Neptune's Mass Recalculated

Has anybody ever read the documentation of the cataclysmic evolution by Dr Immanuel Velikovsky his first book based on scientific evidence about prior pole shifts and their timelines and the evidence that supports his theories.(earth in upheaval)The second book he wrote is based on his research into the different cultural histories both oral and written (worlds in collision).In my opinion this man,s books put to rest a lot of my speculation into the 2012 theories.As he clearly explains and defines how the last one s happened cause and effect logically and in my opinion very plausible and logical.Apparently he and Albert Einstein talked in great detail about his theories and agreed on some of them.In short he tells us how Venus was once a comet and collided with mars and the fallout from those occurrences how ancient people called mars the god of war and Venus was Lucifer and how all of the planets were once named archangels in reference to biblical times and what was happening in the night skies.How one event was happing in ISRAEL and at the same time catastrophic events were being recorded by north American Indians.I have come into possession both of these books and do recommend them to any and all who are concerned about 2012 as I feel that it may shed quite a different light on this entire subject.In my opinion Velikovsky is to his studies as Tesla was to his .
Hope this can be of use to any and all

Peace

something fishy is going on again. they must have seen something that they dont want the people to see

Originally posted by whiteroot
Has anybody ever read the documentation of the cataclysmic evolution by Dr Immanuel Velikovsky his first book based on scientific evidence about prior pole shifts and their timelines and the evidence that supports his theories.(earth in upheaval)The second book he wrote is based on his research into the different cultural histories both oral and written (worlds in collision).In my opinion this man,s books put to rest a lot of my speculation into the 2012 theories.As he clearly explains and defines how the last one s happened cause and effect logically and in my opinion very plausible and logical.Apparently he and Albert Einstein talked in great detail about his theories and agreed on some of them.In short he tells us how Venus was once a comet and collided with mars and the fallout from those occurrences how ancient people called mars the god of war and Venus was Lucifer and how all of the planets were once named archangels in reference to biblical times and what was happening in the night skies.How one event was happing in ISRAEL and at the same time catastrophic events were being recorded by north American Indians.I have come into possession both of these books and do recommend them to any and all who are concerned about 2012 as I feel that it may shed quite a different light on this entire subject.In my opinion Velikovsky is to his studies as Tesla was to his .
Hope this can be of use to any and all

Peace

Interesting, Maybe I'll look into it. Does he talk about the last pole shift as if it was a fast event? The reason I ask is we have proof that the last one took 1000s of years to slowly shift, though that is still extemely fast in planet change it is almost not noticable with life forms.

Also how long ago would the planets collide? I’m hoping he is only suggesting they collided during their birth stage in the first 500 million or so years, since it would be an extremely hard thing for them to do without some serious scars at a later date. Our moon was most likely once apart of earth and during when early earth was molten it got hit by a mars size planet.

I don't believe Venus is a comet since it has the makeup that is typical of earth and mars and not that of a comet, so it came from the same substance that the smaller planet came from.

Doing a quick look into his writings he suggests we were basically a moon from Saturn while humans walked the earth, and I don’t think there would be any life on the planet, or at least advance life if earth was just slightly adjusted from its balanced orbit it has now.

He also suggest that Venus came from Jupiter and with resent tests we now know that Jupiter has almost the same makeup as the sun does… 85% hydrogen and 15% Helium, Jupiter is a failed sun since it didn’t get big enough to produce nuclear fission, but once again Venus is nowhere near like Jupiter.


[edit on 3-1-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


This is a link to one of his books...

www.archive.org...


I've not read all of if but there is plenty of evidence from what I have read to prove pole shifts can and do happen very very rapidly.

There are many astronomers, amateurs, many my friends, that have big telescopes.
No one has ever seen some Niribu like planet.

It could exist, but if existing, it is still well beyond Pluto. It still could affect the Sun and a little bit our climate by gravitational pull, but no catastrophic effect. If it would pass close to Earth then it would be 10-15 years from now, otherwise it would be visible by now! If we would see it naked eye, then it could mean trouble.

My advice: relax and enjoy life

[edit on 3-1-2010 by segurelha]

Originally posted by skem64

I've not read all of if but there is plenty of evidence from what I have read to prove pole shifts can and do happen very very rapidly.

Is there is physical proof to this and not just theories? The changes in the sea floor and other areas of the crust show a shift in the metals that takes 1000s of years for these areas to shift as they follow the poles.

Now thousands of years is extremely fast though….

