##ATTENTION ALL 9/11 POSTERS##

Originally posted by Majic
Freedom Of Choice

Originally posted by freedomandliberty


If you consider insistence on polite, topical discussion to be "censorship", then ATS probably isn't for you, and instead I can wholeheartedly recommend any number of other discussion boards less concerned with maintaining reasonable standards of conduct.

The choice is yours.

Please do. It would be greatly appreciated. Also while you do that, NOT deducting points or removing my post would be also be appreciated.

Thanks

reply to post by PeterGriffin


People can speak there minds, there is no need for insults to be included when a member is giving there point of view or providing information.

Insults and trolling will get a member banned, no ifs and or buts. there will be no debate just banned.


[edit on 20/12/2009 by Sauron]

Agreeably Disagreeable

Originally posted by PeterGriffin
I could not disagree more. I say people should be allowed to speak their mind. I've gotten "points" deducted in the past from a MOD and I can assure you it was because of a PERSONAL DISAGREEMENT.

In cases like these, I urge you to first verify your suspicions by discussing the action via U2U with the mod in question. Sometimes mistakes or misunderstandings happen.

If that doesn't yield satisfactory results, then submit a complaint, which will bring the matter to the attention of multiple staff members. Please be detailed and specific, and bear in mind that violations of the T&C are not a "personal disagreement".

In cases where a moderator is shown to be abusive of his or her position, and there have been some, the outcome is almost always removal from the staff. But bear in mind, we get falsely accused of pretty much everything imaginable every day, so making a clear case based on solid evidence is essential.

Sweet Sorrow

Originally posted by PeterGriffin
I know I am not the only one who thinks this is ridiculous. - I'll admit, I'll still be looking through the boards but I'll also be spending time looking for a new site...one that doesn't have it's own government choosing what we can and can't do.

ATS isn't for everyone, and I'm hoping the message is coming through clearly enough. If the rules by which this board operates are too confining for you, then by all means please post elsewhere.

No one's holding you back. Staying here if you're not happy is unpleasant for you and everyone who has to deal with you. So just go.

Farewell. Aloha. Sayonara. Ma'as salaama. Adjø. Vaya con dios. Vaarwel. Zai jian. Auf Wiedersehen. Do svidanja.

Here's a going-away present:

Google: unmoderated discussion boards

Good luck.




[edit on 12/20/2009 by Majic]

Mod note: Enough. We can discuss this via U2U. I've ALERTed my previous post for staff review. Your claims will be addressed, but not in this thread. -- Majic



[edit on 12/20/2009 by Majic]

Wonderful News! In the past several months I have seen the 'class' of posts fall into the derrogatory, insulting, and down right nasty comments. Obviously people that can't get others to agree with their thinking can't defend their ideas with sources, logic, etc, then revert to name calling, derrogatory insults, and the like. Hmmm, like some people do this in political diatribe when people don't agree with their views on how the government should be run. My registered date may not look that old, but I have been coming to ATS since it was just a website back in the early to mid 90's. The T&C and Forum Mods are what has kept this one of my favorite sites just because we can discuss, argue, etc our views backed by sources and evidence without all the name calling, trolling, petty, and childish behavoir that plagues most forums on the net.

I am glad that this is finally getting addressed and I know there are many long time members that appreciate it as well. There are still other sections that need tightening up IMHO, but this is a great start. And I think that many of those causing problems are politically minded disinfo agents that don't know how else to defend their views and result to this type of behavoir, just like we see in MSM all the time.

Originally posted by Crito

Originally posted by bsbray11
That's a double standard...

That's why I'm not a "truther". I'm an al-Qaeda conspiracy debunker. There's no proof al-Qaeda even exists and videos posted on the Internet don't count as evidence.

You see, even the work debunk is an insult. It implies what the other person is saying is boolshiat. Civil discourse isn't possible when the topic is de-boolshiating your crazy theory.

[edit on 19-12-2009 by Crito]

Exactly! A lot of people join ats just to harass conspiracy theorists in the pursuit of "denying ignorance". They often lose the battle and resort to personal insults just to look cool.

It gets annoying after a while and makes a lot of people not want to post and/or start threads fearing the thought police will eventually gang up and beat you to submission.

Shouldn't we apply this to ALL ATS forums? It's pretty obvious that many members are getting sick of those who refuse to abide by the T&C by name calling, insulting, and trolling.

I just don't think this zero tolerance should only apply to the 9/11 forum. As the OP said, when you signed up to ATS you agreed to the T&C. I see numerous posts that violate the T&C (mostly name calling) but the posts remain and disrupt the thread.

