Global Warming Denial: An American Partisan Issue

reply to post by endisnighe


Not only that but the only thing they can do, which includes the OP of this thread, is make more wild claims, and dismissing the evidence to cover their backside because they have nothing to contribute, and they have nothing to back their claims...

Haven't you noticed how certain people have been trying to fill the Fragile Earth foum, among some others, with nothing but empty rhetoric, lies, and more exagerations meanwhile dismissing the evidence against their "claims" because they don't want to let go of their AGW religion?....

Originally posted by atlasastro
You seem very frightened Doc. Keep your chin up champ. Change is inevitable Doc.

I'm not at all afraid of the future, nor anything else. I'm aware of the socialist creep in the USA, through its universities, through its broadcast media, through its politics. I know its face, and I see it every day. It saddens me to see America steadily succumbing to the socialist creep.

However, I know that working from within the system is a traditional revolutionary role. Nothing is permanent. No fear, just planning.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
I'm not at all afraid of the future, nor anything else. I'm aware of the socialist creep in the USA, through its universities, through its broadcast media, through its politics. I know its face, and I see it every day. It saddens me to see America steadily succumbing to the socialist creep.

However, I know that working from within the system is a traditional revolutionary role. Nothing is permanent. No fear, just planning.

— Doc Velocity

Which is the main reason the leftists are pushing for the AGW agenda...and of course, this is also why most leftists like to ignore, and dismiss the mountain loads of evidence that refutes AGW.

BTW, I agree with you, i am also sadden to see the indoctrination which has been occurring, and that even many intelligent people have been behind just to further the Socialist agenda, and to destroy the Republic of the United States..

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Incidentally, your signature by Sam Adams is one of the most poignant quotes that came out of the American Revolution, in my opinion.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
I'm not at all afraid of the future, nor anything else. I'm aware of the socialist creep in the USA, through its universities, through its broadcast media, through its politics. I know its face, and I see it every day. It saddens me to see America steadily succumbing to the socialist creep.

However, I know that working from within the system is a traditional revolutionary role. Nothing is permanent. No fear, just planning.

— Doc Velocity

Which is the main reason the leftists are pushing for the AGW agenda...and of course, this is also why most leftists like to ignore, and dismiss the mountain loads of evidence that refutes AGW.

BTW, I agree with you, i am also sadden to see the indoctrination which has been occurring, and that even many intelligent people have been behind just to further the Socialist agenda, and to destroy the Republic of the United States..

Socialist creep

you guys walk to lines at the same time frankly.

The globalist agenda is fueled by capitalism - the point is to make money is it not?

Unless you are saying TPTB have gotten to such a station with socialism?

I think C&T is a capitalist way to game the system, just like ALL the subsidies across the board.

My only point to you is adding the socialism is a reach - this thing is as muddy as it gets as it is.

Very funny there needs to be this trifecta of taxes, government control and socialism to justify any argument EU. Bigger picture, this does not explain the same things being advocated when they are executed by a card carrying conservative. The duality, same coin different sides, etc... Trade is a very good example of this duality being executed

You don't need to go there to have a valid point

Labeling anything undesirable as socialist only helps to polarize people and create political support on the basis of base political snipping.

Calling socialism every which way is becoming habitual and intellectually lazy...
A couple more decades of this and the Red baiting will fall on deaf ears as the imminent danger of the USSR will have faded by then. People will be desensitized, already happening- carry on




[edit on 7-12-2009 by Janky Red]

climate change -NO

sun blowing up ? - YES



.... don't take it personally

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
This whole "climate-gate" nonsense is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Even after the emails were thoroughly clarified by scientists and put into the proper context and perspective, neocons won't let it go.

Um, the emails were not clarified, they were dismissed. Certain participants (scientists) have resigned because of the scandal. If the emails are inconsequential, why aren't the participants hanging in there and fighting the good fight? It's because they've been shamed with their own words, and it's damaged the credibility of the MMGW crusade.

What is truly telling is how vicious and mean-spirited are the MMGW advocates, how very like attack dogs they become when their golden theories come into question. "How dare anyone question this sheet of numbers which has a high probability of being accurate! How dare they!"


PS: I'm not a "neocon," whatever that is.

