The 4th Kind & Alien/Demons Connection

I have been a long believer of aliens and the paranormal... I have even witnessed paranormal experiences in my life. They are legitimate experiences. This topic would take too long to discuss.

So here are a few Ideas.

First, Bacteria has been found on extraterrestrial bodies, amino acids have been found on extraterrestrial bodies, even here on earth organisms find ways to live off of silicates, glasses, sulfer, oxygen.. etc. With the vast metabolic capabilities of life on earth and the infinite environments of space, how could it not be possible that there exist another place that is capable of life?

Secondly, There is no knowledge of anything outside of our own deminision, therefore life can very well exist in a different dimension. If you ask any true scientist they follow the rule " if it can, then it does." Therefore, these entities who visit us from another world or life have the possibility of existing.

Lastly, Talk of UFO's and Life-Afterlife seems to be split between two camps, those who back there arguement with science and those that back their arguement with religion. It seems to me that both are arguements of possibility or what could be true. Amidst all the debate, i dont understand why it is impossible for one side not to understand the outlandish theories of the otherside and be unable to admit that their own ideas are just as outlandish. (i do mean outlandish literally since were talking about UFOs and extradimensionals.)

Just to be controversial, I am going to say that both are one in the same... And i can garuntee no one could prove me wrong cause i would be able to take arguements from both extremes!!!

Fascinating topic.

[edit on 10-12-2009 by CosmicYahtzee]

reply to post by buds84


The Seraphim and Cherubim are described as having wings.

The draconic Seraphim have six wings, Isaiah (6:1–3) and the taurian Cherubim have four wings, Ezekiel (1:5-11). Icons of the Cherubim are also built in the Temple with their height at 10 cubits (over 15 feet) and wingspans were 20 cubits (over 30 feets).

Malakhim (the Messengers) look human. Ishim look human. The machine like Ophanim look like gimbals. Bnai Elohim look human. Chashmalim are radiant like fire, amber and lightning.

Biblically no "demon" or unclean spirits are described as having wings. Lilith may be an exception though as she may have some avian features.
The Seirim are like Satyrs or goat like. The Shedim are like bulls or possibly like Minotaurs in appearance. The Tannin are like Drakones or wyrms. The Tannim are like jackals and hyenas, compare to the Islamic Ghul or Ghoul. Ovoth look like apparitions or shades.

In apocryphal texts Lilith has vampiric children called Lilim, think Succubi/Inccubi, who may or may not have wings. Azazel also appears in apocryphal texts as a fallen Bnai Elohim, with the appearance of a Satyr, and as chief of the Seirim. He's probably not winged. Lastly. Ashmedai or better known as Asmodeus in apocrphal texts also may have a Satyr like appearance.

Its alot more complex than the simplicistic "angels and demons" taught in Sunday school.

The Angels of Sunday school are the Malakhim, who look like amazingly beautiful humans. These are the same kind of beings that went to get Lot and his family out of Sodom. The Demons of Sunday school are the Ovoth. These are the scary apparitional wraith like things that speak in whispers, act as familiars, and possess people.

reply to post by Xanos


Welcome to the site, way to express your opinion that only other peoples opinions can be ridiculous and brainwashed and ignorant.

The alien said it was god because it was able to travel through space and talk to humans. Makes sense! Because that equals omnipotence...

Im not even religious but you group everyone as a brainwashed religious fanatic for thinking differently than the norm

reply to post by Xanos


You might want to do some research on other worlds in religion.

In Kabalist texts, like Sefer Yetzirah and the Zohar, other worlds are spoken of. Some of these texts are well over 1000 years old and yet there are descriptions of Seven specific planets in seven different star systems. Some of which are even described as having red suns and unearthly vegetation and fauna.

In Islam these same Seven planets were somehow misinterpreted into layers, but it is described that it would take five hundred years to reach the closest one. The furthest out would take 3500 years to reach. It never describes what method of transportation though.

The Zohar mentions hundreds of thousands worlds.

Mormon texts also have thousands of worlds and star systems. This also happened to serve as the inspiration for the Battlestar Galactica series, which was created by a Mormon. Kobol is the same as the Mormon Kolob and considered the oldest civilized system on Mormon cosmology. This dates to at least 1835 when the Mormon text "the Book of Abraham" was published.

Edit to add:
I just found this. I knew that the Seven other worlds could be found among the Yezidis and the ancient Persians, but I missed this one.

Mesopotamian Cosmic Geography by Wayne Horowitz, Ph.D an Assyriologist

It appears that the "Seven Earths", which are not to be confused with the Seven classical planets, were first mentioned by the Sumerians.
books.google.com...=onepage&q=seven%20earths&f=false




[edit on 11/12/09 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I remember reading from an old Greek text about different animals iin the world and could not help but think maybe they writers actually saw these things. There was a minotaur, half-goat people, mermaids, people with wings, I mean things we just think is mythology but maybe they did exist.

