US won't stop Israeli strike on Iran: Obama

Originally posted by dzonatas
What kind of rationalized thought is there from an anonymous source. Oh wait, this is an anonymous official. Or is it that this source officially anonymous.

Let's not overlook the fact that if this source is indeed officially anonymous and s/he rides around with Obama, then there is suspicion that Israel officially spies on the U.S., at least anonymously.

I don't think you understand anything I've said.

This is about something reported as from an unnamed source:

"US President Barack Obama has admitted that the US would not be able to keep Israel from attacking Iranian nuclear facilities for much longer"

This is non-event provocation pseudo-news. At any point the US is not able to prevent any country from attacking another. Where's the story? what has changed? What has happened? All I see is some empty rhetoric that could be applied to any country any any time in history.

How about:

"A mysterious anonymous senior source has passed on this shocking revelation: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinajed has admitted that Iran would not be able to keep Syria from attacking Israeli nuclear facilities for much longer"

Would you get all hot and bothered, outraged and indignant, reading this - or just learn to recognize empty rhetoric when you see it.

As to Israel spying on the US. Well of course they do. Right in line with China, Turkey, Russia, Iran, Britain, France, and at least couple dozen other countries.

Just as the US has active agents, informants and leaks in practically every important country - including Israel.

There's a lot of double dealing and mistrust in the world. Is there some master list somewhere of which countries are allowed to spy on others and when it is against the rules?





[edit on 25-12-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael
I don't think you understand anything I've said.

Wait.

This is non-event provocation pseudo-news.

Your ability to finally understand at least this didn't seem appearant earlier in your canned Hasbara points, but still doesn't give any excuse for you to attempt to blame it on me for not being able to understand you when it is I that responded to the OP and then you responded to me.

Would you get all hot and bothered....

Why do I need to somehow confirm your libidinous provocations?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


With all your flowery sophisty, you did leave out one small important detail.

The past actions of Iran, its past retoric, its backing of Terrorist, it role in keeping the middle east unstable leave no doubt in anyone with the ablility to reason, that Iran cannot be allowed to posess nuclear weapons. In private I would bet the farm that many of the middle east nations are just a worried about Iran being a nuclear power as the US is. It is in their best interest as well as that of Israels that the US make the strike on Iran.

That is the only scenerio which holds any chance of limiting the ramifications of a strike on Iran. We have allowed ourselves to be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, simply because we once again tried the road to appeasment rather than than take action when we had a good chance of taking out their facilities and limiting the fallout. Now we find ourselves in the posistion of having to do it anyway with the odds and advantage strongly against us.

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

With all your flowery sophisty, you did leave out one small important detail.

The past actions of Iran, its past retoric, its backing of Terrorist, it role in keeping the middle east unstable leave no doubt in anyone with the ablility to reason, that Iran cannot be allowed to posess nuclear weapons. In private I would bet the farm that many of the middle east nations are just a worried about Iran being a nuclear power as the US is. It is in their best interest as well as that of Israels that the US make the strike on Iran.

HUH

past actions .... what does that mean?
past rehtoric .... what does that mean ?

Backing of terrorist .... Israel has connections to 911 , not Iran

Keeping the middle east unstable.... Which country is performing Genocide

at the moment .. Starts with a I .. has a L at the end ...

Bet the farm , I'll take that bet

Israel stated if they get attacked , they have a nuke for every

city in Europe

Sounds like a real golly gee country to me

reply to post by Phedreus


Back in Roman days Hannibal remained a figure that could conjure fear and terror to motivate the Roman masses well over a century after Hannibal was finally assassinated and Carthage finally fell.

Today Western governments simply interchange any old government or world leader with Hannibal to conjure up that same motivating terror in the minds of its citizenry.

The dictionary definition of terror is to use fear for political purposes and to that end there are none better at terrorism than the Western governments who have but to utter that slanderous accusation against any and all they are opposed to conjure up those same fearful notions amongst it’s citizens that the mere mention of Hannibal’s name once did.

What makes Iranian exporters of terrorism, because some anonymous official not authorized to speak on the record said so to some corporate media reporter who earns their paycheck through sensationalizing anger and fear?

