Bashing Bush...

The desire of people to have a different opinion than the rest seems to be smaller than the desire to bash Bush, for Bashing him has become as original as the accord-scheme of an average Britney Spears song.
What I wonder though, is wether this bashing would have even been possible with a radical muslim as leader of the worlds super power, instead of Bush.

As we try to summ up how horrible and wrong the actions and choices of "our" leader are, could it be that we are forgetting how horrible and wrong other leaders are, compared to Bush?
I am not only talking about Saddam, but about almost every (!) leader in non-democratic countries. (and in a lot of democratic countries as well)
Corrupt behavior is so "normal" it's not even worth the headlines anymore, and if a leader is not corrupt, then he's either messing with votes or trying to take down his opponents one (illegal) way or another.

We as rich and spoiled human beings (compared to the rest of the world), often excel in the one thing we have least reason to do; complaining.
Complaining is easy, especially when you're complaining about someone in a position you will never be in. There will never be a way for you to prove you would have done a better job.
Complaining about Bush is nice and safe.
You can just fire your entire arsenal of ignorant lines at him (oil stealer!) and by the time people realize it wasn't about the oil you'll have your next 100 lines ready, more anyone can defend himself against.

I think Bush made his mistakes, just like every other human being on this planet. I also think I'm glad Bush is president of the USA, and Saddam (or any other similar idiot) is not, and that the worlds super power is a democratic one and based on christianity instead of an enforced one and based on the Islam.

My point?
Don't follow the "let's bash Bush" trend blindly, without wondering what your words add to what's allready been said.


[Edited on 23-5-2004 by Jakko]

Even though I'll never get tired of hearing the right cry "Uncle."

Perhaps, the day I Google the word "HITLERY" and don't time out after 3,390 hits (like I just did), I'll consider your proposal.

indeed bush is one of the worst failure in presidential history, possibly #1. but i think he at least somewhat tries to make the least mistakes possible.

yea, what has america come to. we always bash and scorn the unknown, we bash bush because we don't understand him as a person. i think bashing bush is also another conspiracies at work. we feed people the absolute worst image of bush, we never show his good sides

I bash Bush because he is an evil man, simple and plain. I bash Bush because he is leading America into ruin. I bash Bush because of the 200 elections and the votes stolen from Black Americans. I bash Bush because ther is simply nothing good to say about him.

Originally posted by Colonel
I bash Bush because he is an evil man, simple and plain.

Ah, and do you think he was born evil?
Or was he raped by animals in his youth? (such events generally seem to make people evil as well)
Seriously, even evil people have a reason for their evil behavior, so explain yourself.
Are you trying to say he's selfish/corrupt?

[Edited on 23-5-2004 by Jakko]

Jakko, you are quite right. Has Bush made some mistakes? Sure he has, just like every other person who has ever lived. The question should be "was he doing the right thing"? And the majority of people who are not simply slaves to one party or the other can agree that Saddam needed to go. He was an evil violent dictator. He had used WMDs on his own people for crying out loud.

The thing is, most people in this country simply vote by pulling the lever of whichever party they belong to. It is quite a shame really.

Colonel, I have a question for you on you're account of black votes being taken away. Could you please provide a link to some info on this - I am genuinly interested, not trying to start a giant flame war. Also, would you not also agree that many votes (US soldiers over seas) were discounted as well that favored Bush?

Why is stating facts called bashing? The man did choke, to the point of passing out and falling down, on a pretzel, The man cant be trusted without abusing alcohol, The man does boast about his not reading the paper, The man can't speak his native language(english) without screwing something up, The man cant answer a question unrehearsed("maybe something will come to me later") if asked, The man did crash on his bicycle.

Why is that bashing? It may seem like bashing to those that like to pretend he is presidential. Sorry, but these things are true.
If the leader of another powerful country had a leader like this you would be on the ground too. It's funny he is such a goof.
Come on, Putin choked on a pretzel and fell down, Putin cant have a drink because he doesn't know how, Putin can't speak Russian, Putin crashed on his bike.
You got to admit you would be laughing.

Sorry your patriotism has blinded you but it only makes me wonder how smart are Bush supporters. Maybe this behavior is acceptable if not common among his fanbase.

There is quite a huge difference between stating facts, and the anti Bush crucade that we're currently in.
And maybe this is just my ignorance, but what do driving bikes and eating pretzels have to do with the ability to be the leader of a nation?

exactly Jakko! Choking on a pretzel has absolutly nothing to do with leading a nation. But leave it to liberal democrats to try and insult him with every opertunity. Liberals, can't live with them, can't kill them...

