Holocaust survivor stages hunger strike for Gaza

Originally posted by downisreallyup

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
reply to post by felonius

If the world wants to agree NOW that this policy of no land disputes is how things will be done, then fine... and that goes for all the big guys too, like the USA, Russia, China, etc. Remember, Israel ALREADY gave back the Sinai Peninsula, which they also won fair and square in a war. Why should they have to do what no other victorious country has had to do? Show me ONE OTHER country that has EVER given back land that they won in a war. I'd be interested to see you try.

Hmmm
West germany (US/UK) back to the germans
East germany(soviet) back to germany.
Half of the british empire back to the native population (India, South Africa, Kenya, Tanganyika renamed Tanzania, Rhodesia renamed Zimbabwe etc etc etc
Hong kong to the chinese.

Unless you want to be pendantic and state that taking over a country with vastly superior forces is not war.

With Isreal you also forget that there are UN resolutions which makes their actions illegal. However they get away with it due to US support.

reply to post by mmiichael


I love history Michael as you well know. You can learn so much from it. Let’s fast forward 36 years to the early 1980’s and check back in with those crazed rabid anti-Semitic pseudo intellectual CIA folks again educated at those disreputable universities like Harvard and Yale and all there crazy conspiracy theories shall we?

Let’s as we marvel to learn just what makes Iraq so darn important that it has been embroiled in warfare of some type or another since the early days of the Iranian Revolution 29 years ago.

Oh my it appears the boys at Langley have decided that neutralizing Iraq in perpetuity is the key to maintaining Israeli Military Dominance in the Middle East! Wow!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f352af454214.jpg[/atsimg]

Now of course these poor undereducated malcontents at the CIA rife with inferiority complexes and delusions of grandeur and their love for conspiracies makes them I imagine entirely discountable. Who cares if these are the guys tasked with carrying out most of the world’s conspiracies?

Yet it sure makes for some interesting reading and makes one wonder just why America is sacrificing its son’s and daughters and treasury and mortgaging the future of generations to come. Seems all this helps the Israelis more than anyone! Imagine that.

Of course I know what you are thinking it’s so hard to interpret these documents written in black and white specifically for the President of the United States. No doubt only a keen and worldly Zionist thinking mind can decipher them appropriately for the Gentiles of the World. That’s probably why Rahm Emanuel is White House Chief of Staff.

Let’s let the good folks of ATS see from themselves from these dubious sources in Langley foisted on the President of the United States.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e19e1a4147de.jpg[/atsimg]

Of course I am just a pseudo intellectual rabid anti-Semite frothing at the mouth and entirely devoid of the true intelligence and acumen to decipher such things in my own genteel gentile ways as flawed as they might be, but I have to say it looks pretty darn damning to me!

It really seems like back in 1980 the CIA decided the best way to ensure Israel’s Military Dominance in the Middle East was to keep Iraq in a perpetual state of disarray and conflict.

Of course that hasn’t come to pass has it Michael, and it’s a foolish notion to imagine we could better understand what’s happening in the world today and why by looking at yesterday first huh?

reply to post by mmiichael


For all the words that come out of your keyboard, you still can not or will not answer my question......

Do you believe God favors and made promises to one race of people over all others.


YES or NO

Whats wrong, you worried the answer will expose you for what you truly are ? A bigot.

What gets my goat is the complete lack of respect people like MMiichael show the very type of people who stopped the final solution.

People who question everything and make no apologise for evil, and refuse to back down even when they are being told to look the other way. People who will act under duress.


This lady is 100 times the person you will ever be Mmiichael. You are what is wrong with the world but this lady gives me hope.

Originally posted by thedeadtruth
reply to post by mmiichael

 

For all the words that come out of your keyboard, you still can not or will not answer my question......

Do you believe God favors and made promises to one race of people over all others.


YES or NO

Whats wrong, you worried the answer will expose you for what you truly are ? A bigot.

I ignored this adolescent question considering it not worth justifying with a response.

Are you trying to push that old anti-Semitic claim that Jews seriously feel above others and literally do consider themselves "The Chosen People?"
Just because someone transcribed it in some scroll written thousand of years ago? Anyone familiar with liturgical writings of the past is aware this sentiment - feeling uniqueness and special in the eyes of a deity is common to religions from native Indians to forgotten belief systems of the Middle East.

Do you expect intelligent worldly people take it to heart in dealing with others in the modern world?

