Obamacare Slaps $15,000 Annual Fee on Middle Class Families

reply to post by Oreyeon


Uh. it passed already, on Christmas eve. they just need to get the finished product to the president.

new.khastv.com...

Now that the senate's version of the health care reform bill has passed it will move to conference committee where members of the House and Senate will work out a final compromise bill.

Merry Christmas!

The house version of the bill was passed on November 7th, now they get to do the back door deals to get a "compromise bill" where they ultimately get everything they want. And come up with even more ways to screw Americans. Obama is eager to sign the finished bill, and wants it done quickly.

Up next, cap and trade energy reform, they wanted to get that done before Christmas as well.

This government has already spent or committed to spend trillions and are betting on revenues raised from health care reforms and energy reforms to pay for it.

Most of this will not kick in for four years, some of it even longer, but the taxes will be swift and painful.

What amazes me is how they claim that this was what ALL Americans wanted, that this will benefit ALL Americans.

When in reality the only beneficiary will be the government.

Al least there will be thousands of new government jobs created by these acts of legislation. The bureaucracies that will run health care alone are going to be massive.







[edit on 25-12-2009 by Walkswithfish]

reply to post by cybertroy


For the bit about Obama doing nothing about the Jobless rate..
I presume you mean other than:

The Stimulus Plan (A portion has been/is being used to retrain people)
Extensions on Unemployment benefits.
Special considerations to unemployed (Laid off mainly) for educational grants.

Education is obviously not a short term fix, but it is one that is very valuable long term. If the American work force is better educated they are more versatile, there is potential of shoring job losses to overseas.

As for short term solutions: I don't think there are any. It seems like companies are doing things to be spiteful-from not giving loans after promising to flaunting bonuses... I could see them laying off if only to ensure Obama is a one termer (theres a conspiracy for you ). There are a whole lot of companies reporting record profits-seemingly daily, yet lay-offs continue. This means the money is there but to hire more means less in short term earnings. Go figure. If true that there is intentional push back from corporations to ensure political meddling-then there is nothing that can be done. It will continue until someone more malleable takes office, presumably a Con-then magically the unemployment will start falling.

Otherwise:
Lets not forget that: Loss of jobs mean an almost garaunteed loss of health coverage. You seem to regard it as wasted on things like happy pills, which is certainly part of it. But what about all the people who are turned away at the ER-for not having coverage-with broken bones, or illnesses that are serious?

Then theres the fact that this economic crisis has been around a decade in the making. With how much resistance there is nothing can be accomplished in short time. If he were more adamant and pushy he would be labeled as even more of a "Socialist" or "Communist" or "Muslim" or "Fascist".. You see these used to describe today, all the while the same people claim simultaneously that "Not only is he incompetent and can't do anything but he is ruining the country with his policies!"


(The next paragraph is a general observation, not meant to be part of the reply as a point, or in anyway meaning I read this into what you typed etc.)
Basically: People projecting all this vitriol on him is clouding the actual issues. If people would just STFU and listen to what experts said instead of television talking heads, and then actually read the bills to see what is being done. A whole lot more progress would be made on every issue. In the meantime everything slams to a halt because of people freaking out over a bow to the Japanese Prime, or whether his wife is 'unamerican' because she wore a sleeveless shirt.

Basement science is bad enough, but it is shining perfection compared to the hell that Basement Politics and Policy creates.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
reply to post by Oreyeon

 

Uh. it passed already, on Christmas eve. they just need to get the finished product to the president.

new.khastv.com...

Now that the senate's version of the health care reform bill has passed it will move to conference committee where members of the House and Senate will work out a final compromise bill.

Merry Christmas!

The house version of the bill was passed on November 7th, now they get to do the back door deals to get a "compromise bill" where they ultimately get everything they want. And come up with even more ways to screw Americans. Obama is eager to sign the finished bill, and wants it done quickly.

Up next, cap and trade energy reform, they wanted to get that done before Christmas as well.

This government has already spent or committed to spend trillions and are betting on revenues raised from health care reforms and energy reforms to pay for it.

Most of this will not kick in for four years, some of it even longer, but the taxes will be swift and painful.

What amazes me is how they claim that this was what ALL Americans wanted, that this will benefit ALL Americans.

When in reality the only beneficiary will be the government.

