The Time of Gentiles Is Over

reply to post by pasttheclouds

The reason I brought this all up is because of the idea of equating fire with understanding and this story of Abraham seems to me to be the best example of that. Your explanation of something being released is interesting because that is one way of looking at the reactions or transformations that fire will do to something.
The vision of the smoking oven and the flaming torch seems to indicate the presence of God, but it is somewhat toned down from the rhetorical version of God, to something that may be symbolic of a person gaining understanding.


[edit on 16-1-2010 by jmdewey60]

its important not to forget the next sentence,
To your offspring I give this land, from the river of Egypt up to the great river, the river Euphrates,

The river of Egypt , one half
the river Euphrates, other half
blazing torch appeared and passed between the pieces
the animal were seperated, in between was the fire, the oven,
the guidance.... between egypt and the euphrates.

Egypt = ignorance, from egypt to the land through dessert = struggle
Euphrates = one of the two (4 also, there are different levels and meanings in everything) rivers (tigris), the two rivers symbolise duality,
but the four rivers symbolise the 4 woman. 2 servants, 2 free.
Babylon is located on the sweet waters (= Euphrates).
But every symbol mostly has 2 sides. A negative and a positive.

Lamech had 2 woman, his name means SERVANT,his woman DAWN/LIGHT and SHADOW/DARK

"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared."


offspring israel, curse and blessing as fire in between, guidance

passing by halves... torch = guidance in the dark

you understand how far levelled the bible is ?
every story is connected to another, on different levels.

You know the rape of dinah ? (meaning : judged)
daughter of jacob (not son), jacob before becoming israel,
abducted by Canaan 'prince'. Daughter was defiled, by Canaan.
Canaan is symbolic for the in lies living womanside of you,
before turning in israel. The prince of the old worship place
raped the daughter of jacob, which means before being israel,
which means salvation.
The prince called Shechem is symbolic for what ?
Shechem is the FIRST capital of the kingdom of Israël.
Later the are was inhabited by the SAMARITIANS. They were outcasts, and worshipped at mount gerizim, the mount of blessings (!!), where sechem is located between the mountains of curse and blessing.
AS the torch passes between the divided animals, abraham offered at the same place.

but every symbol is in duality:
amos 6 Woe to them [that are] at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, [which are] named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came!

at ease in zion means, blind trust in the blessing, means that part of israel that exercises false peace (ignorance), and will take the wrath of god as the whore that carried the curse. But whole of israel will return, even after their hardening. Thats why they are sperated as curse and blessing, to offer the world, that has less tribulations, choice.

Thus saith the LORD; As the shepherd taketh out of the mouth of the lion two legs, or a piece of an ear; so shall the children of Israel be taken out that dwell in Samaria in the corner of a bed, and in Damascus [in] a couch.
Amo 3:13 Hear ye, and testify in the house of Jacob, saith the Lord GOD, the God of hosts,
Amo 3:14 That in the day that I shall visit the transgressions of Israel upon him I will also visit the altars of Bethel: and the horns of the altar shall be cut off, and fall to the ground.

this verse says were the son of man is to be found, symbolically, and how it will be raised up, the metaphors are about the son of man getting born from the strangest symbolic places, lion means conquer, fighter and king.
But it also means attack, and the shephard finds his legs to stand in that attack and an ear to listen. So again double meaning.

All those countries are symbols, all those rivers are symbols, every place of ancient israel is a symbol.

every story is connected to another one.
Most stories tell a duality. as a step in a stairs is dual from
the perspective you stand.

Its a pity god didnt allow me to tell in a university way,
people would actually listen, but he lets me talk like this,
so nobody hears. Simplicity is where god is.

Amo 5:5 But seek not Bethel, nor enter into Gilgal, and pass not to Beersheba: for Gilgal shall surely go into captivity, and Bethel shall come to nought.
Amo 5:6 Seek the LORD, and ye shall live; lest he break out like fire in the house of Joseph, and devour [it], and [there be] none to quench [it] in Bethel.

