Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays...

Tis the season... Yet again the stores are packed with gifts for you and yours, yet again houses are decorated and bright lights fill the night with such a wonderful color. And as almost by some sort of cosmic appointed time; those who believe in Jesus rise up to assault the believers of other faiths in a non-stop war on Christmas.

Jesus is the reason for the season...

Without God there is no holiday...


Signs and bumper stickers appear from nowhere at this time to empower those followers of Jesus and give all those who see another religion as their life... A headache.

How can this debate rage on!? How can the followers of Jesus continuously rise up and stake their claim that somehow, the world is treading on THEIR holiday?

Have modern Jesus lovers forgotten about King Constantine? Or about Yule? Mithras?

Now I understand that involving any religion into a good subject can cause tempers to flare... But please, This is ATS! Lets keep it civil.

I really want to know how Catholics and Christians can be so up in arms about having to share a holiday that they themselves stole from Pagans, Sun-Worshippers and followers of other gods that have been celebrating for ever.

And all this is done while still trying to keep a "turn the other cheek" philosophy alive.

If this is indeed its the season for the love of mankind... If this is indeed a season of sharing and caring.... Lets share.... Lets care.... Let's not fall to the lul of some pompious preacher who yells how the world is taking Christmas and taking it from "their" religion....

Can't we care about all men (and women) and their beliefs? Can't we show the compassion for others that Jesus himself showed?

The thread is mine... The discussion is yours! I hope every person has a safe and happy holiday season. No matter what their beliefs...

First of all: its the people who don't believe in Jesus, like yourself OP, that are waging a war on Christmas. It makes no sense to say its a war on Christmas to insist that Jesus CHRIST remain a part of Christmas. Jesus is the reason for the season! Don't like it? Ignore it! But I think it'd disingenuous to celebrate a holiday if you don't believe in the actual reason for it. Yes yes i know someone is dying to say 'but but but its real origins are pagan' It may be true that people tried to water down the true meaning of CHRISTmas with pagan stuff like santa, elves, etc. But that doesn't take away the true meaning of CHRISTmas and that's Jesus CHRIST and his birth, reguardless of when you think it specifically happened. Since we don't have a time machine and since Jesus is still worthy of celebration, at least IMHO, then why not celebrate on the day we do?
And again, don't like it? ignore it! Or continue

reply to post by Jkd Up

Have modern Jesus lovers forgotten about King Constantine?

What about him? He "chaired" Nicea 1 and didn't really do much beyond that. It was a later emperor that forced everyone to become Christian and, if memory serves me right, making December 25th a holiday because it was already celebrated.

Or about Yule? Mithras?

I don't see how any of this is imporant. Jesus wasn't born on December 25th so Mithras' supposed birthday doesn't matter.

I really want to know how Catholics and Christians can be so up in arms about having to share a holiday that they themselves stole from Pagans, Sun-Worshippers and followers of other gods that have been celebrating for ever.

Christians and Catholics get upset because they're not allowed to celebrate Christmas in a way that they want. There can't be a nativity set up, people can't say Merry Christmas, and so forth. To say that Christians stole December 25th is a bit incorrect as well. The Roman Empire made Christianity the official religion. (Of course, you could still keep your pagan practices, you just had to be "Christian".) This meant that there was a flood of pagan ideas into the church. Because of this, December 25th was chosen as a church holiday. Why? Everyone else was already celebrating it so it was easy.

It should be noted that not all Christians celebrate Christmas on the December 25. That date is really only prevalent in western Christianity.

Eventually, the date just stuck. No one stole anything from anyone.

And all this is done while still trying to keep a "turn the other cheek" philosophy alive.

No Christian says that others shouldn't be allowed to celebrate their holiday the way that they want. It's just kind of funny when a menorah is allowed to be up in the town square but a nativity can't.

Let's not fall to the lul of some pompious preacher who yells how the world is taking Christmas and taking it from "their" religion....

Do you believe that the way that the majority of the Western World celebrates Christmas has anything to do with the meaning of the holiday? One could say that Christmas' meaning has been lost. In many places, in Christmas pageants, Christ can't be mentioned. Frosty, Rudolph, and gobs of presents can though.

Again, that's not to say that others can't celebrate their holiday the way that they want. But, to restrict Christians from being able to say what the "meaning" of Christmas is is kinda funny to me.

Can't we care about all men (and women) and their beliefs? Can't we show the compassion for others that Jesus himself showed?

Yes, any person can celebrate their holiday their way. But, these same people shouldn't get upset when a Christian wants to say that the reason we celebrate Christmas is so that we can remember and acknowledge what God did for us some 2000 years ago; he sent his son into the world, as a tiny baby, who would be the Messiah of the world, as the start of God's plan to bring all of humanity back to himself.

