Rising Foreclosures are actually BULLISH for the economy - let me convince you in this thread

reply to post by USXpat


im sure in every recession it is hard to pull the trigger finger

think mid 70's (energy crisis) and 80's as a reference..

but its amazing my friend!

guess what happens after a recession???? PROSPERITY AND BULL MARKET BUDDY!!

And I believe the 80's was a jobless recovery as well (or so I believe I have read), SO THIS IS NOT UNPRECIDENTED - this is following a textbook, and I mean textbook market and unemployment curve, promise - i have about 100000000 hours of research into this, I would not lie to you or anyone else here

reply to post by really


YES I DO BC he thought - and im not joking that the market should move to 50,000 because of inflation

I would call that sensationalism, and if you want to know why he is rich LOOK TO JIM SOROS and HIS NEW YORK MONEY in the EARLY 70's... google it..

You brought up an excellent point, but you will have to do the research from here on Jim Rodgers


SORRY MEANT GEORGE SOROS.. MY MIND IS WARPED
[edit on 30-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 30-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

It takes about 6-8 years for a president's decisions to take affect.

George W Bush Jr. bankrupted the two companies his father gave him and ran off with the pensions of the workers.

This individual couldn't manage the two companies his rich daddy gave him as well as a entire country.

We are seeing, feeling the results of this moron's decisions at the moment.

Happy voting Republicans - you and your vote caused what is now happening.

www.buzzflash.com...
George W. Bush Resume

Past work experience:

Ran for congress and lost.

Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.

Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas, company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using tax-payer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.

With fathers help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments: Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union. Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.

Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my fathers appointments to the Supreme Court.

Accomplishments as president:

Attacked and took over two countries.

Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.

Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.

First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.

First president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history.

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in US history.

Set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips than any other president in US history.

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.

Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.

Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12 month period.

Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.

Signed more laws and executive orders circumventing the Constitution than any president in US history.

Presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

Presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.

Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (www.hyperreal.org...)

Dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

My presidency is the most secretive and un-accountable of any in US history.

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. (the 'poorest' multi-millionaire, Condoleezza Rice has an Chevron oil tanker named after her).

Had more states to simultaneously go bankrupt than any president in the history of the United States.

Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.

Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.

Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in US history.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

First president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history.

Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

Withdrew from the World Court of Law.

Refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.

First president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US elections).

All-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.

My biggest life-time campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).

Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history.

First president in US history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

First president to run and hide when the US came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

First US president to establish a secret shadow government.

Took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history).

With a policy of 'dis-engagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

Fist US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

First US president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the US than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.

Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.

Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.

Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive'.

Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capitol building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.

In the 18 months following the 911 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the US has ever been since the civil war.

Entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Records and References:

At least one conviction for drunk driving in Maine (Texas driving record has been erased and is not available).

AWOL from National Guard and Deserted the military during a time of war.

Refuse to take drug test or even answer any questions about drug use.

All records of my tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to my fathers library, sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All records of any SEC investigations into my insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

All minutes of meetings for any public corporation I served on the board are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public view.

Any records or minutes from meetings I (or my VP) attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and un-available for public review.

For personal references please speak to my daddy or uncle James Baker (They can be reached at their offices of the Carlyle Group for war-profiteering.)

Thank you Bu#es for all the misery we now have to endure because you did not have enough intellegence to research and drank the corporate kool aide.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by ofhumandescent]

reply to post by nh_ee


the tax deduction on interest on a home loan does not make up for the difference I believe ( is that what you are speaking about)?

while it makes a diff., you cannot argue with NOT HAVING TO PAY A BANK EVERY MONTH A CERTAIN AMT

This is psychological as well of course, but you seem smart enough where you dont need to be told that

reply to post by GreenBicMan
See:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyone that voted for GWB asked for this.

reply to post by nh_ee


You seem rational

Let me ask you

You pay 1200 straight in cash EVERY MONTH - no skipping of course etc.

Now you rent for 900

Where does your disposable income go?



You already know that answer - but I would argue that spending any amt. in this econ. is beneficial no matter where it goes, its still income being disposed that will be displayed on some corp.'s balance sheet

btw - TOUCHE FOR BRINGING SOMETHING NEW TO THE TABLE

[edit on 30-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

[edit on 30-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by ofhumandescent


lol i didnt my friend

i hate all parties, but that is another topic

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Nice attempt but you are keeping ONE very huge factor out of the equation. Unfortunately I'm on only a 10 minute break so I cannot read through the many posts to see if this very important point has been made.

#3: You are making a HUGE assumption here.

The assumption that the parents are being foreclosed on still have their normal income stream. Thus having extra money to spend on the things the drive an economy.

Well my friend. You are right and also VERY wrong in that assumption. For the many millions that actually have one of the hopefully two bread winners in a family lose their job they subsequently have less cash to spend because of that loss. In quite a few cases it is both bread winners losing their jobs thus causing a MASSIVE hole in their finances.

So, although your thoughts are based on a sound process under ideal circumstances, it has some pretty major flaws.

you'd want to make america homeless just to prove a point?