Get a life.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I love history Michael as you well know. You can learn so much from it. Let’s fast forward 36 years to the early 1980’s and check back in with those crazed rabid anti-Semitic pseudo intellectual CIA folks again educated at those disreputable universities like Harvard and Yale and all there crazy conspiracy theories shall we?

Pal Proty.

Sorry for not addressing some questions. But you fail to deal with the real issues - so I've pretty much given up.

Let's really fast forward. Late December 2009.

Dopey kings, looney tunes Ayatollahs, cutthroat robber barons, still make life and death decisions for hundreds of millions of Muslims trapped in a miasma of the historical past. It doesn't work now and hasn't really for centuries. Populations have doubled, and then again.

People are already going hungy en masse in Muslim nations like Somalia, Sudan, Yemen. Money, entrepreneurship and brain power is fleeing.

Climate change, excessive competition for a rapidly dwindling food production capacity, disease, famine, are lurking. The Middle East is becoming an extension of Africa.

Solutions need to be implemented or there will be wars for survival.

Killing every Jew in Israel, inviting the 12th Imam, a major Jihad on the West, will not put more food in the mouths of a hundred million starving babies.

When and if the people of the Middle East decide they want to get off this rollercoaster heading towards death and destruction is the issue at hand.

The people harvesting the oil riches, the Saudi royals, have already made escape route nests in London, Texas, Virginia, France. The Ayatollahs may be preparing for a conflagration that will kill tens of millions of innocent Iranians.

I don't know. I do know as fascinating as it may be to study how and why this has all come to a head so quickly - the answers are in the present and the future.

The relevant question I see is - what is going to be done about the present day crisis in the Middle East?

You avoid this question trying to find factoidal historical evidence implicating Jews, CIA, NWO, or whoever. That may be entertaining on a conspiracy buff level of analysis, but it still doesn't address the needs of the hundreds of millions of Muslims who have been lead into a cultural and economic dead end by their bad choice of leadership.

Iran is in a critical corner with their chronically failing Islamic Revolution. What is the solution?

reply to post by mmiichael


Actually Michael I knew you wouldn’t be able to directly answer my questions or comment on my answers.

Last night you tried to explain that some questions were irrelevant regarding history because contextually we couldn’t understand the true implications of them at this point in time or even accurately really know what was going on way back then.

So what I simply did was show highly credible sources written in that period of time by Central Intelligence Agents for the President of the United States. They provide both context and accuracy by people who are paid to know what’s really going on in the world and report back on it.

They were written by people alive at the time and involved with events at the time, and the events just prior in that point of time.

What could anyone do in the face of irrefutable and rock solid sources utilized by the President of the United States himself other than to attempt to deflect away from them and still claim they are somehow irrelevant.

Ducking and weaving and trying to master the artful dodge is no easy task friend Michael. It also does nothing to help solve the world’s problems but perpetuates them. It is a pity that so many people feel compelled to avoid issues by simply imposing their own will and desire to dominate for the sake of their own agendas instead of acknowledging the root causes that lead to effect.

The world will simply not become a better place and continue to deteriorate and the human quality of life along with it through that foolish approach.

Mostly I chose to illustrate these things to display to any and all the real difference between a Jew, the noble woman on the hunger strike to highlight the plight of Gaza Palestinians and Zionists who would rather seize such opportunities to spread the propaganda of war and hate and religious xenophobia for the sake of power and greed.

You did an excellent job at helping me to highlight the differences between the two, and I thank you for that Michael!

After all, I do have you on my friends list for a reason!


[edit on 29/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

reply to post by mmiichael



So I guessed right, you will not answer my simple question. Just the same as any other bigot I have ever faced off to. I asked for your personal opinion, I did not ask for a history lesson.


Predictable and pathetic squirming from you though. It is almost like you guys follow a script.


Please note: My question was only asked because Zionists act in an supremacist way, not because of some ancient txt or religion. If the ancient txt or religious belief is the source of their deluded elitism then that is hardly my fault.

I am just calling a spade a spade.

She is really ignorant of the factors involved [ Gaza is Israeli territory from 3500 years ago and if the stupid PLO stopped attacking innocent Israelis with rockets and suicide bombers and behaved themselves like civilized humans they would do quite well there on occupied Jewish land] , but hey- makes good news for the warm fuzzy crowd .
y

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Mostly I chose to illustrate these things to display to any and all the real difference between a Jew, the noble woman on the hunger strike to highlight the plight of Gaza Palestinians and Zionists who would rather seize such opportunities to spread the propaganda of war and hate and religious xenophobia for the sake of power and greed.

