Chronology of Creation in the Bible... it doesn't start in Genesis!

First the problem being argued is based on a word or words misconceived~

The word Love in Hebrew is AHaB and Jewish AHaVaH it is the source of our word Behoove as Necessary Necessity or Need.

The Biblical period understood the matter of favoring, the favorable thing, the 'to be favored' and the 'favorite' as the Loving Lovely and Beloved... and the one meeting the need whatever of the moment was the 'in Love' active.


As for GOD it is a far East withdrawn "word" sought to be "the word" and alternative to the Latin DEO from Greek deomai "sought petitioned begged"
and came from the source of the Roman AVM (Agni Varuna Mithra) being translated Genera (creator) Opera (sustainer) Demoli (renewer). It was taken up by Protestants breaking from the Vulgar and translates these:

EL (to/toward; Intent) ELaH (a goal; Objective) in possessives as
ELaHI (mine) ELaHIK (yours) ELaHINU (ours) ELaHIM (all/everys)

THEOS (concept/ideal)


As concerns the Origin of EL there is amazing evidence to be brought to bear as proof-
EL Icon Petroglyphs from the early Ligature phase of Archaic Hebrew have been found on 6 continents!

It represents the Earth on its angled Axis (as intended/ meant to be), and it's also a time measure -the biggest circle of all the Hebrew time circles, almost as big as a Solar year glyph (like a star of David) which has a inner circle the same size as the lunar circle around a dot (you)- EL being either 'a day' or a great cycle of time like the 25,000 year Galactic arms 'day'!



[edit on 2010/1/30 by YeHUaH ELaHaYNU]

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by Locoman8

 

You are being irrational. I don't mind if people talk about God, just don't phrase it as fact. That is ignorant, dishonest, and quite frankly damaging to the conversation.

I'm not denying people have different beliefs, but if they can't demonstrate them to be true through any actual real evidence (trees are not evidence of God, btw), then they are being by definition irrational. To entertain them as valid, when trying to have a discussion, is pointless, as where do we turn logic on and off? How can we have a discussion, using language, where some illogical ideas are allowed to be called true, and others not? That makes no sense. If people are so upset about having their shaky, baseless beliefs called into question, maybe they should not parade them in front of others when they are trying to have a decent conversation?

Your evidence is not evidence, by the way. None of it is. Not even close.

How can you say it's not fact? You have no proof that it's not fact. All I'm saying is this thread was started for Christains or those who believe in "creationism" and to those who believe in creationism, we view God as fact and some of us view the Holy bible as factual. You don't have to believe it but don't parade around in this thread looking for someone to argue with just because you don't view their beliefs as fact and they do. God and religion is neither proven or disproven in a scientifc sense so people can take one side or the other. Do me a favor and stop trying to squeeze milk out of a turnip with this argument. I have yet to see a post from you in reference to the original post. No disrespect but you are not contributing to the thread. Start your own thread to tell us how wrong we are if that's your pleasure. Good day to you.

reply to post by Locoman8


Everything is not a fact by default, until proven to be so. That is how logic works.

So, if you make the claim, you have to show the evidence.

Religion doesn't get a free pass because so many people use it as an excuse to not think rationally.

I am contributing to the thread by pointing out some nonsensical claims people are making in the thread. I'm denying ignorance, not putting a dog collar on it and giving it a bunch of cash.

reply to post by Locoman8

Genesis 1:2
2 The earth was [or "became"] without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

I would argue that this passage above would also apply to a number of planets in the solar system, specifically the ones with dense atmospheres. Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are also without form and void. I believe the earth was like them in the beginning, deadly to human habitation.

I believe the Genesis account covers some parts about earth’s preparation for habitation. I agree with you on the fact that there are missing details in Genesis. The existence of dinosaurs has never been explained by any religious organization. Why would God create so many large animals just to be destroyed later on? This part was probably left out because it does not apply to us. Your theory about rebelling spirit creatures before Adam and Eve's creation seems possible. It seems too much of a coincidence for the first rebellion only to take place at the time of Adam and Eve.

reply to post by lostinspace


Thank you for contributing. That's all this is about. explaining the gap in Genesis. Some people here don't understand that.

Props to the OP. Haven't read all the replies. Seems like an interesting theory. Can't accept it right off the bat, but it will have me thinking about it for a while. After all, none of us are going to Heaven but there will be a New Heaven and New Earth that we will inhabit (not many Christians are aware of this). God is in the business of restoring what has become imperfect (like us).

