Why(to me) it doesn't matter if the Bible is the word of God

What I will try to explain here is why it doesn't matter if the Bible is the word of God. To do it, we will first state these two hypotheses:

A) Bible is the word of God
B) Bible is not the word of God

If hypothesis B is true, the Bible becomes nothing but a huge fiction book.

So, let's take a closer look at Hypothesis A and suppose that the Bible IS the word of God. The problem now is, how are we supposed to understand what God is saying? We don't have God´s knowledge. We don't have his perspective of things. If God can't talk to us as if we are equal to him in knowledge, he would have to dumb it down so we can understand what he is saying, but by the time he is dumbing it down, he is leaving things out.

Lets create a hypothesis C in which God gets frustrated that nobody understands what he is trying to say, so he decides "Man, i should write another book!", so he choses someone(maybe JK Rolling) and whispers the new Bible in that person's ear and that person writes it down word by word what God is dictating.

When we read that new bible we will still have to interpret what God said since words dont have a meaning on their own unless we attach a symbolic value to them. And one word can have multiple symbolic values depending on how one interpret them. And how are we supposed to interpret EVERY SINGLE WORD in God´s bible using exactly the same symbolic values that God intended? We are not God, so our interpretation is probably going to be flawed.

Even if God sat down infront of a computer and wrote it down by himself people wouldn't be able to properly interpret God.

Did you ever understand everything your teachers told you in class? Your teachers were trying to teach you Math, Physics, Chemistry and so on. Did you learn EVERYTHING? Did you understand everything? Are your teachers more knowledgeable than God? No, they are not, so I think it should be a lot more difficult to understand God. Unless, of course, God gives us a pep talk, but then he would miss the point.

So, in conclusion, it doesn't matter if the Bible is God's word or not, because even if it is, we can not be arrogant enough to say that we can think like God and understand what God is saying. So what use does the bible have besides as a holy symbol and as an unfair tool to be used in discussions? It ticks me off when people show a total lack of argument and just say "Because the bible says so.".

The words in the bible are not the same as what is meant to be said with the words put in it. Not to mention the translation problems to other languages.

Anyway, this is not a rant and it is not meant to hurt those who believe in the bible. Just sharing some thoungs and I welcome ANY feedback.(You see, I have to put this disclaimer at the end, because my words could be interpreted in a different way than I intended)

[edit on 30-12-2009 by henriquefd]

reply to post by henriquefd

Why(to me) it doesn't matter if the Bible is the word of God

Perhaps it is because we (mankind) is unable to grasp God's meaning on so many things that the Bible is written so often in the metaphor and allegoric?

Interesting approach... well written to boot! Thanks!

reply to post by henriquefd


I think it's because if God does exist he would have about a trillion better ways to communicate than a book that makes no sense and can be interpreted a thousand different ways.

Religion is man's thinking, man guessing at the mind of the unknown which we call "God". Religion is a small idea. If God were real he would be a BIG idea, cosmically big (if not bigger). So why would he, in his wisdom, choose one book, one group of people, and send only one savior and then damn those who question it to Hell FOREVER to indulge in never ending agony?

It makes no sense. Zero. Nil.

If the Bible were the word of God I think about 96% of people would be going to Hell. The fact that anyone at all would be going there would be a failure of God anyway, since he planted the fruit in the Garden, let a talking snake in and then rather than punishing just Adam and Eve decided the rest of us must be born into sin automatically... here's a tip God, DON'T PLANT THE TREE *facepalm*...

You have made a valid point that I have heard addressed many times.

The first thing I learned in Bible college was how to read the Holy Bible or any Bible for that matter.

First we pray and ask God's guidance in understanding what he wants us to know.

Then the research starts.

There are a few things to find out that will help considerably in your understanding if you will take the time to find them.

Determine who, what. when, and where.

Who was God/Jesus talking to?.

What was the situation when the scripture was said?

What period of time was the Word related to the audience?

Where were the people when the Words were spoken?

Why was the message given and to whom was it directed?

Jesus spoke in parables. I'm not saying what he said was false but He did use examples to prove a point He was trying to make.

The Holy Bible or any other religious bible is the one collection of books that can be studied for a lifetime and it never grows old.

New understanding comes with study.

I have a serious problem with anyone that is a bible thumper or fundie and have not spent many years in study of their subject.

I would not expect a brain surgeon to operate on one's head without much study. The same applies to interpretation of the Holy Bible.