You did an excellent job at helping me to highlight the differences between the two, and I thank you for that Michael!

After all, I do have you on my friends list for a reason!

Proty,

There are billions of people in the world. What some probably senile 85 year old Jewish woman says or does is anecdotal and inconsequential. It represents nothing except a minor human interest bit of fluff.

Try reading and placing in perspective accounts of a few million adolescent girls in North Africa and the Middle East - rape, mutilation, torture, disease, death. That is representative of something happening.

With your Jewish hatred fixation you'll never understand the Arabs calling themselves Palestinians in Gaza are not in plight of anything except bad leadership. They are financially better off, live longer, are healthier, and have a better future than 90% of the Muslims in the Middle East.

They are in a former British Protectorate that was occupied by Egypt for 19 years. After their failed attempts to exterminate the Jews, they were unwillin g to adjust to the new realities. There has been no genocide, no concentration camp, no deprivation of a homeland.

Just a few hundred thousand Muslims displaced as the consequence of ill-fated attempts to vanquish more prosperous neighbours. At least 20 million others have suffered the same fat. The Palestinians are the only ones anyone even remembers.

I'll cut short here again due to stuff going on in the household.

You're intelligent but unwilling to really look at history and culture. You want to cherry pick datum to show your hatreds have a basis. This is not the approach of people seeking knowledge. It is egotism. Others of like-mind will pick up on what you do and offer reinforcement. If you feel that's the best you can aim for in life. Good luck.

Write dry comedy with witty dialogue. Bigger and brighter audience for it than hate lit in drag as history.


M

Originally posted by mmiichael


There are billions of people in the world. What some probably senile 85 year old Jewish woman says or does is anecdotal and inconsequential. It represents nothing except a minor human interest bit of fluff.

Try reading and placing in perspective accounts of a few million adolescent girls in North Africa and the Middle East - rape, mutilation, torture, disease, death. That is representative of something happening.

Im thrilled to see you consider someone else MM , is this a new side to

You ?

Just 1 thing though, this thread is about that woman, who has

more moxy than your slander of her calls for.

Be nice if you started a thread about those african girls , but I some

how don't think you will.

reply to post by mmiichael

There are billions of people in the world. What some probably senile 85 year old Jewish woman says or does is anecdotal and inconsequential. It represents nothing except a minor human interest bit of fluff.

Oh Michael you dear man, you made me laugh so hard with this one!

My opening post on the front page of this thread clearly states this is how the Zionists would respond to this womans true warmth and human decency.

Pretty sad indeed that it would take senility to compell someone to such an act of human decency!

You have convinced me though through your statement, clearly the human race is beyond salvation.

Dear Santa please inject me with some Alien DNA next Christmas I promise to be a very good boy this year!

Originally posted by Sean48

Just 1 thing though, this thread is about that woman, who has

more moxy than your slander of her calls for.


The same two brain cell people comb the news or Hate sites to find new topics for threads. It seems more about getting those pointless points and non-existent star and flags than discussion.

Then the usual anti-American Jew haters come on board with the same twaddle.

No one seems interested in anything real.

This is becoming a kiddie site. I respond to the more outrageous posts that I come across while waiting on the phone or something.

There are some articulate knowledgeable people on ATS.

But as soon as Zionist, Israel, Gaza, Mossad, etc are in the subject they attract the same ol' haters and lamebrains. Who have nothing to contribute except their venom, bile, angst, outrage, etc.

reply to post by mmiichael


It is you spouting hateful things , i merely pointed out the thread was

about her .

A little self reflection sir, it is you who are the Hater

reply to post by mmiichael

But as soon as Zionist, Israel, Gaza, Mossad, etc are in the subject they attract the same ol' haters and lamebrains. Who have nothing to contribute except their venom, bile, angst, outrage, etc.

Laugh out loud Michael the worlds not out to get you or Israel. The reality is that people who can’t take constructive criticism should just stay out of the kitchen.

Ultimately your argument is that Israel, Zionism, Jews, and their collective policies are above and beyond approach and any one critical of them is some how tragically if not criminally deficient in some human grace or capacity.

That’s as tragically a flawed assertion as there ever was one. By your own words you are in essence saying that it is wrong to be critical of Israel and its policies and the only remedy is to simply slander and defame those who are.