Originally posted by octotom
Christians and Catholics get upset because they're not allowed to celebrate Christmas in a way that they want. There can't be a nativity set up, people can't say Merry Christmas, and so forth.

You can set up a nativity? Really? You can't say "Merry Christmas"? Funny I just said it the other day and nothing happened.

You say Christians and Catholics get upset because they're not allowed to celebrate Christmas in a way that they want. This is a nation of laws. If people wanted to celebrate something by running naked in the street, they wouldn't be allowed to. You are certainly allowed to celebrate it in any way you see fit, as long as it's not against the law. In your home, in your church, you are absolutely free to celebrate it however you see fit.

Holidays of any kind is celebrated on and agreed upon date, every year there is actually a congressional hearing and voting that take place to accept a specific date linked to a specific holiday, and whether that date will continue or be a new holiday added to the list of accepted and recognized federal holidays.

I have watched it and it is pretty funny. Like they would make and announcement ok December 25th Christmas day aye or nay, aye gets yelled out and ok chair approves then they would bring up the next one, it only takes a few min to run the regulars holidays through, but than there are a couple that maybe considered to add to the following year, and those are funny.

My point is that all holidays are man made, all religions are started by man for man, to either brainwash there followers into a good thing or an evil thing.

Even the bible itself only celebrates four events as holly, all the rest are made up as time goes on. Christmas is the celebration of Jesus birth. The bible barley mentions this date, it happened this is how it happened moved on. The bible puts more emphasis on the resurrection, and not the birth, and this is the date and event we should be celebrating.

Jesus was born people brought gifts to him to honor him. This is why they push this date so you spend money and give gifts, but if you are honoring his birth, than your gifts should be given to him not each other. You can honor his memory and celebrate what he teaches by giving to the poor helping the homeless and so much more. This whole give everybody a gift you know and go into debt and spoil the kids does not teach them about Jesus nor does it honor his memory.

The Christmas we know today, should be sent packing, it’s a lie for the stores to make money and I repeat does nothing to honor our lord and savoir.

And all most all religions have similar issues because it is man made. We have been brainwashed to think otherwise. All people have a natural human nature that depends on others for survival and a natural instinct to help others in need, religion does nothing more than help that brainwashing along.

But I will stop here, I am a Christian, and by definition it simply means that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. Nothing more, if you believe he existed and died for you that is all that is required. The rest of church religion is a forest to make money, yes they preach a good thing, they make you feel good about yourself then they pass out a basket to give them money, this is not what Jesus church would look like and he is pissed at all of you.

Catholics are the worse, and there is not one catholic that will go to heaven hate to tell you as and ex-catholic you can just read the ten commandments and see all that the church brakes, they cant even follow there own laws, I give a sermon on this very thing. But here I will digress to others.

And yes I wish you all a Happy Holiday and a Merry Christmas.

reply to post by FunSized


First off Christmas is not due to Christ, the winter solstice is more likely. December 25 was not celebrated as Jesus' birthday until some 200 years after he died so Christ had nothing to do with it, someone transmogrified an older celebration into a newer religion, that was man's doing. Yes whoever they were used Christ's name and legend, but the man himself just wasn't involved.

Second I don't care if someone says Merry Christmas, Merry X-mas, or happy holidays; or anything else for that matter. They are all equally relevant. X being the Greek letter Chi and the first letter in Christos for those that don't understand the abreviation and how it isn't anti-christian. (I'd spell it in greek but I don't really get adding foreign symbols to a post) How does anyone get upset at someone for celebrating a miracle? I mean that is what the holidays are all about anyway, who cares if the miracle someone is celebrating isn't the same as yours; get over it, we don't all believe the same.

That is the true tragedy, over sensitive people that are offended by anything that they don't personally believe in. Well I say to all of you Knock it Off; just rejoice that there is still a reason for people to celebrate.

Additional side note, about the gifts and such. The wise men; of which the number is never mentioned, brought gifts to Jesus this is true; but, the star that led them there appeared at Jesus's birth, they then traveled from afar somewhere in the orient. They also dropped by Herod's first as that was the most likely place for a king to be born. Anyway long story short, the wise men where not there at Christ's birth but quite sometime afterwards and gave him his gifts then. So gift giving on Christmas day, totally made up and added part of the holiday.

[edit on 12-12-2009 by Histopherness]

Originally posted by drmeolathing.

Catholics are the worse, and there is not one catholic that will go to heaven hate to tell you as and ex-catholic you can just read the ten commandments and see all that the church brakes, they cant even follow there own laws, I give a sermon on this very thing. But here I will digress to others.

Maybe you should couple that sermon with another one on the temerity of judging others.

Eric

Don't blame the poor Christians... they've all been brainwashed.

Just because Christianity hijacked December 25th to celebrate the birth of someone doesn't mean I don't celebrate.