Also about the different planets in the Zohar did it mention anywhere 9?

I think it would be easier for ancients to imagine aliens rather than demons, actually. I mean another world may be hard for some to imagine but like Mike said they have in many religions. And I would think different 'planes' of existence and realities and dimensions would be far harder to comprehend than just a physical planet.

I mean people nowadays dont even get physics!

reply to post by Ridhya


Um, clearly you did not read my post or you just didn't understand it. I'm not classifying everyone as brainwashed and ignorant, or saying that any opinion other than my own is ridiculous. What I am saying is that someone who says UFO's are angels or that demons are pretending to be aliens without any evidence whatsoever can simply not be taken seriously. Done deal.


[edit on 17-12-2009 by Xanos]

[edit on 17-12-2009 by Xanos]

Originally posted by watchtheashes
Aliens and the like are Nephilim and fallen angels not demons. Demons are disembodied Nephilim.

Read the Book of Enoch.

Enoch is even taken by the fallen ones on a UFO ride through the stars.

Satan and his 199 minions are WATCHERS from the book of Enoch. They are not angels. Angels are different.

Grey's are bio-engineered FAKES made by our government with the help of the Watchers. Watchers are the ones that help the government FOOL you to enslave you when the time is right. The Watchers have even fooled the governments of this world into thinking that they are only peaceful Grey aliens from another planet needing a place to live.

There are only 200 evil Watchers and to make it look like an alien invasion they need allot of bio-Grey's to pull it off. The Watchers will possess them at will to make them seem more than just robots and convince the population.

Nephlim are the giant sons of the Watchers, half human and half Watcher. They are all dead that we know of and roam this earth as Demons.

www.thedivinecouncil.com...

MICHAELSHEISER.COM
www.michaelsheiser.com... HERE IS YOUR ROSWELL SPACESHIP!!!!

reply to post by Picollo30


Well I get you. I was always more impressed by John A Keel, Brad steiger and Jaques Vallee. I have no problems with some demons or just negative spirits posing as aliens. There is an element of changing witht he times. It is only that our current era no longer has that consensus of believe that negative spirits exist. I am not a Xtian but am a practicing occultist. Aliens being seen by psychics or via astral projection or dreams cannot be pysical. I also believe that some UFOs/USOs are nuts and bolts with physical entities. Perhaps Brad Steiger has been debunked>

Cool Thread!!

First of all, let me know when an astronomer discovers Heaven or Hell in their telescope.

There is a point where Science and Religion meet, and I think an example of that would be the Higgs boson, aka, the God Particle.

No offense to anyone, but if life exists elsewhere in this Universe and calling all that life either an Angel or a Demon seems beyond ignorant. Because when you say aliens are demons or angels, that is basically what you are a saying, and life in our Universe besides us, is from Heaven or Hell. Give me a break.

Also back to Earthly sightings we don't know who the occupants of the ufos are.

But if we are assuming we are talking about the Greys, I don't see why it is unrealistic to consider them to be actual creatures from a different planet. Also not every religion is based off the Bible or other holy texts, study Polynesia or the Amazon for example.

As far as the 4th Kind, I thought it to be an entertaining movie. I was disappointed to find out it to be $30 for the blu-ray. I'll wait til it goes on sale.

The whole point of the moive was to empahsize the physcological impact of being abducted by aliens.

I also was intrigued on how unknown everything was.

I believe in an alien presence, and I also believe in evil. I do not however believe them to be one and the same.

I find it easier to believe that what many see or encounter are in fact an advanced race from somewhere else rather than demons posing as aliens. I think this idea takes away from the true study of what's going on and turns it into a religious phenomenon. Things get messy when that happens. Ppl speak from their heart and nothing else matters. Religion gets in the way and tends to retard issues.

There is also a semantics issue going on here, let me illustrate:

1. Aliens are Angels/Demons.

2. Angels/Demons are Aliens.


#2 seems to lean towards the Ancient Astronaut Theory more than # 1. Honestly # 1 seems like some ignorant redneck babble.

This is why I think a demon would pose as an alien. If demons exist, then satan exists, if satan exists then Angels exist and If Angels exist then God exists. The demons ultimate goal is to bring you to satan. If you don't believe in God or Satan then the battle for your soul has been won by the demon. Why show what you really are and lose the souls you are trying to gather for satan.