SEEK NOT THE OLD PLACES OF WORSHIP.
always search the law in everything, god is one.
This is the new place, new jerusalem.

eternal rest is promised at gilgal in joshua... gilgal is the beginning...the end is the beginning again, back home...eden
earth > sea > earth again.


[edit on 16-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

...Jeremiah 48:40
...For thus saith the LORD; Behold, he shall fly as an EAGLE,
...and shall spread his wings over Moab.

...Jeremiah 49:22
...Behold, he shall come up and fly as the EAGLE, and spread his
...wings over Bozrah: and at that day shall the heart of the mighty
...men of Edom be as the heart of a woman in her pangs.

out of moab is the woman of jesse !!! mother of david
jesse = bethlehem, (benjamin)

out of moab is ruth, return to bethlehem at time barley harvest !!

in rabinnic sources the man couldn't come in,
but the woman could, which means the created can come in,
but not the old husband, the lie.

solomon had maobite woman

okay, im going to quit writing to much confusion right now
what i try to do is making clear how you can confirm gods law
in his stories. But this is not a job for everyone, and there is no time left so everybody could understand all this.

people can focus on The law of One.
People just need to focus on this law to come home. It's their goal.
In One all is equal, but it means before being One, it is opposite of equal.
no functions is less important then the other. but tasks are different for everybody. Value is the same.




[edit on 16-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds
I'm not ignoring you. I'm sitting with my mouth hanging open. You're on a level I can vaguely glimpse. It seems right, but beyond me.

Between me and the Law of Moses stands an angel with flaming sword. Surely the Law of One is above that. I'm still in realm of duality, where I function. Sometimes I fall back into Christianity but then must get out.

I see hints of eclipse, but can't put it in logical words yet. I seem to function well in duality, I will continue thus until I see more clearly.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by pthena]

Moses law is very simple.

blessing: God is One, Love One, Love all
with all your heart, and your soul and all what you have

curse: God is divided, accuse, and find witnesses, if god is one,
there is only one witness and the symbolic law falls away by changin into the spiritual law of the family... where the family is you. Woman/man/child, and the secrets of the offers and temple which are the timetables and justice-scales of creation

But growth works by becoming the curse, and attacking the curse in you, by defending yourself and all others, this is called justification of all, and it justifies God from your perspective, so you can become one at the end of the WAY. The lion attacks, but defends by a double attack, the struggle go inwards against the self. The mantle of love that makes the cup empty, so it can be filled.

There is nothing between this law and you. Because the law is god,
ONE. and it is always the law above any other interpretation. People need to understand nothing can break Gods oneness. And that is the gospel of love.

My bible-understanding is far from perfect. Which i do understand is the law and how it relates to logic. Which all can find now. A human will be incomplete until god allows him to come home.

Forgiveness is reflection. turn the other cheeck means see the positive in all the negtive. Ignorance avoids seeing the negative to change it into positive or sees a negative shortly and has peace with it from a false self-security. If there is only one other person not justified and set free in this world, it means god is not set free by you. Every act and deed is dual, one is perfect in Gods plan, the other side is your personal side where you make the choice to grow or ignore, where ignorance is the sin against the spirit, or in better modern words, pure choice.
There is no hell except in this world. There is life or death. Life is erasing your choice to give value to all including you. Erasing choice only needs a view, if you see a negative, you will want to change it, it is automaticly, if you really see helpless, your heart will respond in most cases. Mercy is from God.

take care !

The lies religions belief are not a bad thing, but people can hide behind the other ones beliefs and not take cross, when everyone has another starting level. Salvation really is the WAY. it means growth. Children. We are children. Jesus warned some would do miracles in his name and he would not know them, how is it possible to be in salvation by a letter name, when his name is ALL ?
Salvation is not based on calling a name, but by acting in that name, the name is WAY and LIFE and ONE.
Do you call on the name of the lord, which is for example jesus as connected to ALL, or on the name of jesus, the symbol that allows you to ignore further growth and feel safe in accusations. There is a world of difference between the 2 jesus names i just gave. Is it God, who is one, or baal, who is divided ?

