Are these really in the Bible? If so...can they be debunked?

Hello

I was sent this youtude video that shows passages taken from the Bible that are almost impossible to believe!

You guys with Bible/scripture knowledge can you try to debunk this video. If the the video message is true then something is really wrong with the God of the Bible and His followers..if they carry out His commands. And if the followers do not carry out these evil commands then they are living in sin?!?!!?!?

The Top 10 Reasons Why the Bible is Repulsive

www.youtube.com...

Oi vey.

I don't think you can debunk these points, they are indeed in the Bible.

I knew there were passages like these but I'd never seen them all in one spot before.

Scary stuff.

You are intelligent enough to know that over the years due to the many confusing CRUSADES THE ORIGINAL BOOK AND TEXT HAVE BEEN TAMPERED WITH. This TAMPERING CAME FROM WHOEVER/WHATEVER? "WON" the CRUSADE, BY EITHER burning the books adding to the original text or by some LAME DICTATOR ADDING TO IT TO USE IT "THE BIBLE" as a minipulation device simular to what the OP IS DOING, SMH to controll the MASSES THAT WOULDNT OF WENT FOR A GOV. TYPE SYSTEM CONTROLLING THEM SO SOME SMART A$$ FIGURED USE THE RELIGIOUS TEXT TO CONTROLL THEM "THE MASSES". Now back in time these minipulations would of seemed to be the norm but since this is the future they seem so ABNORMAL. Just as today the minipulation has sent 2 VERY LARGE RELIGIONS TO FACE OF FOR FINAL BATTLE -TRICKERY-(THE SAME MINIPULATING ENERGIES STILL EXIST). So I ask you dont minipulate with this thread for you are contributing to the FAIL OF HUMANITY, FRIEND.

[edit on 12/3/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

I do not understand your title.

"if these are in the bible"

"can they be debunked"

How can you debunk them if they are in the bible?

How do you debunk scripture that was written in languages that do not translate correctly into the language you "read" (or at least post in)?

Further more...each one of these quotes are very popular with the "frightened atheists club".

Yknow the club...the ones who are so afraid that someone may have "faith", so they organize large gatherings or missions to stomp out whatever "good feelings" a "god lover" may have.

Gotta love people who believe in nothing higher then man...because they love to try and destroy anyone who trusts in "something better".

Oh well...debunk them, I can not.

Originally posted by Mr Mask
I do not understand your title.

"if these are in the bible"

"can they be debunked"

How can you debunk them if they are in the bible?

How do you debunk scripture that was written in languages that do not translate correctly into the language you "read" (or at least post in)?

Further more...each one of these quotes are very popular with the "frightened atheists club".

Yknow the club...the ones who are so afraid that someone may have "faith", so they organize large gatherings or missions to stomp out whatever "good feelings" a "god lover" may have.

Gotta love people who believe in nothing higher then man...because they love to try and destroy anyone who trusts in "something better".

Oh well...debunk them, I can not.

I do not have a Bible and was thinking maybe the text was taken out of context to make it seem so vile.

Hey I have some insight into this but I doubt you will be happy with it here it goes. The degree of evil that was abundant in the world at that time was such that many of the tribes around the Israelites were sacraficing their own babies to their gods. There was to be such a distinction between these incredibly evil groups and Israel that God had to put into place severe judgments in order to establish a redirected lifestyle with in the hebrew people. It was harsh, to the extreme but outcomes such as the death sentance for those who didnt observe the sabath and others like it kept these early hebrews on the straight and narrow. Otherwise they would have started down the path little by little into paganism and eventually ended up right where other tribes and cultures were. God didnt want that to happen and these severe laws kept the hebrews in line. Remember also that there are always two sides to a coin and that for the most part, the rules that were given to the Israelies were given to keep them healthy with the establishment of sanatary laws, help them establish civil governance with the establishment of judges, and provision for the common man in caring for widows and orphans and the poor.

reply to post by Hemlocks


Oh man, that was pretty amusing. Talk about putting not thought into the verses at all or looking at context!

