King Jesus

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by ralphellis2

 

Sorry, you are all reading this parable wrongly. This is what the venerable theologians say of it.

as the author of the passage is unknown and obviously long dead it is complete arrogance to make any claim to being the final word on its' meaning. Only the original author would know and as he/she is not around then no one interpretation is more valid than another.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But if we applied your theory, we would know nothing from history. We would not even know what Shakespeare was talking about.


Invariably there is some guesswork involved, especially if a text has been deliberately manipulated to cover a truth. But you can often apply Occam's razor and some rational thinking to discover the real truth.

But you will never see the real truth if you are blinded by a preconceived dogma, which is why the NT story has been concealed so successfully for so long (especially if you have the Catholic Inquisition at your disposal).


There are none so blind as those who WILL NOT SEE, as they say.


But now we don't have to be blind. We don't need to be swayed by political/theological dogma. We can open our eyes, research, speculate, debate, and come to our own conclusions.

These are my conclusions. They will not satisfy everyone, but they make a great deal more sense than the established dogma about a god having some illicit rumpy-pumpy with a carpenter's wife in some god-forsaken rat-hole in the backwaters of Judaea. Does god have no morality, decency, or, well, standards?? If god were a modern politician, he would be Clinton with a cigar, having fun with young interns. Where is the morality in that story??


A pox on the established dogma.



.

reply to post by seethelight


On-e to-o man-y hyph-ens i-n thi-s pos-t

I agree.

If I can accustom another to focus on the Root of the word's in question, one could know where it comes from.

Webster spun quite a deceitful web of language.
I believe telepathy is possible if practiced.
The trick is convincing oneself they have it.

One has been taught to find a proof for every Truth they See.
A Truth can never be recorded on paper.
It has too many dimensions or angles to capture in print.
"By Way of Deception, though shoult make war".

Who said it and for what purpose?
It doesn't work.
The phrase above is not of Divinity.

You inherently know this.
May we Act on that we Know.

I know I like the Female Form.
I try to Act on this.
It works both ways.
Feels G-ood.

last D-ass-h

reply to post by ralphellis2


What's your angle here? Are you a Christian? Or are you an atheist?

You seem confused in your arguments, and don't seem to know where to stand. As for your points about the lives of historical characters being the same as biblical characters - sorry - that doesn't wash - it's a commonly known fact that unless historical references (of which the bible is not one) provide directly linked fact-confluence then it just cannot be relied on.

Unless you're saying you have 'faith' that the coincidence suggests reality?

Parallex.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by ralphellis2

 

A certain nobleman - The Lord Jesus, who was shortly to be crucified by the Jews.

Why on earth do you perpetuate a lie ? Jews didn't crucify anyone, Romans did the crucifying

Hey, this is Adam Clarke speaking, not me. I'm just saying that all the venerable theologians say that Lu 19:27 is about Jesus himself.

Thus Jesus was a real warrior rebel, and so the link between King Jesus and King Arthur is entirely possible. (The latter mythical hero being created to prevent the Inquisition arresting you for heresy.)



.

By the way, I am speaking at the ARC conference in Bath.

www.arcconvention.org...


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[edit on 3-1-2010 by ralphellis2]

reply to post by ralphellis2


Heresy unto What 'Authority'?

TextJames G. March on the relation between madness, heresy, and genius: "... we sometimes find that such heresies have been the foundation for bold and necessary change, but heresy is usually just new ideas that are foolish or dangerous and appropriately rejected or ignored. So while it may be true that great geniuses are usually heretics, heretics are rarely great geniuses."

Having a 'Norm' moment.

Who turned on the Light?
You Did.
Light is Eternal and in All things.

This is Truth and Reasonable though can't be 'understood' in print. It is Seen with one's Intellect.....a Divine trait in humanity. Most have been conditioned to be blind of themself and Reality as it Is.

I'll hide my soapbox for now.

Originally posted by Parallex
reply to post by ralphellis2

 

What's your angle here? Are you a Christian? Or are you an atheist?

You seem confused in your arguments, and don't seem to know where to stand. As for your points about the lives of historical characters being the same as biblical characters - sorry - that doesn't wash - it's a commonly known fact that unless historical references (of which the bible is not one) provide directly linked fact-confluence then it just cannot be relied on.

