Aircraft suspended in mid air (personal sighting)

reply to post by 5thWorldIsNow


You know, just because you've read some hogwash on the internet doesn't make it true. Some actual evidence would be good, but in the case of that website? PURE GARBAGE.

reply to post by atswheat

The truth is that there are planes being witnessed (and videotaped) behaving so oddly as to leave no doubt that it is more than an optical illusion.

No. People either don't understand what planes are doing, or are not seeing planes, and they think they are.

If the amount of "evidence" was as good as you're claiming, there would be no doubt that we are being visited. Which, isn't the case, at all.

I also mean no personal offense, but simply claiming to have an pilot's license doesn't discount the fact that extraterrestrial/multidimensional beings are now visiting our planet. And that this is being documented. The two are unrelated.

The theory. Not the fact. You've no proof that can convince anyone 100% about those claims.

And it isn't documented. Not in the way proof is documented... We have huge arquives of videos and photos and stories... But not proof.

And yes, it is unrelated. What is related is the capability to watch one of those videos and understand that they are not what people claim them to be.

If one were to read an account of an eyewitness believing to have seen a plane hover, your prosaic explanation would be the first conclusion one would come to. Most would agree there.

It is odd that people from around the world are reporting odd behavior with what appear to be domestic aircraft. Why? Are we just so ufo crazy that we are just pointing at commercial airlines and calling them ufos without foundation?

There is one thing that people forget about this "oh, now we have huge ammount of reports". We don't. There is a difference between the amount of reports, and the way you know about them.

Now, a UFO case can happen in China, and through the internet, you're able to know about it in the US.

Speed of information doesn't translate in volume. The amount of cases didn't rise, you simply are more aware about it.

As for the last question... Yes.

Are all of these people deluded or insane? Before any evidence is even presented, my immediate response is, "Why are these people talking about domestic aircraft as if there were something unusual about them?"

No. Of course not. They simply don't know what they are seeing.

In addition, we are also seeing very long, persistent jet streams being sprayed by invisible planes, planes with distortions and misshapen wings, planes that hover in one spot, and planes with lights that often virtually cover the entire body of the plane.

I'm sorry if I don't answer to all your points, but this just jumps out.

The airplanes aren't invisible. The atmosphere is simply in the way. People forget about this a lot.... The sky isn't transparent, it IS blue (during the day, obviously), it has color and density, that's why it works how it does...

You don't feel those effects in close range, but after 20,000ft, you do. The aircraft appears to be blue, or under water, and there is a point that it actually disappear, because it becomes too small and to "covered up" that it actually disappears...

The streams don't because they are huge.

This just shows how people don't understand what they are looking at, and it's such a simple thing like watching to something that is above us every day.

You can dismiss these out of hand, but if you were to get experienced, professional videographers, special effects people, physicists and pilots to study these videos you may be shocked at what you learn.

I would actually love to see that data. Especially the one coming from pilots.

As for that picture, without a source, I can easly dismiss it either way. In a first look, it looks fake to me.

So what are we seeing here?

A bunch of videos of light flares on the lenses, of people who don't know how to id an aircraft, fake videos, and people who give wild interpretations of mundane things.

The pink aircraft really gave me a laugh.

I could honestly debunk all of those videos, but honestly, they are so poor that it isn't worth it.

reply to post by atswheat


atswheat....really?

You're looking at those YouTube junk videos, and being convinced...what??? That they aren't 'normal'?? Really???!!???

First, take a moment to understand the effects of a zoom lens --- especially when combined with a hand-held camera that is not steady enough to provide a good picture, and ALSO when the camera pans, or the person holding the camera walks around. I'm talking about the relationship between things in the foreground, and very far distant, and the illusion of motion (or illusion of LACK of motion) that results.

Just watch about any TV or theatrical film --- you will see constant examples of this. Thing is, in a movie, you are so interested in the action and dialogue, you don't notice the cinematography. Wath a movie with the sound off, as if you were studying the director's techniques, or the art direction.

AND, in you bunch of videos you linked...I got as far as the "Flying Cross" one to see it is nothing but a commercial airliner, at high altitude...OUT OF FOCUS!!! And, sometimes the sunlight reflected off of it.

Really...you have to stop and consider, for a moment, that the people uploading to YT might be very yound kids, with no real-world experience. THEY might believe they have "seen" something, because they aren't educated enough to understand it. OR, they're punking people on purpose.

