Murdering muslims Slaughter Christian For Not Converting To islam

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Back up a bit, I don't think you are still getting the whole picture.

I'm a Christian but I don't go to church and I certainly don't thump my Bible.
Now if I were to commit an act of murder for what ever reason, love or hate, would I be doing it in the name of religion just because I called myself a Christian?
No

I am with you so far.

Likewise, if these people kill an abortion doctor or a gay, they are doing it more so in the name of what is stronger in their heart, which is usually HATE.

But they say it is for Christianity so who are you to judge their motives?

Being Christian only happens to be secondary.

When dealing with radicals, sure. The same applies to Muslims then.

Muslims proudly kill in the name of religion, foremost, because that is what's strongest in their heart, and if the infidel happens to be gay or atheist they just smile a little bigger.

LOL. OK. If you say so. So when Christians commit murder and SAY IT IS IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD, they are mistaken and just need to look deeper into their heart and see that they meant hate, not god.

But...Muslims who do the same thing are just being honest.

LOL. Interesting logic at work in this thread.

Killing in the name of God
Not hard to find a headline really.

lets not forget our christian friends who are all ready to build the new temple on the mount, in fact many christians are really eager to usher in the second coming of Jesus and leaders are willing to send coutries to war to help this along under different names.

Remember Afghanistan, this was a revenge attack apparently against 9/11, to remove the taliban from controling and to get women their rights again.

Isn't that all about killing a group because of their religion now?
The US is describes as a Christian country isnt it?

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by infolurker

 

...... crickets ........

That was very well said.

Which part? Where he said that it was actually cultural and not religious at all - the point I was already adhering to...or when he contradicts himself by saying we need to stop being so PC and basically just blame the religion anyway?

reply to post by Lillydale

Are those same "in the US" Muslims going to Christian churches killing Christians?

Does that matter if Christians are the way you say they are?

Which part

I didn't disect it into parts, I merely proclaimed it to be very well said and that it was.
I'll put it here.

Christian murders - just some guy murdering people, no reflection on Christianity, move along, nothing to see here.

What makes this just some guy murdering people Christian in your mind?


[edit on 29-12-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Are those same "in the US" Muslims going to Christian churches killing Christians?

Does that matter if Christians are the way you say they are?

All I can really say is um....huh? I am completely missing your point or actual question here given what I have actually said. Could you please clarify?

Originally posted by randyvs

I didn't disect it into parts, I merely proclaimed it to be very well said and that it was.

I know, that was why I pointed out it's contradictory nature. I was curious which part was well said because it simply cannot be both.

reply to post by Lillydale


Look, What I said was the insane culture of death promoting "Honor Killings" are cultural in origin BUT are now being promoted by Islam. That is not a contradiction.

www.jihadwatch.org...

No passage in the Koran discusses honor killings, but Muslim clerics justify them and secular Muslims either do not punish them or pass laws to mitigate punishment for them. With this, Muslims make honor killings a part of Islam.

Honor killings are justified under Islam in some Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia. For example, tenth-grade textbooks teach Saudi children that it is permissible to kill adulterers. In April 2008, a girl was killed by her father for talking to a boy on Facebook, an online social networking website. A leading Saudi cleric, Sheikh Ali al-Maliki, was outraged that girls had access to such websites where they could post pictures of themselves and otherwise "behave badly," but showed no concern over the girl actually killed.

Honor killings are justified as a necessary part of culture in other Muslim countries such as Jordan, which is technically a secular kingdom with a representative parliament. In 2001 King Abdallah presented a bill outlining stiff penalties for honor killings, but parliament rejected it, stating, "it [punishing honor killings] would encourage adultery and create new social problems." Four years later, honor killings accounted for one-third of all violent deaths in Jordan in 2005, where perpetrators received as little as six months in prison under the penal code.

Secular Iraq offers no punishment. Consider the following anecdotal evidence. This year, a 17-year-old named Rand Abdel-Qader was killed by her father because she had a crush on a British soldier. The arresting Iraqi sergeant stated that "not much can be done when we have an ‘honor killing' case. You are in a Muslim society and women should live under religious laws." The father also killed his wife, who left him after the murder of their daughter. He will not be prosecuted for either murder in Iraq.