This is sheer nonsense and folly and a sad abdication of the indomitable human spirit that causes people to validate such whimsical notions and contentions.

The fear induced by such irresponsible statements is after all meant for people to panic, to act rashly, to draw unsubstantiated conclusions and to act upon them but to who’s benefit?

The War on Terror so far has simply utterly destroyed the infrastructure and the lifestyles of two small third world nations at a cost of trillions of dollars to our treasury that has bred far more enemies than existed in the first place or ever would have.

Who has benefited from the War on Terror, oil companies who have enjoyed record profits from the instability violence in the Middle East causes to spot markets, the military industrial complex that manufactures the costly weapons used to stand off and attack citizens who are left with virtually no way to defend their lives and property and the bankers who finance it all and enslave the entire populations of nations to just paying the interest on those exorbitant costs, and you my friend fear the Iranians?

They happen to make great shish kabobs! Bring your own utensils though, they like to eat with their hands for some strange reason.

Israel’s existence to a certain extent has caused the instability in the Middle East; BUT HOW Israel CHOOSES to exist is really what has caused it.

After all it is Israel leading the propaganda war against Iran and manufacturing many of these claims that some people oddly enough fall victim too.

Like our treasury and liberties here at home have fallen victim to the threat of Hannibal.

You call that terrorism but the reality is one man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist, after all George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were considered terrorists in their day.

Today terrorism is most often used to mask another word, well actually two words HOLY CRUSADE, and it is primarily religious xenophobia that is exploited to affect these notions of fear in our populace.

I was born into the land of the free and the brave, and I am both of those things, free and brave, I reject the war on terrorism and the whole notion behind it.

What little bit of actual terrorism that does exist, exists because of bad foreign policy, hypocritical standards and oil companies, military manufacturers and bankers always looking for situations to exploit and dollars to make.

Ultimately as the Romans found out the only way you can meet the exorbitant costs of a far flung empire is through the rape and pillage of other lands and their wealth.

That’s the real war on terror and far too much innocent blood has been spilled to accomplish this.

What ever terrorism does exist exists in large part from that overwhelming propensity to spill blood to finance an empire.

Hannibal ha! When will people learn.




[edit on 25/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

How to kill a mocking bird! none of you play chess do you? or maybe you do i dunno.

Ok lets look at this aspect in a wider contex and not narrow it down to "israel vs iran"

Who is backing the USD? Well right now the WORLD IS .. who pumps money into israel? the US do.

If you think for one moment that israel is going to attack iran your not only insane but stupid

china will along with russia Destroy the USD for a start. then what? well we get all out war is what.

At the moment the USA has a grand total of 57 trillion in outstanding debt to the world, thats right 57 trillion.

who is backing that "loan" the rest of the world is thats who and most of it is CHINA and JAPAN.

why do you think the USA kisses china's ass so much?

The people who print the money couldnt give a rats about were you live or your history all they care about is CONTROLLING YOUR DUMB ASS via money.

So will Isreal attack Iran? Not a chance.. and when it does

you will see the collapes of the dolla "trust me on that one"

reply to post by 13579



Nice move , But I'll put you in m8 now


Israel is the most unstable , unpridictable nuclear country

They will attack Iran , its just a matter of when, it will be non-nuclear

unless they are losing after Iran counter-attacks

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I have to give you a star but i just wanted to point out something you said.

The dictionary definition of terror is to use fear for political purposes and to that end there are none better at terrorism than the Western governments who have but to utter that slanderous accusation against any and all they are opposed to conjure up those same fearful notions amongst it’s citizens that the mere mention of Hannibal’s name once did.

anyone notice the terror alerts have magicaly gone away?

and what you just stated is also in "art of war"

what better way to controll people than with FEAR

The people who run this planet are not as smart as they make out.

if you just understand the game being played is all about domination of the human population to further ones own agenda being "god" just has its always been all this becomes very appartent

Israel just like every other nation is in it for them selfs

its human nature to do so.. you see the underlying principle of war is belife

In GOD why do i say god?