Originally posted by Jakko
There is quite a huge difference between stating facts, and the anti Bush crucade that we're currently in.
And maybe this is just my ignorance, but what do driving bikes and eating pretzels have to do with the ability to be the leader of a nation?

If things were good and the nation was doing well I would agree a little mishap now and then wouldn't be such a focus. Maybe laughing at Bush is Americas way of getting their mind off the fact that he is simply incompetent.
The laughs are short, but at least their frequent.
When I heard Bush crashed his bicycle I've got to admit, for about a minute, I forgot all about the bad things that have came with this guy. For one minute he was right where he should be, face down in a tumbleweed.
Have you seen the picture of his face. It is so messed up, scratches on his chin, nose cheek, his palm has pits in it. Man, did he eat #. Thats funny, a grown man.

www.drudgereport.com...

I have read the subject author�s post several times. I wanted to be sure I understood what he/she was attempting to articulate.

Why is it I am so shocked and personally insulted as an American when someone makes a variation on the �Saddam is better than Hitler� gambit? I resent having my country being compared to the actions of a criminal like Saddam to justify the actions of our President. Do the folks that use this argument have no ears? Hear they not, what they say? Or is this behavior more an act of frustration then apologia?

Bash Bush? If that�s what one must characterize a factual recount of the Bush Presidency�s failures you can understand how desperate his supporters might feel.

Point in case: On this BBS somewhere else someone posted a news item �Poll of US Historians rate Bush Presidency a failure�. The poll was conducted by a semi-academic magazine focused on the subject of �history�. Interesting; but far from being an important finding. I read all the replies to the topic. A dozen or so took exception with the polls findings � all on technical grounds. Not one dissenter took exception with the polls findings. Rather telling I would say. Not one of the Bush proponents could openly assert Bush was not a miserable failure as President.

I do not post to question Mr. Jakko motives or impugn his integrity. I am confident he is one of those hard working, patriotic family man as are 90+ % of the rest of America. We are a good and generous people.

I can understand his consternation with the negative reports and din about the Bush Presidency. But I pose that he, along with other Bush supporters, examine closely what bothers them. And suggest it might be strong feelings of disappointment in a man who has not measured up to their expectations or fulfilled what he promised to gain their support and vote.

It takes tremendous courage and candor to admit one has been hoodwinked. But to continue to perpetuate a charade is an abomination.

A lot of the Bush Bashing is completely emotional.

Calling him the biggest goof of a President is a big step, I mean, we did have a peanut farmer who did actually preside over what most economists call an actual depression, not just a recession. (Jimmy Carter)

To say that Bush has done that bad is incorrect. Most people when talking about Bush are just ranting.

Fact is, we never even reached the esteemed status of "recession" during Bush's stay in the Big House. Many jobs were lost yes, but people, understand this. This happens, every 6 or 8 years. It just happens. Nothing can stop it. This major downfall actually began, (fact) before Bush took office.

Now would anybody care to admit that jobs are now being produced less than the full 4 years Bush was in office. Carter couldn't do it, Clinton didn't have to, Bush Sr. had it taken care of. Now if Kerry gets elected he will have the pleasure of using the job growth just like Clinton did.

Clinton did do a great job of keeping the industries booming, can't take that away from him.

Now can someone admit that things are starting to look up.

If you are talking to me I am far from emotional. I think and act in a detached way that has its consequences but thats the way I am. Ask my wife.
I didnt say the biggest goof, just a goof. I dont remember Carter crashing bicycles and such. And no, Bush has done that bad.
I dont care if you calll it a depression or a recession. I am of the age now where I see whats happening and if this fool cheats again and gets another nomination this country is going to revolt.
You know that tax thing always gets me,(as a business owner). Right now Bush is spending so much and refusing to collect taxes to cover it, its only inevitable that the next person has to call the notes due. It seems like the cycle you all talk about is the one party covering the debts of the other party. Until spending is stagnant or decreased taxes will have to increase. I mean what is Kerry supposed to do, the only way to replenish what Bush has spent is through income(taxes).

Things aren't starting to look up. They are looking up because more and more people are seeing what a failure Bush is but that is the only way.
Things are actually starting to get a little scary, if Bush cheats again. The damage this fool and his cronies will do in their quest for oil, without repercussions of a lost second term, is frightening.
I dont know about you but all hell is going to break lose around here. Gonna make the Rodney King riots look like a picnic compred to the martial law that might be around the bend.

Originally posted by gmcnulty
I do not post to question Mr. Jakko motives or impugn his integrity. I am confident he is one of those hard working, patriotic family man as are 90+ % of the rest of America. We are a good and generous people.