I see all these other stories of other religions and cultures having similar experiences to be encouraging. They experienced what was recorded in the Bible, and either the story altered as it passed through time via stories from one generation to the next or they simply did not know how to describe the events in the first place.

reply to post by Locoman8


If one will note;

the Genesis account & the Revelation vision distinguish the TWO seperate/ unique
natures of all living beings,
in that all of the animal kingdom & Planetary life came (Evolved) from the 'waters'
(Specifically 'the waters' below the Firmament...and not from the waters
above the heavens)- Gen 1:7 whatever that means

and only 'Adam' was uniquely Formed or 'Created' from the dust of the Planet !
Rev 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


There has to be something significant about the creatures from 'Water'
and the creatures (or Beasts) which come from dust/clay/soil/ground 'Earth'

If Lucifer has Title to the Planet & used the evolutionary process in a water
environment to eventually produce a chaos of land animals/dinosaurs & such

But then the Creator set aside a 'Garden' in which to create an 'Adamic' human
directly from the 'Red-Clay', and to then have Adam organize the world & nature.



~~~~~~

REV 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns

REV 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon

GEN 1:20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GEN 1:21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly ...


the two types of life forms again. the water made & the clay made 'Man'

perhaps the end times beasts from both the SEA & the LAND are a
staged event between the world of Lucifer (sea-evolution)
and the world of God-creation (clay fashioned Man)



Locoman8 is correct, Lucifer owns this planet... why else would 'Believers'
be said to have been 'Redeemed' from this world ?


i would ask the OP, if the Gen 1:7
(7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament
from the waters which were above the firmament:8 And God called the firmament Heaven)
Is this reference to the outerspace 'waters' of the deep
actually a metaphor for 'dark energy - dark matter'
or a Portal/Vortex/wormhole analogy ?



thanks for the thinking sessions

Originally posted by nitehawk
...... This said if you look in Genesis Chapter 1 and the days of creation God always ended each day with "it was good" on all days except the day He created the firmament or the air surrounding the earth (Genesis 1:6, 1:7, 1:8). Interesting that God did not find that part of creation good.

So the omniescent and omnipotent 'God' made a mistake did he?

And if 'he' is omniescent and omnipotent how come Lucifer / Satan / call him what you will, thought he had a chance of beating 'him' and gave 'him' a run for his money?

Sorry, I just can't buy it and I think that some of the other interpretations offered here are far more plausible.

However, I must say I have enjoyed reading this thread.

reply to post by St Udio


As far as I understand it, the waters between the firmament are the cloud producing rain waters and the seas/oceans/lakes/etc. on the land. The firmament between the waters is earth's atmosphere... the lower atmosphere. The bible does explain 3 heavens. The atmosphere of earth... basically the gravital air between the cosmos and the land. The cosmos of space outside of earth and the spiritual demention where God, Jesus and the angels all dwell. So, the "firmament" known as "heaven" between the waters of the sky and land would be considered the "atmosphereic heaven".

Good posts by the way. Very interesting concepts.

So there's no confusion, the 3 heavens are here....

1. Earth's atmosphere (firmament)
2. Cosmos of space
3. Demention of the spirit beings... God, Jesus, angels.

reply to post by Freeborn


God didn't make the mistake. He made all creatures pure and with free will. Even His angels had free will. One angel, Lucifer, had free will and decided that his beauty made him more powerful than God.... a big mistake. Our purpose on earth is to pass the tests of lucifer/satan's persuasion to the best of our abilities. Jesus gave us a more defined path to sway from this satanic persuasion which were all defined by the ten commandments. The Holy Spirit is God's power working in our lives as pull strings to help veer us in the right direction. I respect your point of view and I can see why you think God made a mistake. It's all on how you look at it I guess. Thanks for contributing.

Originally posted by lostinspace
I would argue that this passage above would also apply to a number of planets in the solar system, specifically the ones with dense atmospheres. Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are also without form and void. I believe the earth was like them in the beginning, deadly to human habitation.

For some reason, the part above that I bolded made me think of Mars, and how desolate it is. My mind then went to thinking that maybe it was the "original Earth", so to speak. And that when it came time for God to "start over", it was easier to move to another planet than to try and repair the damage (or maybe he left it to be seen as a warning).

Things like the dinosaurs (what was talked about earlier in this thread) automatically punch a giant hole in that thought, but I thought I would post it anyways.

I've enjoyed reading this thread, so thank you to all who have contributed.

reply to post by riddle6


And I thank you for your creative thoughts on the planet switching... though I disagree with you on it. Like you said, the "dinosaur" thing put a hole in that argument. Thanks for contributing.

reply to post by Locoman8


Yeah, it was never really anything I thought was even close to plausible, but I thought I would go ahead and post it anyways, because there are some incredibly smart people on ATS that might have been able to do something with the idea.

reply to post by riddle6



This is my thinking on the fate of Mars.

Ages ago Mars once was in orbit around a large planet comparible to that of Saturn. This large planet became unstable and exploded into a million pieces. Mars was pushed into its own orbitting belt closer to earth. The surface was Mars was scarred and its carbon atmosphere was thinned out.

The destruction of this planet had a purpose. To ruin the earth.

Originally posted by cwt8466

Originally posted by TheMythLives

I do have a question, however, if Lucifer does have control of the world can he also create? I know it does not exactley go with your thread, but it sort of does to a point. Could Lucifer also have the power to create things as well since .............

