Great series debunking GW-denial pseudo-science

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Well, posting 22 videos sure makes it a pain to try to debate the content.

Let me guess, "Deniers" are wrong on every possible item that can be debated, and the "Saviors of Earth" are right every single time?

That's not true. At least three out of five "Deniers" think eating kittens is very mean, and they're actually right on that one.

Hey Heirachy,

If you think Carbon Dioxide is such a major issue why are you using electricity and not living in the woods?
AGW has been thouroughly discredited and its only zealots like yourself that yell and scream fearing the world is coming to an end due to co2.

Cap and trade was what they wanted, the co2 mythology is how they're delivering it.

But if you are so concerned why not just stop breathing? To be honest I find the notion that carbon dioxide is a pollutant totally abhorant and moronic.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
I do hope you'll answer my challenges to NoHierarchy...

I think NoHierarchy can hold his/her own - but I'll gladly indulge in this one:

WHAT would it take for you to admit that its all hype at best and agenda-driven fearmongering at worst? Please answer with concepts that aren't absolutely futile, otherwise you're basically fueling my argument.

Honestly you would have to re-write the laws of physics at this point. Because that's how deep the reality of AGW goes. The fact that carbon dioxide is a potent GHG and that increasing it's concentration, even by a little, leads to some degree of warming is an absolute mathematical fact. Literally. As in - I'm not talking about trusting someone else's ambiguous data that's been "adjusted" - I'm talking about sitting down with a pencil, a piece of paper, and a thermodynamics textbook and working it out for yourself. It might be tricky, but the point is anyone who has the knowledge and the patience can work it out for themselves, not just Al Gore's team of special climate scientists. Hell, I've already done something like this on ATS before.

So that's what I mean about a lot of this stuff not being subjective - it's completely open and transparent and there's no conspiracy behind it, it's just that a lot of people assume there is because it's so complicated looking to them.

Now - the degree of warming is more "debateable". So if you can show me legitimate scientific evidence that warming will somehow be conclusively insignificant then you might have something. But that's what I'm talking about when I say I'm still waiting for ONE.

The best "skeptic" argument anyone can really come up with is that we're not entirely sure how bad it will be. But even then: you'd be hard pressed to convince me that doing nothing is the best option in the face of such important uncertainty.

Further still, I'm really curious to hear what your idea of "fearmongering" is in the first place IgnoranceIsntBliss? Because the most published number around (that of the IPCC) foreshadows a warming in the ballpark of 3 degrees Celsius. Although this would certainly lead to serious problems, it isn't end-of-days type stuff either. So if you think all of it is nothing but public fearmongering - I can show you plenty of legitimate scientific sources, ones that are well respected in academia, but not reported in mainstream media, who project things much much worse. Many of these people take serious issue with the IPCC because they passionately feel they're completely under-reporting just how bad it's gonna be.



So...while we're on the subject of "fearmongering" - how about taking a deeper look at all the lazy, self-involved, cud-chewing sheeple around you in this world and re-evaluating whether fearmongering is even such a bad thing. You think it is because you automatically equate it with TPTB using it to herd everyone into the more taxes/less freedoms pen. And it's entirely possible, I'd say likely that's what they're gonna do. But I'm coming from the perspective that thinks they already have no freedoms anyway.

But now what if people like you and I used that fear-mongering and channeled it into something more constructive? And what if a hot-button topic like global warming gave us the platform to do that. I just addressed this in another thread so I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself to save typing:

Have you ever considered that maybe there's more to global warming than just carbon taxes? Ecological preservation, cleaner air, water, healthier food, rewarding jobs, ENERGY INDEPENDENCE, an economy that's driven by sustainability and efficiency rather than GREED - all these things are a direct result of proper action against AGW.

But to get people to support that without taxes you have to get them to care on their own. And I mean REALLY CARE, like enough to make changes in their lives that collectively implement these things, not just feel like they're contributing because they go on the internet and talk about how much they "support the environment" or whatever. So if you want them to care - you need them to understand the problem is real and urgent AND being exploited.

Now look at all the people telling you it's actually no big deal. They are simultaneously hedging their bets by denying it AND supporting a carbon tax. Do you think taking their side on either one of these things against the other is gonna accomplish anything? You think you're fighting the system but you're actually just enabling it, because you're telling everyone to stay fast asleep when you've been falsely led to believe you're waking them up.

So all I'm saying is - maybe it's time to re-think how "obvious" the whole global warming scam is. Sorry if my method is harsh but I don't know how else to wake people up who are soooo convinced they've already got it all figured out.

Remember - getting people to support action against climate change DOES NOT mean you have to get them to support whatever the government wants them to do about it. It just means using it to get them riled up in the right direction - conservation, sustainability, energy independence, organic food - the list goes on and on. Global warming is a fantastic political platform for these things too. Heck even if it was a scam - there are plenty of ways you could use that scam against them.

Originally posted by Titan Uranus
Hey Heirachy,

If you think Carbon Dioxide is such a major issue why are you using electricity and not living in the woods?
AGW has been thouroughly discredited and its only zealots like yourself that yell and scream fearing the world is coming to an end due to co2.

Cap and trade was what they wanted, the co2 mythology is how they're delivering it.

But if you are so concerned why not just stop breathing? To be honest I find the notion that carbon dioxide is a pollutant totally abhorant and moronic.

The "why don't you go live in the woods" argument is a ridiculous/childish straw-man that I've heard over and over but never actually makes sense. If living in the woods was feasible for me, I'd be doing it. Thing is... I don't have the MONEY or the KNOW-HOW to do this. I was not raised learning the skills necessary to live off the land. I was raised in a very American way, living in a relatively poor family, and when we weren't poor we were in mountains of debt. I was raised on television, fast food, consumerism, GI Joe, cartoons, cars, highways, subdivisions, stripmalls, pop/rock/rap music, Capitalism, wage-slavery, public schooling, go to college, get a career, start a family, repeat process, retire at 65, move to Florida, and wait to die. I've woken up to that reality and its utter unfulfilling failures... and EXCUSE ME if I'm a bit LOST as to how the f*ck to get out of it.

But for your information, I actually have educated myself on survival skills, sustainable living, eco-friendly/off-the-grid lifestyles, crafts/trades, and other related things as much as I realistically could. However, in the REAL world there are very few real alternatives to our lifestyle. It's one big uniform mess of globalized market and governmental slavery. Like it or not, we all need money and long-term security in this society, and figuring that out is going to take some time. So someday yes, I do wish to "live in the woods" but for now I have to bust my ass trying to lift myself out of being angry, young, and poor.

greenman3610 strikes again!




Nail, head - meet hammer.