Illegal for Senators to vote Yes on Obamacare

reply to post by kozmo


I am a self made millionaire several times over. The premiums come down because everyone participates. There will be more money in health insurance than there has ever been. The reason heath care is so expensive is the persons who do not pay. This way everyone gets paid, heath care costs drop and premiums will drop in response to this and increased competition.

I hope to see a health insurance office on every other street corner, not unlike those we see with Auto Insurance.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


What is broken with the current health care system? I have maintained health care also I live fairly healthy. I have not taken advantage of my health care ever. is it broken 'cuse people who don't want to pay don't have it?

I agree wholeheartedly!

Star and Flag!

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


allowing health care providers to compete over state lines would drop premiums making it mandatory, provided there are caps in the bill, would surly make premiums skyrocket because the people would have no choice.

Originally posted by kozmo
reply to post by clay2 baraka

 

Sorry, but the "Butterfly effect" hardly authorizes Congress to usurp or over-step its authority. By extension, my breathing affects someone's business in California... are you advocating for unfettered Congressional control over everything???

Did you even read the Supreme Court precedent cited in my quote or just reply to my comments at the end?

I am not the one advocating that Congress has unfettered authority over state commerce. The Supreme Court has already ruled that Congress DOES in cases where commerce would have out-of-state effects.

If you have a problem with the Supreme Court precedent in this matter, fine. It does not change the law. Only the Supreme Court has the authority to overturn their own rulings (or you can usurp the rule of law with a coup-de-etat as some of you are advocating)...


[edit on 12/21/2009 by clay2 baraka]

Deleted due to system double-post

[edit on 12/21/2009 by clay2 baraka]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean
It's not 'medical reform', it is medical insurance reform. I think the only thing worse than insurance companies are: #1 Politicians- most of which are #2 Lawyers. So let's take the medical insurance business, which is already heavily regulated by the government politicians, and hand it over to the politicians. Then they can run that segment of our economy into the ground. Have you looked at the federal budget deficit lately? We're not in great shape economically speaking.

Originally posted by Raven Hemp
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

What is broken with the current health care system? I have maintained health care also I live fairly healthy. I have not taken advantage of my health care ever. is it broken 'cuse people who don't want to pay don't have it?

Yeah, but you are probably one of us dummies that still work for a living (in the private sector).

reply to post by clay2 baraka


Yes, I read that VERY narrow interpretation of how this isolated incident could have a potential impact on interstate commerce. It's a non sequitur. So? Again, imparting a "butterfly effect" in no way grants authorities not granted by the Constitution - our governing document!

If you were intellectually honest regarding the matter, you would understand that government's involvement is the self-fulfilling prophesy that requires further government intervention. If gov't would just stay the f**k out of private enterprises way, they wouldn't need to keep coming back to fix all of the crap that they repeatedly break by meddling! The example in this case was legislating AGAINST allowing insurance to compete interstate! Repeal that ONE single law and watch insurance coverage become affordable for everyone who wants it - and for those who don't want it - they're on their own!

Originally posted by Polynomial C
You want to apply these 200-year old nonsense to a world that not only does not need it...

Indeed, the world not only does not want or need the U.S. constitution, its elimination and complete invalidation is essential to the creation of a global socialist system of governance.

The ultimate globalist/leftist agenda.

They are struggling so far in the passage and implementation of their agendas but are assured success through their majority control of government policy and legislation and top executive powers through the presidency.

The American people are their only obstacle, that and the time that they have to accomplish their planned goals. These things must all be completed before 2010 and implemented on or after 2012.

This may well be their best and only opportunity to set the foundation for global governance... Heath care reforms and energy reforms are their most important steps toward these essential goals.

God forbid anything like the U.S. constitution and/or the American people get it their way.

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by kozmo

 

I am a self made millionaire several times over. The premiums come down because everyone participates. There will be more money in health insurance than there has ever been. The reason heath care is so expensive is the persons who do not pay. This way everyone gets paid, heath care costs drop and premiums will drop in response to this and increased competition.

I hope to see a health insurance office on every other street corner, not unlike those we see with Auto Insurance.

I am trying to think of a government program that has actually driven costs down, but I'm not coming up with any. Care to help me out? What government-run programs have decreasing budgets?

Seems to me this is regulating commerce which is in the Jurisdiction of the FED and its powers. Since healthcare is NO different than any other business in the eyes of many... unfortunate.

Viva La Big Business!

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by kozmo

 

I am a self made millionaire several times over. The premiums come down because everyone participates. There will be more money in health insurance than there has ever been. The reason heath care is so expensive is the persons who do not pay. This way everyone gets paid, heath care costs drop and premiums will drop in response to this and increased competition.

I hope to see a health insurance office on every other street corner, not unlike those we see with Auto Insurance.

I am trying to think of a government program that has actually driven costs down, but I'm not coming up with any. Care to help me out? What government-run programs have decreasing budgets?

Medicare functions at a much lower margin than private insurance, although its rosters grow...

20% + in some cases



[edit on 21-12-2009 by Janky Red]

So funny how the right-wing has convinced the peasants to be afraid of healthcare. Of course, I expect nothing less from the people who overwhelmingly supported a b.s. war, domestic wire taps, and torture.

Say NO to healthcare and environmental responsibility!!

YES TO WAR!!! YES TO TORTURE!!!