this message is exactly that what parts of relgion will attack when it will start to shine very soon. Like this god will divide again between the two mountains. And ignorance will feel safe in the message of oneness, when this message will be an invitation to reflect and work. Honesty is work, love is work, care is work and forgiveness is work.

that i still write all this means i am not fully in peace with Truth yet.
But let no-one make you think gods mystery, or lifes mystery is unlogical and difficult. What is one is so simple that it is difficult to grasp.
We struggle with our blindness to see the simple truth.
Free will does not have any logic to follow except itself.
Andlogically Truth is absolute or nothing exsist and at that level free.
God takes his cross through you, to allows himself choice,
and to include what he is not, so he can be all, which means absolute.


[edit on 16-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

There is no hell except in this world. There is life or death. Life is erasing your choice to give value to all including you. Erasing choice only needs a view, if you see a negative, you will want to change it, it is automaticly, if you really see helpless, your heart will respond in most cases. Mercy is from God.

So through the dualism I choose, I look and see that The American Empire forces of CIA, spcl ops, and mercenaries thinking to protect Israel in a paternalistic way reminiscent of ancient Persia actually are occupiers of 'greater Israel'. They have infiltrated Palestinian Authority security forces in order to pacify Palestinians as their land is eaten away. Also hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military equipment is pre-positioned in Israel so as to jump in to defend against Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, Syria.

But that makes the American empire a Gentile occupying force reminiscent of Roman empire. If the 'holy Zionists' rise up against the occupiers will the empire then destroy the thing they thought to protect?

As an accuser, investigative prosecutor, I reveal this thing that leads to massive death and destruction. In mercy I say: "stop this thing!" Do I hate Palestinians? No.
Do I hate Israelis? No.
Do I hate Americans? No.
If I hated them, I would be silent, and laugh. But no, I say 'don't do this!' And even when I'm ignored, and destruction comes, I do not laugh, but rather mourn.

yes, your heart reacts, but although this is difficult for most people
to understand, those organisations are driven by people that sometimes by care go into the negative first...in that situation it is a negative turn of the full circle they make. But god judges on personal levels, and organisations are a mirror of many different ways mixed up together.
I will say plain honnest, Jacob fighted with god, and you were probably and will be in your life many and many times angry on god, because what you judge is part of that god. and it is good, because you will justify him more by the understanding you get, only accusations are in need of an open ending, so they can turn around.

This is how the curseside actually works.
Partly ignorance keeps the full circle of becoming positive.

But i am not talking about your example as a real example of this,
because in this world you can only generalise, to de-generalise.
IF god exists, what happens has a good side, for you to discover,
i know this sounds hard, and god cries for the pain he takes through us. It's not because God is perfect and our pain part of that perfect, that god likes it, god takes a cross for a reason, and it is our job to find that reason in every unjustice we still see.
We do that by care, which is a practical way of seeing, which is repenting.
But the cross of this reality implies a pain that god will never allow himself to carry again. He will never like it, love is not always the same as taste.
People mix taste and love as one thing. It is not. Love in the strict meaning means acceptance, which is setting free. even the ugly has the need to be set free, to be understood as just.

Be always carefull, israel as the zionist state is not one person, they are many people, just as america is, and you will have people who are so hurted and so afraid that their capacity does not let them see the option of peace. Be carefull seeing organisations as dominating our history, they do not. Sometimes things look to be real, when they are made up by life to allow development of this reality.

