Challenge to crop circle skeptics...

I am so with you on this challenge. I have met two people this year who claim to be part of the main circlemaking group from the barge inn in wiltshire. They say they are channeling something when they do it. My immediate answer was to say prove it. He said it's illegal so we cant be filmed. When I said wear a balaclava he didn't have an answer. Neither of them particularly seem to show any signs of great intellectual understanding of geometry or symbology. when asked about how the stalks weave together and the the way the crops can be layered in different directions he said it was just a random thing.They expected me to believe them without question and I found the whole situation very difficult and embarrasing because there was no way that I was going to say "Oh WOW, your so amazing" without evidence. One of them was pointing to all these pictures on the wall of the pub of recent circles saying i made that one and that one ........oh and I did that one last night! and I just thought do I have MUG written on my face!!

The thing is its too easy to claim responsibility for such an amazing phenomena without proof. none of us know exactly what is creating them. but if you claim to be the creator then you do need to prove it. I personally think it is impossible to create these intricate circles overnight. I have stood in these circles and the dimensions are huge and so inhumanly perfect. So if you want to show it is not impossible rise to the challenge put before you.

We can only assume that the indifference to the challenge is a way of trying to deal with the fact it cant be done

[edit on 21-12-2009 by starseedz]

reply to post by Visiting ESB


You guys need to patch those leaks in your head. It's not for us to prove they are man made, it's for you to prove they are alien. As far as having footage of a UFO making a circle... I know the footage and it's fake. A special effects guy did it, he felt guilty that people actually believed it so he came forward and admitted to it... end of story.

Go find some other fable to latch onto mate. NEXT!

IRM

Are you having a laugh?
Not saying every single crop circle is man made in the sense of a group of people doing it with their bare hands... but you do realise that the people who do make will most likely all be experienced at it, and have methods to get it done in a precise, quick way? Getting a random group of people together and just making one is obviously not going to work.

These things have been cropping up (pun intended) for years and years now. If there was truly some alien phenomena happening then there's no reason that it shouldnt be extremely well documented to the point where people will actually take these things seriously.
If it really is aliens leaving us important messages, then its down to the believers to prove thats whats going on. Because I dont know about anyone else, but I'll sleep soundly at night knowing that aliens arent sneaking into farmers fields at night and vandalising their crops. Whereas if you believe something importants happening, then to some degree you have a duty to make sure the messages get round and are taken notice of.

The one thing I'd like to see with crop circles is someone coming up with a decent explanation for these -
1. Why post important messages in pretty much the middle of nowhere, where there's every chance they wont be seem by anyone important.
2. Why a field? The message could get completely wiped out within a couple of hours depending on what the farmers doing with his crops at the time.
3. Why is interfering with someone's livlihood an appropriate way to communicate? There's about a million other more efficient, quicker ways to get a message out.
4. We clearly are not getting what these messages actually mean. So why not make them a little clearer?

And please nobody say that we might not be as advanced so we just dont understand. If they deem us intelligent enough to communicate with then we should be able to grasp what they're on with. Its not like you would send a spider a letter telling it that if it doesnt move the hell out of your bedroom that you're either going to douse it with hairspray, or whack it with a rolled-up newspaper.

Here is the firefox logo crop circle. Done by Amatuers in less than 24 hours(and they were taking their time). It is also a more complex than most crop circles, because it's not easy geometric shapes which can be done with a string and pivot points.

I think your challenge is pretty well debunked. If a group of people with no experience could do the firefox logo in less than 24 hours, then the others would be much easier. Especially with a group of people who have experience.



The entire crop circle thing is dumb when you think about it. They started out NOT as communications, but rather they were supposed to be evidence of a landing. The circles were said to have come from the engines on the craft.

The "complex designs" didn't appear until decades later.

I believe in "other life out there" and even believe they visit from time to time. But crop circles are bunk. They were more believable when they were just plain old circles. At least then they had some kind of logical explanation for them.




