ATTENTION Patriots / Birthers / Teabaggers / Whomever - If you did get your Revolution, Then What?

I have read countless calls to action here at ATS where Patriots , Birthers, TeaBaggers, and other are calling for an armed insurrection.

Here is your chance to put forth some of those great ideas you have for what this country really needs, and how you would go about accomplishing this.

Let's hear some real policy changes you would make, who would run the country and how exactly would our new Nation go about selling this to our allies.

Please, if you will, try to be serious.

Don't post jokes, I really want to hear a rational plan from these groups. Who knows, I may become one of you.

The floor is yours.

[edit on 1-1-2010 by ziggystrange]

See this is the thing that scares me most about "Revolution". There is no plan for afterwards. When there isn't a very thorough plan for after a "Revolution" then all the people are left unprotected from any force that wishes to invade. Just look at Afghanastan, Iraq, etc. Even if there are plans, if they aren't coordinated, then they will be conflicting and will result in chaos or worse.



[edit on 1/1/2010 by Iamonlyhuman]

While I could be described as a typical member of the Patriot movement, I do not openly call for an armed insurrection. As you know, it is a crime to openly call for the overthrow of the US government.

However, if such an insurrection did take place, the ensuing provisional revolutionary government could make several reforms that would revitalize our ailing nation. First, we could do away with the unconstitutional income tax. Second, we could repeal the 17th Amendment. Third, we could return to isolationism and cut off all foreign aid.

There would be several other reforms following these, but I think these three are crucial.

Originally posted by Majestic Twelve
While I could be described as a typical member of the Patriot movement, I do not openly call for an armed insurrection. As you know, it is a crime to openly call for the overthrow of the US government.

However, if such an insurrection did take place, the ensuing provisional revolutionary government could make several reforms that would revitalize our ailing nation. First, we could do away with the unconstitutional income tax. Second, we could repeal the 17th Amendment. Third, we could return to isolationism and cut off all foreign aid.

There would be several other reforms following these, but I think these three are crucial.

And how exactly would you do that? Would you institute martial law in order to make these changes quickly and then later revoke martial law or would you go through the processes we have in place now? Who would Congress be comprised of? Would they be representatives of the people? How would they be elected? Would they be elected or would they be appointed?

See what I mean? I could go on and on...

Originally posted by Majestic Twelve
While I could be described as a typical member of the Patriot movement, I do not openly call for an armed insurrection. As you know, it is a crime to openly call for the overthrow of the US government.

However, if such an insurrection did take place, the ensuing provisional revolutionary government could make several reforms that would revitalize our ailing nation. First, we could do away with the unconstitutional income tax. Second, we could repeal the 17th Amendment. Third, we could return to isolationism and cut off all foreign aid.

There would be several other reforms following these, but I think these three are crucial.

As an addendum: It is almost guaranteed to throw out the constitution and rewrite it to something akin to Sharia, only Christian law. Things like separation of C&S, "Respecting no laws in regards to religion"... That would all go out.

Social advances would be rolled back, ie: Gays would be subject to full on oppression etc. etc. Probably roll back womens rights as well.

Simply because an individual might not agree, one has to look at the leaders agendas and ties.

reply to post by ziggystrange


What I'd like to know is when this "armed revolution" will take place. As usual I see the same empty threats and same hollow predictions, but what I dont see is action. How would yall have me believe this is more than an armed chair revolution? Its been years now of this talk. Wheres the revolution??

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Thanks for the post SG
That's one of the things I'm curious about, are people serious, or are they just using up bandwidth?

I'm not convinced this is the way to go, but I want to hear the rationale, and the plan.

Right now I'm thinking most of it is not thought through, that's why I posted this thread.

I want to hear out everybody and see just how much or how little agreement there is on this.

Ziggy

reply to post by Majestic Twelve


So, uh, why do we want to be an isolate island floating out there in the vast sea of the world?

Why cling to constructs that have given way to what we have now?

Wouldn't a brighter future involve a global movement, casting off their shackles?

Well, personally, I believe our country needs a complete and drastic overhaul. Right now I feel we're living in a country that can be symbolized as a pyramid, like what you see on our dollar, made out of levels (bottom-poverty, mid-content middle class, top-elite/wealthy) with varying amounts of power, not equal as our country should be striving for. I'm in no way saying we should give into and spread equality to those who don't work for it or who try to take advantage of the system though. But with how it is now, the government can take advantage of those with less power and those who are rich enough or 'elite' enough can abuse their power which leads to corruption.