To be honnest, sometimes avoiding war/pain as option does not exsist, what will happen in the times to come can only be avoided on personal level by full capacity, thats why there is need of hope and worldchange and that will be driven by the cry (OUT of the wilderniss, not in the dessert he will be) and the moon that will become full. the moon stands for michael, prince and sons. But even that light will be rejected, because before they will bring peace, they will bring reflection, and reflection hurts and after a first glimpse will bring a hurricane.
(those who are in judah flee to the mountains = wisdom = reflection )

It is very important never to generalise, generalise in your mind as much as you want, but keep the honesty to recognise the things you blame as a reflection of yourself. Maybe you would not kill, but people when driven in fear and in full capacity become insane, insanity is not guilty when before that there was always a try to reflect back. This is called preparation.
Ignorance will act the same way, and yes, your reaction of love is a warning from god to them, but in the same way you will get a reaction from god because of the fight/judgement you do, which will release it in its right time. Never fake forgiveness, forgiveness is the goal, but before that there is growth and anger. How more you see, how more you carry in the moment, and how less you will have to carry in the future, how more you carry by your own choice, how less others will be able to take from you. This is the Jihad against the self. The dying every day again of the NT.

What i tell you now is how the script of revelation works.
There is a difference between whore and beast.
Religion is not what it seems to be today, people speak other words then their hearts dictate, and when the moment of stress arises, their hearts will proove themselves by the preparation they did.

Humans all fail against each other. Someone who does his best, will there where his priorities are not, still make the same mistakes as what he tries to avoid...this will only release the day you can see justice in the pain the world carries. Which is only possible by care and tears.

Israel and its surroundings is one of the most complex situations in the world. Even more strange is that one can wonder if the real israel is maybe partly on the other side of the israeli border hidden in what for us seems Jordanian or Palestinian blood... Iron will fight iron as written in the bible.

That the world fights over oil (annointing, preparation) is also symbolic, i tell you this because
religion will not want to see how simple life puts its truths in history happenings. Mostly they will use it to confirm their beliefs but nothing outside it. There is oil found in israel not long ago. All shadows of the things to come. The eagle landed on the moon 40 years ago, remember eagle, moon and 40 years ? Everything in our history is a mirror. The earthquack in port-au-prince, the first country of freed slaves is also symbolic. (freed slaves = prince = michael= quack = moving of earth = moving of created/rest) I know i have to be carefull putting it like this...but everything is a symbol in this world. for us to find the meaning. A god that is one is found in every human heart. It does not need religion but cross which is growth.

I dont know if this answer helps you.

Until the end of understanding you will cry on your way(wilderness/dessert) for care,
so yes it is good to react on it, but never make something absolute when it is not yet. There was a difference between John the Baptist and salvation. your care will confirm the gospel / your way by your mouth, honesty never shuts up. But first it tries to shut up

sometimes truth is boring and/or hurtfull, not nice.
Wormwood.



[edit on 16-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

It is very important never to generalise, generalise in your mind as much as you want, but keep the honesty to recognise the things you blame as a reflection of yourself. Maybe you would not kill, but people when driven in fear and in full capacity become insane, insanity is not guilty when before that there was always a try to reflect back. This is called preparation.
Ignorance will act the same way, and yes, your reaction of love is a warning from god to them, but in the same way you will get a reaction from god because of the fight/judgement you do, which will release it in its right time. Never fake forgiveness, forgiveness is the goal, but before that there is growth and anger. How more you see, how more you carry in the moment, and how less you will have to carry in the future, how more you carry by your own choice, how less others will be able to take from you. This is the Jihad against the self. The dying every day again of the NT.

I think this helps. Some people have told me I should just be at peace and serene because God is one. But that never made sense to me. It seemed rather selfish. All religions teach alms. The reason is that what is physically needed can not be ignored no matter how at peace with one's self any one is. Of my own choice I stay in duality so as to help if possible those in need. I don't know how to be serene and do useful things at the same time.

If I understand the Jihad against self at all, which I'm not sure I do, it would imply a fight of duality in duality, until the fight is done. And to sit back and pretend it's over when it's not would be error.

I think you agree.

Israel and its surroundings is one of the most complex situations in the world. Even more strange is that one can wonder if the real israel is maybe partly on the other side of the israeli border hidden in what for us seems Jordanian or Palestinian blood... Iron will fight iron as written in the bible.

There are many with mixed blood since the Assyrian deportation. I don't think genealogies were kept. In Ezra's day people were purged out who couldn't prove their heritage. Their descendants still live nevertheless.