I can understand his consternation with the negative reports and din about the Bush Presidency. But I pose that he, along with other Bush supporters, examine closely what bothers them. And suggest it might be strong feelings of disappointment in a man who has not measured up to their expectations or fulfilled what he promised to gain their support and vote.

I'm a 20 year old student from the netherlands, so there's no patriotism involved here. There's also nothing that really bothers me, just curiousity that makes me wonder what this man did that makes him deserve the current treatment.
Here in Europe it's not any different by the way, most think Bush sucks. In fact most here hoped that Gore would win the elections.
Bush' days as a president are almost over and I think a lot of the good things Bush did remain unseen because of Iraq.

I personally think that Bush has the same look in his eyes as a dog that's about to go beserk on people, but that's just outside. I don't think he's as bad as a lot of people (on ats) want to make him look.

Originally posted by Jakko

I personally think that Bush has the same look in his eyes as a dog that's about to go beserk on people, but that's just outside. I don't think he's as bad as a lot of people (on ats) want to make him look.

I certainly don't think he's inherant evil either. Just a feeb. A stuffed suit selected for perceived reasons of charisma (which to a large extent backfired). Not a man who's life of dedication, leadership and determination exhaulted him to the highest office in the land, but one annointed to said accolades through politcal "stratergy" not of his own doing. As for the "good" he's done in Iraq, why thank the messenger? This plan was in place before PNAC selected GWB IMO. I guess they surmised, perhaps correctly, McCain wasn't a team player. Imagine that, an independent politician.

Originally posted by RANT
Even though I'll never get tired of hearing the right cry "Uncle."

Perhaps, the day I Google the word "HITLERY" and don't time out after 3,390 hits (like I just did), I'll consider your proposal.

now now rant...two wrongs dont make a right...but three rights make a left turn...

now go sit in the corner and think about that.

Originally posted by ThePrankMonkey
now now rant...two wrongs dont make a right...

I know. And I'm far from claiming moral superiority, or even some Klingon notion of vengence...but I actually enjoy the stand up of both the right and left wing pundits.

One day the public will surely tire of the artifically created divisions, but for now it's entertaining as hell. I never get mad, never get frustrated, NEVER take it seriously and pity those that do.

Originally posted by RANT
As for the "good" he's done in Iraq, why thank the messenger? This plan was in place before PNAC selected GWB IMO. I guess they surmised, perhaps correctly, McCain wasn't a team player. Imagine that, an independent politician.

Yeah, it does make me wonder, what decisions and actions came directly from Bush, and what's result of his team of advisors / manipulators / whatever you call it.
Can any president truly do stuff his own way?

Originally posted by American Mad Man

Colonel, I have a question for you on you're account of black votes being taken away. Could you please provide a link to some info on this - I am genuinly interested, not trying to start a giant flame war. Also, would you not also agree that many votes (US soldiers over seas) were discounted as well that favored Bush?

Whoa. I was about ready to go for my guns when i saw this---been a bit edgy lately. But, sure, I'll get you a link.

gregpalast.com...

There's more here:

gregpalast.com...

When you say �what this man did that makes him deserve the current treatment� I assume you refer to Bush and imply he is being subjected to something more then normal political criticism and as stated �being bashed.� BASHED being defined as �(Informal) To criticize (another) harshly, accusatorially, and threateningly: �He bashed the . . . government unmercifully over the . . . spy affair� (Lally Weymouth)
The assertion, �Why is Bush being bashed?� is not a question but a statement of unproven fact. Such tactics is debating trick which puts anyone who answers at disadvantage. It also infers that those who criticize Bush as being �unfair� with arguments based on emotion rather then fact and might be classified as �haters� (Another claim made often by Bush proponents.) adding an ad hominem attack to the �innocent question� even before an answer is given.
You�re not even in this country and subject to the barrage of Right Wing pap, yet you fall in their debating trap by mentioning patriotism as not being a consideration in forming your statement which is another myth and non-fact proffered by the right��.to criticizes the President is unpatriotic.
One can examine the �accomplishments� of the Bush Administration and form their own conclusion. I will not enter into a listing of his pro�s and con�s here because it is a pointless exercise. But what I will comment on is method and tactics.
I urge all readers here to be critical; assume every fact stated as unproven without reference; and even then double check the veracity of the citation. All should be aware of debating tactics and tricks and bone up on you logic. And be keenly aware of the physiological concept of transference because those who name call often do so because the ARE what accuse others of being.

If you do so and read extensively on both sides of an issue you might then be able to approach the truth.IMHO



[Edited on 24-5-2004 by gmcnulty]