Unless you're saying you have 'faith' that the coincidence suggests reality?

Parallex.

Hmmm. How about Gnostic. Or an Atheist who believes in the gods.


Where am I confused?


And yes it does wash. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations, is real history. However, this is real history with a political/religious agenda, and so it has been deliberately altered to cover the real truth - just like the Talmud. If you want to see real deliberate obfuscation of history, read the Talmud.

Thus, if we are to make comparisons with real history, we need a deal of interpretation of the biblical story. There have been a few seismic shifts in the story that need to be understood before you go anywhere with the Bible.

Firstly, the Israelites have been divorced from Egypt. When in fact they were actually strongly related to the Hyksos Egyptians and used to worship the entire Egyptian pantheon of gods. See Kings and Chronicles, for instance.

Secondly, astrology has been deleted from the Bible. But you can only understand Israelite theology in terms of the precessional zodiac. This is why all the early synagogues in Judaea have a zodiac on the floor - despite the protestations of the rabbis. This is why Jesus was born as a Lamb of God and became a Fisher of Men - precessional Aries turned into Pisces in AD 10. This is why the symbol of Christianity is the fish.

Thirdly, the true status of the characters has always been underplayed - presumably to gain a sympathy vote or persecution vote. Thus all of the patriarch and all of the NT heros were actually royal. This is why the Talmud says that Mary Magdalene was the richest person in Judaea.


Understand all of these points, and you can begin to spot the real history in the Bible.


.

reply to post by ralphellis2

Hyksos Egyptians and used to worship the entire Egyptian pantheon of gods. See Kings and Chronicles, for instance.

This was pre-papyrus.
Egytpians spoke in the 'glyph'.
I prefer Forms to words.

One can Get Lasered glyphs in Stone.
There were no Lasers thousands of years ago.
This should go against Reason alone and provide a foundation A-new.
No?
Yes.







No?

Edit:::::Who was 'their'? in the syn_taxxed above?
What would One make of this?
en.wikipedia.org...(information)

The River knows.
Most can't see their bridge.
I push.
Don't shove.

A Bee is your Master in a strange way though you hold the keys to it's destruction.
Interesting point.
Some may need a Light.

The Bic variety.....the rest is a Given.
Moderation in all things Right?
You know.
You know.
You know.

Just Bee
The Bee should put the pharmaceutical business out O bud i ness.
It's Not of 'this' world.
Water is unto life as a Bee is unto a flora and fauna.

We observe, we know.
We feel what we can confirm.
Goosebumps, bolt of E+
Proof is grounded in Reason alone.

Hence, Jury be Peerage.
They have the tools to find Justice for a society.

Justice Keeps One in check 'From' themself.
As Horace once said "I teach that all Men are Mad".
Their mad cause their sad.
Sad cause their mad.
They seldom realize when 'they've' been had.

You know.
Change 'You' can believe in.
Makes sense to me.

If any of the above makes no sense to the reader.....perhaps it's not meant to.

I should sleep; but I won't for now.....till it's time.
"As Unto You"
~Salute~

Seteh or Horace?
Your Choice.
Always has been.
You Choose at every waking moment.

Ringalingaling.....'hello'? Raaaaaaaaaaaa
You should be able to hear it, not 'envision' it.
Why try. How many times do cultures choose to put their name on the nameless? Seems obliously futile though that's just me?

Tossing soap box.....
watchout!
I'aim.

A spear of invisibility draws no blood.
Temporal flesh is to cataclysmic/cosmic dust.
The Soul is to Eternity as one's Actions are unto Infiniti.

Everything matters not just because it is made up of it.
Energy makes it 'matter' in the first place.
This 'seems' Reasonable.

As a single sperm was unto Creation, a single form/"Blue"print is unto it's Being. A Blue print implies a system of unwritten human natural law.
It's the only solution.

An International Bill of Natural Rights would be a fine start for one the Acronym Institutions you know? to well.



[edit on 3-1-2010 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by ralphellis2
reply to post by ralphellis2

Hmmm. How about Gnostic. Or an Atheist who believes in the gods.

You do know what an atheist is right? As in a 'non-believer'? You cannot be an atheist and believe in any form of 'godly' beings. It's a mutual exclusivity. You're either a theist, or an atheist.

