Yet another bad day for the anti-vaccine movement

This link scienceblogs.com... provides a concise history of the anti-vaccination trend and points out that the initial study was funded by trial lawyers who were looking to sue vaccine producers. Dr. Wakefield is being charged with scientific misconduct and there is strong evidence that he falsified his data in his Lancet paper. The latest studies are explained in this blog.

There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism. Meanwhile, the fear mongering has resulted in a drop in immunity to the point that "last year the Health Protection Agency declared measles to be once again endemic in the U.K., 14 years after the local transmission of measles had been halted."

Originally posted by pteridine
There is no evidence that vaccines cause autism.

Oh wait, that? Nah, that's just a random occurance, perfectly healthy young lady takes the vaccine and ends up retarded, sure, that never happens its 1 in a million COUGH COUGH

I already HAD THE SWINE FLU BUDDY and let me tell you, I haven't had ANY VACCINES in YEARS (besides tuberculosis shot i had to get when i wound myself up in jail), and I'm friggin healthy as an ox. Swine flu sucked, but i've had worse normal flus.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Revolution-2012]

The main problem is that Science Blogs is well known to be funded by shills for the major pharmaceutical companies.

Here's an informative video about vaccines

reply to post by jameshawkings


Oh, Big Time Pharmeceutical companies? They HAVE to be in it for the best of your interest.....right?

socioecohistory.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by pteridine
Meanwhile, the fear mongering has resulted in a drop in immunity to the point that "last year the Health Protection Agency declared measles to be once again endemic in the U.K., 14 years after the local transmission of measles had been halted."

I have read a retrospective analysis of the success of measels transmission that states that while vaccines stop fairly harmless childhood incidence of disease that it has exposed older people to the more devestaing conditions brought on by the same organism.

I will try and find the document for discussion here.

I'm just going to point out that all vaccines come with the listed side effects some of those side effects is, I forgot the name for it, but it can leave you paralyzed or kill you.

Now with that said I'm not anti-vaccine, but using mercury as a suspension fluid isn't exactly the best method, you would think with all the billions they pull in profits they could find something a little better.

reply to post by troubleshooter


Agreed troubleshooter; by trying to play God we are playing with Fire. If only we could leave our immune systems alone as they have infinitely more experience than vaccines. Also natural immunity can be passed from mother to baby via breast milk, so natural immunity can be passed through generations. On the occasions when a vaccine actually does work the immunity will often last less than 10 years.

There is a good amount of evidence to indicate that thimerisol -- an adjunct of childhood vaccines -- is contributory or a causation of autism.

National Autism Association

Robert F. Kennedy's expose on autism

Thimerisol & autism resource

As a balance, there are resources that indicate that thimerisol has never been a factor in autism:

Immunize.org - autism

WebMD - a cautionary tale

I don't really get where you see the big defeat for anti-vaccinist. I still get a tetanus booster every 7 years. I will not take a flu vaccine. Ever.

These are personal choices people have to make. I'll never advise someone, even if they ask. I just hope that people really, REALLY research all the information on the vaccines, and make an informed choice.

p.s. squalene. There. 'nuff said.

edit to fix links

[edit on 10/12/09 by argentus]

I think it disgusting to think we should have to take any of these vaccines. Influenza comes from factory meat farms, where sickly animals are raised on top of piles of their own feces. That's right, influenza and numerous other diseases are a by-product of those meat farms, and those places would not exist if not for so many wanting cheap meat for their meals.

Influenza could probably be consider karmatic payback for those sick disgusting animal prisons. This idea of flu vaccinations is actually the factory meat farm industries solution for making YOU sick. YUCK! Instead of getting rid of the problem, they want to FIX YOU so you don't get sick from this YUCK they are creating.

Know this though, there will come a day when one of those viruses will mutate into the next major plague that will wipe out a sizable portion of humanity .. again .. and it's all because of the cheap meat eaters and how they like to keep animals imprisoned to satisfy their taste buds at discount prices, ha.

Mark my words, the day will come when you all will realize that to stop these plagues and all the various other illnesses associated with imprisoning and eating animals, you will have to stop that nasty barbaric dietary habit. Vaccines are only a temporary means to try and cheap natures karmic payback for being such naughty awful barbaric humons. Really, influenza, and many other illnesses, wouldn't exist if you all would just stop asking for it. Yuck, you won't catch me getting a pig snot shot. I'd rather get rid of those that cause the problem in the first place.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Divinorumus]

Well this body of research seems to suggest that autism can be triggered by vaccines (about the 3rd sentence in the 8th paragraph):

www.prnewswire.com...

which references this body of work:
www.thecenternj.com...

