You have all gotten in bed with the enemy.

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss


Ok, I’m going to try to respond for the sake of denying ignorance. But just going to warn you in advance how cynical I am about it amounting to anything. Because I’ve been down this road MANY times now with other sure-of-themselves ats members and it leads nowhere since they ALWAYS end up on their heels and ONLY concerned with protecting their own ego rather than actually denying ignorance. Since you already came into this thread guns blazing I have very little hope this streak will end here…but what the heck let’s give it a shot.

Now I’m saying all this since you’ve already apparently profiled me as some zeitgeist hippy red idealist - only fair I get a shot at you. And needless to say at this point I’ve seen your “type” enough times to write a book. You’re sooo in love with how much more anti-establishment and in-the-know you are than everyone else you completely reject anything that threatens this narcissistic paradigm, no matter how much it actually makes sense. In fact the more it makes sense, the angrier and defensive you just get. The way you started this discussion with how I “almost had you” but then immediately proceeded to attack me based on loosely connected personal issues you seem to have with the Zeitgeist Movement only adds to my point.

In regards to the climate change issue - you get all your information from sensationalist media sources or unreliable blogs, so you just assume everyone else does too. However, yours are automatically validated because they’re so anti-establishment. Thus they can’t possibly be full of #### themselves, so you never bother to actually fact check them or investigate the whole story. You just assume anyone who bothers to do that is clearly brainwashed by the Man and trying to fit things into their pre-conceived beliefs, because there’s no way that could possibly in fact be you.

Now at this point you’re probably smirking to yourself about how arrogant, naïve and hypocritical I am to just brazenly declare you the brainwashed one without taking a look at myself. But you see - this isn’t just cynical experience or defensive posturing talking – because in fact I have proof.

It’s right here:

What does plastic have anything to do with "Global Warming"? If you truly cared about the environment you might realize that global warming alarmism diverts attention and energy away from real-life, undisputable problems like the plastic issue you're now mentioning.

The fact that you even have to ask this question tells me everything I need to know. It clearly shows how much YOU have been conditioned to think Global Warming “alarmism” is ALL about “global governance and taxing the air we breathe yaddi yadda” and all that political junk.

In the meantime – you yourself are championing the “undisputable” environmental problems associated with plastics but of course without even bothering to ask yourself where plastic actually comes from!

So the fact is global warming completely draws attention to these issues, not diverts from them – because they are all intrinsically related and part of the same bigger problem. But you have to actually think about it instead of just thinking you already know everything there is to know.

And this is just a tiny taste of how much bigger the whole story really is. I have tried to connect some of the dots in the OP using little more than common sense and everyday observation (something which you apparently label as “fearmongering” lol) but even that is only scratching the surface.

Yet it’s funny how about 50 other people on this thread seem to get it immediately but you completely missed the point because you are apparently so much more aware than all of us brainwashed “communists”.

Again, I’ve seen it a million times at this point – so it’s nothing new. You want to prove me wrong – then fire back with something actually constructive instead of foolishly cocky about how little everyone else supposedly understands about global warming or the environment *yawn*.

Originally posted by Chevalerous
reply to post by mc_squared

 

Wow! I can't believe that I've completely missed this great OP of yours!

Very well written Sir! - If I could give ATS applause you'd certainly have one!

But I'm clapping my hands right now and I give you one standing ovation instead!

Thanks! This thread is actually a few months old and was started when all the sensationalist rhetoric and propaganda over climategate was at it's peak. I just thought I'd try to bring the issue back down to Earth with some good ole fashioned common sense and critical thinking.

It's good to see some people around here still have that

Originally posted by mc_squared
Ok, I’m going to try to respond for the sake of denying ignorance.

You mean, do a long winded Ad Hominem wanna-be Hannibal Lektor response? Read your post. The only thing you actually quoted was me responding to your Red Herring / Straw Man side argument about plastics.

Still waiting for you to respond to pretty much everything Ive said...

And you wanna talk about hypocrisy, yet you started this thread with guns blazing about how everyone except those in your view are in bed with the enemy; you're entire OP and the rest are based on sensationalist Corporate Media sound bites; virtually the entire post lacks any citations backing up your claims; you arrogantly speak as if you've descended from the Holy Mountain with the total truth and everybody else are fools; etc.