Al least there will be thousands of new government jobs created by these acts of legislation. The bureaucracies that will run health care alone are going to be massive.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Yeah, course the last Regime did all this for the purpose of getting more coinage into oil-buddies pockets.
It certainly was not for the American people, let alone world safety. Course that was done with absolutely no plans on how to pay for it since those cronies would be out of office with their loot before the tidal-wave of bills really hit.

I do agree though that what was passed, is not what everyone wanted. I know I wanted to see a full public option or extension of medicare/medicaid to all citizens. But everyone I know said they wanted the healthcare system fixed. This bill is supposed to reform it. So far the only thing I actually like about it is the ability to arbitrarily drop coverage under the guise of 'pre-existing'.


I would prefer my tax dollars spent making the quality of life better for my neighbors than paying to kill people of a different skin tone on the other side of the planet. Course, I was not a fan of the wars either. So, I suppose passive voices don't really matter. This site certainly has examples where no dissenting voice has any weight, even with mountains of evidence against almost none: They are still wrong, simply because they are.

Wonder if some European country will take me.. Probably not because of what Bush did to the way the world saw Americans.

Getting so tired of being jaded.

Want to see what your premiums would be under the two suggested plans? Have a look here: healthreform.kff.org...

Originally posted by Jim Scott
Want to see what your premiums would be under the two suggested plans? Have a look here: healthreform.kff.org...

On that, selecting no insurance through provider amounts to a cost of barely ($14) more than I paid monthly (only myself, full coverage).

We are unimpressed .

(edit)
The Senate bill is actually $45 cheaper...

[edit on 25-12-2009 by lordtyp0]

reply to post by x2Strongx


Let me understand this....

The healthcare bill is totally different from the original Obama plan.
It has been a top discussion for over 8 months

The bill has changed repeatedly and so have the budgets and over for the whole time that this has gone on... you still refer to it as "Obamacare" and then try to credit your arguement with one source? Just ONE?

For all the changes over such a vast time period, All this fuss over one source?
I just would like a little more research.

by the way... a true fiscal conservative doesn't embellish figures. Kinda takes away from the definition of us fiscal conservatives.

Its misinfo like this that gives people ammo against truth

A $15,000 annual fee? Your credibility and that of your source is highly questionable. Do more research. Maybe you meant that it wasn't annual but over a certain time period.

Please put more time into this. one source is not nearly enough to have a feasible arguement. I too have problems with obamacare but, lets have serious arguement.




[edit on 25-12-2009 by CosmicYahtzee]

reply to post by lordtyp0


Bless you , Sir!
A rational voice this early in the morning

Merry Christmas Everyone!

Well that should help crush whats left of the middle class.More mortage forclosures in their new year.Thanks Obama!

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

You will not need it, all we have to do is call the bill unconstitutional and challenge the government in court.

I know is going to be a growing number of citizens joining ranks on this one.

And exactly why is it unconstitutional? It seems like a perfectly legal exercise of the Article 1 Commerce Clause powers.

reply to post by lordtyp0


Everyone likes to play the Obama is better than Bush Because game...

But it is getting old already.

Two destructive and corrupt administrations back to back isn't going to change anything.

In fact it has only made things worse.

In time even you are going to realize that.

They will now take the passed senate version of this bill and the previously passed house bill behind closed doors, where they will create a compromise bill, it will contain everything they want, despite claims some have made.

The finished product will have all of the elements they originally wanted, this is all happening as it was planned. Surely you know how this game is played by law makers who are seeking to create law that will benefit government first, corporate interests, special interests, lobbyists and where possible funding for pet projects, and of course laws and tax code revisions that will pay for it all... As well as an all important social agenda and power grab over the entire health care industry, regulations and bureaucracies that will ultimately leave nothing but a public option for everyone outside of the super rich and in government.

It will not be long now, no more wasted partisan debate or arguments please.

The $15,000 figure is a fair estimate, someone is going to have to pay for the millions who will be provided health care but can't afford coverage.

If you are okay with the loss of liberty and freedom, and with higher taxes and a future government bureaucracy you will have to fight your way through to get health care, then by all means, sit back relax and wait, it is coming soon.

And of course, when it turns out to be something you don't like, remember there is no going back, because they are trying to make this legislation when signed into law repeal-proof.....

So when all else fails, and you find yourself frustrated with the new health care system, blame Bush then, if it makes you feel better.

reply to post by x2Strongx


Okay...first off...your source..
CNSNews.com's motto is "The Right News. Right now."...They intend the punn.

just saying...when we know a source is proudly bias we should at least pause to check out the story.