Quote from Top source:

According to The Center's founder, William McFaul, a retired business person and not a member of the scientific community, "Because of its universal applicability, our Life Sciences group has already used the model as a tool to identify highly probable causal paths for several illnesses and disease entities. Autism was one of most difficult illnesses The Center had attempted to analyze. If it hadn't been for so many parents insisting that vaccines were responsible for the condition, we might never have found the fact that the stabilizer in MMR and a few other vaccines is hydrolyzed gelatin; a substance that is approximately 21% glycine. It appears that, based on readily verifiable science, the use of that form of glycine triggers an imbalance between the amino acid neurotransmitters responsible for the absorption rate of certain classes of cells throughout the body. It is that wide-spread disruption that apparently results in the systemic problems that encompass the mind and the body characterized in today's 'classic' autism." He also added, "The use of our model indicates each of the disorders within Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) is attributable to different disruptions in homeostasis. We look forward to sharing our findings relative to each disorder with the scientific community."

Edited to add: this information was already posted on ATS...I knew I had seen it somewhere: www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 10-12-2009 by belowcommonknowledge]

reply to post by argentus


Hi argentus,

Good post. You might be interested to know that my elder sister died after receiving an anti-tetanus vaccine. She received it age 4 (perfectly healthy at the time) and her muscles started gradually wasting away. She had created anti-bodies to part of the vaccine that resembles a substance in muscles, so her immune system would attack them every day, until she eventually grew too weak to get out of bed anymore.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Viruses were around long before the meat industry expanded.

And I suppose you eat soy, yes? Veggie?

I sincerely hope you have looked into the dark shadows of the soy and corn industry, my friend. Take a look around. Want to talk about resistance? Want to talk about genetic modification resulting in an increase in disease?

You can have your soy. You can also have your dairy. If you want to argue about antibiotic and antiviral resistance then I hope to goodness that you are vegan. For instance, I eat local, no hormone and organic meat but not dairy. I don't do dairy. There are just as many antibiotics and antivirals in the dairy industry as in the meat industry.

And there are just as many problems with the soy industry.

And I think that you are incorrect about the spread of viruses, because viruses like influenza and rhinovirus and other respiratory illnesses are not usually spread through meat, if ever, unless someone ill has been touching and coughing on that meat.

But they could also be touching your carrots. And your soy and dairy are causing just as many health problems, for real, not influenza spreading through meat.

[edit on 12/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]

reply to post by jameshawkings


Thanks for sharing that info James. I'm very sorry for the loss of your sister. That must've been very hard to be a part of.

Dealing with vaccines requires a weighing of risk/benefit. I am in construction, and a farmer of sorts, so I'm constantly in contact with soil and dirt. Thus, I've chosen to get the tetanus booster more often than recommended. I also have a penchant for going barefoot whenever I can, and while that's not very wise, especially here with all the crud that is in the sand loam (glass, a myriad of rusted objects) I really love going barefoot (obviously not when I'm working).

There is a fair case to be made that the squalene that is an adjunct of the H1N1 vaccine has a potential, WHEN injected, to cause an autoimmune reaction as well.

Thanks for the reply.




reply to post by ravenshadow13


I hear ya Raven. The only beef we'll eat is local. That doesn't mean it doesn't have any bacterial pathogens, just no unnatural additives. We eat a lot of local fish, lobster, conch as well.

I think there's a lot to be said for the idea that a perfectly clean house isn't necessarily the best thing for a child... What I mean is that small children especially, get all manner of nasty germs and dirt in their systems, and I believe that helps with their immunities at a time during their development when they most need it.

I got the polio vax when I was a kid. We now know that it was a lot more experimental than we were told at the time, but I also think that the manufacturers weren't necessarily JUST e-vile money-grubbing pharma as pharma is perceived these days. All the rest of the childhood diseases, I caught and whipped them the old-fashioned way (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc.). I think for the most part, that's how the human body is intended to work -- to naturally overcome and build immunities. With shifting antigens and such, I kinda doubt we'll even whip viruses. Perhaps viruses are the Earth's natural limiter.

reply to post by argentus


We're just in a crossroads. Right now, basically herd immunity is preventing those who haven't been vaccinated from getting sick. And that works sometimes. But I mean, I caught pertussis because I had only received half the DPT.

I think you've heard this from me before, but you're supposed to read all the warnings carefully before you get a vaccine, and with children the shots are given in a series for a reason. If the first one causes a mild reaction, don't have the second or third. Common sense, right? It's unfortunate how many people think that some symptoms are normal, get their kid another vaccine, and THEN a problem shows up. You're supposed to follow directions.

But anyway, I received the first DPT and not the follow-ups, because I had developed a fever the first time and my physician had recommended against it. I was a baby, of course. Fast forward 12 years later, I get whooping cough because herd immunity didn't work, someone hadn't been vaccinated and was carrying the virus, and poor me ended up sick. I do have permanent lung damage.

I can see both sides of the issue, but in all honesty if you read and follow all the precautions of a vaccine, the incidence of reaction is tiny. About the same as the incidence of a bad reaction to any medication or even a food. People die from medication reactions everyday. People also die from food allergies everyday.

