Hitler Then vs Hitler Now

we all know the general climate of opinion that surrounds Adolf Hitler in our present day. but what about in the past? the past that belonged to Hitler and Churchill and their peers? the past before and during WWII?

the facts are surprising, to say the least.

here's a quote to start off:

"In fifteen years that have followed this resolve, he has succeeded in restoring Germany to the most powerful position in Europe, and not only has he restored the position of his country, but he has even, to a very great extent, reversed the results of the Great War ... whatever else may be thought about these exploits they are certainly among the most remarkable in the whole history of the world."

- Winston Churchill,
British Prime Minister

Ive been saying that very same thing for years.....but to no avail.....

If WW2 had never happened, Hitler would have been reknowned as one of the greatest leaders of all time.

Lets put aside WW2........and the attrocities the Nazi's commited (let alone the ones the Allies committed too, but thats another thread), from my understanding, after WW1, Germany brought itself from ruin to a super power within short amount of time, by making what they needed IN Germany and NOT importing what they needed.

Some foreign investment helped Germany to do this, but it enabled the money to stay and grow in Germany.

Instead of money going abroad.

Tell me this.....why is it that we cannot run society/economics the same way today if it worked so well for Germany prior to WW2?

These days industry is shutting down and moving ofshore to India and China rather than staying in the western nation and keeping the money in the country.

We are all indoctrinated to beleive that Capitalism is the only way and the right way....well it is proven that a better way was achieved, so why cant we use some of those methods today?

Could surely help the USA get out of its financial mess.

Perhaps not strangely, Hitler also had a very high opinion of the British and the Catholic Church. He perceived the British as highly-evolved Aryans, descendants of the Vikings, and Hitler even stopped short of wiping out the entire British army at Dunkirk because he respected the English so much.

It's true. Hitler's perplexed generals were ordered to halt when they could have massacred the Brits at Dunkirk — Hitler explained to his generals that the English were admirable in their conquering of the world, just as the Catholic Church had conquered the known world. Hitler even admitted that, under other circumstances, he would gladly lend the English military assistance anywhere in the world.

In his book Mein Kampf, Hitler made it known that he wanted the Brits as allies, just as he wanted the Italians.

— Doc Velocity






[edit on 1/1/2010 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
Tell me this.....why is it that we cannot run society/economics the same way today if it worked so well for Germany prior to WW2?

Because Hitler's approach included an intense focus on nationalism and pride in being a specific nationality (not to mention a specific race).

This was a driving force behind the Third Reich — some would say it was also a great hinderance, as it prevented many capable Germans from rapidly ascending the hierarchy and putting their skills to their best use.

But, even back in the 1930s, I believe that globalization initiatives were taking shape — FDR was busy crafting American dependence on a socialist welfare system, as well as working with the League of Nations (predecessor of Roosevelt's United Nations) to destroy nationalism and national sovereignty around the world.

From a Global Union standpoint, Germany's intense nationalism was a bad model for the world to follow. I think that's the primary reason the Allies teamed up to wipe out the Third Reich — because it wasn't compatible with plans for a Global Union.

Pardon to those who think WWII was all about The Holocaust. It wasn't. Tens of millions more people were murdered in Russia than the 6 million Jews in Nazi-occupied Europe. We don't fall to our knees lamenting the loss of those dirty Russians, but we fall all over ourselves about 6 million Jews in Europe.

Our popularization of The Holocaust was a moral justification for the war. The reason for the war was quite different.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia


thank you for your open=mindedness! this is what i was hoping for - a dispassionate discussion of things that never get mentioned.

indeed, Hitler's success in bringing Germany back to life after WWI was, and remains, unprecedented. his methods were sound and logical, and they worked. he won the hearts of the german people by filling their stomachs and giving them a new sense of self-worth, whether they were laborers or professionals. in Hitler's view, all had an equally vital role in a prosperous society.

some more words of the times:

General Leon Degrelle:

During the three years before Hitler came to power, total earnings had fallen by more than half, from 23 billion marks to 11 billion. The average per capita income had dropped from 1,187 marks in 1929 to 627 marks, a scarcely tolerable level, in 1932. By January 1933, when Hitler took office, 90 percent of the German people were destitute.