Also the poles can start to shift tomorrow, or maybe have already started or could just as easily start in 100,000 years. It is only us humans that seem to think that long term events will happen in our short life spans.

reply to post by Xtrozero


As I indicated in Velikovskys book earth in upheaval.It is strictly based on scientific irrefutable data relating to pole shifts cause and effect.In my opinion from what I can surmise there have been many different pole shifts caused by different terrestrial influences on our planet.I urge you to read both of these books and then state your opinions after for I truly believe that you will be compelled to look at these scenarios ie: pole shifts in a different light.It appears that the up and coming date 2102 is inferring to a pole shift based on procession of the equinox and that perhaps the more recent one s that the author is referring to were caused by as I said by terrestrial influences. as I said before in reading his books I am compelled to look at the evidence that is written and come to very different conclusions than I had before reading these two books.
At the least I would think that based on what I have written which is just skimming the surface that it would be intellectually stimulating for you to read these books so you may form your own conjecture and retort accordingly.

Sincerely,
Whiteroot

reply to post by Xtrozero

I must retract my first statement about irrefutable proof as to the catalyst which caused the cataclysm the evidence is irrefutable as to event .In my opinion his theories as to cause are very plausible and in reading both of his works you can correlate the time lines in written and oral history and the scientific evidence and surely come to the same conclusions that I have perhaps not but worth the effort I am sure!

Whiteroot

Interesting post

This sort of thing always leaves me awestruck. I love how somewhere along the way science has the potential to crumble completely due to some of its most basic assumptions being proved wrong and replaced. The ever changing state of the universe is refreshing to me

peace

As I understand it, it looks like the data are being interpreted backwards herein.

When Neptune and Uranus were first discovered, early estimates of their mass seemed too low to account for their orbits. Later measurements of their mass indicated that there was no need for anything to be perturbing their orbits.

Also, one noted above "Honestly I would sooner believe information is being censored and the new math fudged than the people who originally discovered the outer planets' using math in the first place were doing their calculations wrong. Not only were they able to accurately predict where new planets would be, ..."

If you're going to go this route, that's great. But note that folks like Lowell spent a TON of time looking for something that would perturb the orbits of Neptune and Uranus, using just this math that you say allows them to "accurately predict where new planets would be" and found... Nothing there. Because they had the mass of the planets wrong, which would have been very difficult to calculate using an optical telescope alone.

reply to post by Xtrozero


The north pole has started moving at a rate of 40 miles per year due to a core flux. If it were to keep moving at this rate it would take 310.75 years for it to reach the other side of the earth. I calculated this by dividing the flight distance from the northern to southern pole by 40.

Therefore the pole would not take "thousands of years" to shift it could happen well within the millenium.


news.nationalgeographic.com...

[edit] forgot to add source.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by DeathShield]

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by skem64

I've not read all of if but there is plenty of evidence from what I have read to prove pole shifts can and do happen very very rapidly.

Is there is physical proof to this and not just theories? The changes in the sea floor and other areas of the crust show a shift in the metals that takes 1000s of years for these areas to shift as they follow the poles.

Now thousands of years is extremely fast though….

Also the poles can start to shift tomorrow, or maybe have already started or could just as easily start in 100,000 years. It is only us humans that seem to think that long term events will happen in our short life spans.

First off I want to thank you all for taking the time to post your opinions....Having researched the topic of "2012" over the last 18 months I have to admit, I've been convinced the # will be hitting the fan pretty soon. There is so much "evidence" out there. But with this "new" (new to me) evidence that Neptune does not have a Perturber...well it kinda removes the "scientific" evidence (regarding Nibiru).

Xtro'....as for "physical proof" ...there have been thousands of mammoths found frozen in Siberia with "fresh" food still between their teeth and in their stomaches. In fact the meat (of these animals) was in such good condition it was fed to the huskey dogs. Also, the food in their stomaches' was of sub-tropical nature indicating that the Freeze happened fast and was continuous and that the animals were not native to that location.
Also, there have been fossil remains of animals and Man found together in caves. Though found in the same caves, these animals were from totally different parts of the world, predators and prey sharing the same place. These remains were free of teeth marks yet their bones were smashed.
This in itself is not actual proof of pole-shift but it does suggest a massive tsunami carried these animals and people to their death.

