9/11 for Dummies?

Originally posted by bsbray11

Where's your list of experts?

RE: AE engineers that reject the NIST report.

Where's their list of papers that detail their objections to the NIST report.

I would like to critique their professional findings.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Where's your list of experts?

Here ya go bsbray names with their peer reviewed papers, conferences, etc...

Some Peer Reviewed Papers in Engineering Journals

What Did and Did not Cause Collapse of WTC Twin Towers in New York
Authors Bazant, Le, Greening & Benson. Journal of Engineering Mechanics ASCE 134 (2008).

Mechanics of Progressive Collapse: Learning from World Trade Center and Building Demolitions Co-author Verdure. PDF. Journal of Engineering Mechanics ASCE 133 (2007): pp. 308–319
Discussion and replies to June 2006 Bazant & Verdure paper: James Gourley, G. Szuladinski

Bazant & Zhou, 2001-2002: Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse?—Simple Analysis J. Engineering Mechanics ASCE, Sept. 28, 2001, addendum March, 2002.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation. Eagar, T.W., & Musso, C., JOM v. 53, no. 12, (2001): 8-12.

Dissecting the Collapses Civil Engineering ASCE v. 72, no. 5, (2002): 36-46.

A suggested cause of the fire-induced collapse of the World Trade Towers. By: Quintiere, J.G.; di Marzo, M.; Becker, R.. Fire Safety Journal, Oct2002, Vol. 37 Issue 7, p707, 10p.

S. W. Banovic, T. Foecke, W.E. Luecke, et al. “The role of metallurgy in the NIST investigation of the World Trade Center towers collapse”, JOM, vol. 59, no. 11, pp. 22-29, November 2007.

Impact of the Boeing 767 Aircraft into the World Trade Center. By: Karim, Mohammed R.; Fatt, Michelle S. Hoo. Journal of Engineering Mechanics, Oct2005, Vol. 131 Issue 10, p1066-1072.

Could the world trade center have been modified to prevent its collapse?; Newland, D. E.; Cebon, D. Journal of Engineering Mechanics; 2002 Vol. 128 Issue 7, p795-800, 6p.

"Elaboration on Aspects of the Postulated Collapse of the World Trade Centre Twin Towers" Clifton, Charles G., HERA: Innovation in Metals. 2001. 13 December 2001.

How the airplane wing cut through the exterior columns of the World Trade Center; Wierzbicki, T.; Teng, X. International Journal of Impact Engineering; 2003 Vol. 28, p601-625, 25p

Stability of the World Trade Center Twin Towers Structural Frame in Multiple Floor Fires. By: Usmani, A. S.. Journal of Engineering Mechanics, Jun2005, Vol. 131 Issue 6, p654-657.

Structural Responses of World Trade Center under Aircraft Attacks. Omika, Yukihiro.; Fukuzawa, Eiji.; Koshika, Norihide. Journal of Structural Engineering v. 131 no1 (January 2005) p. 6-15

The Structural Steel of the World Trade Center Towers. Gayle, Frank W.; Banovic, Stephen W.; Foecke, Tim. Advanced Materials & Processes v. 162 no10 (October 2004) p. 37-9

WTC Findings Uphold Structural Design. Post, Nadine M. ENR v. 253 no17 (November 1 2004) p. 10-11

"World Trade Center Collapse-Civil Engineering Considerations" Monahan, B., Practice Periodical on Structural Design and Construction v. 7, no. 3, (2002): 134-135.

Ming Wang, Peter Chang, James Quintiere, and Andre Marshall "Scale Modeling of the 96th Floor of World Trade Center Tower 1" Journal of Performance of Constructed Facilities Volume 21, Issue 6, pp. 414-421

Continued:

Engineering Conference Papers
"TMS Hot Topic Symposium Examines WTC Collapse and Building Engineering" Marechaux, T.G. JOM, v. 54, no. 4, (2002): 13-17.

Abboud, N., M. Levy, D. Tennant, J. Mould, H. Levine, S. King, C. Ekwueme, A. Jain, G. Hart. (2003) Anatomy of a Disaster: A Structural Investigation of the World Trade Center Collapses. In: Proceedings of the Third Congress on Forensic Engineering. San Diego: American Society of Civil Engineers. pp 360-370

Beyler, C., D. White, M. Peatross, J. Trellis, S. Li, A. Luers, D. Hopkins. (2003) Analysis of the Thermal Exposure in the Impact Areas of the World Trade Center Terrorist Attacks. In: Proceedings of the Third Congress on Forensic Engineering. San Diego: American Society of Civil Engineers. pp 371-382

Thater, G. G.; Panariello, G. F.; Cuoco, D. A. (2003) World Trade Center Disaster: Damage/Debris Assessment In: Proceedings of the Third Congress on Forensic Engineering. San Diego: American Society of Civil Engineers. pp 383-392



Fire Protection and Fire Modeling Papers
How did the WTC towers collapse? A new theory; Usmani, A. S.; Chung, Y. C.; Torero, J. L. Fire Safety Journal; 2003 Vol. 38, p501-533, 33p.