[edit on 12/22/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by Eevee
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

HERE HERE!!!!

After all, it should be relatively easy right?

I would love to see this crop circle from 2002 replicated, now be careful when copying it, the original's beautiful!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fbab16d1f80d.jpg[/atsimg]

This one is interesting to me for 1 reason. It's not centered on a tractor line as most all crop circles are. If you look at the original 3 the person below the OP showed, you can see that they are all centered on or very near a tractor line which is a dead give away from being man made.

That one not only has a center without the tractor lines relatively close to one, but the center isn't folded down at all. It is different than most crop circles.

However, you can see the lines they made on the circle before they flattened some of them down. You can also see the outline, or "work" lines in the other 3 as well.

You can also see where they were flattened in different directions in sections. Similiar to the way they cut a baseball field in certain directions to make that cool row look, or sometimes diamond effect.

There are many flaws that can be pointed out.

[edit on 12/22/2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by badmedia
It is also a more complex than most crop circles, because it's not easy geometric shapes which can be done with a string and pivot points.

I think your challenge is pretty well debunked. If a group of people with no experience could do the firefox logo in less than 24 hours, then the others would be much easier. Especially with a group of people who have experience.

[edit on 12/22/2009 by badmedia]

This is the best example of how we CANNOT make complex designs. The challenge is to match the appearance of crop circles in exactly the same manner as they have appeared. That means they happen overnight, not "19 hours later and counting" as is shown in this video (around 4:20). Overnight means within 8-10 hours at the most. Not nearly an entire day. This is actually embarassing for the debunkers. They still cannot show where humans can make complex designs in a field overnight, and without disturbing or destroying the crop, without noise, without all the cumbersome and clumsy way that the Firefox logo was made. When you look at that, it is really a very simple design and a rather pathetic effort to duplicate something that no one, to date, has shown they can duplicate. Poor attempt...try again...

I would love them to do some of these!

www.tribalmessenger.org...

www.allthatis.co.uk...

reply to post by dereks

Originally posted by dereks

Originally posted by Gaudeamus
The thing to focus on is that there's no way these were created by MAN.

Whether natural, supernatural or extraterrestrial, it's plainly obvious that humans cannot create these ludicrously intricate designs in ONE night, without breaking the stalks.

And just what do you base that on? You could just as easily claim that no human could paint a picture like the Mona Lisa, or no human composer could write music like "Ode to Joy"

People did not do this.

Just like people could not do what I stated above....

I get what you're saying, but I think you missed the point.

Oh, yes...man CAN create these designs. But not in a cornfield overnight. Nomatter what angle you approach this debate from, you cannot justify that. You're focusing on the man's ability to create from imagination, the rest of us are talking about the timeframe and strange residual effects.

If I told you the Mona Lisa was painted to completion in 3.7 seconds, you'd tell me that was impossible.

You'd be right.

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Show me one crop circle that appeared over night.
Show me a field that is filmed continuously overnight and shows the crop circle just appearing.

Just one video.
Only one.
One.
1.
Uno.


Your challenge is a hoax, so how do humans compete with it.
You claim that these circles appear, complex, overnight.
So show one happening like that.
Prove it.

Please spare me the 5 minute videos with claims and eyewitness testimonies from "researchers" like Gary King or Charles Mallet.

One piece of evidence showing these circles suddenly appearing.
One.

Originally posted by Gaudeamus
Oh, yes...man CAN create these designs. But not in a cornfield overnight. Nomatter what angle you approach this debate from, you cannot justify that. You're focusing on the man's ability to create from imagination, the rest of us are talking about the timeframe and strange residual effects.

Here is a time lapse, overhead, infra-red video of it being done in one night.

Originally posted by atlasastro
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

Show me one crop circle that appeared over night.
Show me a field that is filmed continuously overnight and shows the crop circle just appearing.

Just one video.
Only one.
One.
1.
Uno.