because that is the core problem.

god told me to do it so its ok.. akin to hitler and them crackpots


war use to be about tribes going to war over bits of land they felt was "theres"

no one OWNS planet earth do they? No so why on earth do we name countries?

values.. history past present.. all tied in to GOD SYNDROME

deal with that issue.. you have 2 choices

become the borg or keep killing each other over inept issues like GOD

reply to post by Sean48


they will not attack iran.

thats a fact and its a lot cheaper to overthrow a goverment with a revolution.

remember mozodec? he was the guy in charge who wanted to NOT sell oil to the USA, he soon got the message when they sent in the CIA and overthrew him and installed the shar.. but now the shar aint so happy is he?

Did you ever think the uprisig in IRAN was by its people?

most of the students who are in iran work for the CIA and instgated it.

Originally posted by Sean48

.... Israel has connections to 911 , not Iran

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the major planner and co-ordinator of 9/11 knows of no Israeli connection. US, British, Turkish, French and any other intelligence services know of no Israeli connection to 9/11. Captured accessories interrogated know of no Israeli connection to 9/11.

Prince Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia, the primary funding agent of 9/11 is an unlikely collaborator with Israel. Nor is Pakistan's ISI, who co-ordinated the project. Project supervisor Osama bin Laden is a highly unlikely candidate for Israeli collaboration.

But you know something different Enlighten us.

Keeping the middle east unstable.... Which country is performing Genocide

Iran has actively worked on keeping the Middle East unstable. Russia makes it's own cotributions as it escalates oil prices.

Despite casualties in their ongoing intifadah, the Palestinian population has been rapidly increasing for decades. Life expectancy as well.

How do you define genocide? Maybe like the Sudan, where half a million black mostly non-Muslims have been systematically exterminated by the controlling Muslim government.

Israel stated if they get attacked , they have a nuke for every
city in Europe

Never heard that. Let me guess. A quote from another anonymous official?

As you are so well versed on the subject can you tell us:

What did the US state they have if they get attacked? What did Russia state they have if they get attacked? What did Pakistan they have if they get attacked? What did India they have if they get attacked?
What did China they have if they get attacked?

[edit on 25-12-2009 by mmiichael]

reply to post by mmiichael


I dont want to go into the 911 role thing here myself but here is some info.

There are 2 kinds of people on this planet ones who worship saten an ones who worship god.

Now why or how that has anything to do with 911 or isreal or whatever is what you may ask?

The US goverment contracts out its evesdropping to a Isreal based company in fact most goverments do "zionests" muslims call them or most nitwits..

A zionest is NOT a jew.. its a GROUP of people who claim to be JEWISH

Just like them idiots who blow people up claim to be MUSLIM when they are not.. they are just missguided fools..

So how does one get to a point were isreal wants to destroy iran? mm

Well. iran does not like how isreal treats the palastinans for a start "mind you most of the world dont"

2nd isreal is scared that iran will nuke them "thats never going to happen" just so you know

So why?

MONEY is why

if iran started "and is going to" start selling what they make in euros you going to see some fun! no more dollas for little isreal anymore ; )

just like iraq ? why mention iraq i hear you cry.. Just be for the invation of iraq

sadam was going to start selling oil in EUROS

reply to post by 13579

This is not about religion but about MONEY

Please do not deceive yourself there my friend for you see the U.S. Dollar emblazoned with “In G-d We Trust” is all about religion.

In fact the U.S. Dollar is all part of a religious ceremony as it is not attached to anything of wealth or intrinsic value. Its only value is perceived which defined means illusionary as it is a fiat de facto instrument of debt, not value or wealth.

Why would an instrument of debt have fluctuating value? A value merely based upon shared perceptions? In part because “In G-d We Trust”.

Yet what really makes our instrument of debt worthless paper currency fluctuate in value is how that debt can be used, yes used to effectuate and manipulate enslaving control over the masses.

Our notions of indebtedness are myriad and peculiar. Israel has a right to exist on stolen land and to displace people because of what Germans did to Jews four generations ago? They are owed a perceived debt, coincidentally a religious debt.