[edit on 16-1-2010 by pthena]

yes i agree, but the way is never static, dont generalise the way
the way is salvation and changes all the time.

first there is an attack, then there is an attack on that attack, called defense, but then there comes an attack on that defense and it goes on and on On the same time you kill one lie, seven will come back, it means many more circles of negative and positive on the same time, in the same way a clock has more pointers to minutes and hours...so sometimes a person can look very negative when actually he forgave much more then a peacefull looking person .
but even that is a generalisation. And in our capacities we are all different.

What you gave as example, oneness so be in peace is part of the second beast of revelation.
Pats of religion will react on what will shine, but ignorance will feel safe in the new call, when the call is made to make them work, not avoid work. We can know the goal, but that goal needs to be confirmed by the logic on our way. It means you can't just accept oneness as truth without confirming it in your mind. Jihad against the self, means work means salvation.

Oneness when felt in the heart will always REACT, not be in peace before it is allowed.
But ! see the difference between words and intentions, people say that 'dont worry' because actually they do worry
In the same way many people who had a terrible life will find hope, and still say that had a happy life words are not intentions.
Thats why religious beliefs in many persons are not tested yet.

the issue about 'israel' and its blood is partly a false issue for the simple reason israel from the old times symbolises destiny, and destiny is hidden. Even for destiny himself. It means no human can 100 % know if he was made to function in that reason, feel yes, but this feeling is an extra motor to make equal.
After logic sets you free and salvations comes its way then there is real knowledge.

In every human conflict you have both sides to reflect. The one who says the most sorries is not always the one who is the most wrong. A sorry is another word for reflecting a reaction coming forth from you. And seeing yourself in the other.

[edit on 17-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

yes i agree, but the way is never static, dont generalise the way
the way is salvation and changes all the time.

I try to build logical constructs in an existential way, and let them collapse later when a new construct is needed. I don't know yet if that's a proper method. It does provide a way to avoid static systems.

I think I'll re-read some of what you've written already.

I am sorry i dont always write clear, what i write is difficult to explain in one mail, it is 30 years of my growth i try to put in a couple of mails.
Time is ready, i can not stop talking because there is so much to say.
And every word i say reflects me back to the thing i still have to do.
But then i know i'm at that gate for 2 years, and every day i live in the hope to make it complete. And every day God gives me another day of work. And every day i fail to make it clear. Because it is not my job, but yours. That's why God will shine, as invitation to reflect. By my avoiding to be useless god made me more useless every day. Until the cup is empty i talked, in a childish way. Structured language is something i never could, it would have removed time from the growth i needed to do. Everyone has his own priorities. Make God as one, Truth as one, ours.

There is no need for the world to hear what they desire is bad,
Desire is not bad,
desire is what drives our motors. We do not have to be subject to the old teachings but improve the interpretations of those true teachings of the old by honesty. Desire is good, God only knows desire and fullfillment. But in this world we better try to reach our desires by letting them implode us, by reaching desires in the opposite direction then by taking, but by giving. What gives allready has. What is one has everything so it can give, even before it really has it. Our task is to set free, if we set god free, we set ourselves free.

God has all our human qualities, except what is in peace will not take, because he allready has. Thats our goal.

Jealousy is not bad, it is human, but the usage is dual, you see jeaulousy and you use it to set the other free from it, or you are driven by it and react witout reflecting back. In the old times names were put because duality was not fully explainable for all yet. Buddhism has many truths about a place of truth, but before oneness is peacefull it is a fight against the self. There is a difference between goal(absolute) and way (relative)
still.

Ignorance is the god that does not fight for the I, which is a WE,
it will try to change the laws and times. Jesus spoke for the Father as One, Him, Oneness, we will not receive but if another one comes to speak in his own name (not one, not seeing all of us as part of himself), him we would receive. Happening all over history and again.

A real prophet knows responsibility is shared. And our mistakes are his.
Salvation will defend the ones that attack it.

People think tribulation is an invention, it is not, for some a lot, for some less but it is our way.
Jonah maybe failed because he had things to learn first,
but in the end he was right. It's by seeing fear, you will avoid
being driven by it the day it wakes up.