Now at this point you’re probably smirking to yourself about how arrogant, naïve and hypocritical I am to just brazenly declare you the brainwashed one without taking a look at myself. But you see - this isn’t just cynical experience or defensive posturing talking – because in fact I have proof.

Still you haven't debunked a single response of mine towards pretty much everything in your OP and elsewhere. Or have you?

It’s right here:

What does plastic have anything to do with "Global Warming"? If you truly cared about the environment you might realize that global warming alarmism diverts attention and energy away from real-life, undisputable problems like the plastic issue you're now mentioning.

The fact that you even have to ask this question tells me everything I need to know. It clearly shows how much YOU have been conditioned to think Global Warming “alarmism” is ALL about “global governance and taxing the air we breathe yaddi yadda” and all that political junk.

Do you have a point? Plastic WASTE junk out in the sea isn't a direct result of 'global warming'. Yes, the most quality plastics we use are a 'by-product' of Petro extraction. You might consider taking a few nights studying logical fallacy lists. In reality, even if humans had absolutely no use for the fuel aspects of Petro, we'd still be extracting it for the other compounds within it in, in particular the chemicals used for making high grade plastics. The real issues with that disgusting beach fall into the realms of human WASTE, the Establishment selling us junk products meant to break in 6 months, mismanagement of waste disposal, and, get ready for this: over the past 5+ years about 90% of all environmental-related discussion being centered around "global warming" instead of in your face undeniable and measurable issues such as the garbage 'continent' out there in the Pacific. Don't even come in here pounding your chest like this unless 1. you quit using electricity and automobiles, and 2. you've quit using plastics. Otherwise you might as well go buy a mansion with 9 bathrooms and 5 bedrooms like Al Gore just did.

Enough with your straw man plastics argument. I'm waiting for you to respond and debunk just about everything else thus far. You have plenty to work with back there.

I readily admit that I did not read the other pages except for the 1st page. Thus in all fairness, I will not argue on the pros or cons of heavily fought over issue of GW.

I only wish to add my 2cts here because of the thread title and the accusation of the OP that we are sleeping with the enemy - the NWO.

Sadly, the one who is actually sleeping with the NWO is the OP. The NWO is more than just about GW. They are everywhere, just like the islamist radical terrorist, living amongst and sharing our lives, intwining himself with us.

The NWO has fingers in every pie, not just one issue alone. Social, political and economic spheres are littered with their fingerprints for ultmate domination of mankind.

When one get hot and heavy fighting only on one issue, then you are truly in bed with the monster, because that multi-headed devil is willing to engage you on one issue, keep you occupied and let you presume its the main issue to defeat, but it was only actually the honey pot, as the other heads of different areas happily and gleefully sink their bare sharp fangs on humanity.

To fight the NWO is NOT by brute force, but surgical strikes on issue by issue, critically analyzed in detail, not lump with other issues to avoid generalizations, dicussed, debated, revealed and then to tear them apart, head by head.

The NWO is only a Cerberus, not the hydra dragon which can continue to grow another head once it is lopped off. The Cerberus can be defeated. Once all its head is cut off, it will die.

Therefore knowledge critically analysed, discussed and debated will lead to actions to stop the NWO in its tracks. With no human support, it will die.

Humanity ultimately will need an NWO, but unfortunately, it cannot be flawed man or a fellow mortal as the leader. We have seen the excesses and incompetence of the current NWO, and it will be foolish if not foolhardy to allow such cretins to rule.

Better we stick to check and balances for any mortal man to rule over humanity or a nation till that being comes along to Earth and lead mankind to a high plane of existance and I don't mean ELE.

[edit on 8-5-2010 by SeekerofTruth101]

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


Perhaps he took my advice and quit using electricity... You can't SCREAM too loudly about global warming if you still eat meat, transport yourself in automobiles, use a desktop computer instead of a laptop, use plastics in general and not wash and save every one of them, grow most of your food in your own garden, and so on.

yay, love the back slaps, yeah, these deniers are just fallen into the hands of the man, yeah right on

What a load of rubbish, this first post does exactly what you would expect from a movement saving the planet without thinking of concequences.

