How i clobbered every bureaucratic cash confiscatory agency known to man

You are absolutely right and dont let these guys stop you from trying to gain freedom, even if it is in steps. This is by far not the first i have heard of this. It is true that you can do it but like stated before, there are consequences. great site is www.creditorsincommerce.com...
thanks for the like as i am not a very smart guy and have not attempted any of the affore mentioned procedures. Also check about redeming your birth certificate. With contract law, you can put a claim against neaqrly anything and acquire it through contract acquisition. S&F

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by Pappa_Bear

 

what your saying is that same as "yeah we know its wrong and yeah there are no laws that state we have to pay tax, but i cant be bothered with the hassle of dealing with the man when he busts down my door"

So i wonder where you will draw the line? Your already paying money to a government funded mafia.

How much more crap are you going to take before you say NO?

The reason we are in this mess is beacuse of complacency. I seriously doubt we are going to fix the problem with more of the same.

Thanks for trying to put words in my mouth that I did not say nor did I imply. You asked questions, I gave you answers in which I have seen happen for tax evasion. It's not whether you will take the crap or not; but the fact that you will take it whether you like it or not. Either take it peacefully or they will force it on you.

You might get away with not paying taxes for a few years(so you think); in reality you are being setup so that when the tax man comes a-knockin, they already have you by every stitch you think you own. The only known way to get out of taxes in the US is to get off the grid-completely. Of course that also means that you cannot own property to be self sufficient. Thousands live this way every year-we call them homeless-some are by choice and some are by force. Take your pick, an enforced tax payer, or homeless.

It's already a proven fact that unless you can get the vast majority of Americans to agree and stick together on even one single issue, nothing is going to change; except what the government wants to change.

p.s. before you can put more words in my mouth I did not say - I did not say that We as Americans cannot eventually change things, nor did I say that I'm not interested in changing things, nor did I say that I am just willing to lay down and accept or die. I am saying that currently Americans as a whole cannot and agree on even one single issue long enough to effectively cause positive change as of yet. And for these necessary changes to take effect, it will need the whole of American public to agree and stand together.

And as another poster pointed out "precedent law" I believe comes into effect in this topic.

edit to add: With the current economic situation, I would also think that it may be even more difficult to get away from Taxation, and even far more difficult to defend oneself against charges of tax evasion levied by the Government or IRS on behalf of the Government.

[edit on 27/12/2009 by Pappa_Bear]

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by dereks

 

here are some questions you should ask your friendly neighborhood IRS agent.

1. Where is the law requiring Americans to pay income tax?
It comes into your driveway in several unmarked cars with many booted feet

2. Their regulatory authority and delegated authority to address him
As soon as you go "What" you are now a criminal for resisting arrest, Authority now granted to the Law

3. The law which the contract with both signatures on it.
I think there are more than 2 signatures, we have more than 2 theives(congressmen) in office

4. The law which made the IRS part of the Constitution
The Constitution does not condone theivery by the Government, so please do not confuse the Constitution with the IRS; mistake made by many

5. The agent’s oath of office, and the contract with both signatures on it.
What contract, I suppose you mean the contract with your name on it, You Breathe US air, live on US soil, that is all the contract that the IRS needs to steal your hardearned money in order for the Government to repay the interest on the loans the Fed made to the Government

please provide me with those details if you think they exist

Also to note, since the IRS and income tax has been not only an accepted law, but enforced compliance as well for several decades, I think you will find that to live without paying income tax is like living in FantasyLand, not going to happen without major consequences.

p.s. Key to note is I use the words "accepted law", which in no way denotes that there is infact any constitutional rights, or Public Laws that are legaly binding.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by TiM3LoRd]

The questions don't matter to the IRS. They are administering the 'harvesting' of the fruits of the labor of State owned slaves, and that is done under the 'property right' of the corporate State. As an 'unalienable right', the 'property right' prevails over all forms of law. The question would be: "Is it lawful for a corporate (fictional) body to have or make use of unalienable rights?"

The 'all caps' spelling of the name has proven to be completely useless in the US court system as a defense, because, even if defined in law dictionaries, it has no bearing on a 'property right' issue.

People get themselves into the 'slave status' by allowing themselves to be identified as being one and the same as the legal name. Two factors in law then allows the corporate State to impose involuntary servitude on the man who uses the State owned name: 1. By attaching oneself to State property, the legal maxim, 'accessio cedit principali' kicks in - an accessory attached to a principal becomes the property of the owner of the principal -
with that principal property being the State owned name. Remember, your
parents gave you, and thus the bestowed name, to the State when they registered your birth.