I love to decorate the house, buy gifts and have a feast with my family, but to me it's a celebration of family, love and the winter solstice.

reply to post by octotom


Do you realize how tiring this whining has become?

Christians and Catholics get upset because they're not allowed to celebrate Christmas in a way that they want. There can't be a nativity set up, people can't say Merry Christmas, and so forth.

As I look down my street in my small village there are many nativity scenes in peoples front yards, on catholic church property and other Churches.

I can say Merry Christmas, Happy holidays or Bah Humbug and no one has ever told me that my holiday greetings are somehow inappropriate.

Just give it a rest....please!!

Originally posted by Jkd Up
Signs and bumper stickers appear from nowhere at this time to empower those followers of Jesus and give all those who see another religion as their life... A headache.

I really want to know how Catholics and Christians can be so up in arms about having to share a holiday that they themselves stole from Pagans, Sun-Worshippers and followers of other gods that have been celebrating for ever.

So, you are irritated by signs and bumper stickers that regarding Christmas that are displayed by Christians? Very tolerant. Why so up in arms?

And you believe that Catholics and Christians (thankfully, I'm both) are up in arms about sharing a holiday? Where are you getting this from? I've never once heard a Christian decrying Channukah or New Years.

Seems to be much ado about nothing.

Eric

reply to post by Jkd Up


Honestly, it's so distorted by commercialism I find it hard to believe that it means very much more than gifts and festivities to many anymore. At least from outward appearances.

My family is Catholic, we celebrate it on a personal level in the most traditionally religious way we know how in a world full of door-buster sales and inflatable decorations from Wal Mart. We really don't concern ourselves with other people's belief systems. We are neither offended nor do we seek to offend in that regard.

That's not to say that there's isn't a lot that is offensive about this time of year. I just find that it comes more from corporations than Christians, or Atheists for that matter.

As Christians may well have derived their traditions from Pagans then I can't imagine what Christmas will look like hundreds of years from now. There's just very little belief or faith left in it at all.

It will truly be Festivus.

[edit on 12/12/2009 by kosmicjack]

The fact that people came before jesus, does not make jesus story false, how would it?

reply to post by FunSized


Hardly. There are many religions that have special holidays now, and simply saying 'Merry Christmas' excludes all of them. Simply saying 'Happy Holidays' includes everyone.

Jesus would have a hissy-fit if he saw how his followers are getting their knickers in a twist over this. Jesus isn't defined by words, or even a holiday. Surely Christians know that. You could call it 'Happy Jesus-Eats-Baby-Rabbits-Day!' and Jesus wouldn't be any less Jesus. It's pathetic to think this matters. You must be really insecure in your faith if this matters one iota to you,

I don't have a dog in this fight really, I just want to make two quick points:

1. There is no war on christmas. I am an atheist and I don't care. I like christmas. I like eggnog and drinking with family and friends. I like presents and the smell of the tree. If someone says merry christmas, I will respond in kind. I think that the whole "war on christmas" is nothing more than polemics and christians wanting to have all the political power in the US and still claim that they are the victims and that they, 80% of the population, are somehow discriminated against. Yes, I don't want the bible to trump science in schools (you cant be a biologist and not understand the scientific theory and fact of evolution). But what you do in your home, church, public square is up to you. And on this topic: really kids, atheists make up around 6-13% of the population. I don't think your god needs a lot of protection from us. Hell, the governor of my state (Georgia) held a public prayer service at the gold dome to pray for the drought to end.

2. The poster who stated that you may place a menorah in the town square and not a nativity scene is just dead wrong. First a municipality may place time/place/manor restrictions on speech but not ban it. If they allow a menorah then they must allow a nativity scene. They can just ban them all, or tell people where in the public square they may place their (x).

reply to post by drmeola


Where exactly did you get this inside information that Catholics aren't going to heaven? Did God personally tell you this?

How about:
Mele Kalikimaka me ka Hau'oli Makahiki Hou!

Originally posted by kosmicjack
It will truly be Festivus.

a holiday for all!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/39740e461b18.gif[/atsimg]

Ok em... Happy Pagan Festival... No that doesn’t sound right… I don’t see too many, Pagan themes, this time of year!


Happy Holidays…hmm ok, that’s close but people have holidays all year
round!


Happy er…Santamass lol….no wait, that doesn’t sound right either…





Happy Christmas


- JC

At one time in my work history, I worked in retail as a cashier; I was blatantly told "Do NOT say "Merry Christmas" to your customers. You are to say "Happy Holidays" to them in order to keep from offending anyone." I did as I was told (so I could keep my job). But, that didn't keep patrons from saying it to me!

reply to post by FunSized


Really I thought the "holiday season was all about Santa Claus" or that is what look like to me in the stores. I think in our nations consumerism driven economy Santa is proven to be more popular than Jesus.