Example 1: The Sabbath

The maker of the video's point with this point is that because American's work on the Sabbath we should all be killed because the Bible says. The flaw in his argument is that this Law, even back in the Israelite times, only applied to those that followed Judaism. The Israelites weren't to punish those in surrounding nations that didn't obey the Sabbath, only those in Israel. In other words, it was a faith specific thing. Putting aside that Christians are freed from the Law, considering that many people in America are Christian in name only, why should they suffer the consequences of something they don't adhere to? Know what I mean?

Exodus 31:15 is often translated as "should be put to death". From what I've read though, it can also be translated as "should be cut off". This can be done in more ways than death. If also could mean a death other than physical, like was meant in the Garden of Eden. It could also mean that the Lord himself would punish the people.

Example 2: No gods but God

This kinda ties into points made in example one. It is an Israel, and it's theocracy, centric thing. It didn't extend to other nations. Thus, the video maker's argument falls apart when he tries to apply to America as a whole. God didn't demand that all that don't believe in him be killed. Only those in Israel to reject him. This, too, could be viewed in another sense than physical death.

Example 3 and 6: Kill those that don't obey parents

I think that the maker of the video missed something interesting here when trying to show that rebellious kids were just offed because they were bad. Take a look at Deuteronomy 21.20:

and they shall say to the elders of his city, ‘This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton and a drunkard.’

This wasn't a one time thing. The representation was a little off.

The child had a history of being rebellious, to the point that the parents had no other recourse. To the point that he was useless in the society that they lived in, in both the spiritual and social respects. When this is the case, the person had to be punished somehow.

Example 4 and 5: Kill adulterers and homosexuals

These arguments bring up God's command to kill adulterers and homosexuals. A command to do so makes sense in the Israelite world, which would've been much different than ours. (Sometimes, we must remember that things were slightly different before the 20th century and often God worked within how a culture was.)

There are two things that I see here. Purging yourself of homosexuals could be viewed as something to be done from a pure survival stand point. The race wouldn't keep going. Then there is also the spiritual reason. God promised that the Messiah would come, through a certain line, namely of Judah, eventually from a certain family, David's. If the Israelites were to be allowed to sleep with whomever they wanted, lineages would be messed up, thus making it near impossible to know who the Messiah was when he came.

Example 7: Removing the eye

This, to me, was the most amusing of the bunch. Two of his reasons for Jesus' statement in Matthew 18.8-9:

And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life crippled or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into the hell of fire.

are pretty funny. They are:

1. Jesus is an idiot.
   
2. Concept of Hell is repulsive.
   
3. Repulsive because Jesus demands self-mutilation.
   

I can't do anything about the first two, really. You have to decide that for yourself. Especially the hell thing. I just don't find anything repulsive about people's sins being paid for.

Here's what I can say about that third point though. With his through picking apart of the Old Testament, I'm surprised that he missed this verse in Deuteronromy. Fourteen verse one:

You are the sons of the LORD your God. You shall not cut yourselves or make any baldness on your foreheads for the dead.

In that verse, God forbids maiming oneself. Now, considering that Jesus was an obedient Jew, who said that he was sent by God, why would he have told his followers to sin by maiming themselves? Any Jew would have been able to call him out if he was doing something contrary to the law. Thus, Jesus' remarks in Matthew shouldn't be viewed literally.

Jesus in Matthew was using hyperbole. He was emphasizing the necessity of the disciples leading lives that have had sin radically removed, so that that sin wouldn't lead to judgment. For example, if having a computer is causing you to sin against God, it is better to get rid of the computer so that you don't sin.

Example 8: The Bible is sexist

This one is a good example of why context is important. It does indeed in 1 Corinthians 14:34 say:

the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak...

This is an example of why context is important because Paul says this just a few chapters earlier (11:5, 13):

but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. ... Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered?

So, Paul allowed women to speak in church. So, there must be something else in mind here. Considering the immediate context of these verses, Paul is probably forbidding women from standing up and judging prophecy, since doing such would subvert the male's leadership role in the church.

In 1 Timothy 2, Paul was using the using creation (and God's previous statements throughout Scripture) as an example of how church leadership is to be. Adam, the male, was created as the leader. Thus, in a church setting, women aren't to teach, which is a leading role (because Eve was deceived).