— Doc Velocity

I'm not a neocon, in fact, here in the USA I'd probably be labeled a liberal. BUT I'm not falling for this rush to judgment that says developed world=bad and developing world=victims. It's BS! It's the same rush to judgment that caused banker bailouts across the planet. It's a scam.
BS Editorial

When the USA's fortune 500 is backing MMGW, you should know it's a scam. Why would all of these supposedly irresponsible (actually I agree that they have been socially irresponsible) - why would the socially irresponsible corporations decide to change directions and all become socially responsible all of a sudden?

Is it because they suddenly decided to do the right thing to save humanity? Not a chance. Don't believe the hype folks.

Originally posted by elvisofdallas

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by ZombieOctopus
This whole "climate-gate" nonsense is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Even after the emails were thoroughly clarified by scientists and put into the proper context and perspective, neocons won't let it go.

Um, the emails were not clarified, they were dismissed. Certain participants (scientists) have resigned because of the scandal. If the emails are inconsequential, why aren't the participants hanging in there and fighting the good fight? It's because they've been shamed with their own words, and it's damaged the credibility of the MMGW crusade.

What is truly telling is how vicious and mean-spirited are the MMGW advocates, how very like attack dogs they become when their golden theories come into question. "How dare anyone question this sheet of numbers which has a high probability of being accurate! How dare they!"


PS: I'm not a "neocon," whatever that is.

— Doc Velocity

I'm not a neocon, in fact, here in the USA I'd probably be labeled a liberal. BUT I'm not falling for this rush to judgment that says developed world=bad and developing world=victims. It's BS! It's the same rush to judgment that caused banker bailouts across the planet. It's a scam.
BS Editorial

When the USA's fortune 500 is backing MMGW, you should know it's a scam. Why would all of these supposedly irresponsible (actually I agree that they have been socially irresponsible) - why would the socially irresponsible corporations decide to change directions and all become socially responsible all of a sudden?

Is it because they suddenly decided to do the right thing to save humanity? Not a chance. Don't believe the hype folks.

GOOD, hopefully you can still advocate a clean environment without the Crap and Trade

Originally posted by Janky Red
The globalist agenda is fueled by capitalism - the point is to make money is it not?

I'm not sure Capitalism can survive the advent of a one-world economy. I mean, on the face of it, Capitalists are a minority, and they're a persecuted minority. Hell, they're a hated minority. Look, I'll throw you a gnarly old bone...

When English Capitalists Collided With Stalin

If history repeats itself — and it does — then I'm fairly sure we can look forward to a few decades of socialist oppression. Chop off the heads of those damned Capitalist upstarts....



— Doc Velocity






[edit on 12/7/2009 by Doc Velocity]

either your confused or this is intentional bs

Originally posted by Janky Red


GOOD, hopefully you can still advocate a clean environment without the Crap and Trade

I for one have no problem with general conservation, especially given the well known issues with Acid Rain, and River Pollutant runoff. I mean, here I go for a walk down my street one day, on a nice path in the woods, and I have to periodically cross litter that people somehow decided had to be cast aside before they could make the ten minute walk to a garbage can. Issues such as that I find irritating, and irresponsible.

To me, the aforementioned are true problems, and yet they have very real and able solutions. We could easily create certain infrastructure around such, and work to educate people on cleaning up certain aspects of their communities (As we have done for decades), but forcing citizens to run their lives the way that some fringe dwelling alarmist sees fit, absolutely goes beyond anything which I could ever advocate. I believe in getting ourselves off of ME/foreign Oil dependence, and finding more efficient energy systems, but doing so at the detriment of freedom and liberty is absolutely unacceptable.

It's true what they say, that NWO grunts and agents like to employ the strategy of doing exactly what they are accusing the opposition of. This clip was a wonderful example of that.

Who is the one making personal attacks? Surely not the one unfairly accusing the other of employing that exact tactic?

When you think about the 31,000 scientists, and when you really take a look at how the sun interracts with the Earth (and all other solar bodies) there really isn't much of a case for manmade global warming.

Cyclical global warming, or natural climatic fluctuations I can believe in. I can even agree with manmade biosphere degredation. But it's the sun that controls Earth temperatures, how could it be otherwise? Even if we had a circular orbit, and even if we didn't didn't have a wobble, the Sun would still be the most dominant factor in Earth temps. For once this is an area where common sense alone should be enough to question MMGW. And CO2 levels have been much higher in the past, not to mention that it's a life necessity for the majority. Don't they give off oxygen and store carbon?