We are in debt to G-d because his reputed son died on a Roman cross for our sins? Once again that same G-d who we are extolled to trust on our instrument of debt currency is conjured.

We are in debt to the Chinese for accepting a whole host of cheap unregulated substandard and dangerous goods that they received technology and advancements to their infrastructure and lifestyle learning to produce. Some how we owe them for that in fictional instrument of debt paper attached to nothing of intrinsic value emblazoned with “In G-d We Trust.”

Debt in fact and the notions of what debt means enslaves us all to a group of ever changing people called creditors who covet not our money, but what really has intrinsic value, the output and production of human beings and those very human beings themselves.

Human beings who always owe some kind of debt to come kind of creditor that can extol the debtor to do their bidding and thus gain control of their output and labor and enjoy that power and to a lesser extent the prestige that comes along with that control.

It is an insidious system aimed at enslaving people and robbing them of their freewill and right to self determination and all but damning them to some internal and eternal struggle of indebtedness of a nature and a kind that they can truly never repay to gain their complete freedom and independence but must always work towards appeasing that creditor they have been manipulated through this system into believing they owe that debt.

Religion is the very heart of this system, and it is no coincidence that the Federal Reserve is incorporated in the State of Delaware as a Religious Non-Profit Corporation. After all how could one truly profit of anything of intrinsic value through the minting and control of worthless paper?

They can’t, the real profit comes through being the creditor that creates all that debt.

Religion is at the very heart of our financial system and the dark and unspeakable truth is ISRAEL IS AT THE HEART of this religion. It is after all their G-d we are all extolled to trust in that is emblazoned across our currency.

The truth shall set you free and it is but one of many things of the greatest inherent value that money can not buy!





[edit on 25/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by 13579
There are 2 kinds of people on this planet ones who worship saten an ones who worship god.

Oh jeez... only 2 kinds... well there goes the rest of your post.
Here's how the phrase goes:
There are three kinds of people, those who can count and those who can't.
And well, there are more that 2 kinds of people who worship so... maybe you can rethink your theory. Probably not.

Delta plane incident today.

This documentary explains everything like it is.
Jews having everything they want from freedom to leaving Iran and ther returning. It has nothing to do with jews and the jew persecution, the problem is Israel and this vid shows some facts.


Young Iranian jewish people protesting Israel


[edit on 25-12-2009 by pepsi78]

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

With all your flowery sophisty, you did leave out one small important detail.

The past actions of Iran, its past retoric, its backing of Terrorist, it role in keeping the middle east unstable leave no doubt in anyone with the ablility to reason, that Iran cannot be allowed to posess nuclear weapons. In private I would bet the farm that many of the middle east nations are just a worried about Iran being a nuclear power as the US is. It is in their best interest as well as that of Israels that the US make the strike on Iran.

That is the only scenerio which holds any chance of limiting the ramifications of a strike on Iran. We have allowed ourselves to be forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, simply because we once again tried the road to appeasment rather than than take action when we had a good chance of taking out their facilities and limiting the fallout. Now we find ourselves in the posistion of having to do it anyway with the odds and advantage strongly against us.

The US & Iran both back violent proxy groups, like many nations... the idea that it's only "terrorism" when Iran does it is laughable.

The #2 nation for keeping the mid east unstable is 6000+ miles away: united states... starting illegal wars, killing people, installing / propping puppet govts, stupid resource wasting occupations... #1 would be israel.. which is a simple matter of violent rejection by the locals.

If there was a mid east referendum, the people would vote israel off the map... of course the US insures the peoples will gets diluted in political verbal vomit.

Iran had a democratically elected president, until the US overthrew him and installed a dictator.. who knows, the democracy vibe could have spread all through out the mid east if not for US interference. Iranians wake up every day living under insane mullah control because uncle sam strangled Irans democracy in the crib... what history does Iran have of doing this?..

The US govt will stop communism or democracy from spreading... democracy in the mid east is NOT in the USs best interests: puppets and controllable sociopath bozos are.

