Fourth Horse of the Apocalypse – Pale or GREEN?

reply to post by Oceanborn

Here is the Old English Tyndale 1534...

"And I loked and beholde a grene horsse and his name that sat on him was deeth and hell folowed after him and power was geven vnto them over the fourthe parte of the erth to kyll with swearde and with honger and with deeth that cometh of vermen of the erth." Revelation 6:8

Tyndale was the first person to translate parts of the original Hebrew and Greek versions into English...
...and he translates 'chloros' - χλωρός 'a grene horsse'.

William Tyndale was a protestant reformer who was strangled and then burned at the stake in 1536 by the Roman Catholic Church just two years after it was first published.

Maybe he was a little too literal for some.

Originally posted by On the Edge
Or,it could mean the color of Islam?

en.wikipedia.org...

From that very link...

These four colors, white, black, green and red, dominate the flags of Arab states.

Interesting... that's the colors of all 4 horses.

hey troubleshooter, could you take a look at the murals in the mysterious Denver Airport and see if there are any strange correlations with your theory...

A few examples:
gorightly.files.wordpress.com...
www.rumormillnews.com...
newsletters.cephasministry.com...


[edit on 16-12-2009 by lastmanstanding]

Originally posted by TarzanBeta

Originally posted by On the Edge
Or,it could mean the color of Islam?

en.wikipedia.org...

From that very link...

These four colors, white, black, green and red, dominate the flags of Arab states.

This is a bit of an exaggeration...

There are only four countries that have all four colors in their flag...

Iraq - Green, white, Black and Red
Jordon - White, Green, Black, Red
United Emirates - Red, Green, White, Black
Kenya - Red, Black, Green, White


There are also nine countries with three of the colors in their flag...

Bulgaria - White, Green, Red
Belarus - Green, Red, White
German Empire - Black, White, Red
Algeria - Red, White, Green
Saudia Arabia - Green, Black, White
Hungary - Red, White, Green
Mexico - Green, White, Red
Maldives - Red, Green, White

* Islam

reply to post by troubleshooter


From
www.religionfacts.com...

QUOTE:

...."The color green has a special place in Islam, and is often used to represent it among other world religions. One can often find it in mosques and other important places, as well as on the flag of Saudi Arabia. Some say green was Muhammad’s favorite color and that he wore a green cloak and turban, while others believe it symbolizes vegetation and life. Some say that after Muhammad, only the caliphs were allowed to wear green turbans. In the Qur'an (Surah 18:31), it is said that the inhabitants of paradise will wear green garments of fine silk. While the reference to the Qur'an is verifiable, it is not clear if other explanations are reliable or mere folklore.

Regardless of its origins, the color green has been firmly cemented in Islamic culture for centuries; for example, it is absent in many medieval European coats of arms, as during the Crusades, green was the color used by the Islamic soldiers. Additionally, in the palace of Topkapi in Istanbul, there is a room with relics of Muhammad. One of the relics, kept locked in a chest, is said to have been Muhammad's banner, under which he had went to battle. Some say that this banner is green with golden embroidery; others say that it is black. ".....


You're right,there is some debate over it.

Our opinions don't change anything,but it's an interesting study!

Originally posted by lastmanstanding
hey troubleshooter, could you take a look at the murals in the mysterious Denver Airport and see if there are any strange correlations with your theory...

Hey LMS, I had a look at the pics and read some of the reviews/comments around the Internet...
...I can see how you might see a connection...
...assuming the guy in dark green with the gas-mask is symbolic of a future event.

If he is meant to represent the fourth horseman the symbols are a bit clumsy (eg no horse).

I guess we will have to wait and see.

reply to post by troubleshooter


they feast upon the green grass... marijuana?

no im just kidding. (all in good humour)

No I dont think the writings of the Apocolypse in the bible are ment for now, or anytime in particular, the story can be adapted into any time or era, this makes sense if you want to keep a large population under constant doom, and keeping them obeidiant, back then the first NWO was called the DARK AGES.
This happened when an orginization called the Catholic church 'intended for good' caused mass destruction all over Europe. No one had an education, and everyone did as the church ordered under penalty of heresy and burned at the stake.

it was the first psychological weapon to deceive the public, and was invented by the romans from interpreted scripture from the holy lands.
these were not all accurate.

The New Testament was not written in Hebrew, it was written in latin.

Originally posted by Lavey2
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

The New Testament was not written in Hebrew, it was written in latin.

The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic.

The New Testament was written in Koiné Greek...
...the first Latin versions appeared in the 2nd half of the 2nd century CE in North Africa and Gaul.

yes but the one we now read as the new testament was the one written in latin.
this is different. Do you not remember the story of why the christians were stopped being thrown at the lions?