#2 is the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution. Since you, as an adult man (m or f) use the State owned name without State authorization, you have committed theft by unauthorized use of State property. That is a felony. And since a corporate State is a make-believe ship at sea, you are in maritime jurisdiction prevails where the charged is guilty unless proven innocent. Now. read the 13th Amendment. The 13th was added after the 1841 anti-slave case - the name something like the Ambgen case.

reply to post by Pappa_Bear


so whats your solution then? The point of me posting this online is to get as many people informed as possible. How is that going to happen unless people talk about this issue. Throwing your hands in the air and saying well there is nothing we can do till the American people come together is admitting defeat unless you personally are doing something to change that.

I didnt put words in your mouth im just pointing out the only logical conclusion to your train of thought.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


And there you go again stating that I am just wanting to throw my hand in the air, I am discussing the problem, and I am stating what I think is the only way to begin working on it, and until we can get the vast majority of Americans to agree on something long enough to actually work it out to the end, there will be no positive change, yet negative change I feel you fail to see is also working in our favor as it is beginning to wake people up.

Logical conclusion, you did not come up with any logical conclusion from my statements by implying that I meant or said anything else other than what i did. here's another little tip to help with some of the problems in getting Americans to stand together and agree on something. Quit inserting your ideas, thoughts and opinions into others words and take what they have actually said at face value first and think on it, afterwards when ones actions does not equal their words then you may begin make claim that they are of forked tongue.

Yes you did imply other ideas and state them as your logical conclusion based on your personal opinion taken from what i wrote instead of taking what I wrote at face value and going from there. However you were kind enough to ask if your opinion was correct in which I must solidly state NO, your logical conclusion is incorrect, but is based on your own personal opinion, and somehow you failed to see the fact that what you state after your logical conclusion is what I had already stated.

the real logical conclusion:
1. At this time there is no legal recourse for an American to enjoy the life, liberties and freedoms that we still have and get away without paying income taxes via the IRS.

2. To change the above conclusion will require the active attention of all Americans as a whole, which at this current time appears to be the biggest hurdle.

3. If we continue to talk and attempt to reach others, and with the inevitable impact from all the negative effects from the ruling powers, Americans will wake up and begin to stand together as a whole.


4. Take ones word's at face value first before inserting your own views, opinions and ideas as statement of fact, thereby preventing the expansion of division between Americans. Those that rule know how very easy and how very real this dividing of groups of peoples can be. Look at the 3 main political parties we currently have, now how many divisions within each party are there? Most divisions are based on the simplest disagreements- by inserting ones own opinion, idea or view into another's words thereby changing the concept of the original idea to cause it to be seen in an negative light.

If you will reread my post, you will then be able to see that your original opinions are the same as mine, I just stated them in different words with pretty much the same meaning. The implication of negative or positive emotional attachment to the way an idea is stated is psychology 101

Hope this debate has helped you to learn to read what another has to say instead of reading into what another has to say.

p.s. also to note I appreciate you asking if your conclusions are correct instead of just ending a debate with what you feel is your logical conclusion, if only more would be willing to open themselves and enjoy a good debate.

Here some great links on Taxation laws, ratification and legality
TruthInTaxation
TheLawThat NeverWas

This goes to show that the legality, which has been questioned, does not matter to the courts or the Government. The movement against Income Taxation has been slowly building, however what one must understand; the Government cannot allow this movement unheeded, so far this movement has been blocked in the legal system, thereby creating "the law of precedent" for Governmental Income Taxation.

This movement against income taxation has also been attacked by the Government in a more devious manner, I am sure you have noticed in the last couple of years some very high profile and public figures including actors, CEO's of major corporations, and Elected Officials have been arrested, properties seized and found guilty of Tax Evasion, and subsequently sentenced. Consider the impact that these high profile and public figures having been convicted of tax evasion on the slow moving movement against income taxation.

It is not for the fact that we are not trying to effect change, information is now quickly and easily found for the common citizen, this brings awareness, as well the Government knows this and is combating by enforcement. Many Americans like us will continue to speak up, tell others, and just by the virtue of Governmental enforcement, will bring more people to look at the issues.

Hope this helps clarify how the Government can get away with this, and has gotten away with this since 1913. A pretty big precedent to overcome.
Income Tax

edit to add: One must stop to consider the ramifications; if our congress was to certifiably ratify the 16th Amendment today or in the near future; the Government would be admitting that the Amendment was not truly law and be responsible for repayment of all Income tax collected since 1913 with interest. This would bring this Nation to its knees overnight, the damage to all levels of infrastructure would be immense.

IMHO we are better off to push for new legislation and laws to either dispose of Federal Income Tax resorting to state Income Tax for near community financial support, or to impose a Flat Income Tax applicable to all.