A tsunami on the scale of the one resulting from the earthquake off the coast of Indonesia (2004?) would not be nearly big enough to cause such devastation but consider this....If the rotation of our planet suddenly reversed it would firstly come to a stop. The land mass(es) would judder to a stop but the oceans would continue to move before comming to a stop. If the law of physics is universal then once our planet crosses the plain of the Milky Way (the winter solstice 2012 marks the point when we align with the Plain) the rotation of the planet could well spin in the opposite direction (as does water going down the plug hole in the southern hemisphere move in an oposite direction from water in the northern hemisphere (hurricanes too act this way))
Finally, there is the sub-tropical forest beneath the Antartic to consider. From core samples it has been shown that this land mass moved over 2000 miles to it's present position.

As someone said earlier, read Velikovsky's book(s) and form your own conclusion.

Peace.

Originally posted by segurelha
There are many astronomers, amateurs, many my friends, that have big telescopes.
No one has ever seen some Niribu like planet.

It could exist, but if existing, it is still well beyond Pluto. It still could affect the Sun and a little bit our climate by gravitational pull, but no catastrophic effect. If it would pass close to Earth then it would be 10-15 years from now, otherwise it would be visible by now! If we would see it naked eye, then it could mean trouble.

My advice: relax and enjoy life

[edit on 3-1-2010 by segurelha]

From what I've read, Nibiru is a Brown dwarf and therefor has no light (or very little). This would explain why it hasn't been seen as yet with a telescope. Though, as I type this I'm reminded that Dr. Robert Harrington (allegedly) used an 8" telescope in New Zealand...doh! the mind boggles!

ps. An "in comming" planet might explain the climate changes on our planet and all the other planets in our solar system.

Originally posted by suomichris

......Also, one noted above "Honestly I would sooner believe information is being censored and the new math fudged than the people who originally discovered the outer planets' using math in the first place were doing their calculations wrong. Not only were they able to accurately predict where new planets would be, ..."

If you're going to go this route, that's great. But note that folks like Lowell spent a TON of time looking for something that would perturb the orbits of Neptune and Uranus, using just this math that you say allows them to "accurately predict where new planets would be" and found... Nothing there. Because they had the mass of the planets wrong, which would have been very difficult to calculate using an optical telescope alone.

before anyone jumps on me for my last post...I know I got it wrong! Nibiru is not a brown dwarf, the "brown dwarf" is the sun and Nibiru is one of the seven bodies that orbit it. At least according to what I have read and the images I have seen. Sorry for the mistake.

Anyway, as for the above statement re: misinformation, well, we only have to cast our minds back a few years to the "dodgy dossier" the Tony Blair government put out in support of invading Iraq...he said Iraq was capable of firing missiles (at us; UK) within 45 minutes. Then of course there was the blatant lies about the WMDs. Also, I might add, the company Monsanto has a terrible record regarding honesty. Why is this relevant? (you may ask)..because, many of their people went in to government and visa versa. (google monsanto revolving doors). My point is we just cannot trust politicians to tell the truth either in the US or the UK..anywhere in fact!

Originally posted by skem64
before anyone jumps on me for my last post...I know I got it wrong! Nibiru is not a brown dwarf, the "brown dwarf" is the sun and Nibiru is one of the seven bodies that orbit it. At least according to what I have read and the images I have seen. Sorry for the mistake.

But this is the thing--you clearly haven't read any science; I'm not sure what you have been reading, but I suggest you stop

The sun is not a brown dwarf. It is a main-sequence star.

And what do you mean that "Nibiru is one of the seven bodies that orbit [our Sun]"? What seven bodies? If you consider only the planets (excluding poor little Pluto) you already have eight bodies, not to mention that millions upon millions of asteroids, comets, Kuiper belt and Oort cloud objects, etc.

Anyway, as for the above statement re: misinformation, well, we only have to cast our minds back a few years to the "dodgy dossier" the Tony Blair government put out in support of invading Iraq...he said Iraq was capable of firing missiles (at us; UK) within 45 minutes. Then of course there was the blatant lies about the WMDs. Also, I might add, the company Monsanto has a terrible record regarding honesty. Why is this relevant? (you may ask)..because, many of their people went in to government and visa versa. (google monsanto revolving doors). My point is we just cannot trust politicians to tell the truth either in the US or the UK..anywhere in fact!

Yet again, you have no understanding of how science works. You lay out all kinds of weird theories about honesty in government, but the government doesn't control science. Science is science. If you want to figure out the orbit of, say, Neptune, buy a telescope and figure it out. The government has no jurisdiction on Neptune.

Originally posted by DeathShield
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

The north pole has started moving at a rate of 40 miles per year due to a core flux. If it were to keep moving at this rate it would take 310.75 years for it to reach the other side of the earth. I calculated this by dividing the flight distance from the northern to southern pole by 40.