To be fair, I think other ATS members (myself included) should start learning how NOT to react to these people, it's what they want.

reply to post by PeterGriffin


I can guarantee that you won't find another forum with the integrity ATS has (and is trying to maintain) if your purpose for leaving is to join a forum that let's its members berate and insult eachother.

You may say you have a right to say what you want, but ATS has a right not to put up with it. After all, it's their "house", not yours.

i have to say

GREAT!


glad the is forum will be forced to have the dignity and respect it deserves, maybe some type of beneficial thing will come from this forum now and we can move forward with investigations into 911

however i must say this should NOT be just a forum wide rule

this should be implemented across the board here on ats


its been a very long time since i have seen a thread that wasnt bogged down by ignorance, childish insults, and ridiculous bickering

i would be much happier to see ats as a whole go back towards a respectable community where the members treat each other and ideas with reverence and respect rather then jumping on this debunking verse truthers gang war that has been taking place


lately a thread cant be started without the 1st page of the post being almost complete nonsense, usually each post takes about 10 pages of nonsense before you read 1 page of worthy posts


like i said, really happy its that way in this forum now, but the heads at ats REALLY need to consider making this a website wide rule and actually enforce it with severity


it sure would open up discussion in the new forum without people having to worry about getting carried into a ridiculous petty argument over semantics or opinions that are presented over and over again as fact

this will be a controversial post


i will not name any names or point any fingers

but i would also recommend the heads of ats do some digging into the moderators also


i dont want the moderators to be perceived like police (all bad) because there are some great moderators


however there are also forums out there whose moderators seems to be pretty lax on controlling t and c, especially in regards to trolls, insults, personal attacks, and people adamantly posting over and over again opinion they try to push as fact


there have been threads about how ats "has been infiltrated" maybe not to a severe extent, but there are at least a handful of mods who may not have or least seem to possibly not have ats best wishes in mind


maybe a reassessment or a purging of a few moderators could help the enforcement situation as well


i am not sure if mods are paid in anyway, i doubt they are, but maybe somehow with some type of increased income ats could hire a few moderators to manage the rest, might improve the efficiency of enforcing the rules

reply to post by Dramey

I doubt the ATS Mods are paid and I doubt that any of them spend as much time reading the threads as the hard-core members do. You can't assume that just because you've read something that breaks the T&Cs, as soon as it is posted, that there's an online Mod reading the same thing. I don't think that paying anyone to be a Moderator would help to improve the situation.

Most of the time, the ATS Mods are spot-on. Yep, they do stuff it up occasionally and almost all of the time, they admit when they have made a blunder. They're human.

If you've been posting or reading for long enough, in the 911 forum, it was quite obviously getting out of control.

If I may intervene here for a moment, why the need for draconian measures? Are things really getting out of hand or what? I prefer the 5 strike out rule because we are all humans and prone to bad days and bad posts.

I hate to make a bad post and end up getting immediately banned. Granted there are some extreme cases where banning someone immediately may be appropriate but I don't think it should be the norm.

Posting intentions should also be taken into consideration. If someone keeps posting garbage with the intent of derailing a good topic then that is a big no-no.

At the outset here, I want to say that I personally endorse the concept of civil discussion and decorum. I think ATS is correct in initiating this policy. That being said, I recently posted on a thread where the OP was called out for not being truthful, ( by someone else ), in their thread, and that their post didn't reflect what they had espoused in previous posts. Their previous posts were evidence ( to me, at least ), that the subject of the thread itself was bogus. I commented on the evidence that the fellow member had presented, and commended them for calling out the OP. I wasn't nasty, I didn't "gang up" on the OP, I just commented on the evidence, and implied that the Op's integrity was in question. My post was removed for being off topic or for my implication that the OP wasn't being honest, I'm really not sure. I've never had a post pulled here in all the years I've been coming to this site, and I thought I was abiding by the T&C. I was shocked to see the U2U notification when I logged on. I felt confused about that, basically because I thought I WAS being polite, and yet, being honest about how I felt about the issue. ( I felt manipulated by the OP, and that I had wasted my time in reading their post. Once their previous posts had come to light, they appeared to be unethical to me, and my comment was aimed towards promoting ethical conduct here. Irony at its best! ). I feel that I've enjoyed a good reputation here concerning my posts. I try to post only when I have something useful or meaningful to say. I felt that my track record had been tarnished by the Moderator, but I didn't protest or make a fuss about it. I accepted the determination. I think the Mods should take this type of incident into consideration, and I think members should stop insulting and trolling. Having a set of standards does positively keep the BS to a minimum, and for me that ads to the quality of this site. Maturity and Ethics are tricky things to impose on people anywhere, but especially on the Net. I think things are being conducted here as well as they can be. Overall, a good call by Mods, but they should also not take their authority for granted or misuse it. Trollers and rabble-rousers? PLEASE go somewhere else.