Hjalmar Schacht, Hitler's Finance Minister:

It was necessary to discover a method that would avoid inflating the investment holdings of the Reichsbank immoderately and consequently increasing the circulation of money excessively.

Adolf Hitler. First Reichstag Speech:

The nation does not live for the sake of the economic system, and the economic system does not exist for the sake of capital. On the contrary, capital is the servant of the economic system and the economic system is the servant of the people.

Adolf Hitler - 1924:

They must learn to respect each other and be respected again – the intellectual must respect the manual labourer and vice versa.
Neither can exist without the other

-----------------

When Adolf took office in 1933, Germany was the European country with the bleakest future; possibly no country in the world had worse prospects. Germany was technically bankrupt with no likelihood of rehabilitation. The reasons for this were many and varied:

Massive unemployment
Industrial stagnation
Crippling strike actions by unions
Private investment had fallen to one sixth
Collapse in agricultural prices
Escalating numbers of bankrupt companies
Total earnings had fallen by half
90% of the German people were in dire straits
The Versailles treaty confiscated the richest mineral land and imposed escalating debt repayments that would not be lifted for fifty years.
Communists, funded by the Soviet Union, were taking advantage of the political turmoil with frequent strike action and violent abortive coups.

then...five years later:

Five years of National Socialist industrial and economic activity show that:

Paper manufacture has increased by 50%
The manufacture of diesel oil has increased by 66%
The production of coal has increased by 68%
The production of oil fuel has increased by 80%
The production of mineral oil has increased by 90%
The production of artificial silk has increased by 100%
The production of Kerosene has increased by 110%
The production of steel has increased by 167%
The production of lubricating oil has increased by 190%

(from Adolf the Great)

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
If WW2 had never happened, Hitler would have been reknowned as one of the greatest leaders of all time.

"If WW2 had -been won by the Nazis-, Hitler would have been renowned as one of the greatest leaders of all time.*"

To the victor goes the spoils and also the right to write his-story.

reply to post by Doc Velocity

Hitler's perplexed generals were ordered to halt when they could have massacred the Brits at Dunkirk

en.wikipedia.org...

the Luftwaffe dropped bombs and leaflets on the Allied armies. The leaflets showed a map of the situation. They read, in English and French: "British soldiers! Look at the map: it gives your true situation! Your troops are entirely surrounded — stop fighting! Put down your arms!"[21] The Allied soldiers mostly used these as toilet paper.[22] To the land- and air-minded Nazis, the sea was an impassable barrier,[23] so they really did think the Allies were surrounded; but the British saw the sea as a route to safety, and they were ultimately proved correct.

As well as the Luftwaffe's bombs, German artillery also fired high explosive shells into Dunkirk. By this time, the town contained the bodies of over a thousand civilian casualties.[9]

Why would the Nazi's send troops in to the beaches to massace them when they could pick them off using artillery and planes without high german casualties?

en.wikipedia.org...

Initial plans called for the recovery of 45,000 men from the British Expeditionary Force within two days, at which time it was expected that German troops would be able to block further evacuation. Only 25,001 men escaped during this period, including 7,001 on the first day.[8] Ten additional destroyers joined the rescue effort on 26 May and attempted rescue operations in the early morning, but were unable to closely approach the beaches, although several thousand were rescued. However, the pace of evacuation from the shrinking Dunkirk pocket steadily increased.

On 29 May, 47,000 British troops were rescued[9] in spite of the first heavy air attack by the Luftwaffe in the evening. The next day, an additional 54,000 men[10] were embarked, including the first French soldiers.[11] 68,000 men and the commander of the BEF, Lord Gort, evacuated on 31 May.[12] A further 64,000 Allied soldiers departed on 1 June,[13] before the increasing air attacks prevented further daylight evacuation.[8] The British rearguard left the night of 2 June, along with 60,000 French soldiers.[13] An additional 26,000 French troops were retrieved the following night before the operation finally ended.[8]

Two French divisions remained behind to protect the evacuation. Though they halted the German advance, they were soon captured. The remainder of the rearguard, largely French, surrendered on 3 June 1940. The next day, the BBC reported, "Major-General Harold Alexander [the commander of the rearguard] inspected the shores of Dunkirk from a motorboat this morning to make sure no-one was left behind before boarding the last ship back to Britain."