The 'faith' which is in the vatican, started in Rome.

Please watch Zeitgeist.

Originally posted by Lavey2
yes but the one we now read as the new testament was the one written in latin.

No it wasn't.

William Tyndale was the first person to translate parts of the original Hebrew and Greek versions into English...
...it was first published in 1534...
...and the Roman Catholic church burned him at the stake for his efforts in 1536.

William Tyndales translation was used as the basis of the King James version...
...the primary version we used today...
...all other modern translations use the Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek texts...
...with variations to take into account modern idiom.

this is different. Do you not remember the story of why the christians were stopped being thrown at the lions?

The 'faith' which is in the vatican, started in Rome.

Christendom has a bigger and more complex history than just Rome.

I suggest you read a book like John Philip Jenkins book...
...to get a sense of this...

"The Lost History of Christianity: The Thousand-Year Golden Age of the Church in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia--and How It Died"

Roman Catholicism and their protestant child is only 'western Christianity...
...there is an Eastern Orthodoxy...
...even an Ethiopian Church.

Please watch Zeitgeist.

Zeitgeist is junk history...
...the authors have their own agenda and offer an interpretation of history to suit their own philosophy...
...much as Dawkins, Harris and co. do with science.

Have a real critical look at their presuppositions...
...don't let them deceive you...
...Zeitgeist is 'cookie-cutter' history...
...they begin with a conclusion and then make history fit...
...you really must read history more broadly than this.



[edit on 17/12/09 by troubleshooter]

mark my words. the first version of a NWO was the dark ages from the catholic church. The damage was so bad we missed nearly an entire era of history, as no one was educated. This was a political means. I stick to my guns on religion as a tool for keeping control over the population.

ok you want the truth?

How about I tell you?

Yes there is a near apocolypse approaching.

www.timeanddate.com...

this is why the US is frozen over.


and also www.nasa.gov...

Did you know during a solar storm passengers on planes are exposed to MORE radiation than usual?

and did you know Australia has the 'largest hole' in the ozone layer which means it gets blasted with a load of radiation.

It explains why Australia has been so hot, and America so VERY cold.

It is expected that darwin, and Northern QLD inhabitants will either die, or have to be forced to evacuate in 3-4 years.

Of course its all going to be placed on global warming..... Penny Wong for Australia even SAID "WE NEED TO PREPARE FOR 2012"- Before her mic was cut at Copenhagen. (I still hate labour).

I've got the footage ill load it up.

But I stick to my guns on Religion as a tool, But it does not mean there is some truth.

its historical value should be appreciated even though most of it can be de-bunked in the new testament. you can argue all you want about zeitgeist, the message is simple. No religion=peace.

But I hope you can understand those links, and interpret it against other articles.


All up Northern Australia and southern indonesia is FARRRKED

Originally posted by Lavey2
Yes there is a near apocolypse approaching.

I agree!

It is expected that darwin, and Northern QLD inhabitants will either die, or have to be forced to evacuate in 3-4 years.

Why do you think this?

Of course its all going to be placed on global warming..... Penny Wong for Australia even SAID "WE NEED TO PREPARE FOR 2012"- Before her mic was cut at Copenhagen. (I still hate labour).

I've got the footage ill load it up.

I would like to see that.

But I stick to my guns on Religion as a tool, But it does not mean there is some truth.

Israel failed...but God expected them to...
...and built the story of the failure and their role in it into the very ceremonies that they rehearsed for 1500 years...
...Jesus relied on their failure to achieve His mission.

Something of the same has happened with Christendom...
...it has been a fueding family...
...splits and schisms, arguements over doctrine...
...but in amongst it all they have kept 66 documents alive and current...
...instead of them rotting in the basement of some museum...
...so that we in these last days can be warned of the events that must unfold.

The reality is not always what it seems on the surface.

its historical value should be appreciated even though most of it can be de-bunked in the new testament.

What particularly do you think has been debunked?

you can argue all you want about zeitgeist, the message is simple. No religion=peace.

Zeitgeist was made to a formula using stock vids and images...
...it was a commercial excercise designed to be sensational to sell DVD's.

You should also learn the difference between 'religion' and a 'Christian'...
...often these are confused and the distinctions blurred...
...Jesus was anti-religion and true Christians still are.

Originally posted by On the Edge
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

From
www.religionfacts.com...