This area of geopolitics had always been the one area that I had believed had remained true, and still stood for truth and scientific rigour. It came as a big blow 2yrs back when I could no longer defend the MMGW hoax to myself. I had thought I had been trully awake for many years, and yet I was still taken in and became part of the brainwashed herd when it came to the environment.

They're everywhere, and they're into everything. When we think we have already 'woken up' we must never forget to continue questioning our beliefs to ensure against media bias and to enable our decisions and opinions to be formed from the facts and the data, and not from corporate owned infotainment .

LOL @ 6:24 of the OP's video!!

Man, I can't decide anymore when it comes to Climate issues.

There is a bust on both sides, and both sides of the debate apparently have fraud in them from what I've heard and read.

I'm come to the point where I have 2 opinions!!

Nr. 1: The Copenhagen Treaty will result in a treaty being more for economics than anything. The treaty, I believe, (And I emphasize that) is being constructed by a higher power to create a One World Government and establishing control all around. This has been the plan for a Looong while, hasn't it? Well, that's my opinion.

I surely hope it does not pass, and not because such a project cannot have major benefitial potential to the world, but just the fact of giving such a small amount of people such huge a power is never going to work out, and it never has!
I do believe that government is TOO involved, and we could do with Less government.

Of course, the government is SO involved at this point, that taking their involvement away would have to be done very carefully, as it would probably mean, creating a whole new way of living.

Nr. 2: Whether or not Co2 emissions are causing a big mess, and whether or not all this is Man-made is, in my opinion not exactly what matters. (Emphasizing NOT EXACTLY since it does matter, but not to the extent to what it is now, completely overexaggerated!)

What matters to me is IF the world is doing worse than usual, there should always be a call for seeing what can be done about it. Of course, by determining first what is causing it, and then by doing what is needed to stop it's continuation, and to prevent it, may it ever occur again!

I love that somone will realize a problem being done to this earth and want to find solutions to fix it.

BUT, what we are witnessing today is complete exaggeration. Like I said, I'd love to help Planet Earth get better even if it means solving the smallest of problems like picking up garbage in your neighbourhood to the largest of problems like oil spills or more.

________________


The only thing I believe now is that the meeting in Bella Center, Denmark (I live in Denmark) is Bullshizzle and if the world needs help, (which I again, believe it does in various ways) then we can help it, not by creating ANOTHER Tax, but simply gathering the greatest minds today and getting together to Reverse engineer those Alien Spacecrafts for FREE Energy! (haha.)

I'm joking, I'm sure we can create free energy without those, and the only reason we aren't doing so, is because of money!

The worst thing is, the industries cannot realize that IF we actually evolved into the energy age, the only thing that would change their money supplies would be a different business other than the one before.
I'm sure they'd still be making tons of money, just by following the market.

Just like people buying organic foods. If enough people did it, the industry would HAVE to support it, and in that way, you have an industry supporting a better living, still making money and here you go... A better world for all of us.

"Sometimes we think too big, that we loose track of the smaller things. People forget though, the big's are made from the small's."

________________

I don't post much on ATS, but here is my opinion.

Please don't go crazy on my opinions if you think they are completely irrelevant!

"What is true for you, is true for you."

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


So are you saying that I am a nutcase Global warming denier because I view the Global warming agenda surrounding climate change and pollution to be as much if not more about future economics and politics of the world than the warming of the planet?

People who talk about "Global Warming" as if it is the only reason all this crap is being forced on us need to step back and view the whole situation.. there is so much more to it but anyone who mentions the rest is lumped into this category of a "Denier" which is looking more and more like the "heretic" phrase of old tbh.

The EU are pushing for a global carbon offsetting system in order to make our system more competitive.. On top of having this system to curb pollution and environmental damage, it is to wean us off oil before peak oil hits and stalls our economy.. China and India also see this so in return for cash to help them ward off future peak oil, they will allow a global system of regulation/governance to control to an extent their political and economic policies.. this will help the US and EU run the world as China and India emerge..

Add to that all the major companies and Investors who are pushing this for business gains and you have yourself a massive pile of crap with environmentalism being only one tiny part of it..

People should keep an open mind to this and not view those of us with opinions about it as idiots.

OP, I star and flagged your post because it contains a lot of truth.

However, ATS is full of conspiracy theorist who would rather believe a conspiracy than look at any scientific facts about how our atmosphere works and how humans effect it. So you will get a lot of ridicule, lots of denial of basic science, and a bunch of knowingly incorrect statements about global warming being fake because of certain observed things that fool them, and they ignore any logic that explains said observations.