The French held them off before surrendering.

Oh for Christs sake.
You guys want a police state. Great.
There is the gaining power by murder.
Book burning.
Curtailing of personal freedom, The SS and brown shirts.
Total control of media by the government.
Did I mention murder and a police state.
The harrasment of intellectuals and perversion of medicine and science.
The deiafication of the military.
And much, much more.
If you clowns are dying to hear the sound of jackboots at your door, you are......nuts.

The foreign money that funded Germany's reconstruction would of come from Prescott Bush. It is not a state secret anymore just one that nobody likes to talk about. With out him Hitler would not of risen to power. The Bush family has alot of sick secrets in its closet and despite the flakey flack I will get for saying it the fact is just as true as the 10 million dead russians!

Facts are facts.

Originally posted by OldDragger
Oh for Christs sake.
You guys want a police state. Great.
There is the gaining power by murder.
Book burning.
Curtailing of personal freedom, The SS and brown shirts.
Total control of media by the government.
Did I mention murder and a police state.
The harrasment of intellectuals and perversion of medicine and science.
The deiafication of the military.
And much, much more.
If you clowns are dying to hear the sound of jackboots at your door, you are......nuts.

Old dragger my buddy, I did not see a whole lot in your description above that is different from modern day USA. I wish I could say the USA is not censoring internet stuff but just try to watch some Mexican or Canadian streaming tv. Police state is here. Your assessment matches the the current state of the USA. Although, I might of added a bit about the great depression myself.

reply to post by Flakey


Old dragger my buddy, I did not see a whole lot in your description above that is different from modern day USA.

You obviously know nothing about NAZI Germany. Nothing at all.
Words fail me at the ignorance expressed here. Try educating yourselves.

Originally posted by OldDragger
Oh for Christs sake.
You guys want a police state. Great.
(...)
If you clowns are dying to hear the sound of jackboots at your door, you are......nuts.

NO

we are simply having a discussion
nothing more
nothing less

no one said one thing about *wanting* anything...other than a rational, dispassionate discussion

no room for hysterics here, friend

Originally posted by JPhish
To the victor goes the spoils and also the right to write his-story.

TRUE
truer than true

witness the words of the contestants:

Hitler:

• The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.
  
• If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
  
• Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
  
• The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.

Churchill:

• For my part, I consider that it will be found much better by all parties to leave the past to history, especially as I propose to write that history myself.
  
• History is written by the victors.
  
• History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
  
• A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

Churchill also said:

Eating words has never given me indigestion.

a good thing, considering what he said about Hitler, before the invasion of Poland:

In fifteen years that have followed this resolve, he has succeeded in restoring Germany to the most powerful position in Europe, and not only has he restored the position of his country, but he has even, to a very great extent, reversed the results of the Great War ... whatever else may be thought about these exploits they are certainly among the most remarkable in the whole history of the world.

try this quiz, "Hitler or Churchill?"

When a country is gearing for war, it makes sense to increase the capacity of the factories, arbitrarily write off debts, seize and control profitable businesses, increase food production and improve the technology available in order to give the best possible footing to work off.

Hitlers economic "miracle" in the 30's was the Nazi's own version of todays military-industrial complex - it was undertaken for a reason, and that reason wasn't for anyone's benefit except for the people who made it happen. (As were the organisations like the Hitler youth that indocrinated children into the Hitler personality cult, and the propaganda ministry that dealt with promoting the state as the ultimate guiding light of everything people should do)

So while, from a certain standpoint, it may seem like some kind of utopia, you have to look at the overall reason for it, and I don't care how you spin it committing a country to a World War because of delusions of grandeur is not a successful business decision.

Reply to post by Doc Velocity

The reason for the war was because the Axis powers wanted the world and was happy to take it by force. Pure and simple, naked aggression.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by OldDragger
There is the gaining power by murder.
Book burning.
Curtailing of personal freedom, The SS and brown shirts.
Total control of media by the government.
Did I mention murder and a police state.
The harrasment of intellectuals and perversion of medicine and science.
The deiafication of the military.
And much, much more.

Yeah, sounds exactly like the modern US to me.