If I remember correctly, it states somewhere in the Bible that one of the ways to distinguish the falsities of Satan from the truth of God/Jesus was the he did not have the power of creation. Satan could perform or imitate every other miracle except the gift of creation, that was exclusively God's domain.

We can see evidence of the "Creative" and "Creator" in action in the First Chapter of Genesis.

From Verse One through to after the day of rest, we see one Creator alone, and this was GOD.

During the 6th Day, we see some colaboration occuring, but review of the text, indicates once again, GOD alone "Created".

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our
likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all
the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
earth. in
1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God
created he him; male and female created he them.

There is discussion in Verse 26 of a joint effort to bring forth the Creation of Mankind, both male and female, and duties given to them.

But in Verse 27, we find only one entity actually performed or created and again it is GOD alone.

I just chose this as an example because of the Clairity and Ease of locating and expressing this in the simplest manner.

The Sons of GOD seemed to have some input into "Creation" but had no involvement in the actual Creation itself.

As for the "other" Entity, Satan, he does have POWERS and is able to create, but it is thru manipulation of things aposed to actually creating them.

Look at JOB and the extent Satan used to try and "Breakdown" Job in the Story. He, Satan, created weather events to destroy that what was JOB's or his family.

No, Satans also has further abilities to create Chaos and Confusion but this is as far as it goes. The realm of Babel is Satan's playground.

I did not see anyone addressed this fully, so since space was available I expected a response was owed.

Hope it helps

Ciao

Shane

reply to post by Shane


Though I agree with much of what you said on this thread so far, I have to disagree with you on the "single entity" theory. Verse 26 does mention God creating and using the plural "Us" and "Our". Obviously, Satan was already on earth as he was waiting to decieve Adam and Eve. Also, it's because of Satan that chaos and desolation ended up on earth which is why there was a re-creation needed. The Us and Our in verse 26 of Genesis 1 was a conversation of Jesus and the Father. Jesus was known as the "Word of God" before becoming a flesh and blood human. The word "God" in Genesis 1 is the Hebrew word "Elohim" which is uni-plural. It's a plural form of God used in a singular manner. An example is "The United States of America" which is a collection of states under one country. "God" in this sense is more than one. The Father and Son. I call it "The Family of God" which only consists of the Father and Son right now until Jesus resurrects the saints in the marriage of Jesus and the Church at His return. Remember John 1.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

So it says that the Word was with God and that He was God as well. He was with God in the beginning. Nothing was made without the Word. Jesus was the actual Creator/Carpenter and the Father was the Architect.

Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. Peace.

reply to post by Locoman8


I understand you response, and in cases such as this, to each his own. Your thoughts are yours to have and express.

That's what makes discussions and opinions being expressed a debate. (Unlike some of those who offer nothing, but are full of $#!+ and spew crap about the problems they suggest are haboured within Your views and thoughts.)

I guess Orwell wasn't that far off. Thought Police within ATS. Say it aint so!!!

I am more incline to think of the "Collective" which brings the uniqueness of creation to a fuller conclusion, as in the cases of the Races themselves.

None of the Sons of GOD are alike, as we can see in scripture. Take a look at Satan, and the unique entity he truly is. We see this in the balance of nature as well, when considering the Flora and Fauna on this Planet.

One or Two points of reference would limit this varity and offer the thinking like those backward types have that believe Cain's wife was his sister, or that the Black Race was a result of GOD's curse upon Ham for his discretion. Of course, both of these verge on lunacy, and come from ignorance.

I believe there are Sons of GOD that have Asian Features, Nubian Features, Aborigine Features, Ayran Features, etc, and when the discussion occurs in verse 26, it is bringing these "Likenesses" to the forefront.

But saying this, I still feel verse 27 covers the "Creation" in the act, and that the Sons of GOD had no part in this. Now as you have expressed, this may infact be incusive of Jesus, which I do not have difficulty with. It could therefore also be inclusive of the Holy Spirit or better said, the whole "Trinity" for that matter.

I guess it would be akin to spliting hairs, but I just wished to offer you my view and why I do have it.

Thanks for your input and replies. Hopefully others can also seek to ask questions and offer their views, without the badgering of the witless and clueless, who only wish to cause crap.

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by St Udio

 

So there's no confusion, the 3 heavens are here....

1. Earth's atmosphere (firmament)
2. Cosmos of space
3. Demention of the spirit beings... God, Jesus, angels.

Sorry, but I'm confused. "Demention" seems to imply madness, or the engendering of madness (dementia, demented, etc.)

Did you mean dimension?

Also, I thought the stars were in the firmament?

reply to post by Locoman8


You guys made me think about this further. I am in total agreeement that Jesus is the Carpenter of the creation and the Almighty is the Source and Architect of the physical creations. Jesus channeled the power but God gets all the credit because he was the financer, so to speak.

This explains the construction project, but who was to be the superindendent of the property after it was completed?

If Satan is really being described in Ezekiel 28:12-15 then it seems God put him in charge of the entire planet in the beginning. We're talking the first angel to get one of the greatest authorities outside of Jesus. For some strange reason Satan was fond of the serpent family and chose it to be his mouthpiece. Did he have input into its design?

This may give weight as to why Satan was allowed to rule the earth, even after the rebellion in Eden. He was supposed to be a righteous Senator for the first state of the union, but instead he turned into a Darth Sidious. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I've always wondered about these details in Ezekiel. The passage almost sounds like the being described is the earth with the mind of a cherub.