Some say that people have different interpretations of the Holy Bible.
Yes they do but they are false.

There is only one correct interpretation of God's Word. Jesus/God didn't say one thing and mean many more things.

Study and gain understanding and knowledge.

My thoughts - the Bible is written by many people - forget it.

Welcome to Jesus, the only truthful person in the world and the universe.
Do you know why many men do not like Jesus? Because they think He is weak because He does not dominate somebody, - hey, men, does that sound like you?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull
God does have a trillion examples of His Word and man is too ignorant to see and understand.

I look at the American Indians and know they were a very spiritual people.
They took their cue from nature.

I do understand how people can feel that there is no God.

But for me it is very easy. I look at nature and science and know that mankind did not create anything out of nothing. Never did, never will man create an animal or plant.

Man can duplicate what God has made but he cannot create.

Oh, but now man is trying to find the God particle. How ignorant man is. All those billions of dollars spent to find something that may or may not be found and if it is found God created it in the first place.

We think we are so smart. We've built huge cities, gone to the moon and can get around this universe with transportation made with materials God made and we pump the oil God made so we can make fuel for our needs.

We even kill innocent women and children to gain the wondrous materials God has given us to use.

No, God did not make gasoline but he did make the oil and gave man a brain to use to figure out how to use what He made for us.

Man is not so smart. I've seen restaurants and grocery stores throw good food in the garbage at the end of a work day. How stupid is that? There are starving people not far from where any of us live.

We are really very stupid and arrogant people.

Originally posted by dizziedame
You have made a valid point that I have heard addressed many times.

The first thing I learned in Bible college was how to read the Holy Bible or any Bible for that matter.

You too make some valid points but I think its a bit presumptuous for other people to tell you how to interpret the bible.

Whats wrong with people thinking for themselves and affording them the luxury of arriving at their own conclusions?

Are the people at bible college so insecure that they do not want this?

Richard D Hall makes some very interesting points in this programme and I have to say that I think his ideas are just as valid, feasible and plausible as any theological or supernatural opinion.

I would (genuinely) be interested to hear your thoughts on the programme.

Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

If it was written by God (which it wasn't) then why the hell did he write a book? Books decompose.

If I where God, I would have chosen an entire mountain range and engraved the Bible with my almighty God laser eyes

..at least nobody would have been able to alter it without showing evidence of tamper.

Bible is man made, full of complete confusion in order to keep you confused.

Those who believe wholeheartedly on the bible would intend to also believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus. I think its time for the world to "grow up".

Its all a load of crap anyway. There is a God, but God is pure energy. When Ice, asteroids, planetary bodies and moons all collide; it forms a Star. This star is the Sun, the Sun has many phases and in 4 billion years time it will no longer be a Sun, it will be a "Red Giant". If God wrote the bible, do you not think he would have warned you about that?

If God made the Sun, then how the hell did he/she do that exactly? And what size is God? Because those planets and moons and ice etc...they weigh a hefty weight. Do you think he put it all in a bowl, stirred it until golden, and put it in the oven at gas mark 6 for 20 minutes? That is one huge oven.

Or did he magically wave his magic wand and KA-BAM, A Sun, and lots of planets. Then God decides that Earth should be the only planet in the ENTIRE UNIVERSE that should know the word of God, and with all Gods magical powers he did not even think of making an indestructible bible Or laser his words onto our moon for remote reading

Its a lot of crap, God is neutrons, electrons, protons, ether and all the forms of everything in the Universe. Why the hell would he want this pathetic planet to know anything? Where is he exactly? Or to you Christians, is it: "Oh, wait until you die and you will find out" - Although in reality, I can not come back from the dead to tell you "YOUR WRONG GIVE ME A REFUND". Then they call it Faith, whereas smart people call it BS.

Funny how the entire world for thousands and thousands and THOUSANDS of years have fought and murdered and slaughtered and raped and pillaged in the name of God just because someone doesnt believe them that THEIR imaginary perception of some god is different to others.

Is it just me, or is RELIGION THE MOST EVIL thing that ever existed?

Ever hear that old saying "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist"?

Well here is my saying: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was creating Religion in order to divide and conquer humanity in the guise of a positive God (the creator, the energy of all)".

Christians don't even obey their commandments, they NEVER practice what they preach. Everyone on this planet is guilty of hurting someone else, even to the slightest degree.

reply to post by dizziedame


So are you saying that nature itself is "God's Word"? Than nature would make God's presence apparent and simple scientific observation would only make it more apparent.

