Gorbachev Exposes Global Communist Environmentalism Conspiracy.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


With all due respect, hitler wasn't nearly as evil as mainstream media makes him out to be. Germany had lost the imperial race to colonise earth and their economy was choking after losing ww1 so in reality they had little choice but to re-invade europe and beyond.

The same was true with italy and japan. I find it hypocritical that german people are looked upon as barbarians other than the sad fact they had to murder 6 million jews, gypsies and communist sympathisers. The extermination camps are to blame just like with milosevic killing bosnian serbs to prove a point.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
...............
Russia was just as imperialistic as the USA which was capitalistic. USA gets most of the blame because they had the tendency to hide their motives through cia action and banker manipulation while russia was more open about it.

Not really Russia, and other Communist nations have used KGB black ops, have used, and still use terrorists to further their agendas, and also Bank manipulation.

For several years Russia, China, and some others have been calling for a new Global Economy headed by China, and Russia, or that at least they are big participants of this new economic system.

In 1999 two Chinese colonels wrote a book on military strategy entitled "Unrestricted Warfare" in which they describe the different ways that they can attack the west, through use of deception, economic warfare, legal means, hackers, and the use of terrorists, and they even mention Bin Laden by name to make attacks in places in the U.S. like the WTC to weaken the U.S....

Yes, this book was published with the consent of the CCP in 1999 before 9/11.

[edited to add comments]

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
With all due respect, hitler wasn't nearly as evil as mainstream media makes him out to be.
............

Sure...he was just a misunderstood man who just wanted the extermination of minorities, and to expand his empire by force....

He was a really good man....

Wow..... i really have no words for what you just said....

Well i do, but if i say them it would probalby get me banned.



[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
No...they are USING Capitalism... The infraestructures are still OWNED by the State. The people are still oppressed, and there are still executions of people because of their religious ideology, or because they are too democratic, or for "the betterment of the nation."

As far as we know there are still over 10,000 executions a year in China, and those are only the ones we know. The Chinese government still regards executions as a national security of the state, and they do not release any official figures, as far as i know.
[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

And usa does not execute people? What the hell are you talking about?

Not to mention china is communist on paper only... Why do you think big business from usa and europe are flocking there like geese heading south to avoid the cold?

Come on...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
With all due respect, hitler wasn't nearly as evil as mainstream media makes him out to be.
............

Sure...he was just a misunderstood man who just wanted the extermination of minorities, and to expand his empire by force....

He was a really good man....

Wow..... i really have no words for what you just said....

Well i do, but if i say them it would probalby get me banned.
[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Boy, you have a very simplistic view of the world, I must add...

England, France, Spain never killed natives in north/central/south america..

USA never killed indians while colonizing the west...

The jews are not killing palestinians in the west bank, neither are palestinians killing jews in israel...

War is war, wether you like it or not! There WILL be casualties in ANY war son.

America is not killing iraqis and afghanis? America did not kill her own citizens on 9-11? What the hell are you trying to prove?? You make zero sense!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The Chinese are pragmatic autocracts. Their tradition of a more collectivist society goes back thousands of years. Their culture is all about the individual's duty to the family and the state. One of the reasons they have such little regard for intellectual property laws is that in their own traditions, there was no such thing. It was an honor for an individual's work to become part of the official state cannon.

In terms of economic theory, which is what communism is, the Chinese are a hybrid - they have state owned companies, but they also have entrepreneurs, who you can bet will become more influential over time, as they accrue money and power.

They've borrowed from different philosophies, but at the core, they are still primarily Chinese.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

And usa does not execute people? What the hell are you talking about?

The United States does not execute people for being too Communist...
The death penalty in the U.S. is if the criminal is a murderer...

But worry not, slowly but surely the U.S. has been turning into a Socialist dictatorship like China.... BTW, the Chinese do call themselves Socialists too. ALL Communists call themselves Socialists, although not all Socialists are Communists...

In China people can get executed for being too democratic. People can be executed for their religious beliefs. People are executed in China for evading taxes. People also get executed just because their organs can be used by someone. And people can get executed for "the good of the nation."

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Not to mention china is communist on paper only... Why do you think big business from usa and europe are flocking there like geese heading south to avoid the cold?

Come on...

Oh boy...... Big business from other nations exist in China because China does not have the environmental protections you find in western countries... Big businesses go to China because the Chinese people are exploited and get paid a misery which is good for big businesses, and for the Chinese government to also get richer. There are some exceptions but that's only because they have big connections in the CCP...

You actually think big businesses are moving to China to help the Chinese people?...

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


All those bad behaviors you just listed are attributes of authoritarianism. There is no need to invoke communism to explain them. Communism is secondary to the thing.