Which nation exports more death, violence and mid east instability: Iran or the USA? Iran hasn't started a war in generations, have zero motivation to nuke muslim holy land occupied by israel, and compared to the violence of the US are pacifistic kittens.

This silly propaganda drama is to keep Iran from adequately defending itself from US policy of "regime change". All this static is WMD / gulf of tonkin / 911 malarkey.. how can anyone believe anything the US gov says?, history shows us they lie large, this is just their latest smattering of lameness.

Wow, so much anti-Americanism today.

Iran is an Islamic Republic, not a democracy.

Originally posted by pepsi78
This documentary explains everything like it is.

Jews having everything they want from freedom to leaving Iran and ther returning. It has nothing to do with jews and the jew persecution, the problem is Israel and this vid shows some facts.

Why do you think a couple Iranian propaganda Youtubes can somehow change what the whole world has watched happening in the last 30 years.

Since the Islamic Revolution, 85-90% of the Jewish population, many whose families lived as Persians have for hundreds even thousands of year have fled the country. They don't want to be there any more. They're gone.

Do you need a Youtube to explain arithmetic?

www.nytimes.com...

RISING REPRESSION SWELLS THE FLOW OF JEWISH EMIGRATION FROM IRAN

THE NEW YORK TIMES Foreign Desk

November 17, 1986

"Persecution of Jews in Iran has reached such intensity that hundreds of them have joined a much larger exodus of Moslem Iranians fleeing the country, according to refugee officials here.

While Jews have been leaving Iran since the popular upheaval that overthrew Shah Mohammed Riza Pahlevi in early 1979 ..."

[edit on 25-12-2009 by mmiichael]

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by Sean48

.... Israel has connections to 911 , not Iran

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the major planner and co-ordinator of 9/11 knows of no Israeli connection. US, British, Turkish, French and any other intelligence services know of no Israeli connection to 9/11. Captured accessories interrogated know of no Israeli connection to 9/11.

((snip))

When was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed found guilty the "american way"?, i.e fair open process with rules of evidence and the ability to confront his accusers all under the premise he is innocent until proven otherwise.

Oh yeah, he hasn't... and the crimes of 9/11 remain unsolved.

The notorious epic liars in the US govt alleges he is guilty, and that's it. He's an innocent man awaiting trial who has been tortured by his accusers at least 183 times.

Must be nice having the power to accuse someone of a crime, incarcerate him denied due process, then torture him into confessing... and we thought the days where tyrants like King George administered justice were long gone..

Originally posted by JJay55
Wow, so much anti-Americanism today.

Iran is an Islamic Republic, not a democracy.

More like anti-US criminal elite.. the american people wouldn't sanction usurping the will of the people by ousting their democratically elected leader.

"Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away"
www.commondreams.org...
It was Washington that forced Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, a man who cared as much for his country as he did for the rule of law and democracy, to spend the rest of his life under house arrest. We gave to the Iranian people the corrupt regime of the shah and his savage secret police and the primitive clerics that rose out of the swamp of the dictator’s Iran. Iranians know they once had a democracy until we took it away.

We are the biggest problem in the Middle East. We have through our cruelty and violence created and legitimized the Mahmoud Ahmadinejads and the Osama bin Ladens. The longer we lurch around the region dropping iron fragmentation bombs and seizing Muslim land the more these monsters, reflections of our own distorted image, will proliferate.

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by JJay55
Wow, so much anti-Americanism today.

Iran is an Islamic Republic, not a democracy.

More like anti-US criminal elite.. the american people wouldn't sanction usurping the will of the people by ousting their democratically elected leader.

"Iran Had a Democracy Before We Took It Away"
www.commondreams.org...
It was Washington that forced Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, a man who cared as much for his country as he did for the rule of law and democracy, to spend the rest of his life under house arrest. We gave to the Iranian people the corrupt regime of the shah and his savage secret police and the primitive clerics that rose out of the swamp of the dictator’s Iran. Iranians know they once had a democracy until we took it away.