Effect of insulation on the fire behaviour of steel floor trusses. Fire and Materials, 29:4, July/August 2005. pp. 181 - 194. Chang, Jeremy; Buchanan, Andrew H.; Moss, Peter J.

"WTC: Lightweight Steel and High-Rise Buildings" Brannigan, F.L. Fire Engineering v.155, no. 4, (2002): 145-150.

"Construction and Collapse Factors" Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10, (2002): 106-108.

Corbett, G.P. "Learning and Applying the Lessons of the WTC Disaster" Fire Engineering v.155, no. 10, (2002.): 133-135.

"Collapse Lessons" Fire Engineering v. 155, no. 10, (2002): 97-103

Burgess, I.W., 'Fire Resistance of Framed Buildings', Physics Education, 37 (5), (2002) pp390-399.

G. Flint, A.S. Usmani, S. Lamont, J. Torero and B. Lane, Effect of fire on composite long span truss floor systems, Journal of Constructional Steel Research 62 (4) (2006), pp. 303–315.



Fire Protection Conference Papers
"Coupled fire dynamics and thermal response of complex building structures" Proceedings of the Combustion Institute, Volume 30, Issue 2, January 2005, Pages 2255-2262 Kuldeep Prasad and Howard R. Baum

Choi, S.K., Burgess, I.W. and Plank, R.J., 'The Behaviour of Lightweight Composite Floor Trusses in Fire', ASCE Specialty Conference: Designing Structures for Fire, Baltimore, (Oct 2003) pp 24-32.

Jowsey et all, Determination of Fire Induced Collapse Mechanisms in Steel Framed Structures, 4th European Conference on Steel and Composite Structures, 10 June 05, 69-76

Usmani et all, Collapse scenarios of WTC 1 & 2 with extension to generic tall buildings, Oct-2006 Proceedings of the International Congress on Fire Safety in Tall Buildings

Related Papers
Interactive Failure of Two Impacting Beams Xiaoqing. Teng and Tomasz Wierzbicki. J. Engrg. Mech., Volume 129, Issue 8, pp. 918-926 (August 2003)

Use of High-Efficiency Energy Absorbing Device to Arrest Progressive Collapse of Tall Building Qing Zhou and T. X. Yu Journal of Engineering Mechanics 130, 1177 (2004)

A simple model of the World Trade Center fireball dynamics. Proceedings of the Combustion Institute 30:2, January, 2005. pp. 2247-2254. Baum, Howard R.; Rehm, Ronald G.

Reconnaissance and preliminary assessment of a damaged high-rise building near Ground Zero. The Structural Design of Tall and Special Buildings. 12 :5, 15 December 2003. pp. 371 - 391. Warn, Gordon; Berman, Jeffrey; Whittaker, Andrew; Bruneau, Michel

"Acoustic and Vibration Background Noise in the Collapsed Structure of the World Trade Center" Gabrielson, T.B., Poese, M.E., & Atchley, A.A., The Journal of Acoustical Society of America v. 113, no. 1, (2003): 45-48

John K. McGee et al, “Chemical Analysis of World Trade Center Fine Particulate Matter for Use in
Toxicologic Assessment”, Environmental Health Perspective (June 2003)

UC Davis Aerosol Study: Cahill et al., “Analysis of Aerosols from the World Trade Center
Collapse Site, New York, October 2 to October 30, 2001”, Aerosol Science and Technology,

Lioy et al, “Characterization of the Dust/Smoke Aerosol that Settled East of the World Trade Center
(WTC) in Lower Manhattan after the Collapse of the WTC 11 September 2001”, Environmental Health
Perspectives, Volume 110 #7

Originally posted by ImAPepper

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by impressme
*Fact*, No passengers families showed up at arrival airports in SF, LA demanding answers, nothing.

This struck me as really strange. Anyone have more info on this?

Yes, I do. There is really nothing strange about it at all.

Lets look at flight 93.