?

reply to post by dariousg


yes i am

i am speaking to the crowd that is squatting and has income

thats what this is all about, thats why I included my variable in my OP, thanks for the reply

reply to post by piddles


what?

i am just giving an example and stating a hypothesis brother - i do not want to bankrupt people, i am talking about the people that have made this choice already in life

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by endisnighe

 

Interesting view, but you are looking at it from the wrong frame of mind.

The market will take care of these houses, and the WEAK THAT BOUGHT A HOUSE THEY CANNOT AFFORD, will be forced to rent or purchase something cheaper. Which leads to.......-->

You will witness the MARKET EQUILIBRIUM THEORY at its finest, that I love for the stock market, get applied to housing here shortly.

So in essense, you are correct, but you are not seeing the "rest of the picture". These houses will come down to a EQUILIBRIUM PRICE that can be afforded once again.. BUY LOW SELL HIGH = works for the stock market and real estate.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by GreenBicMan]

No,no,ummm...no again.
These houses that are being foreclosed on are now a loss capital on the banks books. The problem with your theory is that these people who will "keep" spending is not all of them have the means to keep spending. You see yes there are some people who just bite off more than they could chew with ARM's and such and still hold a job that can put them into a rental property. But that doesn't cover the thousands who LOST jobs who scratch to make it and have lost or losing their homes. You seem to think all these people who just lost their homes are going to keep right on spending money they don't have and in some cases your right but that doesn't make the banks books look any better to the chair holders to be sitting on houses they can't sell in a market. And if I'm not mistaken if a bank records mortage losses on property's they didn't have the capital to cover those properties can't be used as a collateral means to use as holding capital to write loans on. I'm not in banking maybe someone can clear that up. But it is foolish to think just cause people are spending money on consumer items that that is going to turn the market around. See what alot of people don't even know is that there is another bubble about to bust one that isn't being covered in the media.

And that is the loans that were wrote with a 5-7 year progression interest rate / or a dormate rate as some call it. These are home that were purchased with a low intro of 1% that was locked in for 5-7 years. Now Most of these loans were written in like 04'-05'-06' Most in 05' I think but these are about to come out of there intro rate and mature to prime. Now the kicker is that if you have one of these loans and your credit score is good then your prime mature rate is market 4.8-5.2% but if your high risk then your mature is sub-prime rate. See these aren't a traditional ARM they are a locked in rate for 5-7 years they are loans designed for contractors and builders and the banks sold them to consumers to help fill the empty housing market. So these are going to mature in 24ish days and in another 30 we will se a second wave of crashes on banks and holding companies. Your theory is wishful but just not a plyable one in this case.

reply to post by tsloan


I understand brother

thats why I am using a variable when calculating this

I just chose .75, in reality I have no idea

But you know where I am coming from I think, correct?

I think you've found the answer to the economic recovery. What we need to do is for everyone to file bankruptcy --- preferrably on the same day. That will free-up enormous amounts of cash which we can all then spend at WalMart and McDonald's thereby creating jobs and stimulating the economy into recovery.

Who could have guessed the answer was this simple?

reply to post by jtma508


great reply, your sarcasm is well appreciated, but that is extending the means of this conversation

reply to post by jtma508


If every one filed for bankruptcy, wouldn't that make it harder for people to get future credit. Will all this money spent at WalMart and McDonalds be paid in cash?

reply to post by Amelie


Space Cash

Any of you seen Baby Fark McGeezak?

Originally posted by Amelie
reply to post by jtma508

 

If every one filed for bankruptcy, wouldn't that make it harder for people to get future credit. Will all this money spent at WalMart and McDonalds be paid in cash?

Actually, it's really not nearly as hard to bounce back from bankruptcy as it once was. Plus, I think that there was some sarcasm in that post.

reply to post by jtma508


Now you're getting the idea jtma. Problem is that with the 05? change to the bankruptcy code, individuals cannot discharge debt as they were able to in the past as all chapter 7 fillings are considered presumptively abusive, and a large amount of people are pushed into a Chapter 13 where they must make payments for i think 3 years. Corporate interests can still do it, so don't worry, our elected representatives have taken care of their sugar daddies.

This thread is better than I thought it would be. GBM's thesis about foreclosures being good for the economy by giving the consumer some money to spend is spot on. SO if you are underwater on your home and the bank won't restructure, stop paying till they force you out. Not only will you free up alot of cash flow not paying the mortgage, in many areas banks are in no hurry to foreclose, and you could concievably live free for quite a while. I've heard of people in bubble states that stopped paying and were in the home 6-12 months before being forced to move. Wanna extend that a little while longer? Right before your final day to move file for BK this stops any collections, garnishments, and foreclosures until the BK works it's way through the courts.

And when some holier than thou busybody talks about "moral responsibillity", "honoring contracts", or "moral hazard" flip em the finger and say "Hey, me not paying my mortgage and spending that money is a good thing, Greenbicman says so."

reply to post by jefwane


alright, thats makes like 3.5 people and an old sailor that agrees with me.. this is catching on