So good luck replying to their ignorance.

reply to post by ZombieOctopus


Eloquently put, I've been thinking the same kind of thing lately. Like many I have gone through arguments from both sides, with an open enough mind to have been swayed at times in both directions. But I am getting more and more convinced that the skeptics are playing a King Canute role now, in the face of the incoming tide of worldwide calls for action on the issue. For many people in the world this has become a very real cry for us all to do what we can to ensure that mankind's exponential growth in population, consumption, transformation and redistribution of resources doesn't create scary and sometimes terminal tactile changes that are being experienced in their environments.

Yes the skeptics can often say that things have happened before, but it's the breadth and speed of simultaneous activity and changes being noted across all continents, plus the fact that mankind was simply not present or active in so many of those environments in the same way he is today in any of those earlier examples, that may swing it. Mankind is and has been re-shaping and altering our environment more dramatically and on a vastly greater scale, cumulatively, in the past hundred years than has ever been seen before.

It seems more and more unfortunate that politics, economics, and an empire's suspected demise seem to have contrived to muddy what may at other times have seen a more confident and ambitious nation shock the world with it's leadership, and a desire for unity and action that would not be swayed by such jaded resistance to a grand scientific challenge.

I understand most air disasters are attributable to not one single, but usually a combination of things going wrong simultaneously, usually including human error, and I suspect the climate change we are now witnessing will turn out to be the same kind of scenario.

The thing is, the MMGW skeptics seem to want us to proceed to take off even though there's a growing consensus, including the crew, that suspects something is possibly wrong, it's time to put the brakes on guys.

And now we see the final refuge of those who will still believe in Global Warming, despite calculations to the contrary (and not just mine), political posturing by the UN, leaked incriminatory emails, admissions of cherry-pickling and poor code used in the models.

Now, when all else has failed, and Copenhagen's 'shining triumph' is potentially dimming, we have the Great Weapon released to make everything good again: "get them to fight amongst themselves".

"You, the faithful of the Church of Climatology, go ye forth and cry aloud to the masses that your way is the only way! Those who dispute you, the heretics, have been labeled as 'deniers', and as 'ignorant'; now they will be labeled as 'neocons' as well! Rejoice my children, and take heart that these labels will allow Gaia to once again rule with fairness and mercy, with us your saviors as your worldly leadership!"

"You, the truth-holders, you may have been branded as 'deniers' and as 'ignorant', but have no fear! Your light of truth shall shine among the religious fanatics of the Church of Climatology! Victory is ours! Do not fear the 'neocon' label, but rather fight against it! You shall be triumphant, for the truth is on your side, and the we, the leaders of truth, shall lead you to utterly destroy your enemy!"

...

I, the one who watches, am ashamed of my species. For in a world of shades of grey, we can only see black and white.

TheRedneck

reply to post by Dermo


Good post. I suppose, in the context of the original post, which specifically refers to conspicuous USA 'Neo-con' political involvement in the MMGW denial/skeptic camp, and in light of the timing of the current Copenhagen conference, and the MMGW believer concensus on an urgency toward utilising windows of opportunity in which to minimise the effects of MMGW against their models for continued warming, it is a sense that the USA is unfortunately arriving at the table/decision making with a very heavy pollution/emissions per-capita (the highest in the world), and is lagging behind other players in activity already taken (and increasingly offered) to reduce emissions, plus has this terrible economic challenge, together with what appears to be this growing partisan political situation... I am just wary that a (my) possible leaning towards open-mindedness on broader suspicions and economic conspiracies may be 'used' by the 'Neo-cons' to de-rail what the rest of the world, by and large (and I am thinking especially of the many small island nations, and equatorial/tropical nations pushing hardest) take as a serious present physical and mortal risk to their homes and lives.

[edit on 7-12-2009 by curioustype]

reply to post by TheRedneck


Fight amongst themselves (minions) theory/conspiracy/trend existed way before MMGW ideas, and it's not as if they've run out of alternatives, so why invent MMGW, seems a very obtuse/expensive option to me? Plus, look at the debate on it, wouldn't they have come up with something more convincing?

reply to post by curioustype

Take a look at this post from another thread. I think it'll answer that question.

We're entering Step 6.

TheRedneck