Religious teachers think sometimes that people get burden because of judgement, better is to say they released judgement and one can wonder if those teachers preaching from their places of safety did allready the same thing. I am talking about the accusitions about Haiti. What those people suffer they contributed to the cross allready. Judgement is the same penny as cross. Thinking people get hell because of wrongdoings makes you exactly that what you accuse, people sometimes receive hell because they have good hearts. What they paid they are free off.
Sometimes the worst places are where God is most alive. God did not choose this world, he allows it by no choice (which is choice). Pain is no judgement, but release of judgement.
This is exactly why Job could not agree with his friends. Burdens are not to punish but to release. How more you see, how more you will take on your shoulders, how less you still have to carry later.



[edit on 17-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

And every word i say reflects me back to the thing i still have to do.
But then i know i'm at that gate for 2 years, and every day i live in the hope to make it complete. And every day God gives me another day of work. And every day i fail to make it clear. Because it is not my job, but yours.

It sounds as if you won't be speaking much longer? I was hoping for some help.

We do not have to be subject to the old teachings but improve the interpretations of those true teachings of the old by honesty. Desire is good, God only knows desire and fullfillment. But in this world we better try to reach our desires by letting them implode us, by reaching desires in the opposite direction then by taking, but by giving. What gives allready has. What is one has everything so it can give, even before it really has it. Our task is to set free, if we set god free, we set ourselves free.

I saw one time that what stands between me and my desire is an upside down universe. The inversion maybe you spoke of. It didn't look like all I had to do was invert myself so as to fit, but rather as loving the universe in such a way that together, the universe and I, could gain a different orientation. The end after that would be fiery union. That was only a picture. Making it real is, as you said, some times boring, sometimes frustrating.

Take Haiti, all attention seems directed there. So I look elsewhere for need. As big as the suffering is there, elsewhere there is the same but ignored, and there is no easily provided means to give in those other places. Take Northwest Yemen for instance. If an American attempted to help people there, that American would soon be in prison. Or take the English MPs mission to Gaza, they had to get through many roadblocks and even riots just to bring medicine to people in need. The simple giving of alms is greatly hampered, in some cases made illegal. That's part of the upside-down universe.

Ignorance is the god that does not fight for the I, which is a WE,
it will try to change the laws and times. Jesus spoke for the Father as One, Him, Oneness, we will not receive but if another one comes to speak in his own name (not one as seeing you as part of himself), him we would receive. Happening all over history and again.

Jesus said the the spirit of truth would do the convicting of the god who is less than One, and that he had no part in him. Is the difference clear? Jesus said also by their fruits they are known.

A real prophet knows responsibility is shared. And your mistakes are his.
Salvation will defend the ones that attack it. Our life is similar to auto-immune diseases, symbols of a bigger truth, we attack ourselves and our own defenses. Everything is symbolic, read God by the issues you bear. When a lesson is learned it will heal.

The issues I see most clearly are the ones that spark passion. Without the passion, anything I say is empty of life, as mere hollow words. I have fallen short of defending those who attack, although I see that I should. That is a tough lesson.

Religious teachers think sometimes that people get burden because of judgement, better is to say they released judgement and one can wonder if those teachers preaching from their places of safety did allready the same thing. I am talking about the accusitions about Haiti. What those people suffer they contributed to the cross allready. Judgement is the same penny as cross. Thinking people get hell because of wrongdoings makes you exactly that what you accuse, people sometimes receive hell because they have good hearts. What they paid they are free off.

LK 13:1 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them--do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

To witness disaster is to know that we are not safe from the same disaster. Repenting here seems to mean consider yourself one with those who suffer. Rather than accusing, rather help where possible, and know the same may also happen to any one at any time.

Never stop questioning...you have a solid view on the law of one because for you it seems to be a law of one.