Therefore the pole would not take "thousands of years" to shift it could happen well within the millenium.


news.nationalgeographic.com...

[edit] forgot to add source.

[edit on 4-1-2010 by DeathShield]

Did you calculate that at one steady speed, in a straight line, always going in one direction? Nature is never so exact. Movement of the poles the last time it switched took 1000s of years based on the physical evidence in the ground that was affected by it.

Let’s say for argument sake that the poles switch even faster than your calculations and it only takes them 200 years to swap, do you think it would affect life as we know it very much even at that fast rate?

[edit on 4-1-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by skem64
Xtro'....as for "physical proof" ...there have been thousands of mammoths found frozen in Siberia with "fresh" food still between their teeth and in their stomaches. In fact the meat (of these animals) was in such good condition it was fed to the huskey dogs. Also, the food in their stomaches' was of sub-tropical nature indicating that the Freeze happened fast and was continuous and that the animals were not native to that location.
Also, there have been fossil remains of animals and Man found together in caves. Though found in the same caves, these animals were from totally different parts of the world, predators and prey sharing the same place. These remains were free of teeth marks yet their bones were smashed.
This in itself is not actual proof of pole-shift but it does suggest a massive tsunami carried these animals and people to their death.

A tsunami on the scale of the one resulting from the earthquake off the coast of Indonesia (2004?) would not be nearly big enough to cause such devastation but consider this....If the rotation of our planet suddenly reversed it would firstly come to a stop. The land mass(es) would judder to a stop but the oceans would continue to move before comming to a stop. If the law of physics is universal then once our planet crosses the plain of the Milky Way (the winter solstice 2012 marks the point when we align with the Plain) the rotation of the planet could well spin in the opposite direction (as does water going down the plug hole in the southern hemisphere move in an oposite direction from water in the northern hemisphere (hurricanes too act this way))

Finally, there is the sub-tropical forest beneath the Antartic to consider. From core samples it has been shown that this land mass moved over 2000 miles to it's present position.

I agree that there are very fast things in Mother Nature that can and most likely did affect life on this planet. Earthquakes, Volcanoes and asteroids are the top three that will change the way we live extremely quickly. I will read the books, but I’m in a very isolated place on earth right now for the next six months and I don’t have access to very much, but I might be able to download them. With that said, I don't find pole shifting as a fast event, and I see Nibiru as science fiction more than anything else.

I’m more interested though in how he explains the orbit of a planet like Nibiru and how it seems to align with continuous rendezvous with close passes of earth. As I stated though some of his theories have been disproved already with more knowledge we have today, but that doesn’t mean all of it is.


[edit on 4-1-2010 by Xtrozero]

reply to post by Xtrozero


Yes you are right i did calculate it at steady speed (which it is supposedly moving at a steady speed). Let's say it does move faster? I do not know, we have never witnessed a rapid violent shift of the poles. My area of expertise is in music and computers but i had a huge interest in geology as a kid (still have my rock collection) . So unless there is a scientific precedence that confirms that pole shifts can induce a cataclysm of sorts i can not make a proper call. My best guess is that it is possible.

Originally posted by skem64
If the rotation of our planet suddenly reversed it would firstly come to a stop. The land mass(es) would judder to a stop but the oceans would continue to move before comming to a stop. If the law of physics is universal then once our planet crosses the plain of the Milky Way (the winter solstice 2012 marks the point when we align with the Plain) the rotation of the planet could well spin in the opposite direction (as does water going down the plug hole in the southern hemisphere move in an oposite direction from water in the northern hemisphere (hurricanes too act this way))

Wow, somehow I missed that you said this. The planet is not going to stop spinning and start spinning in the other direction, regardless of any pole shift--these two things are unrelated. The rotation of our planet is from the inertia that remains from when the solar system was created (and all of the chaos that ensued thereafter). There is simply nothing that could cause the rotation of the planet to suddenly stop. Or start rotating the other direction.

Further, if our planet did (magically) come to a stop, I'm not sure why you think the land masses would be unaffected. If our planet stopped suddenly, it would tear itself apart--a tsunami would be the worst of our worries. If it slowed to a stop, the water would be slowing down along with everything else, and we wouldn't notice anything (except for the whole days getting longer, and falling toward the sun, and dying).

The scenario you propose is, simply, impossible. No combinations of factors could come together to cause this, according to the fact that "the laws of physics is [sic] universal."

Originally posted by DeathShield
My best guess is that it is possible.

Yep, its that way for everyone....