And as far as labor exploitation goes, just take a peek at America's own history. We relied on the labor of slaves, sharecroppers, and desperate immigrants. We would have never risen so high so fast without it. Of course businesses aren't relocating there to help anyone. It just about cheap labor - like we used to have.





[edit on 10-12-2009 by TrueTruth]

Originally posted by TrueTruth
.............
but they also have entrepreneurs, who you can bet will become more influential over time, as they accrue money and power.
..........

Those entrepreneurs are for the most part either members of the CCP, or have some other link to the CCP.

The CCP doesn't allow just anyone to become an entrepreneur.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
But worry not, slowly but surely the U.S. has been turning into a Socialist dictatorship like China.... BTW, the Chinese do call themselves Socialists too. ALL Communists call themselves Socialists, although not all Socialists are Communists...

Well if comes down to choosing a socialist dictatorship or a capitalist dictatorship, I think I will go with the former... At least I will have a roof over my head, a nice meal and a steady job.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Oh boy...... Big business from other nations exist in China because China does not have the environmental protections you find in western countries... Big businesses go to China because the Chinese people are exploited and get paid a misery which is good for big businesses, and for the Chinese government to also get richer. There are some exceptions but that's only because they have big connections in the CCP...

You actually think big businesses are moving to China to help the Chinese people?...

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

And those are all hallmarks of capitalism, not communism. Capitalism is based on exploitation and greed. Hence why I said, the chinesse government is communist on paper only...

Ask your grandfather how difficult it was to join a labor union in the early part of the 20th century. A lot of people were rounded up and beaten mercilessly for no reason other than going on strike.

Originally posted by TrueTruth

All those bad behaviors you just listed are attributes of authoritarianism. There is no need to invoke communism to explain them. Communism is secondary to the thing.

Riiight, let's forgive Communism, because it is not the fault of Communism that over 110 million people have been murdered by this doctrine in the world, and this is not counting soldiers who died in battle. Then there are the millions more who have been imprisoned, and there are sitll millions of prisoners around the world because of Communism...

Let's forget all of that, it is not because of Communism that all these attrocities have happened, and continue to happen, even if at a lesser degree now....

Originally posted by TrueTruth
And as far as labor exploitation goes, just take a peek at America's own history. We relied on the labor of slaves, sharecroppers, and desperate immigrants. We would have never risen so high so fast without it. Of course businesses aren't relocating there to help anyone. It just about cheap labor - like we used to have.

Are you implying that Communism is needed?....

BTW, the U.S., or any other coutry NEVER needed slavery to grow....

People came to America for a better life. Yes a lot of people had to work really hard but that is for the most part a fact in life.

The CCP, just like the Kremlin realized that they needed to use Capitalism to become stronger, and to survive, but they have been USING Capitalism just so their system doesn't die.

If you take a look at the statements of former high ranking Russian, and Chinese officers they talk about an agreement that was reached decades ago to deceive the west, and for the west to lower our guard.

The plan has been working perfectly, and most of the things these former high ranking Communist officers have come to pass.

But of course some people are probably going to claim "that is just a coincidence, and everything else they said is not going to happen".....

reply to post by EarthCitizen07

With all due respect, hitler wasn't nearly as evil as mainstream media makes him out to be. Germany had lost the imperial race to colonise earth and their economy was choking after losing ww1 so in reality they had little choice but to re-invade europe and beyond.

Tell that to the 6 million holocaust victims, and the tens of millions of soldiers that died because of Hitler.
Your remark is beyond unbelievable. It is obscene.
As for your claim that Germany had no choice but to "re-invade Europe and beyond", that is also ludicrous.
They had plenty of OTHER choices. They could have ramped up their manufacturing plants to priduce items that the rest of the world would buy, instead of using that resource to build bombs, tanks, rifles and rockets.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse



You can't blame an economic theory for the murder of human beings. There's nothing in communist theory that necessitates slaughtering millions of people. Any variety of rabid idealism can lead to that kind of purge or inquisition.

You're assigning cause and blame to a feature of the actor that isn't necessary for his actions.

Slaves came to America for a better life? Did you know the the cotton they picked for some gruel and a shed used to bring in more money than all our other exports combined?

And the rest is all conspiracy theories. I could just as easily whip up a couple of articles telling us that it was NAZI's who teamed up with big business to create centralized banking in europe, which has led through trade agreements to the birth of the EU, which is the prototype for the 'global government' everyone is talking about.

So we have contradicting narratives. We have more than one group making bold statements about global conspiracies, more than happy to take credit for any such steps in that direction made by any actor upon the world stage.