Evil Satanic America Story #48279

As usual there's far more to the story than the mythology of the CIA taking out Mossadegh. Iranians became afraid and disenchanted as Mossadegh's anti-British hardline stance bluff brought the economy to it's knees. The British held fast, the plan backfired, Mossadegh's ministers abandoned him.
In the end, the poorest Iranians were not supportive of what they saw as elitist political gamesmanship at their expense.

Mossadegh was a remarkable politician, but operating at the height of the Cold War when a grave concern was Iran coming under the control of a waiting in the wings Soviet Union.

Few realize he was actually sympathetic to the US as people's democracy and that in his later writings he never blamed them for his downfall.

cgi.stanford.edu...

Loy Henderson, the US ambassador to Tehran at the time, makes it abundantly clear in his dispatches to the State Department that Mossadegh was overthrown by a popular uprising which started from the poorest districts of the Iranian capital. Henderson’s reports have been published in a book of more than 100 pages, translated into Persian and published in Iran. The Iranian public, therefore, has a more balanced view of the events than its American counterpart which is fed recycled claims by former CIA operatives. British and Soviet accounts at the time also make it clear that Mossadegh had fallen victim to his own hubris which antagonized his allies and forced the Iranian people into revolt.

More than 100 books, by Iranian and American scholars, give the lie to the CIA operatives ‘’self-congratulatory” account.

Barry Rubin writes, “It cannot be said that the United States overthrew Mossadegh and replaced him with the Shah… Overthrowing Mossadegh was like pushing an open door.” Gary Sick writes, ”The belief that the United States had single-handedly imposed a harsh tyrant on a reluctant populace became one of the central myths of the relationship, particularly as viewed from Iran.” Amir Taheri writes, “What happened was not a successful conclusion of a (CIA) conspiracy but a genuine uprising provoked by economic hardship, political fear and religious prejudice.” Richard Helms, long time CIA director, told a BBC television program that ”the agency did not counter rumours in Iran because the Iranian episode looked like a success.

At the time, of course, agency needed some success, especially to counter fiascos as the Bay of Pigs.” Even Donald Wilber, the CIA operative whose ‘’secret report” has been given top billing by the New York Times, makes it clear that whatever he and his CIA colleagues were up to in Tehran at the time simply failed. Wilbert writes, “headquarters spent a day featured by depression and despair… The message sent to Tehran on the night of August 18 said that the operation has been tried and failed and that contrary operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.”

Mossadegh was overthrown on 19 August when hundreds of thousands of Tehranis [Iranians] poured into the streets to demand his departure and the return of the Shah. This was not a military ”coup d’etat,” since there was no change in the constitution or any of the structures of the Iranian state. Nor was the Shah’s position as head of state affected. Under the constitution of 1906 the Shah had the power to name and dismiss prime ministers. He simply exercised that power by dismissing Mossadegh and nominating Zahedi in a perfectly legal and constitutional manner… Mossadegh tried to resist his dismissal but was swept away by the masses.

The army played a supportive role in the anti-Mossadegh uprising and even then only after the people had taken the initiative. At the time my father was no longer on active service, having retired from the armed forces and engaged in political activities as a senator and leader of the anti-Mossadegh coalition. Mossadegh himself held the portfolio of Defence and enjoyed the support of many key officers of the armed forces, including the Chief of Staff appointed by himself.

Anyone who had studied the history of the turbulent years would also know that Mossadegh was the most pro-American senior politician Iran had produced. He was the darling of the Truman Administration which raised the amount of aid to Iran, distributed through Point IV, from half a million dollars to 23 million dollars. On August 18, 1953, a day before Mossadegh fell, Henderson met him and offered him an emergency loan of 10 million dollars on behalf of the Eisenhower Administration.

Mossadegh himself never blamed the Americans for his downfall. He was intelligent enough to know why his political career led into an impasse. The anti-Mossadegh coalition did, of course, look to the United States, as the leader of the Free World, to counter any ore than the Soviets might have, made at the time to intervene in what was a domestic Iranian power struggle. From a geo-strategic point of view, therefore the anti-Mossadegh coalition regarded itself as part of the Free World. But does that mean that all those who fought Communism and upheld the cause of liberty throughout the Cold War were manipulated by the CIA?