A woman who lived through the dark days of the holocaust and Nazi Forced Labor Camps to survive the experience commits an act of compassion and empathy and sadly there are those on both sides of the issue who would exploit that purely to propagate hate and prejudices.

It takes two to tango and there are no innocents on this planet save the children and perhaps those very old people who revert back to a child like state.

As above so it is below, as in the beginning so it is in the end. Frankly the world would be far better off considering the unconditional love, empathy and compassion of children and lowly animals, for they know not the burden of these trespasses.

Sometimes fools rush in Michael were cowards and brave men alike fear to tread. Discretion is the better part of valor. Those with no honor die in shame, and those who live by the sword perish by it.

I think the point mmiichael misses here is we did not actually expect to get a meaningful conversation from you, well no more meaningful than anything you can get out of a supremacist bigot.

You were simply part of a lesson.....

To show the readers that people like you do exist, that they will try to justify evil acts, you are not figments of our imagination and its not a conspiracy theory. People like you pose a real threat to all of us, because I could have been born in Gaza.


Too predictable to be interesting......

Gotta love the " but look over there, that guys more evil-er " That's a new ploy. Not.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Sometimes fools rush in Michael were cowards and brave men alike fear to tread. Discretion is the better part of valor. Those with no honor die in shame, and those who live by the sword perish by it.

Proty you should compile all your catchy double-talk and market it as a rhetoric database.

Just mention anything and the appropriate platitude comes up "Love heals all wounds" "Wounds heal all love" - whatever. I think rock music lyric composers have had one of these.

Or some snippet of history can be dredged up to somehow push through some point.

After a year at looking at all these threads supposedly making inquiries on certain events it becomes clearer what they are created and who they attract. some nominal discussion that but really just new opportunities for the same contributors to disseminate their "Evil Zionists exploiting innocent Palestinians" messages. Facts and circumstance are mande irrelevant.

And after wading through a lot of verbiage of your particular contributions to get to the kernel, a conclusion is inescapable You really know next to nothing about the history of the Sinai and Israel beyond what little tidbits you can pull out of a hat to malign the efforts of Jews in Israel, Europe, America.

You will claim otherwise but the one-sidedness and agenda is clear.

Teenage conspiracists love to have a villain for their roleplaying games. Jews are convenient scapegoats. And there are enough Neo -Nazis out there doing the legwork. Every time a Jew spits on a Christain - it's time for an ATS thread. Everytime a Jewish little old lady giveds $50 to a Gaxa fund - it's time for an ATS thread.

If a Muslim government like in Sudan murders half a million of it's own people. Well that's not news. And they're probably just responding to Zionist outrages or something.

The perversion of history to somehow exonerate every Muslim on the planet and implicate every Jew that ever lived is mind-boggling.

More I could say. I doubt anyone's really listening or understanding.



[edit on 29-12-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael

As you have laboriously pointed out in detail - all Muslims are victims of Jewish plotting and conniving somehow.

No my friend Michael what I said was that the CIA as early as 1947 prior to Israeli independence opined that the creation of an Israeli State in the Middle East would ultimately lead to circumstances and situations where reasoned Arab Statesmen would be supplanted by “Chauvinists and Religious Radicals.”

This was back when the only Terrorists in town where the various Zionist factions fighting the British in Palestine and working to undo the U.N. Accords regarding the partition of Palestine.

Religious Radicals was used to more aptly describe the type of elements who would likely eventually come into play as traditional Statesmen were believed to have little chance of effecting the slowing of the growth of the Israeli nation and its likely attempts to dominate the entire Middle East landscape both politically and militarily.

It was believed that nothing would stop the Zionists from absorbing all of Palestine and offending the Arab State in that process.

As you yourself are often fond of saying the CIA felt in 1947 that despite some nationalistic and religious differences most of the Muslim Arab world could come together as one cohesive political entity in matters that concerned Arabs and Muslims.

The fact that the CIA believed that eventually if it sprang into existence that a Zionist State if it could survive would attain that dominating position and eventually absorb all of greater Palestine and potentially beyond led them to believe and state that reasoned Arab Statesmen would be unable to slow or retard that process and that ultimately that would cause a groundswell of religious radicalization taking over in order to preserve the Arab State from falling victim to this.

In other words the CIA saw from even before the Israeli’s state inception that it would lead to religious strife, wider spread fundamentalism and radicalization and those being primarily the only elements that would continue to seek a solution through the only avenue that would be left since Statecraft would have no effect, and that is of course violence.