OR...they are not operating with a full load of brain cells....

I have seen one YT user who videos jet airplanes at night...OBVIOUS jets, taking off and landing at an airport nearby...and HE claims they are triangular UFOs. He even talks to his girlfriend...whom he thinks is onboard. (Finger swirling around side of head...that man needs help, pronto!)

Another YT sensation made international news some months ago...two kids, with an LED flashlight. They made a video of the flashlight's reflection in their bedroom window, posted it, and everyone thought it was a circular UFO landing, or taking off...they used a five-dollar flashlight, and a video camera. Sheesh!!!

There is nothing normal about many of the videos I linked to.

The amount of evidence that we are being visited by ETs on the Internet is overwhelming. But the fact is that many won't believe until the government or their scientific institutions says it's so.

Admittedly, there are people who've had these experiences who admit to experiencing it, but still not believing it.

Watching only a couple of these videos will prove that they aren't just kids playing with a camera, nor are they some sort of lens flare(?).

Really, lens flare? On all of them? Are we going to play the NASA ice crystals game?

And there won't be any pilot data for obvious reasons. If you're a pilot, then you've likely seen things you can't explain - but you aren't going public about it.

Many pilots have indeed made statements that this just isn't talked about, and refuse to go public for various reasons. We don't need to go into the whys.

If one isn't inclined to take the time to look at everything that's been submitted for consideration, then one isn't being sincere in their evaluation of said material.

It's clear some aren't prepared to impartially go over what has been submitted, but instead wish to promote their own viewpoint without legitimately refuting the evidence presented.

If one comes into this conversation with preconceived notions, then there's no chance for the possibilities presented in this evidence to affect this foregone conclusion.

It's difficult to claim an honest, objective point of view if the evidence is dismissed out of hand.

For those who wish to actually take the time to look at the videos I promise you will see something that defies explanation.

Too many are waiting for the media and other regulated social institutions to admit to something that they are paid off and threatened against speaking about.

How anyone can come to this site without this basic understanding is beyond me.

Neither these public institutions, nor our governments are going to tell us what we now know as fact. The reader can make their own determination as to why that is.

So to suggest that evidence is worthless without these institutions' stamp of approval is mind control ne plus ultra.

Apparently, no one is able to assess data on their own, in a critical manner, without some outside agency, whom they have appointed as an arbiter, telling them it's legit.

Well, I've seen this stuff in person, these and other videos, and highly credible testimony, and all of it tells me this is real.

It's already been argued to death how any sort of evidence, barring the very exceptional, is virtually worthless because all of it can be faked.

Well, in this case, there must be some critical thought, reason, open-mindedness to the possibility, and basic intuition to assist one in assessing this (and other) evidence.

Is it rational to believe there are commercial airlines hovering in mid air? Given what we've been taught about physics, no.

Have we seen (meaning credible witnesses, as provided through testimony and evidence) things that defy what we've been taught about physics? Yes.

Especially, at AboveTopSecret, one must come with some rudimentary background information.

If your belief is that extraterrestrials and ufos aren't real because it hasn't been reported on CNN and the White House, then no evidence short of a trip on a ufo will convince you.

For everyone else, I say these videos are very compelling evidence in favor of the fact that there are planes in our skies that aren't ours.

The magic words, "lens flare", "ice crystals", "swamp gas" and "Chinese lanterns" work on a multitude of people. They just don't work on me.

It's hard not to watch these videos and not call a duck a duck. Belief is a powerful thing. Even in the face of prevailing logic, belief will hold firm, even though the foundation be rotten.

It may seem impossible, but the impossible is now possible. We aren't in Kansas anymore.

Originally posted by atswheat
Belief is a powerful thing. Even in the face of prevailing logic, belief will hold firm, even though the foundation be rotten.

You might want to reread what you wrote here, since it can be taken many many ways... Belief is powerful, but that doesnt mean its right. Sort of like Glen Becks ridiculous 'Believe in something... even if its wrong!" spiel.

And no the evidence is not overwhelming. The 'perceived' evidence is overwhelming, but the real evidence is extremely small, even so that small subset of undeniable evidence regardless of how small still says that yes, there are 'UFO's regardless of what ever that term might mean.