Obamacare Slaps $15,000 Annual Fee on Middle Class Families
by Terry Jeffrey

On Dec. 19, the CBO sent a letter to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., analyzing the fiscal impact of the bill the Senate is poised to vote on before Christmas.

No...they didn't. I checked the CBO site and the log of letters and reports...even though the author conveniently forgot to link the report, I thought I would take iniative rather than his word

On Dec. 19th the CBO issued this letter which has nothing to say about "annual fees" on the middle class etc. See for yourself..

They did issue a letter on Nov. 30th however that discussed the relevant issues...I am sure the misdirection by the author was just an error...given his proud political bias After all, why wouldn't he want anyone to vet his "News".

Let's take a look at the actual CBO Document...
www.cbo.gov...

Average premiums per policy in the nongroup market in 2016 would be roughly $5,800 for single policies and $15,200 for family policies under the proposal, compared with roughly $5,500 for single policies and $13,100 for family policies under current law.

So 6 years from now the average premium for a family will increase by $1,900 dollars...hmm...1900 divided by 6 equals 316.6 divided by $13,100...by my math that is a 2.5% increase annually in premiums..anyone know what the average premium increase for a family is now? I'll give you a hint, mine increased 50% in the past year.

Also ...2016....he used 2008 poverty levels in his math to come to the 88k number while using 2016 premium estimates. The poverty level index will certainly rise by 2016 increasing those eligable for a subsidy.

Those figures indicate what enrollees would pay, on average, not accounting for the new federal subsidies.

The majority of nongroup enrollees (about 57 percent) would receive subsidies via the new insurance exchanges, and those subsidies, on average, would cover nearly two-thirds of the total premium,

The amount of subsidy received would depend on the enrollee’s income relative to the federal poverty level (FPL) according to a specified schedule (see Table 2, appended).

The legislation would have much smaller effects on premiums for employment-based coverage, which would account for about five-sixths of the total health insurance market. In the small group market, which is defined in this analysis as consisting of employers with 50 or fewer workers, CBO and JCT estimate that the change in the average premium per person resulting from the legislation could range from an increase of 1 percent to a reduction of 2 percent in 2016 (relative to current law). Under the proposal, the subsidy levels in each market would be tied to the premium of the second cheapest plan providing the “silver” level of coverage (that is, paying 70 percent of enrollees’ covered health care costs, on average). CBO and JCT have estimated that, in 2016, the average premium nationwide for those “reference plans” would be about $5,200 for single coverage and about $14,100 for family coverage.

Lastly take a look at page 29 of the CBO report the author is supposedly citing...tell me if you can see where the numbers differ...

For example...you can make up to 100k and still recieve subsidies that reduce your premium to $9,200 for a family in 2016...compared to the average cost now of $13,100...so six years from now you can pay $4000 less in premiums than you pay now for the same coverage...as opposed to the status qou where premiums are rocketing upwards....where will they be in 6 years absent this bill? Minimum 10% increase in premiums a year via the private sector.

So lets say conservatively 60% in crease in premiums absent legislation...that is 21k annual premium for a family in 2016 as opposed to the $9,200 with legislation...or even 14k for those making over 100k as opposed to 21k..

www.boston.com...
major health insurers plan to raise premiums by about 10 percent next year, prompting many employers to reduce benefits and shift additional costs to workers.

get it?

See the chart...
www.cbo.gov...

With all the screaming going on, I am just saying it's good to stop and think once in a while.

I won't be responding to blind rhetoric, but if anyone wants to discuss the ACTUAL CBO report that the author almost cited correctly or the numbers I am all ears.

Originally posted by lordtyp0

Originally posted by Jim Scott
Want to see what your premiums would be under the two suggested plans? Have a look here: healthreform.kff.org...

On that, selecting no insurance through provider amounts to a cost of barely ($14) more than I paid monthly (only myself, full coverage).

We are unimpressed

.

(edit)
The Senate bill is actually $45 cheaper...

[edit on 25-12-2009 by lordtyp0]

Something odd is happening, I know people who's premiums are doubling this month.

I wonder what is going on?

From each according to his ability to each according to his need.

Rob from the semi-rich and give to the poor.
Level the playing field.

www.dailykos.com...

The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation released a simple document that could transform the entire health care debate in the United States. Absolutely no other set of statistics so cleanly identify the nature of our broken system.

This week we put out our annual benchmark survey of employer health coverage and costs. Two numbers jumped off the pages.

The first number was the average cost of a family health insurance policy in 2009: $13,375.