13 of the 33 passengers were not even scheduled on that flight.

So far, in my brief search, 17 of the 33 passengers did not even live in CA. It appears many were going on business, getting connecting flights to overseas..etc.

Linda Gronlund was going on a business trip.

Mark Rothenberg was another passenger from NY traveling to Taiwan.

Toshiya Kuge was on his way back home to Japan.

Colleen Fraser was on her way to a writing seminar.

I think you get the picture here. Might I suggest you go through the passenger lists and figure out what each of them were doing on 9/11.

I will not spend the rest of my morning dealing with people questioning the actions of family members that have just suffered the deaths of their loved ones. Anyone that wants to suggest all the family members are in on it too are simply disgusting.

No one said any such thing.

The idea of family invovlement was brought up by you only.

Feigning disgust to make a point is just that.

Originally posted by Sean48


No one said any such thing.

The idea of family invovlement was brought up by you only.

Feigning disgust to make a point is just that.

What does this mean?

Originally posted by impressme
*Fact*, No passengers families showed up at arrival airports in SF, LA demanding answers, nothing.

Tell me, Sean... where do you think he was going with this? Hmmm?

Originally posted by Joey Canoli

Originally posted by bsbray11
Where's your list of experts?

RE: AE engineers that reject the NIST report.

Where's their list of papers that detail their objections to the NIST report.

It figures you would deflect from the real question.


reply to post by ImAPepper


I only asked for names and credentials, because I figured someone would try to twist this into an issue of academic literature once it is realized that more experts are outspoken AGAINST the government story than there are outspokenly in favor of it.


So I counted the names, and no, you didn't list more than are members of those organizations. Sorry. "Truthers" have you beat by the professional numbers. And listing entire organizations is bull crap because Griff was a member of the ASCE, for example, so you can't erroneously try to claim everyone in the ASCE supports the government account just because you haven't heard from them. Most of them are probably entirely ignorant of the issues anyway. I want names of specific people. You should have no trouble if you are really in such a clear majority.

You listed Bazant 3 separate times, Zhou twice, and I didn't even bother looking for redundancies after that because my point is made.

Not to mention most of those papers are hypothetical and/or devoid of any real data whatsoever in the first place. The reason there is a lack of papers coming from the people in these organizations, is the exact reason why they put their names with the organizations in the first place: they realize that a massive amount of information has been neglected and a much more thorough investigation is needed. And again, they outnumber the people you list. Not that it makes any difference by numbers alone at the end of the day, but you can stop parading around like all the experts agree with you now please.

[edit on 25-12-2009 by bsbray11]

Originally posted by bsbray11
Between those three organizations alone you have hundreds of individuals, each and every one explicitly putting their own name with these organizations that call for re-investigation.

So show us their papers in peer reviewed journal.... Oh, you cannot as nothing they post is of any worth - like the door on flight AA77. That is the quality of their "research"

reply to post by dereks


My response to you is in my last post.

You are moving the goal posts, and to no consequence. There are more experts calling for re-investigation and further study than there are claiming to know anything definite about the collapses, even amongst the papers listed above.

I am still waiting for someone to posts undeniable facts about the OS. So far no one has, I guess this proves the OS is a lie. I was expecting an OS believer and God know there are plenty of them, to come up with something since they defend it day and night yet not one of you are willing to step up to the plate. Must be fun defending a proven lie.

reply to post by dereks


Dereks, you just got owned man..

A wealth of 9/11 information has been provided to you as asked, yet you have provided nothing more than posts that ask for more. Let me ask you, Why has the "9/11 Commission" never answered question brought up by CT's? Huh?

Why was that commission made up of FORMER WHITE HOUSE STAFF and government officials. Yet you continue to shut down the work of top DOCTORS in their respective fields to your silly Official Theory BS.

I can tell you damn sure if I was on a plane and a terrorist stood up to hijack it with BOXCUTTERS I would beat the living @#$%% out of them.

How a man that never flew a 747 was able to hit a perfect crash landing 700ft off the ground (near impossible).

How no planes were scrambled immidiately on that day, whos responsibility laid in the hands of NORAD. May I add that its unprecedented to not send fighter planes in this situation.

How Dick Cheney took control of NORAD 6 months before 9/11 and was the one who KNEW no planes were being scrambled that day. He was in command in the White House Bunker.

How Engineers, Scientists, and Pilots, experts in their fields, can confirm the Jet-A fuel would have completely burned in MAX 20 min, the accepted number is somewhere around 7min. Why did they collapse 2+ hours after it was done burning?