It's hard not to watch these videos and not call a duck a duck

The problem is your asking people who see a Goose to see a Duck, since its so hard for you to not see a Duck, then everyone must see a Duck. Beliefs dont really require validity from others to be your beliefs. It seems your asking for validity in your own beliefs by saying how can anyone not see what you see.

Especially, at AboveTopSecret, one must come with some rudimentary background information.

As well as a good dose of sceptisim and common sense knowing there are lots of people out their looking for a quick minute or two of fame. Temper your beliefs since while a heavy conviction is admirable, it also makes you sound stupid, and nothing more than a gullible unbending fanatic and the validity of your word is far more important than your strength of belief.

If one comes into this conversation with preconceived notions, then there's no chance for the possibilities presented in this evidence to affect this foregone conclusion.

That door swings both ways. Im a firm believer in UFO's, but posts like your own seem to be becoming the majority in this forum lately, and its more a fight about whos perceptions are right rather than any actual objective co-operative work in figuring out the answer. Sometimes the answer is one you might find hard to swallow, but some times truth is a bitter pill... it aint all a conspiracy, all of the time.

With common sense, UFO sightings are very rare, actual evidence for such sightings even rarer... as such given the numerous internet evidence... the vast majority of it is therefore nothing but hoax's or the misidentified mundane. Therefore to champion that majority of evidence only hurts your credibility.

Heck 2 nights ago, I saw a flash while sky watching that wasnt a slow build iridium flare, it was decent in size, and that exact location immediately after had a 'satallite' in it, which while moving dimmed then flashed, vanished, slowly reappeared a second latter, did a small flash, dimmed to almost nothing then did a big flash again , did some more flashing and dimming then changed course by about 30 degrees then dimmed out to nothing... was it a UFO, or tumbling space junk?... I say uncomfirmed, and if someone told me it was space junk id probably agree with em, since it fits the bill quite well.

I wouldnt sit there and say "hell no it was a UFO, away with you skeptic!", since I have no way of knowing for sure myself... which is exactly the same for all this overwhelming evidence .

Better to air on the side of caution, least you end up with egg on your face latter down the road

[edit on 6-12-2009 by BigfootNZ]

Hi, BigfootNZ!

I didn't expect to get too involved, but your response was thoughtful and well-reasoned.

I wish I could respond to more of your points, but I have limited space. I'll just hit a few.

Originally posted by BigfootNZ

Originally posted by atswheat
Belief is a powerful thing. Even in the face of prevailing logic, belief will hold firm, even though the foundation be rotten.

Originally posted by BigfootNZ
You might want to reread what you wrote here, since it can be taken many many ways... Belief is powerful, but that doesnt mean its right. Sort of like Glen Becks ridiculous 'Believe in something... even if its wrong!" spiel.

I meant it as you read it. That belief in something doesn't make it an objective reality. Beliefs will color our view of the world to the point that we can ignore something right in front of our face.

To me, what these videographers shared is clearly extraterrestrial/paranormal. That is, if you've come to the conclusion they're not faking these videos. This takes further investigation.

I've come to the conclusion that they are not. Someone else may come to a different conclusion.

I will add that it won't be due to a lack of compelling evidence, but one's "belief" - despite seeing this - that it is impossible for a plane to act in such a manner.

Originally posted by BigfootNZ
And no the evidence is not overwhelming. The 'perceived' evidence is overwhelming, but the real evidence is extremely small, even so that small subset of undeniable evidence regardless of how small still says that yes, there are 'UFO's regardless of what ever that term might mean.

If you consider government documents, NASA evidence, The Disclosure Project and all of the other credible, vast, and growing number of eyewitness testimony and evidence "extremely small", then we disagree on this point.

For those who don't spend a moment researching the subject, the evidence is underwhelming. For those who do more than scratch the surface the evidence is indeed compelling and overwhelming.

One can't determine this by simply watching television.

Anyone who's done any amount of research cannot in all honesty say that there is very little evidence. The physical evidence, for one, exists in the crop circle phenomenon.

I am taking it for granted that we have established certain data points here at ATS; ufos/ETs are real being one of them.

Originally posted by BigfootNZ
With common sense, UFO sightings are very rare, actual evidence for such sightings even rarer... as such given the numerous internet evidence... the vast majority of it is therefore nothing but hoax's or the misidentified mundane. Therefore to champion that majority of evidence only hurts your credibility.