The other result that jumped off the page was the stark contrast between increases in health insurance premiums and overall inflation in the general economy. Premiums went up 5% and prices overall fell 0.7% (mainly driven by a big drop-off in energy prices) [...] over the last ten years premiums have increased by 131%, while wages have grown 38% and inflation has grown 28%. Consider this: If people (and businesses) are as concerned as they are now about rising health care costs in a period when they are actually moderating, how much more concerned will they be when rates of increase return to historic averages?

Let's do some very simple arithmetic. Start with a fairly conservative assumption: If we assume that premium increases over the next ten years will average what they did over the last five (about 6.1% per year), the average premium for a family policy in 2019 will be $24,180. That's a big number. On the other hand, if we assume increases revert to the average of the last ten years—an average annual increase of about 8.7% and a very plausible scenario—premiums in 2019 will average a whopping $30,803, a very scary number.

30K???? I'll take the 9k after subsidy for a family policy under the new bill. As a matter of fact if I am making over 100k in 2016 I will take the full 14.2k without subsidy rather than 30k.

again see the chart on the last page of the CBO report cited...
www.cbo.gov...

[edit on 28-12-2009 by maybereal11]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Something odd is happening, I know people who's premiums are doubling this month.

I wonder what is going on?

I am among them. Last month in IL Unicare increased my premium by 75% and then immediately sold IL Unicare to Blue Cross/Blue Shield who jacked the premiums up more...for those they chose to accept from Unicare. Those not willing to pay near double what they paid a few months ago joined the ranks of the uninsured.

Not to mention...
Costs Of Prescription Drugs Spike
www.npr.org...

Drug Makers Raise Prices in Face of Health Care Reform
www.nytimes.com...

It is an all out pile-on to screw the already economically depressed consumer as much as possible before the government implements reform.

If ever there was a moment you thought that drug manufacturers or insurance companies gave a rats ass about the average american, this is your wake up call.

The government is certainly not perfect at administering reform, but for the love of God we have reached a point where they can not do worse than the criminal enterprise that we call our private health insurance industry.

reply to post by maybereal11

I am among them. Last month in IL Unicare increased my premium by 75% and then immediately sold IL Unicare to Blue Cross/Blue Shield who jacked the premiums up more...for those they chose to accept from Unicare. Those not willing to pay near double what they paid a few months ago joined the ranks of the uninsured.

HOLY COW,

I am so glad you posted what was happening with you, we need a topic to see how this health care bill may be effecting us NOW.

I don't have health care, but maybe people will come forward and tell us their circumstances,

The timing of these increases is a no brainer.

You know if your Insurance premiums DOUBLE or TRIPLE go look somewhere else for an insurance premium .. Raise your deductible .. make changes ... You can do that right now ...

If the Health Exchanges were to take over ... They will have thier tiers of programs ... and that will be it ... No Competition ... because eventually and might not be at first .. but eventually the system .. .willl be corrupted ... and the private Heatlh carriers will go bankrupt.

ANY BUSINESS OWNER OUT THERE ???? How about you let the Federal Government tell you what % you can make on your next job ... And if you charge to much they pull your perment to do that type of work ???

I THINK NOT ... ... THAT IS BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW TO DO YOUR JOB AND KNOW THERE ARE SLUMPS IN ALL TYPES OF WORK ... THE REASON FOR SAVINGS ...

reply to post by NightoftheComet


You have it backwards. A poor person would be stupid to vote republican. The republican stickers are on luxury cars.

reply to post by earthdude


Yes, anyone wanting a Hand-Out would be Stupid to vote Republican ... Republicans aren't spread the wealth type of People ... They are go out and make it type of people ...

Regardless, of Donkey or Elephant ... this is not the point here ...

THE POINT IS ...

Health Insurance is going to go up over time. Do you want it to be controlled by the government or businesses trying to compete against one another to get the business itself.

I think this is a No-Brainer .. similiar to why we wouldn't want monopolies taking over every other aspect of our lifes .. A matter a fact I think the government is one big MONOPOLY.

reply to post by x2Strongx


I am not a fan of this Obamacare monstrosity, but $15,000 annually for a family of 4 making $88,000 and not covered by any other insurance sounds pretty fair to me. What am I missing?

I have a family of 4, and I make half of that income, and my health insurance cost is about $15,000 per year. My employer pays about half of that, so my actual cost is lower, but then I still have co-pays and deductibles.

This seems like a pretty decent piece of the bill, where is the unfair redistribution of wealth?