How to defend a law that is one, when we can't see its own oneness ?
It's not by calling god 'god', that we are calling for and in the name of the god that has all names.
People do not need the bible to understand the law, nor having to believe in the dogma of a god to understand the law. The law IS God. The way.
IF they act IN and FROM the law, they are believers, the real muslim or christian, acting from the spirit, not from a sentence or a word.
God his name is All, not excluding anything.

Religion is split up in a many sects and theories, convinced that the absolute is salvation, when salvation is the WAY.
It's not by naming Jesus; Jeshua or Eashoa,
or God Jahweh or Elohim or Lord or Jehovah that we receive
a direct line to heaven, the direct line is always there, in every intention and thought we have, or is god not all, and not absolute ?
Do we call on a full god or a god that is not free, if he is not all,
he is not free.
is the Truth many atheists seek different from Gods name then ?
We are born blind, our goal is to see. not to think we allready do, before we get there.

i'm not going anywhere except to stay :-)
where would i go, i didn't suffer my way to go away
the day i can actually see the sight of real love.

If those alms people give wouldnt sometimes be prevented
to reach their goal, then they could get stuck in their judgements of
false righteousness and the paradox wouldnt have grown in full.
I know it sounds harsh, but this reality is harsh in a way.
Truth can be hard, but those that know it do cry for the justice of that hardness, so it wouldnt be a waste.

Some people are born in the possibility to give, while others are born in a divided society where their first impuls is to defend. Survival is not fully a guilty business. Ignorance does not fully care about survival, without greeting the reflection of seeing the on first sight randomness of loss and shortage others have, there is in absence a survival process and reflex that could have made you understand when others aren't free, you will never be too. If another can not be free, then your freedom is based still on a lie, because you will not have justified the losses and randomness you see, and you will not have justified randomness of the gains you obtained. Ignorance is theft of your own survival, because there is no care for your other selfs placed in other random conditions. You just live the moment and there is where you put your bet. Which is a choice in its own right. Without reflection impulses are lived. With reflection impulses are suffered.

There is a lot hidden in what society calls 'loosers'. Many people who wish to give much are trapped in a spiral where they can't give anything. Because that prison frees them from their own accusing and uses them as lessons for others to learn. While they look 'wrong' for others, others will still try to understand or help them, sometimes by anger. Those people are in many cases the best of hearts. If you change one lie into truth, and as a result 7 others come to become changed by you, will you with all your forgiveness look peacefull ? Is the first view really the real view ?

People get trapped in uselessness because they are sensitive, in doubt, but this doubt is honesty as opposite of ignorance. Everybody has another function, and some will be managing, while others will be without job,
but both of them can be unhappy and struggling the best they can to change something. There is no person enjoying what seems to be laziness, which it isn't, that is pushed on him from above. Mercy is the word to find in and for every situation that seems hopeless, because nobody puts himself there by active choice.
I am gerneralising examples, to make a point. there is a difference between abuse and incapacity.
Job didn't suffer because he did something wrong, he did suffer because he did something right.

Regret does not mean you could have changed it, it means you couldn't, and you accept the pain/'fault' you 'created' by wishing to take it back or away. Which you can't, you can only make it from value, with a reason,
change dark into light. give sense to it.


[edit on 17-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

double




[edit on 17-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds

If those alms people give wouldnt sometimes be prevented
to reach their goal, then they could get stuck in their judgements of
false righteousness and the paradox wouldnt have grown in full.
I know it sounds harsh, but this reality is harsh in a way.
Truth can be hard, but those that know it do cry for the justice of that hardness, so it wouldnt be a waste.

The alms for me is a point of passion. Here, I think, is a way to know God. And the paradox is great. If I give and see the good, then I feel good. No cross there. But if I give and see it prevented from doing what I intended, I feel the pain of it. That's the cross. That's a hard cross which makes me question justice. If I give to help someone else, how can I even feel blessed in bearing the cross of seeing it gone astray? I didn't give for my own benefit, how then can I accept some benefit for myself! That brings anger that I'm not past yet.

For now then that seems the jihad against self. Must I accept this cross and and get the benefit? I feel like railing against it. I want it not to be so.