And how could you take away the idea that I think 'communism is needed' by simply stating an historical fact about our own labor history? I don't advocate any kind of exploitation - that's not the point at all. Whatever the system is, everyone stands to benefit from labor that is essentially free.

Collectivism and capitalism are not mutually exclusive systems, and they can both be mangled by despotism. Now, given that communism necessarily involves a centralized authority, perhaps it's already one step closer by nature, but the capitalist system has also consolidated nicely into the hands of the 1% of Americans who own 90% of the wealth.

There are many roads to tyranny.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Well if comes down to choosing a socialist dictatorship or a capitalist dictatorship, I think I will go with the former... At least I will have a roof over my head, a nice meal and a steady job.

Capitalism depends completely in a free market, and private ownership of capital. Because of competition between different companies, prices of products can remain relatively low depending on demand. It also induces better salaries, and more benefits.

If you don't like your job with McDonalds for $7.25 an hour, you could have gone to college, and gotten a better job, but because of the Socialist elites wanting to implement their One World Socialist Government they caused the economic crisis in which we are in.

You can also move to some other state where the standard of living is better. For example the city where I live you get paid $15 an hour for being a driver for Dominos pizza

BTW, if you believe that in Socialist/Communist dictatorships all people have a roof over their heads, and they have enough food you are more dellusional than I thought.

If you want to experience a true Socialist/Communist dictatorship just come up with about $5,000 dollars, and I can get you to live with my family in Cuba, and they can show you the wonders of a Socialist/Communist dictatorship...

You will have to give my family in Cuba $200 a week and they will love you, and show you the Communist nation...they won't show you only the tourist sections of the island, they will show you the real sections of the island where regular people live. of course you will also have to learn some Spanish.

In Socialist/Communist dictatorships EVERYONE is poor, except the elite... and you won't have all the food you want to eat...there is rationing in Communist countries, obviously something you also didn't know about...

Most people in Socialist/Communist dictatorships are thin not because they love to exercise, but because there isn't enough food...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
And those are all hallmarks of capitalism, not communism. Capitalism is based on exploitation and greed. Hence why I said, the chinesse government is communist on paper only...

Communism is more corrupt, and worse than Capitalism ever will...and HISTORY has shown that... But of course some people love to ignore certain facts about history because they don't want to admit it...

When the government owns Everything, which is what happens in true Socialist/Communist nations, the government can, and does ration everything... The government can take your home, because it doesn't belong to you, and they can give it to someone else and put you in a smaller, and worse place.

The house of my grandmother was taken by the government once we left the island. They didn't give any compensation to my two half sisters who were still lviing there, and they were instead put in a small apartment.

There are also many people in Socialist/Communist dictatorships who live in shacks made of metal, plastic, and or cardboard...and there are more people living in such conditions in Socialist/Communist countries than in Capitalist countries...

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
Ask your grandfather how difficult it was to join a labor union in the early part of the 20th century. A lot of people were rounded up and beaten mercilessly for no reason other than going on strike.

My grandfather was in Cuba trying to stay alive meanwhile the Communists were taking over everything in the island, and no he wasn't rich he just didn't want to accept the Communist demands. My grandfather did have some land which was taken by the Communist regime, but he was a farmer, he was not a rich man.

After the Communists took over the entire infraestructure my grandfather had to work in a factory, of course owned by the state, where he was being paid a misery....

In the U.S. we have had the Socialist elites taking over the government, and slowly transforming the Republic into a Socialist dictatorships, and people like you still want to blame Capitalism when it has been the Socialist implementations that have gotten us in the mess we are now....

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

Originally posted by TrueTruth

You can't blame an economic theory for the murder of human beings. There's nothing in communist theory that necessitates slaughtering millions of people. Any variety of rabid idealism can lead to that kind of purge or inquisition.
.............

When that ideology gives more value to the socio-economic system than to human lives and individual freedom, that ideology implies that the end justifies the means, even if it means murdering people who do not want to accept such ideology...

In true (scientific) Socialism/Communism the good of the revolution, and the good of "the Communist party" has more value than the lives of individuals. Hence there is a justification to murder people to keep the revolution, and the Communist party alive.

So despite your "attemps" to forgive true (scientific) Socialism/Communism, that ideology gives more value to keeping the revolution, and the Communist party alive than to individual lives. More so if it is the individual lives of those who do not want to accept such an ideology.

[edited to correct comments]

[edit on 10-12-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

When that ideology gives more value to the socio-economic system than to human lives and individual freedom, that ideology implies that the end justifies the means, even if it means murdering people who do not want to accept such ideology...

