U.S. National Debt Tops Debt Limit

U.S. National Debt Tops Debt Limit

www.cbsnews.com

(Updated 5:45 p.m. ET) The latest calculation of the National Debt as posted by the Treasury Department has - at least numerically - exceeded the statutory Debt Limit approved by Congress last February as part of the Recovery Act stimulus bill.

The ceiling was set at $12.104 trillion dollars. The latest posting by Treasury shows the National Debt at nearly $12.135 trillion.

A senior Treasury official told CBS News that the department has some "extraordinary accounting tools" ...

(visit the link for the full news article)

"extraordinary accounting tools" eh?

Do they leap tall buildings in single bounds? Faster than a speeding bullet?

This is not the first time such a "technical default" has happened.

The debt ceiling has risen $4 trillion since I posted about this 5 years ago US: Debt to hit $8.2 trillion on Monday.

It's now over $12.104 trillion.

I believe they are looking for another $2 trillion dollar tranche this time around.

Remember, the assets backing this debt are yours.
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www.cbsnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 16 Dec 09 by Gools]

I don't think they will pull off operating the national government for more than 2-3 more years. How can they with no money?

Relax, all is well, again. The House averted catastrophe by just voting to raise the credit limit!

House Backs $290 Billion Increase in Federal Debt Limit

The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday passed legislation giving the federal government the ability to borrow a whopping $290 billion to finance its operations for just six additional weeks.

The 218-214 vote sends the must-pass bill to the Senate, which is expected to approve it as its last act before adjourning for the year. The alternative would be a market-rattling, first-ever default on U.S. obligations.

The measure is needed as a result of the out-of-control budget deficit, which registered $1.4 trillion for the budget year that ended in September. The current debt ceiling is $12.1 trillion and is set to be reached by Dec. 31.

Democrats had hoped to pass a far larger increase of almost $2 trillion to avoid another vote before next year's midterm elections -- and to wrap the increase into the popular defense appropriations bill to give some political cover.

www.foxnews.com...

These people really make me furious.


[edit on 16-12-2009 by WTFover]

reply to post by Donnie Darko


How can they with no money?

This could be done with Mandatory Voluntary Service. Witch sounds familiar because I could have swore I heard someone talking about mandatory Voluntary Service a year back or so.

When the federal gov. can not pay workers to govern... Just make people do it for free... What other choice would they have, short of foreign "help" .

So, do you think we'll be discussing the $16 trillion dollar debt 5 years from now, or struggling to start a fire in some makeshift shelter in the woods, far far away from the panic and chaos in the cities? Hopefully neither...

Now, do the FEDs just push a button on their funny-money-monopoly-dollar machine and create more imaginary money to pay off this debt? I mean really, how long do they think they can perpetuate such a corrupt system?

The U.S. House of Representatives on Wednesday passed legislation giving the federal government the ability to borrow a whopping $290 billion to finance its operations for just six additional weeks.

6 more weeks eh?

That should put it right around the time of Obama's "State of the Union" speech.

While everybody is busy falling all over themselves defending their side of the political dividing line against the heathens of the other "side" (isn't everybody a taxpayer?) the debt ceiling will be quietly raised and no one will squeak or they'll claim that it's a necessary evil.

There is massive inflation coming our way someday... call it a dollar default or call it rising prices or whatever you want to but remember that when they start to raise interest rates middle of next year you'll know the crunch is on it's way.
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[edit on 16 Dec 09 by Gools]

What's the main difference between the explosion of several atomic bombs and the economic policy of the G.W.Bush and Obama administrations ...? The economic policy will rip the country apart without radioactive pollution.



[edit on 17-12-2009 by CoolBlackHole]

Of course the debt is going to continue to rise, it's an inevitable and necessary aspect to our financial system. I don't mean Capitalism, which has it's faults, but I mean the banking system we currently have. If we continue to operate according to the same flawed plan than the debt must rise in order for there to be more money. More money means more debt regardless of the "health" of the economy.

This is what happens with fiat money, it's what happens when banks only need to back up 10% of what they loan out, when banks are allowed to record interest as profit when it is really newly created money, when we allow corporations to profit from debt.

When we allow the Federal Reserve, a privately chartered bank, to loan money to the US in order to supplement the economy then our debt will increase. There will always be more debt than there is money, that's how our system works. There is no amount of stimulus plans, tax rebates, or bailouts that will help the economy.

The only thing that will help is increased domestic industrial productivity and financial punishments for those companies who outsource over seas, seeking an increased profit margin at the cost of domestic financial stability.

Scary,
The government and fed are so cavalier about increasing the debt ceiling, and giving bailouts.

What some forget is, they dont have to back it up. They are merely the middeman.

Its the people of the United States that are going to be left the bill..

Long after these corporate theives have done their duty and gone home....

Joe sixpack will be scratching his head asking

'' when did I agree to that.... ''

So instead of cutting back on things like the two wars they are running, the US government decides that the solution to an oversized debt is to grant themselves more credit?

Oh, well, what do I know? Bernanke got TIME person of the year for 2009. The powers that be must know what they are doing...

I no doubt that the US will default on its debt some time in the next decade and the effects are going to nasty all right . My concern as Kiwi is that if it happens before 2016 when New Zealand books are expected to return into the black our economy may never recover . Slash and burn measures would be enormously unpopular and may not be enough depending on how things pan out .

Cheers xpert11 .

I fear the Union is destined to break up, the catastrophic economic situation of the federal government will effectively destroy the United States of America.