I never said I don't believe in God. I don't rule out a higher power or consciousness greater than our own, though I have rejected religion as a way to find proof of this "God".

Man CAN create. We do it everyday it's called procreation or, if you want, reproduction. In fact all life reproduces. We also have pretty advanced genetic sciences, if we wanted to we could probably create a brand new life form from scratch, if not now than by the end of the century. Bioengineering isn't new, we selectively bred plants, like the banana, to be easier to eat and today genetically modified foods are all over the shelves. There is no evidence that the original copies of any of these came from something outside of natural processes.

It's only nicknamed the God Particle. If a Higgs Boson were created in the LHC it would clearly be created by manmade processes and therefore not by God. That's like saying that the person who invented books created all books even those not written by them or at all connected to them. It makes no sense. Arguably the person who invented books is responsible for, the invention of books, but that does not make them, by extension, the inventor of War and Peace or The Bible.

While I agree that mankind can be arrogant and stupid I fail to see how that relates to God, the Bible, or any of this. Religious people are just as arrogant as those who don't believe, since most religions and their followers claim to have an absolute monopoly on the truth and make the claim that anything that doesn't fit into their beliefs is false. While most people, when presented with evidence, will accept something based on it. The facts, observations, data that are proven is what should be accepted.

God may well be real, but it's fairly clear the Bible is not his word.

Originally posted by karl 12

You too make some valid points but I think its a bit presumptuous for other people to tell you how to interpret the bible.

Whats wrong with people thinking for themselves and affording them the luxury of arriving at their own conclusions?

Are the people at bible college so insecure that they do not want this?

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Well, according to the Pope, we can't interpret the bible on our own.

Bible can only be understood with the Church, Pope tells scholars

That's probably so there is only ONE official interpretation.

Maybe the Apostolic Church should release a book called "The official interpretation of the Bible". But then again, reading is on itself an action of interpretation of the symbolic values attatched to the words, so we would have to interpret that book as well and try to understand it as the Apostolic Church intended us to. It's an infinite loop which hold us hostage to whatever the Apostolic Church tells us to be the truth.




[edit on 30-12-2009 by henriquefd]

reply to post by henriquefd


So, is Jesus up there? With the word of God?

The Bible was written over 6300 years.
By 44 men most of whom never knew each other.
There were 350 prophecies about Jesus.
Each one was fulfilled.
The Old Testament (covenant) was based on LAW and following law to achieve sanctification.
The New Testament (covenant) is based on SPIRIT.

editing begins.

Having a Spirit in yourself that is Eager to understand, Attentive with Intense desire to understand, Trusting to gain the understanding, enables the Spirit of God to speak to your willing spirit and you will hear and read exactly what the Spirit of God imparts to you.

Trying to approach reading the Bible, the WORD of GOD with intellectual aspirations will leave you confused. Just like you taking a text book dealing with the subject of Calculus will render most confused.

Reading with honest spiritual aspirations will satisfy the hungry heart.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by fmcanarney]

Originally posted by TaraLou
reply to post by henriquefd

 

So, is Jesus up there? With the word of God?

You will have to email the Pope, since it seems he is the only one with the official answer to the matter. =P

Originally posted by fmcanarney
The Bible was written over 6300 years.
By 44 men most of whom never knew each other.
There were 350 prophecies about Jesus.
Each one was fulfilled.
The Old Testament (covenant) was based on LAW and following law to achieve sanctification.
The New Testament (covenant) is based on SPIRIT.

Having a Spirit in yourself that is Eager to understand, Attentive with Intense desire to understand, Trusting to gain the understanding, enables the Spirit of God to speak to your willing spirit and you will hear and read exactly what the Spirit of God imparts to you.

But how would other people not under the influence of the Holy Spirit understand what was written? And how the person writing under the influence of the Holy Spirit can expect to pass down the knowledge which is beyond the boundaries of language, into the limits of language? And the person translating the bible to other langues, shouldnt they also be under the influence of the holy spirit? Shouldnt the Holy Spirit come down from time to time to UPDATE the bible to a more modern language so the word of god is easier to understand? Even microsoft updates Windows constantly. =P

Sin
The Seven Deadly Sins

We should not be satisfied merely to keep the commandments of God, but should always be ready to do good deeds, even when they are not commanded. The commandments of God state the minimum requirements for salvation. They should be kept not merely according to the letter, but also according to the spirit, which obliges us to strive for greater perfection.