It used to be that I could travel around and see people in need for myself. People on the side of the road, or standing on sidewalks with cans. Now, they seem to have disappeared, I don't see them any more. I don't know where they went. So I must rely on some one else to find them for me. It keeps getting harder to find someone I can trust.

A few years ago I was going to San Francisco. I had a pocket full of money because I knew there would be many beggars there. We stopped at a rest stop before the city, and a man claimed he needed so much money to be on his way, so I gave him the money. When we were pulling out I saw the same man still asking other people for money. I figured the man was a liar then because didn't I already give him what he said he needed? When we got to the city, there were the ones in need I knew would be there, but I had no more money. Then I was mad. I'm still not over it.

Regret does not mean you could have changed it, it means you couldn't, and you accept the pain/'fault' you 'created' by wishing to take it back or away. Which you can't, you can only make it from value, with a reason,
change dark into light. give sense to it.

The only sense is if God is One then if even I'm the only one benefited there is still justice? That's hard, but it may be right.

I understand you very much, but yes, whats happening to you is building a very tense and deep sensitivity in you. That sensitivity can take away your usefullness now, but it means it will come back double.
It's so difficult to justify god in those wastes of usefullness, that when you do, you will understand even justifying does not always make happy anymore, and that god does not party over this world, but needs to allow it. God dislikes the pain he allows to be put on certain parts of himself by and through us. After the pain is fully gone he will not remember this world. God remembers us in this world. Outside this world he is God in peace, not looking back. It is the woman, created that needs to look back so it can change the past into present into future, make black white so that the full son of man born from the previous son of man married with his bride can give the kingdom back to god and leave this place of lies forever.
This world is not from God, still it is from and In Him. The pit of nothing it is called. Because where god lives his peace he will not remember this place. God is not sitting on a cloud, although he is hidden in confusion for us, which is god on and in a cloud :-)

Behind the clouds, god will not look back at this place, thats why he comes back through humans to show that even when he made them free, he will through them suffer an extra cross to make his love absolute, it means without gain, because salvation was reached.

There is no alm that is thrown away for nothing. Maybe the alm wasn't used directly for good, but the man can have developed a reflection that will change his ways for example, the poor people you couldn't give anything will stay setting an example, and you are becoming sensitive, for that reason it is possible some of them you want to help dissapear from your view. Another possibility is that you grow your understanding for personalities and next time your alm will reach a better goal. Remember sometimes the people with the biggest desire to help have the lowest possibility to do so, because they woudl take away the cross and reflection of others. I told you in the end there is not always joy left, even when usefullness/sense is found.

When you grow a new "plant" (which has different meanings, in this case a new belief, or a new aid, a new giving) it can be destroyed before it is full grown, this is the LOCUST symbol of the bible. It means you are growing your beliefs, trying to be good, and every time something comes in between to destroy what you want to give so the only thing you can do is giving it value by understanding it.

John lives on locusts and honey. Locusts destroy before it is grown,
honey is the sweetness of the reason found.



[edit on 17-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds
I have to take a nap now, and see if I have any intelligent question.

:-)
you don't have too eh, sometimes im a long time here, just taking my time to think...actually i always was like that, even in parts of my dreams i seem to be awake and stay reflecting the same boring way as i do awake, not enjoying a dreamstate but a thinkingstate haha talking about finding reason sometimes it was hard. I wished every day it would stop so i could give something back more then words. Which for 29 years were empty. only the last 2 years in sense, logic and the books brought me home. Only now, not before, to have some value.

Forgiveness as complete is only something you learn the last hours.
My posts never had patience and a lot of accusations.
Blaming myself for not having patience i discovered patience is the goal
after the measurement.

"He would give to" what is his, this "prophesy" and promise of hope since my being a child in my mind.




[edit on 17-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pthena


Are you trying to instill a bunker mentality? I'm a gentile, and I'm not going any where soon. My guess is your a some what depressed and have a complex that deflects your pain on to a fictional threat. It never stops to amaze me how often the Jews are singled out as the curse of humanity. While you diden't mention them, it's apparent what you meen.