Now you might think that just changing something like our 'level system' won't make any difference, we'll still have people corrupting something to make it easier to them while screwing over others, I do believe it might lessen the extent of it if we were to replace this 'pyramid' with a symbol more of a tree. A base government which would be the 'trunk' or base of our country, with a drastic lessening of their powers. The branches which would be individual states, given the power to govern how the population of those states wishes, with voting and what not. And the leaves would symbolize the people, flourishing in their respective states. You might even believe that this sounds like what we have now, but I feel that in reality, the government can just get in the way whenever it wants.

Let the states keep their own power without always having the government jump in with whatever they feel like enforcing, such as drug laws, even when the state might allow it (such as with medical marijuana and the stores that provide it in California.) With how much the government interfers with states and their business, it can cut off many ideas that could possibly help our country prosper and grow. This would also allow the states to become more diverse and possibly give a better choice for people to find where they might feel most comfortable and able to prosper the most. When you take control of the states as a whole, you're going to make a majority of the population unhappy with how things are run since not everyone will have the same values, beliefs, etc. and you're pretty much forcing them to follow YOUR (governments) rules and beliefs.

Now the government, needs to have a lot of the power they have now taken away. As it is, the government can say and do whatever it wants, no matter how it makes the population feels. You can say we have the freedom to make choices but who, who actually knows the reality of things, believes that? Take away the power to always butt into state affairs, the states can determine what is best for themselves. The government should really be there to run our monetary system, military, and to be the force that holds states together, not dictate everything.

The biggest change I can think of would be our whole take on 'democracy'. Democracy, to me, is a failed system which over all the years just leads to more corruption. It holds major flaws which makes for some of the biggest problems like bribery, assassination, and people who are drunk with their own power. Set up a more simple system with a single leader, like president, and a 'counsel' which can be trusted to make right decisions based on the values of the American people as a whole. Let this leader stay in his position as long as he doesn't become some tyrant and cut out all these elections that can easily be manipulated by large sums of money and propaganda.

I know for a fact some people are going to start picking out flaws in what I post, but I'm no good at putting all my thoughts in one post because I can't bring up everything I believe at once without leaving things out. I'll try to respond to quotes if anyone wants to break this down and feels I might be wrong on several ideas or thinks I fail to realize something.

I couldn't care less what happened to the "country" meaning the federal government or what happened to any other governing body or any other individual for that matter.

I just want to be left alone on my land happily cut off from the rest of the world.

As long as I have that very simple and very easilly furnished request met you folks can do whatever the he'll you want with the rest of this land mass.

We wouldn't even need a "revolution" to accomplish this but lord knows I'm just so damn important and valuable for some mystical reason that this simple request cannot be granted and any attempt on my part to live in this vain will result in assault and imprisonment.

I write my senator and reps asking what's so special about me the world would stop spinnng if I were to be forgotten but so far no one has gotten back to me.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Majestic Twelve
However, if such an insurrection did take place, the ensuing provisional revolutionary government

and just how is this "provisional revolutionary government" elected?
By what law/right do they declare themselves the "provisional revolutionary government"?
Will women/gays/muslims be allowed in this "provisional revolutionary government"?

First, we could do away with the unconstitutional income tax.

so just where does this "provisional revolutionary government" get the money to run their government from?

Second, we could repeal the 17th Amendment.

So you want to take the power away from the people to elect their senators.... then which amendment will you repeal? The 2nd? the 15th, then 19th, 13 etc etc.

reply to post by LordTacos


Hi LT,

Thank you, that was a thorough, thoughtful, and rational response.
It's the type of thing I'm looking for in this thread.

I hope more folk take the time to do like you did.

Don't sweat the flamers, it's nothing.
I used to get angry when people flames me, now, I don't skip a beat.

The whole point is to air your thoughts ans ponder about others thoughts.
If debate is called for, then we debate.

I learn about myself and others doing this silly ATS thing.

Nice to meet you,
Ziggy

In my opinion the "tea party patriots" are rather confused. They march with eachother advocating for things that contradict the movement.

I have asked this question in the past and from what I understand the tea party movement is as follows:

It is against both the Democrats and Republicans and their overspending. However at every one of these nation wide rallies, there seems to be republican senators, republican congressman and republican governors walking hand in hand, speaking and leading these rallies. So, thats not they clearly are about.

Others claim the movement is against the rich elite, despite the fact such organisations as the tea party express and freedom works, lead by former republicans, backs strongly by corporations.

Some tea party patriots claim they are marching against Obama because of his support of the stimulus, while thanking Fox news for "opening their eyes" and praising Beck for leading them. Praising the same people that supported the debt hike during the Bush administration. And yes once again let me reference the republican politicians sponsoring, speaking and holding some of these events. So really, its confusing.

SG

Stick to the constitution

Lower taxes

stop illegal immigration

Put troops at the southern border where there is a war worse than The middle east

stop the gays from teaching school kids

no bail outs

no welfare for more than 6 months

rewrite the trade laws to favor us instead of them

We need "something" but I'm not sure it's all out revolution.