Actual sin is any willful thought, desire, word, action or ommission forbidden by the law of God.

PRIDE: Unrestrained appreciation of our own worth.
GREED: Immoderate desire for earthly goods.
LUST: Hankering for impure pleasures.
ANGER: Inordinate desire for revenge.
GLUTTONY: Unrestrained use of food and drink.
ENVY: Sorrow over another's good fortune.
SLOTH: Laxity in keeping the Faith and the practice of virtue, due to the effort involved.

THE FOUR SINS CRYING TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE

Willful murder (including abortion)
The sin of Sodom.
Oppression of the poor.
Defrauding laborers of their wages.

THE SIX SINS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT

Presumption of God's mercy.
Despair.
Impugning the known truth.
Envy at another's spiritual good.
Obstinacy in sin.
Final impenitence.

NINE WAYS OF BEING ACCESSORY TO ANOTHER'S SIN

By counsel.
By command.
By consent.
By provocation.
By praise or flattery.
By concealment.
By partaking.
By silence.
By defense of the ill done

reply to post by henriquefd


But how would other people not under the influence of the Holy Spirit understand what was written?

They will not unless they employ the Spirit of God within them to gain understanding.

And how the person writing under the influence of the Holy Spirit can expect to pass down the knowledge which is beyond the boundaries of language, into the limits of language?

That is Gods problem, not theirs. Oftentimes the writers of the Books in the Bible admit they do not understand what they are writing.


And the person translating the bible to other languages, shouldnt they also be under the influence of the holy spirit?

Anyone who goes to the trouble of translating to another language will invariably be guided by the spirit.

Shouldnt the Holy Spirit come down from time to time to UPDATE the bible to a more modern language so the word of god is easier to understand? Even microsoft updates Windows constantly.

Jesus said He is leaving the Holy Spirit upon the earth, and the pentecost, with the disciples in the upper room with tongues of fire descending onto them is the written word of this occurrence.

reply to post by henriquefd


That's all well and good, but you're constructing an argumentative theory on a flawed concept. You're working under the assumption that 'god' exists in that type of anthropomorphic fashion, which is ego-centric because it uses a human-based and human-created archetype. So, if you take into consideration that there is no old white guy with a long beard and robes, sitting in his drawing room, watching all of you and paying the greatest attention to the most minute detail of of the lives of each individual in the universe, then yes, the bible is just a bunch of words in just another book. The greatest selling work of fiction in the history of the world, yes, but still just another book.

Originally posted by henriquefd
Well, according to the Pope, we can't interpret the bible on our own.

Bible can only be understood with the Church, Pope tells scholars

That's probably so there is only ONE official interpretation.

Well thats rather convenient isn't it.

To my mind there are quite a few contradictions, inconsistencies, inaccuracies and discrepencies in the bible - perhaps thats why followers are instructed in how to interpret it.

I think John Hartung hits the nail on the head in this quote:

"The Bible is a blueprint of in-group morality, complete with instructions for genocide, enslavement of out-groups, and world domination. But the Bible is not evil by virtue of its objectives or even its glorification of murder, cruelty, and rape . Many ancient works do that-The Iliad, the Icelandic Sagas, the tales of the ancient Syrians and the inscriptions of the ancient Mayans, for example. But no one is selling the Iliad as a foundation for morality. Therein lies the problem".
John Hartung.

Cheers.

Originally posted by Matthew Dark
reply to post by henriquefd

 

That's all well and good, but you're constructing an argumentative theory on a flawed concept. You're working under the assumption that 'god' exists in that type of anthropomorphic fashion, which is ego-centric because it uses a human-based and human-created archetype. So, if you take into consideration that there is no old white guy with a long beard and robes, sitting in his drawing room, watching all of you and paying the greatest attention to the most minute detail of of the lives of each individual in the universe, then yes, the bible is just a bunch of words in just another book. The greatest selling work of fiction in the history of the world, yes, but still just another book.

I see how it looks like my text anthropomorphised God. That was not the intention, but I can see it can look like that. Like I said, that's the problem with language. Hard to interpret words the way they were meant to be interpreted.

[edit on 30-12-2009 by henriquefd]

Originally posted by fmcanarney
We should not be satisfied merely to keep the commandments of God, but should always be ready to do good deeds, even when they are not commanded.

I think that has far more to do with common human decency than any instruction from a book.

Are you suggesting nobody posessed moral integrity until 2000 years ago?

..and weren't the ten commandments just conveniently borrowed of the Egyptians anyway?