Why do countless fire fighters recall CLEARLY hearing "bang, bang, bang" repeating constantly explosions going off? Right before the collapse?!!!

Why did firefighters and emergency personnel report fire burning in the underground for 99 days!! NOTHING except something as reactive as THERMITE could have burned that long with that intensity. NOTHING MAN NOTHING, find me what material could have possibly been in the plane or the towers that could have burned fires underground for 99 days!

Looks like you gotta face some facts man..

But I must say Thank You,

Your ignorance has inspired me to write, for the first time in a while.
Hope you can wake up...

Merry Christmas

reply to post by rhombus24

How no planes were scrambled immidiately on that day, whos responsibility laid in the hands of NORAD. May I add that its unprecedented to not send fighter planes in this situation.

As proven by the quick intercept of the airliner that flew past its destination and was out of contact with the ground not to long ago. Wait, nobody scrambled to intercept that airliner..........

If you are going to start speaking authoritatively about NORAD, you might want to actually learn a little about the subject....and not from reading conspiracy sites.



Not to mention, if you are going to start off your post commenting on someone being owned....you might want to make sure that your post is based in reality. You failed in that.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]

reply to post by rhombus24


Dereks, you just got owned man..

A wealth of 9/11 information has been provided to you as asked, yet you have provided nothing more than posts that ask for more. Let me ask you, Why has the "9/11 Commission" never answered question brought up by CT's? Huh? BECAUSE THEY WERE TASKED WITH FINDING OUT HOW US SECURITY WAS BREACHED AND WHAT COULD BE DONE IN THE FUTURE TO PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11. THEY WERE NOT TAKSED WITH RESPONDING TO EVERY STUPID INNUENDO AND CONSPRIRACY FANTASY.

Why was that commission made up of FORMER WHITE HOUSE STAFF and government officials. Yet you continue to shut down the work of top DOCTORS in their respective fields to your silly Official Theory BS. YOU'RE RIGHT, THE COMMISSION SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPOSED OF MARGINALLY COHERENT INTERNET KOOKS.

I can tell you damn sure if I was on a plane and a terrorist stood up to hijack it with BOXCUTTERS I would beat the living @#$%% out of them. YEAH, RIGHT

How a man that never flew a 747 was able to hit a perfect crash landing 700ft off the ground (near impossible). "PERFECT CRASH LANDING 700 FEET OFF THE GROUND"??? I'LL LET YOU THINK ABOUT THAT ONE A BIT.

How no planes were scrambled immidiately on that day, whos responsibility laid in the hands of NORAD. May I add that its unprecedented to not send fighter planes in this situation. YOU CAN "ADD" ALL YOU WANT, IT'S STILL NOT TRUE

How Dick Cheney took control of NORAD 6 months before 9/11 and was the one who KNEW no planes were being scrambled that day. He was in command in the White House Bunker.

How Engineers, Scientists, and Pilots, experts in their fields, can confirm the Jet-A fuel would have completely burned in MAX 20 min, the accepted number is somewhere around 7min. Why did they collapse 2+ hours after it was done burning?

Why do countless fire fighters recall CLEARLY hearing "bang, bang, bang" repeating constantly explosions going off? Right before the collapse?!!!

Why did firefighters and emergency personnel report fire burning in the underground for 99 days!! NOTHING except something as reactive as THERMITE could have burned that long with that intensity. NOTHING MAN NOTHING, find me what material could have possibly been in the plane or the towers that could have burned fires underground for 99 days!

Looks like you gotta face some facts man..

FIRST YOU SHOULD PRESENT SOME

But I must say Thank You,

Your ignorance has inspired me to write, for the first time in a while.
Hope you can wake up...

Merry Christmas

Haha so you re comment my post and comment on ONE aspect??

(Most common OS supporter "argument")

Please,

answer the other ones and SHOW me the proof otherwise. I mean your so quick to say its BS right, maybe you should open my eyes to this "data" you seem to think I should have.

I just gave you undeniable FACTS of the day, JUST ANSWER MY LAST QUESTION.

On how the firefighters reported burning for 99 days and bombs going off countless times. Surely you can't be implying ALL OF THE NYFD and NYPD are lying, now that son.. is a conspiracy.

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by rhombus24

 

Dereks, you just got owned man..