QUOTE:

...."The color green has a special place in Islam, and is often used to represent it among other world religions. One can often find it in mosques and other important places, as well as on the flag of Saudi Arabia. Some say green was Muhammad’s favorite color and that he wore a green cloak and turban, while others believe it symbolizes vegetation and life. Some say that after Muhammad, only the caliphs were allowed to wear green turbans. In the Qur'an (Surah 18:31), it is said that the inhabitants of paradise will wear green garments of fine silk. While the reference to the Qur'an is verifiable, it is not clear if other explanations are reliable or mere folklore.

Regardless of its origins, the color green has been firmly cemented in Islamic culture for centuries; for example, it is absent in many medieval European coats of arms, as during the Crusades, green was the color used by the Islamic soldiers. Additionally, in the palace of Topkapi in Istanbul, there is a room with relics of Muhammad. One of the relics, kept locked in a chest, is said to have been Muhammad's banner, under which he had went to battle. Some say that this banner is green with golden embroidery; others say that it is black. ".....


You're right,there is some debate over it.

Our opinions don't change anything,but it's an interesting study!

I have thought more on this and want to make some observations based on the destinction between horse and rider.

If the four horses describe four eras of history from the time John was on Patmos until now...
...and the riders represent some dynamic activity that occurs within the time period described by each color...
...then the GREEN could well represent both Islam and the GREEN movement...
...both are defined by this color...
...and could it be that 'green Islam' is there to distract us from the real GREEN.

However, the riders are the dynamic element played out on that background.

When I was reviewing this theme, I saw some wisdom in the Islam/Green motif...
...but I could not see the rider Death combined with Hades as being fulfilled in Islam...
...while their Djinn are not all friendlies, Hades is a god of the Greko/Roman west...
...although this may be too fine a point to make, there is more.

The 'terrorist' elements of Islam may fit but these are a minority amongst them...
...as the 'Christian' factions of Northern Ireland were a minority among Christians...
...and in no way represented the whole...
...in Indonesia most Moslems there distance themselves from the terrorist elements...
...they have a saying not specific to them 'their Islam is not my Islam'.

I also reflected on the image of Daniel 2...
...the Iron legs representing Rome are mixed in the feet and toes with clay...
...some have seen a demonic/alien element here in the grey clay...
...Daniel 2:43 "...they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another..."

Whatever 'they' are, they are not 'the seed of men'...
...and the power that rules to the end is an extension of Roman...
...and Islam is not at all from this western origin but they are still 'the seed of men'.

The text still has this focus for me...
...and while Islam may be part of the background, even play a role...
...western secular and religious powers are still on centre stage.

Revelation 6:8 "...and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

So this is how I see it working for now...
...on a background of Green...
...Death and a Demonic/Alien figure slay 25% of humanity with an expert biological instrument.



[edit on 21/12/09 by troubleshooter]

reply to post by troubleshooter


Actually the "pale rider" or "death" carries a scythe.

Each one carries the tools to kill at their own way... a bow for conquer, sword for war, a balance to starve, and the final the scythe to "harvest" your soul with his little friend behind to help him carry all the mess the others did to the other world.

But I think there's also a version with Pestilence or Plague instead of the conquer white horse.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

Actually the "pale rider" or "death" carries a scythe.

The image of Death as a Grim Reaper with a scythe originated in the 15th Century...
...but the scythe is not the tool described in Revelation 6:8

As I explained briefly in the OP, the type of sword is quite specific.

The sword that Death and Hades use in Revelation 6:8 is the rhomphaia...
...this is a large sword, like a long Thracian javelin...
...it is a kind of long sword worn on the right shoulder...
...and is the weapon of a military expert or professional.

The description of this sword is quite deliberate.

The word sword in Rev 6:4 is a the Greek word machaira...
...from which we get our English word Machete...
...it is used to describe a large knife for killing animals and cutting up flesh...
...or a small curved or straight sword used for cutting or thrusting...
...like the Roman short sword.

I think John makes this distinction for a reason.

Neither sword could be described as a scythe or sickle...
...which is better described by the Greek word drepanon...
...found in Revelation 14:15 "Thrust in thy sickle, and reap:"...
...used seven time in the passage Revelation 14:14-19



[edit on 25/12/09 by troubleshooter]

I think it means pale, as in white and discoloured. Could be wrong though.

Pale=gray horses get dirty from grass & manure both of which are green so a gray horse can be green also

I think pale describes the time better. Pale, sick like you said, no color, spiritualy desolate, then along comes hell.

The pale horse started riding around 1600 I'd say. Marked by modern science, technology, inventions. World Wars brought death, famine, disease etc.

The last 3 seals is the end of its ride and we're approaching it.

"Pale" or "green" - either way you have the color of a corpse. And it's being ridden by death.

I swear you people spend so much time hoping for the world to end, you could at least figure out your own darn prophecies. They're pretty damn simple as far as prophecy goes.