I do have a reaction to thimerosal. Most-all vaccines are available without it. And my reaction is mild- I get tingling, a metallic taste, and lightheadedness. It fades quickly and given the fact that I am technically underweight and in a high-risk category, it's well worth it to me to get the vaccines.

My roommate in college this past term was somehow never vaccinated for the basic MMR, DPT, sort of stuff. DPT is an issue for me because, again, never had the full one. Technically I could have requested a room change for that reason. Luckily she was also nuts and ended up moving out anyway.

I did have chickenpox. I didn't get the vaccine for that, because I had already had the virus before they started giving vaccines in my area. But getting it wasn't that bad, either.

Pertussis/whooping cough, on the other hand, was much, much worse.

[edit on 12/10/2009 by ravenshadow13]

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Viruses were around long before the meat industry expanded.

That's right, but it's not only the meat industry, these viruses have been around ever since man began to keep animals for food. Look at how these animals are kept. Imagine raising your children like we raise these animals. The animals are no super-beings when it comes to getting sick from existing in filthy unsanitary conditions. These viruses come from the animals that are being kept and raised like this. Raise your children in similar conditions, see if they don't get sick. And then when the animals get sick they pass these viruses onto humans, and then it just spreads like crazy from there.

Influenza doesn't come from rocks. It comes from the disgusting living conditions of animals kept and raised for food. Think about it, think about your children being raised in such conditions. It's not healthy, not for humans, not for animals either. THAT is where so many viruses and pathogens come from. The idea that we have to mess around with our immune system and take inoculations against these viruses just so that this whole industry and dietary behavior can continue is disturbing. And to think it will all lead to another major plague killing millions is pretty sad. But, maybe it's deserving. Yeah, I'll try to think of it that way when it happens. "Oh yeah, baby, them cheap cheeseburgers were worth the next plague and hundreds of millions of deaths!"

Nope. I will never take a shot that attempts to make myself immune from any of this. That is not the solution. These inoculations only serve to make these viruses stronger and deadlier next time. Anyone that takes those flu shots today are condemning the fate of their children tomorrow when those viruses return even more powerful than before. You can't cheat karmic retribution with a shot forever, eventually your shots will become deadlier than the virus itself in order to stop it!

Eventually nature will win .. and hundreds of millions of humans will die. Mark my words, this is what all of this is going to lead to. Wait, you'll see. And it will happen sooner than you might think possible too.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Okay. Whatever you say.

www.mcb.uct.ac.za...

Whatever. You say.

I hope you don't use Purell either, dear. I don't. Purell and antibiotics are the two leading causes of viral and bacterial mutation, along with vaccination. Unfortunately, for some individuals vaccine is necessary, and in some instances so are antibiotics.

Welcome to reality. Enjoy your "animals for food lead to the evolution of influenza and viruses" theory.

Doesn't matter that at my brother's job, 200 took the vaccine and 3 of them never returned to work because they were 6 feet under.

A death ratio of 1.5% about 115 times higher than the 0.013% death ratio of swine flu in north america.

Not to mention all the others side effects of that vaccine...Continue taking the vaccine OP, until someone you love dies because of one.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Vitchilo]

Originally posted by ravenshadow13
Enjoy your "animals for food lead to the evolution of influenza and viruses" theory.

Well where do you think these viruses come from? Rocks? Secret government labs that have been around for thousands of years? Space aliens?

Go ahead, take your shots, they will only serve to strengthen these viruses which will ultimately bring about the next major plague that will doom you and your children and grandchildren.

I know this may sound crazy to many today, like how the idea that the Earth is round sounded so crazy to so many so long ago too, but one day humanity will have to grow up and face the truth, or perish.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


I think that's true (general safety of vaccines) in regard to our "classic" childhood ailments. You're in a unique situation, Raven, and I feel for you -- you're too young to have permanent lung damage. Thus, when you weight risk/benefit, your risks are probably greater in contracting the various ailments.

I think it's fairly obvious that I'm mostly concerned about thimerisol (which was supposedly removed from vaccines in the late 90's, at least until its reemergence in H1N1 vax), and the adjuncts in H1N1 and prior to that, the H591 vax. Quite a bit of evidence to point to squalene being the source for severe autoimmune reactions, as referenced in the American Journal of Pathology, and also a likely causation of Gulf War Syndrome -- the anthrax vaccine.

Good ol' herd. It's served me well. I'm truly sorry about your lungs. I'd guess that manifests itself as damage similar to asbestosis -- scarring of the alveoli that restricts O2 exchange.

reply to post by argentus


It's sort of like that. I'm physically unable to run or exercise for a long period of time without shortness of breath and pain. I think it has something to do with constriction and scarring. Inhalers don't work, that's how they realized it was pertussis in the first place and not asthma triggered by something.

But thank you,