[edit on 28/12/2009 by Pappa_Bear]

I agree that this is a huge problem in the fact that it has been going on for so long and people are brainwashed into thinking there is no alternative. I didn't mean to extrapolate or attach meaning to your comments I just didn't understand the direction you were coming from. I see so many posters just barge into a topic and just flatly proclaiming a subject topic or story pointless without fully understanding what the issue is. Obviously it's an uphill battle and they won't go down easy or without a fight because of the legal ramifications and the money they woul have to pay back.

Accept my apology for misinterpreting your post. Having said that negative or positive we need to bring this issue to a national level. And the only way I belive that is going to happen os though word of mouth and emails. The mainstream media will never cover it for obvious reasons. So pass on the word and let's get this ball rolling.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


No worries, as you see I didn't get mad, I understand misintrepretations, we all do that on a daily basis. As you can see we are on the same page, and have the same concerns for this nation and the people that make up the citizenry.

Don't even bother letting the nay-sayers on this thread hijack it by whining that it's not real. They're just taking the attention off the subject of the thread. It's good, useful info and if they don't want to use any of it then that's their problem. The truth is though they are really just here to get their rocks off telling YOU you can't do that because they don't have the brain power to beat the system. Good post OP!

[edit on 29-12-2009 by Redwookieaz]

I just love the nay-sayers - STUPID sheep! That is why they are in the predicament that they are in. They have faith in an authority over them that doesn't even exist! I've read her book - about a dozen times! I've researched just about every claim she makes. Some interpretations are a bit questionable but easily argued and even then, it doesn't change the general gist of it all. The secret is to become a Freeman On The Land and gain control of your corporate entity. So many of these clowns that want to deny, deny, deny do not even recognize that they are slave to the Uniform Commercial Code by their own doing and that have freely abrogated all of their Common Law rights.

Any doubts? Just look into why some courts are called Courts of Common Pleas and not Courts of Common Law! While you're at it, look into why you cannot claim "innocence" in court, only "guilty" or "not guilty".

In my opinion, some people just deserve the prisons that they live in!

Originally posted by zombiemann
I for one would love to see a case where someone actually got out of paying income tax. One very important thing in our judicial system is a little thing called precedence. By paying taxes even once in your life, you are setting a precedent to continue to pay them regardless of legality.


Edit to add www.usconstitution.net...
Yea, its right there in the constitution of this once great nation. The government CAN make us pay taxes.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by zombiemann]

Here is someone getting out of court. But its from the uk.

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

Aaron Russo's final film is his warning to the world about the evolution of the United States of America into a fascist state. Starting with his discovery of the unlawfulness of the income tax, Aaron covers the elite class crimes against the common culture and warns against the potential slave state future.

I recommend this film from Aaron Russo.
It answers a lot of questions people might have on the subject.

Originally posted by kozmo
I just love the nay-sayers - STUPID sheep!

That is why they are in the predicament that they are in. They have faith in an authority over them that doesn't even exist!

I've read her book - about a dozen times! I've researched just about every claim she makes. Some interpretations are a bit questionable but easily argued and even then, it doesn't change the general gist of it all. The secret is to become a Freeman On The Land and gain control of your corporate entity. So many of these clowns that want to deny, deny, deny do not even recognize that they are slave to the Uniform Commercial Code by their own doing and that have freely abrogated all of their Common Law rights.

Any doubts? Just look into why some courts are called Courts of Common Pleas and not Courts of Common Law! While you're at it, look into why you cannot claim "innocence" in court, only "guilty" or "not guilty".

In my opinion, some people just deserve the prisons that they live in!

The harsh side of living imprisoned is most folks don't even know they are jailed. TPTB have written and passed so many laws in so many forms that one cannot represent one's self in most legal matters. The commoner is at a steep disadvantage right from the womb.

OP, I want to share with you an eye-opener I had last week. I was scanning a buyers listings on eBay, a book seller offering shipping price breaks if you bought multiple titles. This one seller had a few thousand listings of used books at low prices.

I was at first amused, then puzzled, by the many titles having to do with so many ATS threads. All sorts of political opinions, conspiracies and theories, TPTB, multiples books on banking and investments gone wrong, on and on it went. Many of these books were authored by well known people. It got me to thinking.

Writing a book is a huge project taking much time, work and commitment. Each of these books represented hard work and firm beliefs being backed by a publisher gambling on the success of the book. And it's probably safe to say there were many similar books that never made it to the print press.

It seemed to me that with all sorts of people writing books on everything people see or think they see going on around them, as a country America should be one very well informed mass. But the only time I hear someone mention a book in my life is when someone is pimping their new title on a TV late night talk show.

I think we have a lot more power than we are taking advantage of. People do need to be made aware of the books on the market, and we have to start taking the information in. Keep spreading the word that the word is out there. Look around, there are a lot of good bargain books sellers on the net. Knowledge is Power: Buy A Book !