The underlying position your response seems to favor is that the majority of the evidence is composed of either fraudulent material, or "false positives" as it were; that the majority who claim sightings or contact are fabricating those events for some sort of recognition, or are mislead.

I appreciate your time and effort in responding to my post.

I gather you consider the ufo/ET phenomena a possibility, despite the lamentable fact that it just doesn't appear to be supported by physical evidence.

After my years of researching the subject, I've come to the conclusion that evidence enough to convince a jury of murder is enough to convince me of the reality of contact and, more recently, that we have planes that aren't acting according to natural physical laws; planes that may be piloted by ETs.

I have to say there is something of the sublime in the phenomena occurring now; something that is very personal, immediate and profound.

It's clear that this is, alas, as much a personal journey as it is our journey as a race.

We each have our own path to travel, and indeed, perhaps to carve on our own as well.

reply to post by atswheat


I'll debunk the videos later. But for now, I'm just replying to your last post.

To me, what these videographers shared is clearly extraterrestrial/paranormal. That is, if you've come to the conclusion they're not faking these videos. This takes further investigation.

How can you jump from 8 to 80? You're pointing at the wild explanation BEFORE rulling out mundane explanations.

The first two videos weren't of a plane. Too bright, too much movement. They can be anything, but they are not aircrafts.

I've come to the conclusion that they are not. Someone else may come to a different conclusion.

Why?

I will add that it won't be due to a lack of compelling evidence, but one's "belief" - despite seeing this - that it is impossible for a plane to act in such a manner.

This is just wrong on its base, friend.

Something being real isn't about belief. Its about proof. If you have proof, people don't have the choice of believe, they have to accept it, because its real! It's like saying that water is wet, you don't need proof for that.

But in UFO's, you need proof, because we never "hold one in our hands". You can choose to believe on the debatable evidence out there, but that doesn't mean that your belief is right... It's just that, your belief.

If you consider government documents, NASA evidence, The Disclosure Project and all of the other credible, vast, and growing number of eyewitness testimony and evidence "extremely small", then we disagree on this point.

Most, if not praticly all, of NASA/Gov documents are debatable. That's why there are believers and skeptics, and thats why we discuss this things. You don't have anything 100% sure. Everyone agrees on that.

As for the Disclosure Project, you mean those guys who say "hey, we are briefing the President" and they do the same thing I would do if I wish to send a letter to the president saying "love your hair, XXX" ? That isn't credibility, that is propaganda.

They haven't produce anything substancial.

As for the "pure" evidence (videos/witnesses/etc), well, like everyone states, only 95% of those are "real", in the way we can't explain them , and its on that "lack of understanding" that aliens and spaceships are allowed to get in like a plausible scenario.

For those who don't spend a moment researching the subject, the evidence is underwhelming. For those who do more than scratch the surface the evidence is indeed compelling and overwhelming.

You're putting everyone on the same bag, which is false.

I know a lot of people (I'm one of those cases, and there are many here on ATS) who do their own research. The difference is in what we accept as evidence, and what we diggest and think "oh, this is interesting".

If you want REAL evidence, or at least "smoking guns" (like some like to call these cases), look for Internos and jkrog08 threads. There are a lot more, I know, but these are the ones I admire the most for their work.

Anyone who's done any amount of research cannot in all honesty say that there is very little evidence. The physical evidence, for one, exists in the crop circle phenomenon.

anyone who makes his research and ANALYZES the data, will come to the conclusion that MANY of the data is fake, mundane, or any other simply thing. Again, the cases that are "real" are rare...Very rare.

The underlying position your response seems to favor is that the majority of the evidence is composed of either fraudulent material, or "false positives" as it were; that the majority who claim sightings or contact are fabricating those events for some sort of recognition, or are mislead.

But he is right...

I'm making this up, but it's very well plausible that the realfake/mundane ratio is like....10 fake/mundane cases to 1 good case. If not even higher...

You can tell this by just visiting the HOAX section...



[edit on 7/12/09 by Tifozi]

Where is the daylight video of a 747 type plane hovering with no sound? If it's so common why only chem trail type vids? If you saw this in Florida why didn't you take a vid with your cell phone or something? I was willing to give this the benefit of the doubt but then I see the "proof" is just a bunch or unrelated youtubes so it looks like somebody trying to make something out of nothing.