Originally posted by seanizle
reply to post by mamabeth

 

If a person that was made out of 4 dimensions came into a room with a person made of 3 dimensions, the person made out of 4 dimensions could enter a space where they would appear to be invisible to the person made of 3 dimensions. I think there is a connection between the UFO and paranormal community, but I don't think we are going to make the connection until the little green men come out of there saucers and give us the low down.

www.youtube.com...

Great video by Carl Sagan explaining dimensions

It's a decent example, but we aren't made up of 3 dimensions. We are made of 4.

I've read the whole thread, old as it is, and I felt the need to reply in general. Sorry for the length.

What everyone should remember is that religious texts taken literally are always going to be at least partly wrong.

This is a simple matter of translation if nothing else. We do not have direct translations from the old texts to the new, not 100%. And we never will since the language that most religious texts are written in aren't spoken today.

What you CAN take from religious texts as a sort of evidence is correlating evidence. All religions mention an enemy. All of them mention beings of some sort from elsewhere, and all of them mention a right way and a wrong way to live. In general, religion is a good thing because it keeps people in the right mindset morally. But if you take it too far and take it too literally, you end up with crazy people shooting others because they practice abortion. Or are witches. Or communists. Take your pick really.

The fact is we are all scared of something. Give us any target that SEEMS plausible and we will fight back against that fear with our surrogate enemy.

The real enemy probably does exist, but consider that the term "satan" does NOT refer to a single being, but is a general term. It means simply "enemy" or "opponent." In old hebrew satan is the prosecutor that brings forth your sins before the divine council for judgement. It does not mention that it is one single angel.

Consider also that in many popular possession cases the phrase "we are legion" is uttered very commonly. There is more than one face of "evil" as there is more than one face of "good."

My belief is that both good and evil are terms we attach to natural forces. Life and death, attraction and repulsion, receiving and losing. We live in the gray area between titanic opposing forces and our language is used to make as much sense out of our environment as it can. But it is not perfect, and thus cannot be taken literally. For example, on the front step of a bookstore I used to frequent is written, in a stone block, "Nothing is written in stone." If I take this literally, I will go crazy, because OBVIOUSLY "nothing" is written in this stone at my feet. But, if I take it to mean "nothing is permanent" then the inherent irony of the phrase teaches me new things. If I always assume the written word ONLY as it is written, then I will certainly miss the meaning the writer was trying to convey. It is because our language is imperfect.

I believe it is very possible that our species is in danger. From ourselves, from outside forces, and from our past. From our very heritage. If there are aliens and they are "doing things" to us, whatever those things may be, think of it this way. How do you think your pet fish feels when you pick it up out of it's environment? If your son or daughter decides to leave that fish out on the carpet, how terrified and helpless do you think that fish must feel?

Now imagine that something, be it demon, angel, alien, or what have you, takes you out of your "tank" and leaves you on it's carpet. It's a terrifying thought.


Aliens and demons, angles and gods. They are a linguistic manifestation of our very real fear. The fear of death. The fear of the unknown. And the fear of the only slightly known. This is NOT a baseless fear and THAT is the problem. We humans, for all our philosophical awakening over the past few centuries, still only have one defense for this old fear and that is denial. We name it whatever we want, categorize it, and quarantine it in the darkest recesses of our minds and learning centers. We debunk it as myth or fantasy.

We call them demons, spirits, aliens, angels, delusions... we call them whatever lets us sleep at night more soundly. Whatever secret word or phrase will stop the golem from rampaging. But the truly horrific thing for us is the very real possibility that there is no password, no mantra or chant that will stop whatever it is we are afraid of. Against such hopelessness what can humankind do but rationalize the insane? What else can we do but bury our heads in the sand and move on?

I will not give undo credence to rants or delusion. That is not my point. There are people in this world with severely disturbed minds. To make them into a sideshow of the paranormal is not only counterproductive for the rest of us but makes a mockery of their suffering. Instead I will say that we have yet to adequately deal with this ancient fear as a people, as a society, and as a species. Whatever way you want to categorize that fear, it exists. It is real, and someday we will need to face it or have it tear us all apart. I think if there is any solid truth to the paranormal at all it is that.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by InertiaZero

 

I devoted my life to Jesus in november 2005.I was baptised on 11/12/06.
I choose to serve God and Jesus.Sometimes,your past comes back to
bite you.I fell under the spell of paranormal activity and it nearly destroyed
me.
The closer you get to God and the truth,the more you are under demonic
attack.That is why we have so much confusion on many topics.

Do you seriously not realize how cultish you sound?! Listen to what you're truly saying. How do you explain the hundreds maybe thousands of archaeological findings and pieces of evidence pertaining to extra-terrestrial life....THOUSANDS of years ago???

Why is that "God" literally spoke to man almost regularly in biblical and ancient times, but not now?!