In the end, this prohibition only extends to the assembly as a whole. Women aren't prohibited from teaching women or children. they're just not supposed to take the role of pastor or elder since in God's scheme men are the leaders.

To say that Christianity is sexist has been a claim that has always amused me much.

Example 9: The Bible supports slavery

In the Old Testament God did allow for slaves from the other nations. The Mosaic Law regulated it, and thus, human rights weren't violated. From my reading, slavery was much different back in these times than it is today, especially among Israelites. A slave didn't cease to be God's image bearer.

The New Testament though makes no provision for slavery. The only mentions of it are in cases where there were already slaves. In these cases, Paul exhorted those slaves that were Christian to obey their master faithfully because they were their authority, much like we're to obey God since he's our authority. Is there really anything wrong with that? The reasoning being that, through your actions, your master will come to know Christ as savior.

Also, while there were those that tried to justify slavery using the Bible, the abolishonists pointed to Philemon as an example of slavery not being the best practice. The video's maker only gave half the story.

Example 10: Random repulsiveness

The passages he gave were Isaiah 13, Hosea 13, and Numbers 31. Each quotation was obviously one verse, but he never gave the verse. I haven't gone and looked through the passages to get their context, but I bet that knowing the context would prove very helpful. Perhaps someone else can lend a hand.

reply to post by Rockstrongo37


I think that you're not too far off the mark. God did want their to be a distinction between the Israelites and the surrounding nations. This is because it was through the Israelites that God would be known. If Israel lived like the surrounding nations, there would be no need for them to stop worshipping Ba'al and turn to Yahweh. The severe punishments probably was on way that God tried to go about this. God also would have, in some respects, tried to "form" what he did to how the mindset of the people were or what his plan was. This sometimes seems harsh to our "enlightened" 21st century minds but would have been normal for them. We can't always view things through 21st century glasses.

reply to post by Hemlocks


Well, lets try to have some understanding. The first thing the video tells us is the OT part of Bible is completely useless for a modern day society. The video is exactly right there. That's why Jesus came to change us so we would no longer need it.

The first thing to know about the Bible is that Jesus was the savior. Okay, but what was he saving us from? That's what people so quickly forget. He was saving us from death by sin and therefore the laws off the OT. The OT refers mostly to the Jewish people that promised God they would follow all those rules and in return he would make them his holy people. So, it's a contract they got themselves into and Jesus came to get them out.

Yeah working on Sabbath. The first thing to know is that Jesus worked on the sabbath himself. Another thing to know is that when the adulterous women was brought to Jesus to be stoned to death, Jesus didn't stone her to death. Nor did he destroy any towns or kill any livestock and the Bible tells us we should be like Jesus.

So, to be like Jesus then it's perfectly okay to not judge and you don't have to stone anybody because Jesus didn't and it's perfectly okay to work on the Sabbath just like Jesus did.

In the OT the price for sin was death. That's why it's so repulsive, but we no longer have to die for sin because Jesus saved us. How? By dying for our sins. Since our sins are paid for, we no longer have to pay for them again via the rules of the OT. That would be paying for sins twice. People no longer understand this though and are confused about the Bible.

So, people go around saying Jesus died for our sins all the time, but they no longer understand what that means. What that means is our debt is already paid and so the OT laws no longer apply.

The law is the same as it always has been. The price of sin must be paid through the rules of the OT. But it already has when Jesus died for all of our sins. So, without changing God's word, Jesus saved us from it.

When it comes to cutting parts of your body off if they cause you to sin? Well, Jesus uses an if clause there. IF a part of your body causes you to sin. Now, that's not likely to happen, but the point remains, if a part of your body causes you to sin in a such a way you can't control it, then perhaps it is better to just cut it off.

For example if a murderer was going around killing your family members. Perhaps it would just be better if the murder cut off his hands and legs so he couldn't do that anymore. Unless you're saying you'd rather have the murderer keep his hands and kill your family?

As for slaves? God couldn't just come down and remove slavery. Wouldn't have worked. He had to remove slavery over time. Don't believe me? Look at the American civil war and the civil rights movement. Politicians gave more and more rights to African Americans over time. Couldn't do everything at once because it would lead to massive riots, wars, and economic collapse. It had to be a slow process. If you think God is evil for trying to get rid of slavery over time instead of all at once then you have to be just as mad at the leaders of the civil rights movement.