Your challenge is a hoax, so how do humans compete with it.
You claim that these circles appear, complex, overnight.
So show one happening like that.
Prove it.

Please spare me the 5 minute videos with claims and eyewitness testimonies from "researchers" like Gary King or Charles Mallet.

One piece of evidence showing these circles suddenly appearing.
One.

www.youtube.com...

Now, if you come back with "CGI" or some other high school level debunking attempt, I suggest you provide the TECHNICAL data supporting your claim. A link to a website making that assertion is unacceptable. ONLY the technical data proving this video fake would suffice.

Originally posted by vox2442

Originally posted by Gaudeamus
Oh, yes...man CAN create these designs. But not in a cornfield overnight. Nomatter what angle you approach this debate from, you cannot justify that. You're focusing on the man's ability to create from imagination, the rest of us are talking about the timeframe and strange residual effects.

Here is a time lapse, overhead, infra-red video of it being done in one night.

Of course anyone can make circles. A kid with a yardstick could do it. The challenge is to make COMPLEX designs, overnight, without destroying the crop. Weave the stalks together as has been done in genuine crop circles. Throw in the magnetic anomalies as well. Show us a video of someone doing all THAT and you might gain some credibility.

So, you make a topic requesting for man-made crop circles. Two people come in and LITERALLY SHOW YOU MAN-MADE CROP CIRCLES...

and then you say 'oh well i said look, a complex design, with magnetic radiation and all that and then maybe i'll believe you'

how does one film magnetic radiation? How do you, in fact, even know that radiation levels in crop circles are high? wheres the proof of that? how do you know the stalks are weaved? pictures of that requested please. How do you know that the stalks are bent and not broken? pictures of that also requested.

I came in here expecting you to be open minded, but what I find is you're being terribly ignorant.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
This is the best example of how we CANNOT make complex designs. The challenge is to match the appearance of crop circles in exactly the same manner as they have appeared. That means they happen overnight, not "19 hours later and counting" as is shown in this video (around 4:20). Overnight means within 8-10 hours at the most. Not nearly an entire day. This is actually embarassing for the debunkers. They still cannot show where humans can make complex designs in a field overnight, and without disturbing or destroying the crop, without noise, without all the cumbersome and clumsy way that the Firefox logo was made. When you look at that, it is really a very simple design and a rather pathetic effort to duplicate something that no one, to date, has shown they can duplicate. Poor attempt...try again...

They weren't trying to do your challenge. Still, even without trying to do the challenge, they came pretty close to accomplishing the same thing.

Not to mention the FACT that these were people who had never done anything like this before.

The firefox logo is harder to do because it is not an easy geometric shape.

Do you know about Sacred Geometry? The most complex designs are often the most simple to create. Because they come from repeating a pattern over and over. The flower of life for example comes from the start of 2 points.

Within the flower of life, ALL geometric shapes, even those which go beyond the 3d can be found. This is otherwise known as metatron's cube.



And you can see evidence of this sacred geometry rules being applied in the crop circles. They are the flaws in them, and show how they were made/done.

That said, I have actually figured out how the one with the center not flattened was done. I don't know why I didn't think of it before. It was not done as 1 big circle, as the end result shows. But a sequence off center circles. You can see the lines.

reply to post by Visiting ESB





I don't need to get technical. I know who made that video and so does the entire Crop Circle Community.

Since this report was written, John Wabe was traced to a Bristol video production company, and caught. He since came clean about the video being a con, and is being prosecuted.

www.cropcirclesecrets.org...





Thanks for the laugh dude.

I haven't watched that video for a while now.



[edit on 22/12/09 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by LususNaturae
So, you make a topic requesting for man-made crop circles. Two people come in and LITERALLY SHOW YOU MAN-MADE CROP CIRCLES...

and then you say 'oh well i said look, a complex design, with magnetic radiation and all that and then maybe i'll believe you'

If you read my original post, it said, in part:

"Also, you must ensure that the crops will not be destroyed and that they exhibit the same characteristics as crop circles that are believed by many of us kooks to have been made by alien entities. Look up what those characteristics are, since you are purported to be the experts. "

Apparently, some debunkers are less than skilled when it comes to precision, and that includes following instructions.