And always, always ALWAYS support our President. As we know, thows who don't support our president are ANTI-AMERICAN! (unless of course the president is a democrat)

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by kozmo

 

I am a self made millionaire several times over. The premiums come down because everyone participates. There will be more money in health insurance than there has ever been. The reason heath care is so expensive is the persons who do not pay. This way everyone gets paid, heath care costs drop and premiums will drop in response to this and increased competition.

I hope to see a health insurance office on every other street corner, not unlike those we see with Auto Insurance.

I am trying to think of a government program that has actually driven costs down, but I'm not coming up with any. Care to help me out? What government-run programs have decreasing budgets?

Medicare functions at a much lower margin than private insurance, although its rosters grow...

20% + in some cases

It also operates on a deficit. Where's the money come from to begin with? Taxes, and that's not enough to cover it. DEFICIT. Let me know what government program that has a decreasing budget.

reply to post by butcherguy


Not to mention the number of doctors that have stopped taking medicare and Medicaid.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by kozmo

 

I am a self made millionaire several times over. The premiums come down because everyone participates. There will be more money in health insurance than there has ever been. The reason heath care is so expensive is the persons who do not pay. This way everyone gets paid, heath care costs drop and premiums will drop in response to this and increased competition.

I hope to see a health insurance office on every other street corner, not unlike those we see with Auto Insurance.

I am trying to think of a government program that has actually driven costs down, but I'm not coming up with any. Care to help me out? What government-run programs have decreasing budgets?

NO - health insurance is so costly because of the profit motive nature of business.
It is a middle man scheme where the cost does not reflect the true cost of delivery.

So I can ask you where is the decrease in premiums? Profit has been firmly in the black yet the cost has increased 161% in the last decade, care to help me out?

Man... I can't believe how pathetic some people have become... it really does show the difference between real Americans and those who came/come here to steal from our fruits... the foxes that are in our hen house and call themselves Americans. Some of you sicken me.

One of the MAIN things about our great Constitution is that it guarantees our freedom by EQUAL RIGHTS, NOT EQUAL THINGS!!! Health care for everyone is an equal THING, not an equal RIGHT!!! You buy insurance and choose it, you don't choose being born with a skin color or medical condition. Being black, white, spanish... missing an arm, have a bad heart.... those are human traits and conditions that should not exclude the RIGHT to health care, access to it or the ability to walk into a hospital or a doctor's office and be seen.... it does not mean that what I earn and work for every day, I have to agree unwillingly, without a majority of the PEOPLE'S VOTE, to have part of what I would give to MY CHILDREN RIGHT NOW, given to someone who might be in this country illegally. That is where I, most Americans and the Constitution draws the line and where we dive right into socialism... which is exactly what the Founders and the Constitution were hell-bent on preventing in this great country.

By definition, an equal right to health care would be removing the pre-existing condition problem, not taking from the HAVES, the people who work for their earnings, and giving to the HAVE NOTS. That is what is unconstitutional.

Most of the people who don't have insurance in this country are either in a transitional period (for example, between jobs, traveling, etc.), are illegally here or just flat out choose not to have insurance and pay for their costs out of pocket, which is what a lot of younger, healthier families choose to do since it is less than the cost of premiums and deductibles (look at an HSA plan). If you didn't just get your information on a blog or 30-second spot on the MSM, you can research the REAL numbers and verify what I'm saying is true.

The ONLY way it is going to change is to start using the law to file lawsuits and have your cases heard and eventually, it will make it to the Supreme Court, who are the only ones that can stop this from happening without impeaching every single representative and senator, which can't be done by the common people anyway. The Supreme Court intervened once before when government had over-stepped their lines (good ol' Roosevelt) and reversed a law thanks to two brothers from Brooklyn who found the government to be a bigger crook than the Mob! They are the only ones, short of a full-blown Romanian-style revolution, that can stop this now.

Remember, our founders made it very clear that a self-governing nation by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE, must be VIRTUOUS AND MORALLY PROPER in order for us to choose those to represent us of the same stature. If all we care about is hand-outs, free money, an easy life, material gains, Wall Street, than those are the same people we are going to choose and elect. WE THE PEOPLE have let greed and materialism infiltrate every aspect of our lives and so it is up to us to undo this great tragedy. It's time to be vigilant and start electing officials based on what they have done for PEOPLE, not the corporatocracy or political prostitutes that we keep choosing.

Oh, someone else said to Google Aetna and Blue Cross... well, hate to piss on your parade, but those are corporations and as such, have different DIVISIONS AND ENTITIES in each state, but technically, are not one single business operating over state lines, so your Commerce Clauses argument is moot. Look up the definitions of the "Articles of Incorporation" for each state that those insurance companies operate in for a better understanding of how they get around being regulated by the Commerce Clause.... insurance companies aren't stupid my friends, and neither are we. Time to give them a taste of their own proverbial medicine.

- Namaste

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean
reply to post by kozmo

 

I am a self made millionaire several times over. The premiums come down because everyone participates. There will be more money in health insurance than there has ever been. The reason heath care is so expensive is the persons who do not pay. This way everyone gets paid, heath care costs drop and premiums will drop in response to this and increased competition.

I hope to see a health insurance office on every other street corner, not unlike those we see with Auto Insurance.

Well a self-proclaimed millionaire should know that doctors are saying health care is so expensive because of the insurance THEY have to pay. Not because people arent paying their bills.

Proof once again that govt meddling increases costs.

reply to post by Janky Red

I am not saying that it isn't broken, I am saying that I don't trust the government to fix it.