Leaving honor killings at the doorstep of illiterate villagers, as Jasser does, ignores the problem on a humane level in favor of intellectual debate. The more secular, educated elites of Muslim countries may not be so backward as to commit such crimes themselves, but they know it is happening and prefer to look the other way. The upper and middle classes have a responsibility as civic and political leaders to defend women through education, the law, and enforcement of meaningful punishments. The "Qatif Girl" case in Saudi Arabia is a good example. Attorney Abdul Rahman al-Lahem represented a gang-rape victim who was punished for being with non-related men (the rapists) without a chaperone. Al-Lahem lost his license for bringing the case to the media. Following international pressure, the disciplinary committee at the Justice Ministry in Riyadh agreed to return it.

Irshad Manji's analysis hit closer to the truth, but is incomplete. By bringing in Catholic honor killings a century ago, Manji throws in the "you too" defense — the "you" being the West — and implies that such murders will fall out of favor as societies modernize and become more secular.

Neither Jasser nor Manji addresses the issue of accountability. Chaudhry Rashad was not raised in a vacuum. If moderates reinforce the line that honor killings are "dripping" with Allah or are part of Eastern culture, those prone to such violent acts will continue on the same path. No Muslim will claim theological authority to enforce change from the mosque. Nor will Muslims be forced to act now if the implication from Manji is that culture takes centuries to evolve. But if everyone starts pointing the finger at Muslim society collectively and asks, "why do you let this happen?" maybe change will finally come.

Such reorientation away from divine "Islam" to fallible, human "Muslims" would move violence such as honor killings from the margins of society into the spotlight.

This will allow the current tangential debate of whether such killings are religious or cultural to finally end so we can focus on the girls who continue to be killed daily.

And for my comparison of the US ... well supposedly the U.S. is the most Christian nation so let's compare the most "Christian" nation with the most "Sharia law" nations when it comes to religious tolerance.

As I stated before... It is what it is. Time to stop playing PC games and address the issues.

reply to post by infolurker

Look, What I said was the insane culture of death promoting "Honor Killings" are cultural in origin BUT are now being promoted by Islam. That is not a contradiction

There truly is a culture of death that this can be blamed on instead of any religion.

There was a culture of death in roman times. The coliseum.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by Lillydale

 

Look, What I said was the insane culture of death promoting "Honor Killings" are cultural in origin BUT are now being promoted by Islam. That is not a contradiction.

Your entire statement that this is cultural, NOT RELIGIOUS is why it is ok to blame all muslims is wholly contradictory in nature whether you agree with it or not. You said it, not me.

And for my comparison of the US ... well supposedly the U.S. is the most Christian nation so let's compare the most "Christian" nation with the most "Sharia law" nations when it comes to religious tolerance.

What is so Christian about the U.S. exactly? The strip clubs, casinos, bars, prostitutes, porn, serial killers, etc... There is very little about the U.S. that is Christian aside from the badge it tries to show the world.

There is no need to compare countries when attacking all Muslims since they are all over the world, same as Christians.

Again, this did not happen in the U.S. I am not talking about the U.S. Please stop with your attempt to deflect.

As I stated before... It is what it is. Time to stop playing PC games and address the issues.

Which of your issues do you feel needs to be addressed? The cultural problem or the religious one? You seem to be confused.

reply to post by the_denv




Oh really eh?


i wish i could offer you a trip to Bosnia and see how
muslims there are treating other class society races!


They are threatening people to covert to islam or eles something bad will happen to them, if they dont.

how long are you going to defend them?


The only thing i hate i here on ATS is the Christian hate.



Hoesntly with u?

[edit on 29-12-2009 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

Another point

each time an article gets posted like this, you will awalys
attack Christians and say oh ya they do it to.



[edit on 29-12-2009 by Agent_USA_Supporter]

Originally posted by the_denv
Christians do the same to Muslims.

Both parties are both mad in the head, arguing and killing over fiction. At this pace I cant see humans evolving for at least a thousand years.

Just wondering, have you heard anything about any Crusades going on in the Middle East lately? Now let's say the word JIHAD. If you are conscious, you may have heard this word in the news again and again over the past THIRTY YEARS.

reply to post by butcherguy


So which jihads are about converting Christians to Islam and which jihads are about getting foreigners off of their land? Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by Lillydale
reply to post by butcherguy

 

So which jihads are about converting Christians to Islam and which jihads are about getting foreigners off of their land? Thanks in advance!