If one is not allowed to speak their minds and they are policed by one side who offers "moderated" debate there is only one result and it is not non biased critical thinking.

Reading this post it seems that it is a 'win' for what one would call a truther or one who does not support the fact that terrorists attacked the United States and killed 3000 people.

This will not encourage better research nor will it promote good conversation. This is a forum for debate to find the truth and not a blog where people get together to praise what they believe in and raise the troops.

Hopefully this will help with finding those who do troll and repeat offend but not disallow both sides of the conspiracy argument of the 21st century to speak freely and one day, when the dust settles, see what is best for our nation and this world.

reply to post by esdad71


Really I am amused, wow, esdad71 all this coming from you?
I hope you mean what you say. And this is not a debating thread about terrorist attacking NY, we got your point.

This will not encourage better research nor will it promote good conversation. This is a forum for debate to find the truth and not a blog where people get together to praise what they believe in and raise the troops.

LOL, ok I used to believe it was a debate forum but to many people think their beliefs or opinions are truth and a lot of them refuse to give any evidences ( sounds familiar ) but to only come back and ridiculed or insult the poster because, they have confronted them for some proof. We are supposed to give source most debunker don’t like to, dont you agree.





[edit on 20-12-2009 by impressme]

reply to post by impressme


This site is about alternative views but an obscure view to you is an alternative view to me and/or vice-versa. This site is about debate and about denying ignorance which in it's simplest form means to continue to educate yourself everyday and never think that you know all the answers and that you are open to learn something new each day.

My question to you would be this however...Since ATSNN puts this in an 9/11 Conspiracy forum would that mean that they endorse the official story and they are placating the Truthers or does is mean they are trying to promote denying ignorance. I only ask this based on your response.With this latest 'rule' I am not so sure anymore. '

reply to post by esdad71


So you are saying if ad hom is more strictly moderated, it will hurt logical debates here?

Would be nice if they followed this rule on the other topics.
Half the time a christian posts they get insulted, ridiculed, flamed to no end and nothing done about it.

main reason I'm also more of a lurker than a poster, I mainly post elsewhere due to problems others have posted here have.

Conspiracy Theory

reply to post by esdad71

I'm not seeing how enforcing basic standards of courtesy favors one side or another. I'm reasonably sure that any point of view can be expressed courteously, regardless of what one may think about 9/11.

As for an inherent bias toward conspiracy theories due to the name of the forum, there really wouldn't be much point in having a forum dedicated to reiterating official government positions. In fact, most of ATS would cease to exist under such conditions.

That doesn't mean the official government positions on the issues are necessarily wrong, or that skepticism toward various conspiracy theories is discouraged, just that ATS offers a place where people can discuss conspiracy theories without (ideally) suffering ridicule or abuse for doing so, regardless of one's point of view -- pro, con or indifferent.

Unfortunately, we are currently falling short of that ideal, and members are being mistreated by others for holding different points of view. That is unacceptable, and that's why we're working on it now.

Members who are accustomed to politely expressing their opinions on the issues won't have to do anything different.

Members who are accustomed to attempting to bolster their positions through personal attacks, off-topic commentary, spamming, baiting, bullying and general ass-hattery will need to make adjustments or find a new place to post, because such behavior is not welcome here.

In addition to increased monitoring by the moderator staff, which is already underway, we encourage all participants in this forum to ALERT us to T&C violations when they encounter them. Doing so makes a difficult challenge much easier, and makes the discussion environment much more pleasant.

It's not easy, but it's worthwhile, and the feedback we're already getting from our membership confirms the wisdom of maintaining a healthy environment for topical discussion.




[edit on 12/21/2009 by Majic]

Courtesy and decorum are all fine and dandy, but what is ATS doing about professional 9/11 debunkers? By professional, I'm referring to those who spend ALL their free time ONLY on the 9/11 forum -- 24/7, day after day, month after month and year after year. Some even admit that they post from US military bases.

These pseudo-skeptics are not amateurs or private citizens. NO ONE spends their life defending a patently ridiculous official government story. NO ONE.

BTW, go see 'Avatar.' Except for re-enactments of false-flag U.S. government terrorism, it's an excellent film with a powerful message.