1. the fat cats are not running scared.
2. the media gives us what they want us to hear.
3. schools are teaching children enviromental studiies.

1.The fat cats are calling for the carbon tax, we reduce our consumption yet our bills are still the same?
work that out, we change our light bulbs, we turn off the lights we do not use and still our power bills are the same.
so after you have done all the reducing you can, what next, the bills will still go up in the name of researching renewable energies.
we drive more energy efficient cars yet it costs us the same to run?
very strange indeed, we use less fuel and it costs more to buy.

2. The media give us all the information we need to argue, keep us occupied, a little message of global warming here and then a leaked email about fudged data there, and the media put it out?
ever thought this is a way to keep people distracted, the hidden messages everyday, we listen to the music they let us hear, we wear the cloths they let us wear and we eat and drink the foods they give us because of advertising.

3. Kids at school learning enviromental studies, and where do you think this idea came from?
Its called indoctrination, our children are taught what they are allowed to learn and they pick up very easily, my 5 year old tells me about recycling (which we do anyway) as to save the planet, why is a 5 year old telling me we have to save the planet? because that the agenda.

The fat cats are waiting with baited breath for a carbon tax to be introduced, because they will not only get richer but more powerful as they will be the ones who control how much we are allowed to use.

It is our youth of today who are calling for the tax to save the planet, not the old, it is them who are so distracted that they are willing to sell their soul to the devil without realizing the concequences of their actions and the pressure is on that it must be done fast before more people wake up to the carbon tax scam.

you will never stop producing CO2, you will never be able to get away from the tax even if you try and live off the grid, your compost heap will produce, your animals will produce and you will produce, what a perfect control mechanism, a natural gas that you must pay for.

I know most will take this with a grain of salt, but hopefully some will stop and think that nothing happens by accident and while we are all distracted the one thing that unites all mankind is going to be taxed and we will all have to pay.

I feel like resurrecting this thread on account of the new Zeitgeist film "Moving Forward" coming out online in 3 days. I already saw a screening and can verify much of what was talked about in this thread is covered in the new film. Don't feel like debating it any more really...either people get it or they don't. *shrug*

Our society has been completely hijacked by corporatism via mindless overconsumption and materialism. If you look at our (completely broken) economic system it doesn't make any sense that people should be suffering through periods of economic recession when none of the resources have changed. It's all just a giant farce to maximize the rich getting richer off the backs of the sheeple who somehow still think they're "free" while they're drowning away in mountains of debt.

I believe the climate change issue is the biggest catalyst today for bringing this system down because real solutions to this problem involve rebuilding our entire economy into something sustainable and practical. The only way this can work is if it serves everyone's needs, not just "theirs" - which is exactly why "they" are fighting so hard to obfuscate and deny it now that the issue is finally coming home to roost.

Meanwhile people have become so brainwashed by this propaganda it is downright frightening to see how much critical and independent thinking have gone out the window. Here's a compendium of info the more egregious "skeptics" absolutely REFUSE to look at because it makes them look like brainwashed hypocritical FOOLS:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d265a3100987.jpg[/atsimg]

Scientists' Report Documents ExxonMobil’s Tobacco-like Disinformation Campaign on Global Warming Science
Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air: How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco’s Tactics to Manufacture Uncertainty on Climate Science
Statement of Dr. James McCarthy: Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight House Science Committee
Koch Industries: Secretly Funding the Climate Denial Machine
The Climate Killers
32000 Scientists
Climate Change - Meet the Scientists
Understanding Climate-Change Skepticism: Its Sources and Strategies
THE HEAT IS ON: The warming of the world's climate sparks a blaze of denial
Climate change deniers
The Denial Machine
Big Oil creates phony climate denial site, lies about it
Conspiracy theory? That'll be the deniers
Karl Rove BRAGGING that "climate is gone" once the Republicans regained control of Congress


Here's a list of all the myths and memes like "All the planets are warming up" repeated by these disinfo selling shills, and what the actual science says on them:

Skeptic Arguments and What the Science Says


Here's a great article on the conflict between climate change and corporatism...er I mean capitalism:

Climate change v capitalism: the feast is almost over


And here's a teaser from the new Zeitgeist film which really says all that needs to be said about this mess: