instant WW III over there. There have been smaller wars started in the area simple over rumors of the Israelis digging around underneath the Dome of the Rock. The Israelis have plans to do a lot of things, but I would not hold my breath on that one, its been planed for decades and hasn't happened yet.

Originally posted by mamabeth
The two witnesses,mentioned in revelation,are seen through out the
entire world.This could only be done via a satellite link,technology they
did not have in 70ad.

SO you mean that the Old and New Testament of the Bible was not preached throughout the world before the invention of TV and Satellites? Man, there are going to be some seriously upset missionaries out there who died trying to teach it to other unbelievers.

The Two Witnesses are the Old and New Testament, they wore sackcloth as they were taught in secret back during the Inquisition. They were killed when the Roman Catholic Church considered it a death penalty heresy to own a copy of the Bible. They laid dead until Martin Luther produced the first Public version of the Bible during the Reformation.

The suppression of the Scriptures under the dominion of Rome, the terrible results of that suppression, and the final exaltation of the word of God, are vividly portrayed by the prophetic pencil. To John, the exile on lonely Patmos, was given a view of the 1260 years during which the papal power was permitted to trample upon God's word and oppress His people. Said the angel of the Lord: "The holy city [the true Church] shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." Revelation 11:2, 3. The periods here mentioned are the same, alike representing the time in which God's faithful witnesses remained in a state of obscurity.

The two witnesses represent the Old and New Testament Scriptures. Both are important testimonies to the origin and perpetuity of the law of God. Both are witnesses also to the plan of salvation. The types, sacrifices, and prophecies of the Old Testament point forward to a Savior to come. The Gospels and Epistles of the New Testament tell of a Savior who has come in the exact manner foretold by type and prophecy.

The papal power sought to hide from the people the word of truth, and set before them false witnesses to contradict its testimony. When the Bible was proscribed by religious and secular authority; when its testimony was perverted, and every effort made that men and demons could invent to turn the minds of the people from it; when those who dared proclaim its sacred truths were hunted, betrayed, tortured, buried in dungeon cells, martyred for their faith, or compelled to flee to mountain fastnesses and to dens and caves of the earth, - then indeed did the faithful witnesses prophesy in sackcloth.

Originally posted by mamabeth
I really shouldn't be surprised by the posts I am reading here.Sheep
being led to the slaughter through ignorance,denial and misdirected
theology.

Funny, that is exactly how I feel about people who believe in Futurism. They are products of the “Great Deception”.

Read like 4 sentences and I know you are on the wrong track. First of all the only truth in scripture is the holy Bible, and if you don't trust it, then look at the original Hebrew. The four Beasts in Daniel refer to the four World Kingdoms starting with Babylon. This is basically reiterating his previous dream of Nebuchadnezzar.

Chapter 2:24, this dream is explained, the different body parts represent different kingdoms of the world. Head-Babylon (609-539 BC); Chest and Arms-Medo-Persia (539-331 BC); Belly and thighs-Greece (331-168 BC); Legs-Rome (168 BC - 476 AD) (First phase) and then you have the feet which will be the revived Roman Empire aka European Union. The 10 toes represent that this new revived empire will be divided among 10 kings or kingdoms, and is comprised partly of iron and clay because some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle.

Read Daniel 12:9 Daniel is basically being told that his writings, the book of Daniel, won't be understood until the end of days, when knowledge is greatly increased. Only recently have theologians been able to fully interpret the book of Daniel and what do you know, it just so happened in the days when the booming of technology has been far greater than all other times in history combined. You think all these things are coincidence, Bible Prophecy, the coming of the one world government, etc....this is how God planned it and if you don't think God has the power to do anything he wants, especially give humans the influence to write "the true word of Gow" then im sorry you are greatly mistaken.

If you really want to prove me wrong, watch the case for a creator by lee strobel on youtube, and the case for christ

[edit on 19-1-2010 by 100Grand]

Originally posted by 100Grand
Read like 4 sentences and I know you are on the wrong track. First of all the only truth in scripture is the holy Bible, and if you don't trust it, then look at the original Hebrew.