A wealth of 9/11 information has been provided to you as asked, yet you have provided nothing more than posts that ask for more. Let me ask you, Why has the "9/11 Commission" never answered question brought up by CT's? Huh? BECAUSE THEY WERE TASKED WITH FINDING OUT HOW US SECURITY WAS BREACHED AND WHAT COULD BE DONE IN THE FUTURE TO PREVENT ANOTHER 9/11. THEY WERE NOT TAKSED WITH RESPONDING TO EVERY STUPID INNUENDO AND CONSPRIRACY FANTASY.

Why was that commission made up of FORMER WHITE HOUSE STAFF and government officials. Yet you continue to shut down the work of top DOCTORS in their respective fields to your silly Official Theory BS. YOU'RE RIGHT, THE COMMISSION SHOULD HAVE BEEN COMPOSED OF MARGINALLY COHERENT INTERNET KOOKS.

I can tell you damn sure if I was on a plane and a terrorist stood up to hijack it with BOXCUTTERS I would beat the living @#$%% out of them. YEAH, RIGHT

How a man that never flew a 747 was able to hit a perfect crash landing 700ft off the ground (near impossible). "PERFECT CRASH LANDING 700 FEET OFF THE GROUND"??? I'LL LET YOU THINK ABOUT THAT ONE A BIT.

How no planes were scrambled immidiately on that day, whos responsibility laid in the hands of NORAD. May I add that its unprecedented to not send fighter planes in this situation. YOU CAN "ADD" ALL YOU WANT, IT'S STILL NOT TRUE

How Dick Cheney took control of NORAD 6 months before 9/11 and was the one who KNEW no planes were being scrambled that day. He was in command in the White House Bunker.

How Engineers, Scientists, and Pilots, experts in their fields, can confirm the Jet-A fuel would have completely burned in MAX 20 min, the accepted number is somewhere around 7min. Why did they collapse 2+ hours after it was done burning?

Why do countless fire fighters recall CLEARLY hearing "bang, bang, bang" repeating constantly explosions going off? Right before the collapse?!!!

Why did firefighters and emergency personnel report fire burning in the underground for 99 days!! NOTHING except something as reactive as THERMITE could have burned that long with that intensity. NOTHING MAN NOTHING, find me what material could have possibly been in the plane or the towers that could have burned fires underground for 99 days!

Looks like you gotta face some facts man..

FIRST YOU SHOULD PRESENT SOME

But I must say Thank You,

Your ignorance has inspired me to write, for the first time in a while.
Hope you can wake up...

Merry Christmas

Wow you really wouldn't have stood up to these men with BOXCUTTERS??
Please

You obviously have no spine and are not a REAL man. I mean if they had AK-47 and scary #$# like that OK. But a *#$*# BOXCUTTER??? CMON!!!

And What of the other facts my friend, seems like you stopped and took off the other direction when they got good. I guess your reaction was a "so-what" right?

Yet the motto of this site continues to be DENY IGNORANCE

911 for Dummies.
911 was a Coptic Christian holiday.
Christmas Day there was an attack on a Delta airplane.
Pattern for dummies.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Thank you OP. This is perhaps the approach I should have taken. Instead I just got my self flamed.

I can tell you damn sure if I was on a plane and a terrorist stood up to hijack it with BOXCUTTERS I would beat the living @#$%% out of them.

Yep, and the two "muscle" hijackers are just going to stand there while you pound them one at a time. Not likely.

How a man that never flew a 747 was able to hit a perfect crash landing 700ft off the ground (near impossible).

Umm, none of the aircraft were 747's. And the pilots involved, at least a few of them, were licensed pilots. In addition, a "perfect crash landing"? Not that hard really, to hit a large building.

How Dick Cheney took control of NORAD 6 months before 9/11 and was the one who KNEW no planes were being scrambled that day. He was in command in the White House Bunker.

Except, he didn't take control of NORAD. I am going to guess you are referring to this Alex Jones gem.........

"....In May of 2001, by presidential order, Cheney was handed direct control of all wargame and drill operations. This meant he was solely in charge of the overlapping NORAD drills and wargames on the morning of 9/11, that prevented Standard Operating Procedure from being implemented, and any of the hijacked planes being intercepted...."

www.prisonplanet.com...


Now, here is the actual Presidential Order.....

Statement by the President
Domestic Preparedness Against Weapons of Mass Destruction

Protecting America's homeland and citizens from the threat of weapons of mass destruction is one of our Nation's important national security challenges. Today, more nations possess chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons than ever before. Still others seek to join them. Most troubling of all, the list of these countries includes some of the world's least-responsible states -- states for whom terror and blackmail are a way of life. Some non-state terrorist groups have also demonstrated an interest in acquiring weapons of mass destruction.