The frighting debt climate may inevitably lead Americans to distrust the experiment and return to independent republics or smaller unions. Of course, for a World government to work, the Unitary States need to be dismantled.

Aren't we closer to 23 million in debt? with around 2 - 4 trillion missing?

I think the numbers are way off, just my 2 cents.

Fox

The entire system is flawed. Bubbles, it worked at the time to stave off the inevitable. Now they have created a money bubble and when it ultimately pops, as it's designed to do, it's all over because we won't be able to use money to prop it up.

Each person has passed the buck to the next, throwing patches and band aids designed only to get them through their term.

The monetary system is like a rubber band, you can keep pushing the inevitable back, but one day that sucker will snap.

When it does, look out. The only ones who will NOT be surprised are those who created the circumstances (thanks Greenspan, for being a pawn in their game)

BTW, it's about to snap. This snapping and the results of it will be the vehicle used to introduce world currency (read: special drawing rights)

reply to post by infinite

Of course, for a World government to work, the Unitary States need to be dismantled.

Oh how dire and prophetic those words are.

Sadly, no truer words have ever been spoken. America must fall, or at least be reduced, in order to implement a global regime.

The American (as well as, other "privileged" nations) way of life absolutely must be reduced if we are ever to even things out on a global scale. Sovereignty must be surrendered, and the thorn that sticks in the globalists side is an armed American public, who will not stand for the voluntary loss of the constitution in favor of "the greater good".

Fiat "money" is nothing more than the trading of pieces of paper. I could trade notebook paper for goods if the seller agreed to their worth. The whole concept is based on perception and to perpetuate it, the people of earth must be disarmed.

This is where today, before our very eyes, we see the blending of the various policies into a cohesive plan that has been centuries in the making!

World war III has been on for decades, and Einsteins predictions are true. We just assumed that it would be fought with destructive weapons. Instead it is being fought with pens and papers!

Originally posted by Shadowflux
The only thing that will help is increased domestic industrial productivity and financial punishments for those companies who outsource over seas, seeking an increased profit margin at the cost of domestic financial stability.

And these haven't been showing much improvement yet, ...

SOURCE
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c1c61034f009.jpg[/atsimg]

Or our unemployment rate, ...




[edit on 12/17/2009 by Keyhole]

The notion that we are in debt is fictitious to the extreme. The U.S. Dollar is a fiat de facto instrument of debt that is attached to nothing of intrinsic value.

It simply has a perceived value. Kind of like some women perceive me as devilishly good looking suave and sophisticated while others strangely enough just see a balding over weight middle aged man!

The notion that we are in debt is simply meant to be used as a pretext for providing us with less goods and services for our labor.

Human beings, and the goods and services they produce are the real currency and have a real value to the very limited group of people that horde and ration the redistribution of that output.

Debt is nothing but a form of indentured servitude and that is why our government works so hard to create this illusion in tandem with the Federal Reserve for the sole purpose of creating and maintaining an enslaving control over us.

What exactly are we in debt over? Goods and services already rendered and already paid for with fiat de facto instrument of debt currency.

The fact that these goods have already been produced and the fact that these services have already been rendered demonstrates all parties have performed their required obligations in order to produce said good and services.

We must be honest with ourselves about the fallacy of this system and the artificial scarcity of readily abundant materials and resources that it fosters and promotes.

We as human beings deserve a better life and a better government and something called honesty.

Why would the government feel the need to be honest with us when we are so darn good at lying to ourselves for them to make some sense out of their lies?

When you look at this for what it is, a select group of powerful interests claiming that chits of paper have some intrinsic value beyond mere paper, you can not escape the reality that it is a system based on deceptions, lies and manipulations and that it is intended to victimize us and enslave us!

Rise up and embrace the truth that confronts you, we need not be slaves to this monstrosity.

Edit to add: Way to go Gools for stepping up to ShroedingersDog request for Mods to author more threads. Star and flag!




[edit on 17/12/09 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

Originally posted by Shadowflux

The only thing that will help is increased domestic industrial productivity and financial punishments for those companies who outsource over seas, seeking an increased profit margin at the cost of domestic financial stability.

Amen, Amen, Amen!

However, before this can occur, I believe the American people must accept their share of the the responsibility, also. It is a simple contribution. Buy American made products!

I can remember, when very young (a long time ago), the CEO of GM giving a press conference about the closing of a large GM plant. The statement that stuck in my mind was "If you want to know why we are closing plants, look at what kinds of cars are in our employee parking lots" (paraphrased) He, of course, was referring to the foreign cars.

Now, after we take this step, the next thing the American people need to do is to vote all the Rs and Ds out of office.

Trillions Of Troubles Ahead
If the government stays on the course it’s been on for the past forty years without a radical change, the federal government will soon have a $10 trillion budget.

In other words, the federal budget deficit will be $1.4 trillion. Just to make the size more visible, that’s $1,400 billion.

Our colleague Rob Arnott, who always does terrific research, wrote in his recent report that “at all levels, federal, state, local and GSEs, the total public debt is now at 141% of GDP. That puts the United States in some elite company–only Japan, Lebanon and Zimbabwe are higher. That’s only the start. Add household debt (highest in the world at 99% of GDP) and corporate debt (highest in the world at 317% of GDP, not even counting off-balance-sheet swaps and derivatives) and our total debt is 557% of GDP. Less than three years ago our total indebtedness crossed 500% of GDP for the first time.”

Add the unfunded portion of entitlement programs and we're at 840% of GDP

emphasis mine

The United States as a whole is spending almost eight and half times it's production output and that's before any expansion of healthcare or any new bailout/stimulus programs.
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