Starred. Excellent post.
That is exactly what is happening in the current Congress and Administration.
Even though the majority of US citizens have expressed disapproval of "Cap and Trade", Bailout bills, and the current health care bill, they have decided that THEY know what is best for us, and OUR opinions mean NOTHING.
It is therefore up to us to throw "the bums out".

Oh my god...

This post is the biggest load of horse-sh*t ever.

Seriously, do you people LOVE to make absolute mind-numbing crap up and just peddle it as if it's blowing the lid off of some grand conspiracy? You're chasing ghosts, you fascist idiots.

Environmentalists and scientists and Europeans and Muslims and Jews and Obama and liberals and EVERYONE EXCEPT PARANOID CHRISTIAN RIGHT-WING CORPORATE-LOVING CONSPIRACY THEORISTS ARE IN ON A GIANT COMMIE/TERRORIST/GOD-HATING/AMERICA-HATING/REPTILIAN/NWO CONSPIRACY TO TAKE OVER EVERYTHING!

No actually there's no worldwide communist conspiracy. If you think there is, then you're HOPELESSLY out of touch with reality.

If ANYTHING, your kind of delusional, xenophobic, paranoid, science-hating propaganda will bring about fascism in this country. The closest we've come to fascism in America was under right-wing paranoia against communists, terrorists, and in SUPPORT of a corporatist state. Anything that threatens your BELOVED capitalism must be an evil scheme. You have to be unbelievably THICK to not see that capitalism IS the evil scheme that has taken over the world. Who needs an established global government when you have multi-national corporate globalization? Communism is dead, as it should be. And Capitalism MUST die. They're both disgusting and outdated forms of society that have proven authoritarian and destructive to human health, freedom, and the environment.

Don't you wing-nuts DARE call the environmental movement a commie conspiracy. You have no idea what/who you're talking about. You sit on the sidelines and only listen to rabid right-wing bloggers instead of actually involving yourself in an environmental movement. If you did, you'd find that most environmentalists want just as much (if not MORE) freedom/equality for humans than you do.

This thread shows sorely brazen and disgusting intellectual dishonesty.

reply to post by NoHierarchy


Wow. So many things I could respond to there!

How about you begin by actually addressing the contents of the OP, instead of just a sweeping outright dismissal of every drop of it. Since you're 100% right, and I'm 100% wrong, there should be plenty of fodder for you to pick to shreds. With all of your passion this should be a good time...


BTW: The 'country' already is fascist, has been for a long time, and currently is under Obama. This needs to be "changed", but not into the global communist dictatorship which is the current trend.

And I always thought it was the "Republicans" who called the "Democrats" wingnuts?

[edit on 10-12-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Oh my god...

This post is the biggest load of horse #ht.
You sit on the sidelines and only listen to rabid right-wing bloggers instead of actually involving yourself in an environmental movement.

Looks like you just graduated from an Obama disinfo course at Chicago Tech.
I will do my part for you. A movement in the environment for you.

No...they are USING Capitalism... The infraestructures are still OWNED by the State. The people are still oppressed, and there are still executions of people because of their religious ideology, or because they are too democratic, or for "the betterment of the nation."

They may be using capitalism, but in the end capitalism is knowingly using them to further it's own goals, and in the case of the US progressive movement, it's a complete corporatist facade masquerading behind left wing social movements.

As far as we know there are still over 10,000 executions a year in China, and those are only the ones we know. The Chinese government still regards executions as a national security of the state, and they do not release any official figures, as far as i know.

Right-wing dictatorships have executed people too.

Not really Russia, and other Communist nations have used KGB black ops, have used, and still use terrorists to further their agendas, and also Bank manipulation.

What about the CIA? What about our government's intelligence agencies use of terrorists and our political leaders having ties to people with extremist ideologies?

Oh boy...... Big business from other nations exist in China because China does not have the environmental protections you find in western countries... Big businesses go to China because the Chinese people are exploited and get paid a misery which is good for big businesses, and for the Chinese government to also get richer. There are some exceptions but that's only because they have big connections in the CCP...

Sounds like free markets to me...

Capitalism and communism. It's Hegelian dialectics 101. The thesis and the antithesis. One cannot exist without the other, like an equation that must be balanced. Both are ideologies that have splintered into corrupt and violent offspring.

The system I propose, a possible synthesis, utilizes both: a socialist system in that every piece of industry is owned directly by the workers in a somewhat free trade system, with a government operating a social libertarian capacity whose goal is mainly to simply print and to an extent regulate money.

Sorry for inadvertently derail your thread, OP.



[edit on 10-12-2009 by Someone336]

[edit on 10-12-2009 by Someone336]