Too many people would flip out when the Wal Mart closes and their cable goes out. Plus no more pizza delivery.

Everyone seems to have complaints but no solutions. I think it will take another generation...

[edit on 1/1/2010 by kosmicjack]

Originally posted by yenko13
Stick to the constitution

Yes, and yet we have these "tea party patriots" advocating for mandatory religious celebration in public schools. We have advocating for an "official christian america" and some calling for more support of Israel. These are the tea patriots and this is what some of them want. The dont wish to uphold the constitution, they only wish to install one of their own. The constitution is just a cover.

Lower taxes

95% of your taxes was lower in April.

stop illegal immigration

Which is something we all support and something the government is working on. If you dont think they are doing an effective enough job, you rally your congressman.

Put troops at the southern border where there is a war worse than The middle east

stop the gays from teaching school kids

Which is unconstitutional. What somebody does with another adult in the privacy of their homes is none of your business and you have no right dictating anything more to them.

This is exactly what I am talking about. We are free under the constitution to follow whatever lifestyle we wish. You are obviously not for the constitution.

no welfare for more than 6 months

Welfare as in what? Somebody born with a deformity in a wheel chair, trying to make an ends on feeding his or her family. Why do they not deserve a right to be assisted by the government? Are you to generalize all welfare takers as lazy able people?


Your an exact example of the confusion the tea party patriots. Nothing to do with the constitution or our rights, and everything to do with your own unconstitutional intentions.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Hi Guy,

Thanks for the post. I have a lot of Libertarian acquaintances and a good friend "Mike".
I thought I wanted to be a Libertarian 20 years ago, then I met my Libertarian friend, I found out I was too conservative to be a Libertarian, this horrified me because I thought I was a liberal Democrat, but he thought I was a left of center Republican. Turned out I'm none of those things.

I'll ask you 2 questions I asked my friend Mike.

1. What happens to you, and how will you deal with the chaos that would follow a reduction of GOV to 5% of what it is now, and that would be a Police force. How would you protect yourself from food or shelter seekers fleeing the urban areas.

2. How much would you honestly be willing to contribute to charity, which would be optional, in lieu of taxes.

No offense intended, I personally have no problem with you personally being left alone and undisturbed on your property.

Nice to meet you
Ziggy

Then what?

Then the people get their America back, the same America the world looked up to decades ago, before crooked pork bellied politicans brokered to special interest groups.

Then the people, get their non federalist controlled land of the free back.

What would I do, if we had our revolution, you ask.

First 15% of the total Pentagon budget would be reappropriated for immeadiate corrective measures, including but not limited to:

Providing head start for all eligible US kids
Providing healthcare for al uninsured US kids
Rebuild Americas schools over 10 years
Achieve energy independance with clean technology
Feed all the worlds starving children

All with a meager 15% of the total Pentagon budget, from the FY 2004, not including the Iraq and Afghan wars was $401 Billion.

US and allies global military spending was $664 Billion, and that was the then budget.

After 9/11, US spending on anti-terrorism appropiately rose. But the budget still includes nuclear and other weapons designed to fight the Cold War. Former Admirals, Generals and Pentagon officials agree that the US can safely reduce the Pentagon budget 15%($60billion) per year.

Budget does not include Iraq and Afghan costs.
facts compiled by TrueMajority.org

Reply to post by ziggystrange

I wouldn't concern myself with such mock services as a police force. As it is they only come after you've been made a victim. Their absence would hardly change that. Besides, i'm not a rich man by any standard and should I get my wish to be left alone I would have nothing of any material value whatsoever. Should still some barbarian see fit to assault me for my rags I would do my best to defend myself and if unsuccessful so be it.

Never stepping foot off of my land nor having anything whatsoever of value answers your charity question.

I want no part of this so-called society. I want my land and my bare hands. Currently the extortion of taxation forces me to make an income which forces me to have a work-a-day job which occupies my time so that I am unable to fend for myself by labor of land and harvest. I don't want to be a wandering vagrant nor a criminal. I only want my freedom.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I have a question .. what are you going to do with the survivors of the massacre that don't agree with you ?? what if they want to express their views ?? what if they want to REVOLVE against you? what is your "Constitution loving" government going to do about them ?

If they want a revolution , before they get anything done they would have to clean the blood out of their hands and burn the bodies of millions of innocents ...

These "Patriots" want an armed revolution against an invincible enemy ..

They obviously don't have an "After plan" .. but this movement allows they to play their stupid "I want to be a soldier, i want to be a founding father " games ..

nobody cares about them .. nobody is taking them seriously (Thank God)

[edit on 1-1-2010 by Polynomial C]