Against this backdrop, it is clear that the threat of chemical, biological, or nuclear weapons being used against the United States -- while not immediate -- is very real. That is why our Nation actively seeks to deny chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons to those seeking to acquire them. That is why, together with our allies, we seek to deter anyone who would contemplate their use. And that is also why we must ensure that our Nation is prepared to defend against the harm they can inflict.

Should our efforts to reduce the threat to our country from weapons of mass destruction be less than fully successful, prudence dictates that the United States be fully prepared to deal effectively with the consequences of such a weapon being used here on our soil

Today, numerous Federal departments and agencies have programs to deal with the consequences of a potential use of a chemical, biological, radiological, or nuclear weapon in the United States. Many of these Federal programs offer training, planning, and assistance to state and local governments. But to maximize their effectiveness, these efforts need to be seamlessly integrated, harmonious, and comprehensive

Therefore, I have asked Vice President Cheney to oversee the development of a coordinated national effort so that we may do the very best possible job of protecting our people from catastrophic harm. I have also asked Joe Allbaugh, the Director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, to create an Office of National Preparedness. This Office will be responsible for implementing the results of those parts of the national effort overseen by Vice President Cheney that deal with consequence management. Specifically it will coordinate all Federal programs dealing with weapons of mass destruction consequence management within the Departments of Defense, Health and Human Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and other federal agencies. The Office of National Preparedness will work closely with state and local governments to ensure their planning, training, and equipment needs are addressed. FEMA will also work closely with the Department of Justice, in its lead role for crisis management, to ensure that all facets of our response to the threat from weapons of mass destruction are coordinated and cohesive. I will periodically chair a meeting of the National Security Council to review these efforts.

No governmental responsibility is more fundamental than protecting the physical safety of our Nation and its citizens. In today's world, this obligation includes protection against the use of weapons of mass destruction. I look forward to working closely with Congress so that together we can meet this challenge

White House Press release, May 2001

Nothing in there about being in control of NORAD. Its about dealing with the aftermath of an WMD attack against the United States. Now, why would the Vice President be in charge of the Situation Room at the White House when the President is out of town? You should be able to figure that out. And since we know that planes WERE scrambled that day......

How Engineers, Scientists, and Pilots, experts in their fields, can confirm the Jet-A fuel would have completely burned in MAX 20 min, the accepted number is somewhere around 7min. Why did they collapse 2+ hours after it was done burning?

Well your "experts" are being arrogant if they are stating without doubt that all the fuel would have been completely burned in 20 minutes. Ask anyone who has attended an aircraft firefighting school. But I will grant you that the majority of the fuel burned off in 20-30 minutes. At that point, however, everything else was burning within the impact areas (furniture, desks, carpets, floor tiles etc). Then, you might want to recheck how short a time it was before the towers collapsed.....

Why did firefighters and emergency personnel report fire burning in the underground for 99 days!! NOTHING except something as reactive as THERMITE could have burned that long with that intensity. NOTHING MAN NOTHING, find me what material could have possibly been in the plane or the towers that could have burned fires underground for 99 days!

Well considering that there are places on Earth that have had underground fires burning for YEARS.... More assumption on your part. There was a frigging underground mall under the towers full of combustible materials, not to mention air coming into the bottom of the pile from the subway tubes to feed the fires. (thermite burning for 99 days...LOL)

Okay, I addressed a few more of your points.........

Originally posted by bsbray11



I only asked for names and credentials, because I figured someone would try to twist this into an issue of academic literature once it is realized that more experts are outspoken AGAINST the government story than there are outspokenly in favor of it.

Not twisting at all. It upsets you that not one of your so called "experts" that speak out have ever written anything that was appropriately peer reviewed.

Opinions mean nothing when it comes to science.

You counted the names of the authors. Nice job. Now, tell me:

How many engineers did it take to peer review these papers ?

How many people attended these conferences?

You seem to have a thing for Griff and his opinion. IIFC, Griff wanted to take his name off A&E for Gage being deceptive. I also recall Griff stating that the NIST report on 1 & 2 was possible to have happened the way explained in their report.

Originally posted by ImAPepper
Not twisting at all. It upsets you that not one of your so called "experts" that speak out have ever written anything that was appropriately peer reviewed.

Opinions mean nothing when it comes to science.

You counted the names of the authors. Nice job. Now, tell me:

How many engineers did it take to peer review these papers ?

How many people attended these conferences?

Peer review. Not that it's all cracked up to be.