Don't forget false-flag military operations to coerce the population into illegal wars.


In earlier decades the FDA burned all of Dr. Wilhelm Reich's books for weak legal technicality in that he was researching and producing psychological material and they charged him with practicing without a license. They imprisoned him (where he died) and burned every bit of literature they could get their hands on. Here in the US, because, well, I'm sure you know how the FDA works (ran by lobbyists just trying to make money for the pharmaceutical industry..). Perversion of science and medicine as you also mention. Three birds with one stone!

Let's see.. Project Mockingbird, and media being reduced to a handful of mega-corporations over the past few decades. There's your media control. Actually we brought back Nazi propagandists after the war and learned from them, and that's a known historical fact.

Harassment of dissenting intellectuals through educational institutions funded by wealthy elitists and government grants..


The US really is not much different at all than Nazi Germany. Btw prisoners have been tortured to death at Gitmo and we know that now, but the REAL issue with that is that we have many more military prisons around the world that get no media attention (media that is controlled by a few mega-corporations, remember) while Gitmo gets all of it for that subject. So we could also be torturing and massacring hundreds of Muslims and no one would know the better, aside from the ones we carpet bomb to death in residential areas in Iraq and other countries.


Oh yeah, did I mention we've also crossed borders into Pakistan and Yemen and started killing people in those countries, as well? And just dying to start war with Iran.


They say history repeats itself for a reason. And also that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it -- for a reason.

Originally posted by bsbray11
They say history repeats itself for a reason. And also that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it -- for a reason.

So true . . .

"The man who has no sense of history, is like a man who has no ears or eyes."
-Hitler

oh sweet irony . . .

Yes, economy of Germany was getting better after Hitler came to power - if you compare it with 1932. But whole world was in economical woos. US had their great depression in 1930s too and behold - without Hitler they made it through too. Without ruining US democracy, without racial issues.
If you check the results of Hitler's general policy - Germany of 1945 (or actually FRG and GDR) were in much more economic problems then Germany in 1932. So for less then decade of prosperity Germany paid with millions of dead, divided country and other problems.
However if you choose to concentrate only on economy during few years - great. I am sure however that without Hitler and his supposed wonder economy Germany in 1945 would have been be in much better position then what happened historically.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Ironically the US didn't really start coming out of the Great Depression until we started producing weapons for Britain to fight the Germans. Well, that and the New Deal programs.

Then when we joined in ourselves it took off even more. So Hitler kind of was responsible for our economy recovering too.

What the Nazis did, and what the US is doing today, is still atrocious. It just goes to show that economics and war are both ways of manipulating and controlling people, and they always go hand in hand. Whenever there is war, someone is making a killing from it (no pun intended).

If we put all of our productivity towards New Deal-type stuff, there's no reason we couldn't be equally productive and prosperous during times of peace. Hitler wasn't lying when he said the economy should serve the people, not the other way around. That's the whole reason society came up with it and use money and economics (theoretically), not because we feel like making some bastards obscenely rich so they can screw with us. Unfortunately it IS the other way around today because money truly is the root of all evil and what this country is doing economically today is ass backwards.

Originally posted by neformore
When a country is gearing for war, it makes sense to increase the capacity of the factories, arbitrarily write off debts, seize and control profitable businesses, increase food production and improve the technology available in order to give the best possible footing to work off.

BUT if Hitler wanted war, and was preparing for it, ostensibly by improving technology, then why did he undertake such things as improving jobsites, building housing, and helping young families get a start?

Hitlers economic "miracle" in the 30's was the Nazi's own version of todays military-industrial complex - it was undertaken for a reason, and that reason wasn't for anyone's benefit except for the people who made it happen.

there's much more to it than that. you really should look into it a little bit. it is very enlightening.


this doesn't seem to be "state"-oriented, at all:

"We have not broken down classes in order to set new ones in their place; we have broken down classes to make way for the German people as a whole. Our education also trains men to respect intellectual achievement: we bring one to respect the spade, another to respect the compass or the pen. All now are but German fellow-countrymen, and it is their achievement which determines their value...
What is necessary is to teach each class and profession the importance of the others. All together form one mighty body; labourer, peasant, and professional man."
- Adolf Hitler

www.adolfthegreat.com...