And FYI, the videos posted here purporting to duplicate crop circles (genuine ones) are laughable. The Firefox circle was created in almost 24 hours. It is a very simple design and exhibits none of the characteristics I've mentioned in this thread.

Besides, my challenge is not to find videos of purported crop circle hoaxers or school projects. My challenge, for the millionth time, is to create a crop circle of complex design...with all the characteristics mentioned in earlier posts.

Originally posted by LususNaturae
how does one film magnetic radiation? How do you, in fact, even know that radiation levels in crop circles are high? wheres the proof of that? how do you know the stalks are weaved? pictures of that requested please. How do you know that the stalks are bent and not broken? pictures of that also requested.

Are you capable of researching this yourself or must I or others here help you? Try google for starters, or maybe another good search engine. I never said that magnetic or other anomolies should be photographed. The clear implication was that I (and others) am seeking EVIDENCE that crop circles, with ALL attendant characteristics including such anomolies, are human-made.
www.cropcircleconnector.com...
www.bltresearch.com...

Originally posted by LususNaturae
I came in here expecting you to be open minded, but what I find is you're being terribly ignorant.

Oh, that's fine, whatever. Just remember, the least "open minded" are the debunkers who refuse to admit, at minimum, that at least some (even one!) crop circle was not, or even may not be, made by humans. At least "believers" are honest enough to admit that some crop circles are made by humans.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
Besides, my challenge is not to find videos of purported crop circle hoaxers or school projects. My challenge, for the millionth time, is to create a crop circle of complex design...with all the characteristics mentioned in earlier posts.

Maybe you should offer up an example then, before you ask for it to be duplicated. I'm not sure I believe the claims of the originals, and it sounds to me more like mix-matching different cases.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
Of course anyone can make circles. A kid with a yardstick could do it. The challenge is to make COMPLEX designs, overnight, without destroying the crop. Weave the stalks together as has been done in genuine crop circles. Throw in the magnetic anomalies as well. Show us a video of someone doing all THAT and you might gain some credibility.

!) It's a fractal pattern. That's a complex design. The formula is certainly complex enough.

2) The stalks have been "woven". Watch it again.

3) Show me a video of magnetic anomalies in a crop circle - and then show me 100 other measurements from non-crop circle affected fields to PROVE that it's actually an anomaly. IE. Actually use science.

By the way, the timing of your "challenge" is quite brave - takes a lot of guts to issue a crop circle challenge at a time when the majority of ATS are experiencing WINTER.

If you've got any ideas on how to make a crop circle when there's no bleedin crops in the ground, and with the fields under nearly meter of snow out here, I'd love to hear them.

Originally posted by badmedia

Maybe you should offer up an example then, before you ask for it to be duplicated. I'm not sure I believe the claims of the originals, and it sounds to me more like mix-matching different cases.

That won't work - even if someone produced an exact copy, he'd just come back and say: oh, yeah, ANYONE can do a COPY....

Originally posted by CHA0S
reply to post by atlasastro

 

...only that some are...it's almost impossible to prove Aliens made some of them...

Actually it impossible to prove aliens did any of them. While we have lots of proof that humans do lots of them.

Pretty patterns or not, it's still possible that humans can do even the most intricate of designs. And who says that they only pop up overnight? Not all fields are constantly searched for CCs.

By the way, there wouldn't be any footprints because they walk inside the tramlines. Its also funny how many if not all are right next to the edge of the field.

If it was aliens, surely filling the whole field would be more impressive and not just a small section that can be done in a couple of nights by well prepared humans.....

[edit on Tuesday20092009-12-22T17:06:24-06:00pm3106200912 by thesneakiod]