Ever tried to economically compete with a company that has slave labor? Let's look at China for example since their labor is paid so cheaply. What do American companies do? They don't compete with it. They shut down their company and send it over to China because labor is cheaper there. That not only hurts America, but causes more slave labor too. In other words, slavery is contagious. It spreads.

When the OT was written this was at a time when everybody else already had slaves and the Jewish people were just starting their own society. Without slaves of their own for labor and to fight in wars they wouldn't have stood any kind of chance against the neighboring civilizations. They would have just fallen apart and if that would have happened there might not have been any Jesus or any America to come along later and finally get rid of slaves. We may still have slaves today.

Slavery is a race to the bottom, just like we have the same problem with China's cheap labor today. Once someone else is doing it cheaper than you, you have to do it the same way or you go broke. So, once slavery starts it's very hard to get rid of. Well, it was already started at that point, and we see how hard it was to get rid of and it still happens in other parts of the world today. We're still NOT DONE!.

But the Bible was the first time slaves got any rights and they followed all kinds of rules when dealing with their slaves. But it was actually just the very first step of getting rid of slaves, but just like the American politicians and civil rights leaders, you just can't do it all at once. It's a slow process and you usually have to start in the middle somewhere.

Just like politicians that tried to pass slave rights bills long before trying to eliminate slavery completely. But we don't blame them. We understand that getting the south to give up its slaves without a war (which we had anyway) and getting America to give minorities their rights was a slow process. We don't blame them for that. We're understanding. However, when God does it the same way because he's smart enough to understand these things we turn it back on him? Why? We ended up solving the problem the same way God told us to.

By giving slaves more and more rights over time until they were eventually free. So, God's method worked to free the slaves, and of course that makes God evil but the civil rights leaders that did the same thing are heroes right? Of course. Why didn't I think of that?

[edit on 3-12-2009 by tinfoilman]

Originally posted by Hemlocks

I do not have a Bible and was thinking maybe the text was taken out of context to make it seem so vile.

Some of the reading in Leviticus,Deuteronomy,Corinthians etc is truly disturbing and bordering on the sociopathic.

Here are some other 'instructions' dealing with stoning people to death:

Getting stoned if you touch the holy things:

Whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death. Exodus 19:13




Getting stoned if you take accursed things:

Achan ... took of the accursed thing. ... And all Israel stoned him with stones, and burned them with fire, after they had stoned them with stones. ... So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Joshua 7:1-26




Getting stoned if you curse or blaspheme:

And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:16




Getting stoned if you're raped and don't scream:

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city. Deuteronomy 22:23-24




Getting stoned if you're an ox and gore a human:

If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned. Exodus 21:28




Getting stoned if you marry when not a virgin:

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her ... and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: And the damsel's father shall say ... these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. ... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die. Deuteronomy 22:13-21




Getting stoned if you worship other gods:

If there be found among you ... that ... hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them ... Then shalt thou ... tone them with stones, till they die. Deuteronomy 17:2-5

If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers ... thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 13:5-10




Getting stoned if you disobey your father:

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother ... Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city ... And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21




Getting stoned if you're a wizard or a witch:

A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:27




Getting stoned if you give Molech your kids:

Whosoever ... giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones. Leviticus 20:2




Getting stoned if you're a sabbath breaker:

They found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. ... And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones.... And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. Numbers 15:32-56




Getting stoned if you curse the dictator:

Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 1 Kings 21:10

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by octotom


LoL... I love how you make up your own interpretations. I am not even going to get into all your crazy assumptions but here are a few:

1)According to you children should be killed if not up to your or your societies standards? LOL...nice one

2)According to you those still practicing Judaism and break these laws are still subject to death.

I give up...religions are a joke.



[edit on 3-12-2009 by Hemlocks]

reply to post by Hemlocks


Badda-bing badda-boom.

What else can you say about those disgusting passages.

Well, I suppose you could post paragraphs and paragraphs explaining why they aren't that bad... but you end up accomplishing nothing.