Sorry, who or what post are you referring to?

reply to post by defcon5


yours lol

Just recently has the EU found a permanent president, and not only that, divided into 10 regions.
1. America, Canada and Mexico
2. South America
3. Australia and New Zealand
4. Western Europe
5. Eastern Europe
6. Japan
7. South Asia
8. Central Asia
9. North Africa and Middle East
10. Remainder of Africa

Ah, ok then...

Originally posted by 100Grand
Read like 4 sentences and I know you are on the wrong track. First of all the only truth in scripture is the holy Bible, and if you don't trust it, then look at the original Hebrew.

Other then quotes about verifiable historical events, where did I pull quotes from anything that is not in the Bible? I do use aspects of pseudopigraphal works in some threads, but I have not done so in here. Everything I have posted is either straight from the Bible, or from History.

Originally posted by 100Grand
The four Beasts in Daniel refer to the four World Kingdoms starting with Babylon. This is basically reiterating his previous dream of Nebuchadnezzar.

The recurrent theme in Daniel is that there are four World Empires, Babylon, Media/Persia, Greece, and Rome. Out of the fourth Beast comes a “Little Horn” which is the Pontifex Maximus. Revelations starts out with the Fourth Beast of Daniel (Rome), then introduces the final world empire (most likely the USA). The aspects of Romes intermingling with a religion are brought up in Revelations as the Harlot with a cup riding the Beast.

Originally posted by 100Grand
feet which will be the revived Roman Empire aka European Union. The 10 toes represent that this new revived empire will be divided among 10 kings or kingdoms, and is comprised partly of iron and clay because some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle.

The two legs can be the main subdivisions of the Roman Empire into the Eastern and Western Empires, and the ten toes are the ten kingdoms of the Rome:

1.Alemanni - Germany.
2.Visigoths - Spain.
3.Franks - France.
4.Anglo-Saxons - England.
5.Burgundians - Switzerland.
6.Ostrogoths - Exterminated.
7.Suevi - Portugal.
8.Lombards - Italy.
9.Vandals - Exterminated.
10.Heruli - Exterminated.

Originally posted by 100Grand
Read Daniel 12:9 Daniel is basically being told that his writings, the book of Daniel, won't be understood until the end of days, when knowledge is greatly increased. Only recently have theologians been able to fully interpret the book of Daniel and what do you know, it just so happened in the days when the booming of technology has been far greater than all other times in history combined.

Wrong...
Folks on here are quoting Futurism which has been around since the 1500, the same with both Historicism and Preterism. All the stuff, from whichever school you are professing is nothing more then relating back to one of these schools. If you are referring to the re-establishment of Israel, that is nothing more then self fulfilling prophecy. Look at the involvement of the Vatican during and after WWII.

Originally posted by 100Grand
You think all these things are coincidence, Bible Prophecy, the coming of the one world government, etc....this is how God planned it and if you don't think God has the power to do anything he wants, especially give humans the influence to write "the true word of Gow" then im sorry you are greatly mistaken.

Where am I saying these things that you are quoting me as saying?
I do not see that written anywhere. I agree that we are in the end times, but we have been for centuries.

Originally posted by 100Grand
If you really want to prove me wrong, watch the case for a creator by lee strobel on youtube, and the case for christ.

Sorry I research out of books and history, not from Youtube videos.

reply to post by defcon5


The antichrist will sign a covenant with Israel.He will break the covenant
three and a half years later.He will place an idol in the third temple and
force people to worship the image.This desecrates God's temple in an
act of defiance against God and His chosen people.
I hope this link will help.

www.watchmanbiblestudy.com...

reply to post by defcon5


We do not agree on all of the translations of prophecy but I do agree with you that regardless we are in the final age. I have enjoyed reading the information you have posted. I love to learn different views, it opens my mind and I have found the information usefull. Thanks buddy, good work.

reply to post by defcon5


I will repeat,your doctrine is wrong.My stepson studied coine greek and
hebrew in Bible college.I don't know which scriptures you read, I read
the King James version and the Torah.