Where am I confused?

See above.

And yes it does wash. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelations, is real history. However, this is real history with a political/religious agenda, and so it has been deliberately altered to cover the real truth - just like the Talmud. If you want to see real deliberate obfuscation of history, read the Talmud.

Agreed. However, the quality of the historian rests in their ability to seperate fact from fiction, and to make sure that the obvious agendas don't cloud their judgement. The fact that you are a 'theist' sounds alarm bells for me in looking at your assessment.

Thus, if we are to make comparisons with real history, we need a deal of interpretation of the biblical story. There have been a few seismic shifts in the story that need to be understood before you go anywhere with the Bible.

Again, agreed. My concerns about your said interpretation remain.

Firstly, the Israelites have been divorced from Egypt. When in fact they were actually strongly related to the Hyksos Egyptians and used to worship the entire Egyptian pantheon of gods. See Kings and Chronicles, for instance.

Agreed - the modern image of Israelites being historically from Palestine & modern day Israel is a farce. How people fail to see the origins of Judaism and Christianity from the Gnostic (Sun) Sect of Egyptian polytheism I don't know!

Secondly, astrology has been deleted from the Bible. But you can only understand Israelite theology in terms of the precessional zodiac. This is why all the early synagogues in Judaea have a zodiac on the floor - despite the protestations of the rabbis. This is why Jesus was born as a Lamb of God and became a Fisher of Men - precessional Aries turned into Pisces in AD 10. This is why the symbol of Christianity is the fish.

Agreed (mostly). I don't believe that astrology has been deleted from the bible - there are allegories involving the zodiac precession, as well as the fact that the Crucific is a simplification of the pagan zodiac symbol. Then you have the astrological orientations of most places of worship through most religions...

Not to mention the "Three Kings" Christian issue, resurrection of the SUN etc etc.

Thirdly, the true status of the characters has always been underplayed - presumably to gain a sympathy vote or persecution vote. Thus all of the patriarch and all of the NT heros were actually royal. This is why the Talmud says that Mary Magdalene was the richest person in Judaea.

Interesting hypothesis. I do find it amusing however that it ALWAYS comes down to Mary Magdalene. Which biblical version do you feel the royal prerogative appeared in? Bear in mind this element could have been injected as a 'boon' for the royalist movement throughout Christendom... (stopping the filthy republicans & proletariat etc)

Understand all of these points, and you can begin to spot the real history in the Bible.

Agreed - but I am still concerned by your misunderstandings about 'theism' in general.

May I take this opportunity to welcome you - as a true scholar - to ATS. It's nice to see someone on here with REAL knowledge about the bible, rather than just another fundamentalist nut-job Christian.

Parallex.

[edit on 3-1-2010 by Parallex]

"As I said, Jesus was an armed rebel who attempted to storm Jerusalem with a force of 30,000 armed men (in the late AD 60s). "

I grew up in the methodist church and always wondered why there was SO much emphasis on Jesus being the King. The King of All Kings mind you.
This theory is rather intriguing , OP.
I'm no longer a christian ; and happily so. Having spent so much time in the church growing up I know a lot about the bible and the quotes coming to my memory now seem to connect with what you are proposing.

reply to post by Ausar


Does White "Light" Jesus make more sense.
If Truth is Formless, so is it's color.
This makes Sense.
It Is what it Is.

Originally posted by Parallex
Originally posted by ralphellis2
reply to post by ralphellis2

 

Hmmm. How about Gnostic. Or an Atheist who believes in the gods.

You do know what an atheist is right? As in a 'non-believer'? You cannot be an atheist and believe in any form of 'godly' beings.

Oh yes you can. And unless you do, you will never understand human history.


.

Originally posted by Parallex

Interesting hypothesis. I do find it amusing however that it ALWAYS comes down to Mary Magdalene. Which biblical version do you feel the royal prerogative appeared in? Bear in mind this element could have been injected as a 'boon' for the royalist movement throughout Christendom... (stopping the filthy republicans & proletariat etc)

She is always important because she is essential for the bloodline theory, and so the descendants of Jesus have always emphasised her role. The interesting thing, is that she was Jesus' sister-wife - an essential union for a prince and princess descended from the Ptolemaic pharaohs.

Originally posted by Parallex

Understand all of these points, and you can begin to spot the real history in the Bible.