Violence that often leads to terrorism because of a huge disparity in military parity because just as foretold Israel did reach that position of absolute military dominance and beyond the point where conventional forces could unseat its position so that the far more populace Arabs and Muslims could dominate the region instead of Israel dominating it.

It’s actually all a logical conclusion and sound thinking.

Simply we put we knew from the very get go that an Israeli State would lead to Islamic and Arab violence against us here in the United States as a supporter of Israel.
It is not easy to take a bone away from one dog without those dogs fighting over it and getting your hand bit in the process Michael, and this is in essence what happened in the U.S. aiding Israel to achieve Military and Political Independence in the Middle East.

I would like to say that any fool should have been able to figure that out but sadly we live in a world where the propaganda and emotional pressure is so intense that most people are completely devoid of any shred of common sense or logical rational thought.

Politically Correct is not a Buzz Word by accident you know!

See Michael this is hard for some people to fathom but I actually love everyone. You too my friend, and I know that there is such a thing as cause and effect.

I know how easy it is to push the right button to get people to zig when they themselves would prefer and be better served to zag.

I want to see everyone live in peace and harmony and be who they want to be in a world free of persecution.

I only see human beings and the human condition. Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhism and the like are simply directions, black and white are simply hues, we are all my friend human beings.

United as human beings we will stand, divided we will fall. Divisions can only be rectified through addition not subtractions. We must all learn to celebrate our differences and learn to respect them with out the need for dominance brought on by fear, insecurity or ones own lust for power and prestige.

It’s not about being anti-Jewish or pro-Arab or pro-Muslim it’s about being pro love.

You see Michael the more love you give the more love you will find.

I know someday never comes Michael but I shall forever have that dream of a world where love and compassion and empathy and wisdom reign, not violence, jealousy, fear and greed.

Sadly in that endeavor I encounter people and entities and nations that are part of the problem but refuse to believe that they are. You see they believe everyone else but them is responsible and that no matter what action that they take it is entirely justified and correct and innocent.

Sometimes they even pretend this when they know it’s not the truth.
You know why that little old lady is really participating in that hunger strike Michael?

Because at that age and that point in life you stop caring what other people think about you and wish for you and just do what you feel is right and noble with that little bit of time you have left.

At that point there is no need left to make excuses for things, just that desire to do the right thing.

How sad it is that most people have to reach the twilight of their life before they can think and act in such terms.

I am interested in improving the human condition on this planet and that includes all humans good, bad or ugly for the reality is united we will all stand, divided as we all are we can but fall and at best crawl.

Those who don’t see themselves as part of the problem shall by extension never be part of the solution and we as a species shall be doomed to fall or at best crawl.

With much love.

Your friend Protoplasmic Travler

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

No my friend Michael what I said was that the CIA as early as 1947 prior to Israeli independence opined that the creation of an Israeli State in the Middle East would ultimately lead to circumstances and situations where reasoned Arab Statesmen would be supplanted by “Chauvinists and Religious Radicals.”

Proty my agape love,

Who give a flying fish what the CIA said or thought 62 years ago?

The CIA is denounced, proven out of touch with reality, misguided, woefully wrong, lying, self-serving, and on and on. But when the Neo-Nazis discover some crummy ancient quote of them - suddenly they're prophetic.

They probably also said Soviet Communism would be ruling the world by now.

All we can see in looking at the Middle East since then, after being handed a boon of trillions worth of oil reserves flowing under their feet - is hoarding of wealth by a handful of families and abject failure in terms of progress and leadership.

Being primitive warlord tribesmen back then was still charming. Now it's gruesome.

After much blood, sweat and tears, a few million Jews managed to carve out a small but viable niche out of the armpit of the Middle East. No vast amounts of oil, friendly neighbours, an even break form anyone. Just dedication, hard work, ingenuity, perserverence.

American and European leftys with resentment agendas piss on them at every opportunity. Snuggle up to to every whining Muslim with a keyboard or camera. They're always victims of the Evil Zionists. Never victims of their own ineptitude.

Admitting that would strike too close to the Real Truth. The never asked question. Why the Middle East has been dysfunctional for a thousand years.















[edit on 29-12-2009 by mmiichael]

Michael...

Forgive me if I take Mrs Epsteins world view over yours.

You seem confused and lack commitment, not even being able to answer a simple yes or no question. A failure and coward to your own cause.

She has balls you wish you had.