No rational person can defend these passages.

reply to post by muggl3z


exactly!!!!

religions===========MIND CONTROL ON THE UNEXPECTED MASSES

reply to post by Hemlocks


So, if your mind was already made up and you weren't looking for discussion or knowledge, why did you bother posting the thread?

[edit on 3-12-2009 by tinfoilman]

Here are some inspirational random quotes taken from the Torah that are as bad as those take from the Bible. What were these Jews thinking about when they wrote this stuff? Religions=mind control!

Quotes from the Torah (unbelievable evil [ murder/racism...] again in a supposed holy book)
Quote

To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be
equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about
them, they would kill us openly.

Libbre David 37


A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books
contain anything against them.

Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17


When the Messiah comes every Jew will have 2800 slaves.

Simeon Haddarsen, fol. 56-D


On the house of the Goy one looks as on the fold of cattle.

Tosefta, Tractate Erubin VIII


When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same
Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall
be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to
no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156


If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the
Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the
face of the earth.

Choschen Hamm 388, 15


That the Jewish nation is the only nation selected by God, while all the
remaining ones are contemptible and hateful.

That all property of other nations belongs to the Jewish nation, which
consequently is entitled to seize upon it without any scruples. An orthodox
Jew is not bound to observe principles of morality towards people of other
tribes. He may act contrary to morality, if profitable to himself or to Jews
in general.

A Jew may rob a Goy, he may cheat him over a bill, which should not be
perceived by him, otherwise the name of God would become dishonoured.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat, 348


If a goy killed a goy or a Jew he is responsible, but if a Jew killed a goy
he is not responsible.

Tosefta, Aboda Zara, VIII, 5


Kill the Goyim by any means possible.

Choshen Ha´mishpat 425:50


Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice.

Zohar, Shemoth


Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to
be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form,
and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L


A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a
piece of meat.

Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348


A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl.

Gad. Shas. 2:2


Do not save Goyim in danger of death.

Show no mercy to the Goyim.

Hilkkoth Akum X1

The old testament and the new testament seem like two completely different religions to me.

So, I see the old testament more or less as ancient history before Jesus came.

reply to post by tinfoilman


Hopefully to enlighten others to this farce that we call religions! At the time of the post my mind was not made up on the Reliability and Validity of the video. I had thought that maybe the text was taken out of context or altered...but now I see it was not!

[edit on 3-12-2009 by Hemlocks]

reply to post by Hemlocks

LoL... I love how you make up your own interpretations.

Is that not the nature of interpretations? Someone reads something and then interprets it themselves?

1)According to you children should be killed if not up to your or your societies standards? LOL...nice one

No, that's not what I believe.

2)According to you those still practicing Judaism and break these laws are still subject to death.

Not exactly. The discussion isn't about the adherents to Judaism though. It was about the Bible and things that it said. I merely tried to give a defense and a reason for why they're there. If you took the time to seek through the Scriptures yourself,

These are tough issues that aren't going to be solved by one video on YouTube or one post on a discussion board. Every person has to take the Bible as a whole and what the Bible as a whole teaches and draw their own conclusions. There are some things taught in the Bible that tie to the Law, and these issues in particular, that make a lot of this clearer. (In addition to looking at things in the social and historical contexts.)

reply to post by tinfoilman

In the OT the price for sin was death. That's why it's so repulsive, but we no longer have to die for sin because Jesus saved us. How? By dying for our sins. Since our sins are paid for, we no longer have to pay for them again via the rules of the OT. That would be paying for sins twice. People no longer understand this though and are confused about the Bible.

That's an awesome way to put some of the Mosaic Law into perspective. I never had thought about it that way before. It's so simple, yet makes a lot of sense! I may have to steal this from you for future discussions.

reply to post by Hemlocks


This is the third time this week Atheists have brought these questions to my attention and that's just this week. I assure you we're enlightened and I assure you these questions have been addressed before numerous times if you just do a Google.

Now, I understand if you personally had questions about the video because you didn't know the given answers and I'm perfectly willing to talk about it, but if you already had your mind made up, then why waste good people's time to answer questions again if you're not willing to hear the answer or the discussion anyway?

I could much better spend my time answering questions for people that actually care you know?

[edit on 3-12-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 3-12-2009 by tinfoilman]