Agreed - but I am still concerned by your misunderstandings about 'theism' in general.

Any theism occurred many thousands of years ago, and played no real part in the biblical story. However, the characters themselves were maintaining and perpetuating that very ancient heritage, and this is what drove their many exploits. The maintenance of the precessional zodiac being a prime example.



.

Originally posted by ralphellis2

Originally posted by Parallex
Originally posted by ralphellis2
reply to post by ralphellis2

 

Hmmm. How about Gnostic. Or an Atheist who believes in the gods.

You do know what an atheist is right? As in a 'non-believer'? You cannot be an atheist and believe in any form of 'godly' beings.

Oh yes you can. And unless you do, you will never understand human history.


.

Sorry Ralph, you're just plain wrong there.

I understand human history just fine without believing in some clapped out idiot-box idea of 'gods'. I understand my ancestors might have believed, but that's because they didn't have the knowledge that I do.

Don't patronise me by thinking that just because I don't believe in religion, that I don't realise its' importance to history.

Parallex.

Why would One worship a material object whether it be of flesh or of dust?

Infinite, Intellect, Creativity as well as time? itself is Formless.

It is impossible for One to count to Infinite.

As a child, this perplexed me with Endless wonder.

I believe a unit of Energy could be expressed as a numerical unit though Reality cannot be expressed in the first or second dimension alone. The 5 senses are quite temporal and limited in scope as a reliable or even realistic scale of The Cosmos. 5 has always been my favorite number for some? Reason. The sixth and seventh senses are of Divinity and earned, not given. Perhaps most near death experiences are warnings from your inner Being (Soul). You have experienced many miracles whether you choose to acknowledge them or not. Choice>Freewill>Action>Reaction>Creation>as a ripple on the Current of Space.....Is As to Was.....and VV.
Since this seems 'Reasonable' so would the concept of infiniti in/of Creation itself.

The same Rule applies to positive/negative, yin/yang, karma, gravity, Symbiosm in Nature as the Created is unto it's Creator though with the latter having the edge of Cataclysmic Serendipity. Kisby's frisbee?

Interesting fellow for the 'times'.
K Is Bee has a a certain Ring to it.
May one's soapbox be 'rent' Free.

Pass.....
no Gas.

Let's stick to Solids for now; may now prove it's syntaxic inverse.
Language goes along way towards Understanding.
Unfortunately, when spoken, it is often as a hook unto a fish in The Sea.
The fish either mistook the hook or knew not of it's purpose.

Same idea as the Crook and Flailed.....
To Crook a Crook is Natural whether self-imposed or subject to the scales of Justice. 90 degrees 'Mean'.....Means more than it's Golden Prefix.

To seek to understand Another is to seek to understand the Self.
The same Rules apply, always have as in your Laws of the Universe itself.





[edit on 3-1-2010 by Perseus Apex]

reply to post by Perseus Apex


Seriously Perseus, it's people who post up MENTAL stuff like you that give ATS a skewed image. Whatever drug you're on, I'd still go and see the doctor.

Parallex.

Here's something from the Old Testament, just for fun, to demonstrate the Egyptian heritage of the Israelites.

Jonah is a symbol of the Sun-god Ra.

Jonah means 'dove', and this was used as an alternate symbol for the flying Sun-disk of Ra (when the latter was 'banned'). Jonah when into the sea for three days because that is exactly what Ra did, as the Sun-disk dipped below the horizon and descended into the Underworld. There, Ra faced many foes, including the great serpent of the underworld (the sea-serpent, or whale), before being spat out on the eastern horizon at the new dawn.

The Jonah story comes directly from Egyptian theology.

reply to post by Parallex


Perhaps you're not Parallel?
How would you know?

Einstein once spoke, "For those of you who set yourself up as a judge in the field of Truth or Knowledge are shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods."

I'm always listening to what You have to offer whether you have a Straight or a Flush of Consciousness.

May we not burn our thread brUtha.
I'm counting on You too.

reply to post by ralphellis2

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if we applied your theory, we would know nothing from history. We would not even know what Shakespeare was talking about.

Yet another character that turns out not quite as some would have us believe. By the way I don't have a theory but I do have the good fortune of being able question without prejudice and change my mind when the need arises.