Originally posted by atswheat
I appreciate your time and effort in responding to my post.

I gather you consider the ufo/ET phenomena a possibility, despite the lamentable fact that it just doesn't appear to be supported by physical evidence.

Not a problem, im as ardent a believer as yourself actually. I believe the phenomena exists without a shadow of a doubt. And for me physical evidence isnt really required.

Tifozi pretty much said what I would have.

Its just that alot of the evidence I read gets filed away in the 'interesting, but impossible to really tell' folder of my brain. If the evidence is overwhelming then why are UFO's still scoffed at?... its because that overwhelming evidence just by the very rare nature of the 'real' in the subject cant be that overwhelming without most of the rest of it being 'fake'.

And its that 'fake' material that does the field of Ufology such great harm to its credibility, and unfortunately in todays world, the 'fake' is far to easy to create and the average citizen is unfortunately rather ignorant and far to saturated in fantasy to even realize that sometimes what they are looking at and filming isnt something mysterious.

Its that added flotsam that makes the job of finding the 'real' in Ufology so much harder now days, you just cant trust the vast majority of witnesses accounts or evidence like you once where able to, and it also makes you alot more cautious about what evidence you stick your beliefs to. Its the reason so many of the well known people in the UFO field have it seems recently been having huge blows to their credibility, in an attempt to please they tie their flag to what ever.

And as you say its a personal journey for the most part. Always take the middle road however its safer and tends to have the best views

theory of an intra-dimensional experience.

Wow, sound like a

... mass-psychology experiment, the Nazi alien religion was used to
stretch the credulity of the German people, so they would believe whatever
Big Lies their government told them.

Giving us the dimension lies again.
They can't talk straight cause its the same UFO technology.

reply to post by Matteroni


yeah i was the one driving that day!!! i can confirm this sighting, the plane was suspended in mid air.

Originally posted by 5thWorldIsNow

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by 5thWorldIsNow

 

It doesn't, really. No more than a Eurofighter or an F-22 to be honest.

It's not classified "above top secret" either, otherwise you wouldn't even know it exists. As it stands, much of the technology behind it is understood.

As for your claims of anti-gravity being used on it, how do you explain the great big, noisy, dirty jet engine in there? What about the huge turbo fan behind the cockpit used to generate the downforce needed for it to hover? What about a recent USN report that the decks of their Aircraft Carriers need reworking to cope with the sustained high temps of the jet blast?

Methinks your talking out of the proverbial....

I can tell you are a debunker, a cabal asset who is paid to disinform. The information I provided comes from my heart center; no lies.

Anything that flies is antigravity. Duh. Its not magic, itrs not magnetic/gravitic repulsion its called FLIGHT.

I do beleive that there are UFOs disguised as planes however. The occupants don't realise that people will notice when what appears to be a "plane" hovers silently in one spot and then vanishes!

I had a similar event about a week ago. I didn't feel like it was relevant to post anything without any sort of evidence.

I was walking home from work when I noticed what look liked a plane a few hundred feet away. It was moving when I first saw it and then it looked like it started to slow down. I literally stopped walking after it came to a complete stop. After about 45 seconds to a minute of just watching this thing that looked like a plane (hard to make out the shape, it was late at night). It finally moved, and it went straight over me at what seemed to be a fairly slow pace for a plane.

Also, I normally take the bus home but I decided to walk that day..

This is interesting... I've never experienced seeing any of this but after reading this thread I have done some searching.
Google has a bunch of these stories

unitedstatesufo.blogspot.com...

www.city-data.com...

reply to post by atswheat


I tried to send a private message twice to you about your posts ... but it looks like that aint happening..... if you get to read this I just want you to know.... Your Right .... they do try to blend in with the environment.... but they dont all need a craft .... there are beings that are pure light .... the more a persons energy vibration raises the easier it is to see and make contact ;o)

I've seen this too.

It's an optical illusion. If you pulled over and stopped the car, you'd then see the plane moving.

It's all about relative speed, direction of travel, etc.
I can say that I've seen the exact same thing, and like you, I was floored.

So, I pulled off the side of the road, and then saw it for the illusion it was. (I used to drive right by an airport and USCG base on my way home from a previous job).