Who are the foreigners in Bosnia? Jihad means Holy War..... not really about land ownership anyway. They are killing the unbelievers that refuse to convert. That is not really very tolerant, is it?

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by IntastellaBurst

 

It appears that Murder "Can" be a sin depending on the "recipient".
www.dianedew.com...

On Murder and Violence:

Islam both allows and forbids murder and violence, depending on who is the recipient of the act.

Allowed:

* "Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme." (Koran 8:37)
* The Koran instructs not to make friendship with Jews and Christians (Koran 5:51) but to war against them: "When the Sacred Months are over, kill those who ascribe partners to God wheresoever ye find them; seize them, encompass them, and ambush them; then if they repent and observe prayer and pay the alms, let them go their way (Koran 4:5). "Fight against those who believe not in God nor in the Last Day, who... refuse allegiance to the True Faith from among those who have received the Book, until they humbly pay tribute out of hand." (Koran 9:29) Note: These verses distinguish between warfare against pagans, and against Jews and Christians.[17]
* "...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (Koran 2:191); "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" (Koran 9:5); "murder them and treat them harshly" (Koran 9:123).
* "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (Koran 69:30-37)
* "Strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (Koran 47:4).
* "Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers"; "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (Koran 8:12; cp. 8:60).
* "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern against them. Their abode is Hell - an evil refuge indeed" (Koran 9:73).
* "slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace..." (Koran 5:34).
* "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (Koran 22:19-22)

Forbidden:

* "And slay not the soul which God has forbidden except for the just cause..." (Koran 17:33)
* "...If anyone killed a person not in retaliation for murder or to spread mischief in the land, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind. And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole of mankind" (Surah Al-Maaida 5:32)
* "Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors." (Koran 2:190)
* "…when it is said to them; 'Make not mischief on the Earth', they say; 'We are only peace makers'. Indeed they are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive it not" (Surah Al-Baqarah 2:11-12)
* The Prophet Mohamad said to his army before going to a

And your source for this is DIANEDEW.COM ? Wow talk about a reliable website. Here's a suggestion: Why don't you pick up an OFFICIAL copy of the QU'ran and read it yourself. You know, try to draw your own conclusion instead of letting other biased parties mold your thoughts and behaviour.

[edit on 29-12-2009 by RamsOnTop]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by RamsOnTop]

[edit on 29-12-2009 by RamsOnTop]

I screwed up my reply. Sorry everyone, I'm still a novice.

My reply to infolurker's claims was:

And your source for this is DIANEDEW.COM ? Wow talk about a reliable website. Here's a suggestion: Why don't you pick up an OFFICIAL copy of the QU'ran and read it yourself. You know, try to draw your own conclusion instead of letting other biased parties mold your thoughts and behaviour.

reply to post by RamsOnTop
I want to get a copy of the Quran, but I want the real thing, not a cleaned-up, 'no killing infidels' version. How can I be sure I am getting the right thing?



[edit on 29-12-2009 by butcherguy]

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


What do you know about Bosnia? Where's your source? Who is killing whom over there?

Don't talk about things and places you know nothing about.

The simple fact is that while there is no justification within the Christian/Judaic faith for the murder of those of other religions, there is an absolute commandment to do so in the Islamic faith.

Yes there is Violence in both the Bible (old testament only) and The Torah, those incidents however were specific situations against specific peoples and do not serve as commandments for the faithful to abide by in all times against all peoples. The Koran however contains numerous non-temporal (IE not limited to a specific period in time) commandments to engage in exactly this type of behavior. When a christian kills an abortion doctor he or she is betraying his/her Religious duty, when a Muslim kills an infidel he/she is fulfilling his/her religious duty.

That's the difference.

[edit on 12/29/2009 by Doglord]

reply to post by Violater1


Murdering someone for not converting to a religion in the name of peace is contradictory to say the least.... i can't comprehend the mentality of some....

reply to post by Doglord


Again, SHOW ME where in the Qu'ran such a commandment is stated!