Official story believers seen these videos?

Originally posted by Teki187
reply to post by impressme

 

Do you seriously seriously believe that only a handful of people are capable of manipulating so many public services to pull of a 2 plane strike on 2 of the most important American buildings for economics?

Just seriously contemplate that please, because it would require so many people it'd be like a leaky swimming pool.

And do you seriously believe that a few men in a cave were capable of taking over commercial jetliners with box cutters and commiting the biggest terrorist attacks on the most powerful nation? And taking into account all the other anomolies such as there were no fighter jet interceptions, the way the towers just collapsed straight into its own footprint defying basic physics, explosive compounds found in the dust etc etc.
Though I do agree with you that the question should be "why was it allowed to happen" Allowing such an attack to happen would be far easier and require much less people in the know for it to happen rather than orchestrating the whole thing from the ground up.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by SpaceMonkeys]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
In the case of 9/11, we are speaking of an unaware flight crew being assaulted and subdued by men who have trained to do that. Now, if SEAL Team 6, Delta Force and the FBI HRT can train and hone their skills to the point where they can take a jet in 15 seconds, why cannot a group of trained terrorists do the same? Are you assuming they are just dirty, ignorant Arabs, as so many on ATS do? That would be a pretty arrogant assumption on your part.

So, you are saying the "terrorists" had full riot gear/body armor, state of the art weaponry/machine guns, and funded by the US Govt? The richest country on the planet?

I mean, if we're comparing the two.....



Way to go Swampfox!

[edit on 29-11-2009 by R_Mackey]

Originally posted by SpaceMonkeys

Originally posted by Teki187
reply to post by impressme

 

Do you seriously seriously believe that only a handful of people are capable of manipulating so many public services to pull of a 2 plane strike on 2 of the most important American buildings for economics?

Just seriously contemplate that please, because it would require so many people it'd be like a leaky swimming pool.

And do you seriously believe that a few men in a cave were capable of taking over commercial jetliners with box cutters and commiting the biggest terrorist attacks on the most powerful nation? And taking into account all the other anomolies such as there were no fighter jet interceptions, the way the towers just collapsed straight into its own footprint defying basic physics, explosive compounds found in the dust etc etc.
Though I do agree with you that the question should be "why was it allowed to happen" Allowing such an attack to happen would be far easier and require much less people in the know for it to happen rather than orchestrating the whole thing from the ground up.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by SpaceMonkeys]

I do wish truthers would stop saying things like " a few men in a cave ". They are not few, they are well funded and well organized. They have orchestrated many terrorist atrocities around the world in recent years; or were they all "inside jobs" ?

In addition, these supposedly few men in caves seem to be doing pretty well holding down tens of thousands of western troops in Afghanistan while de-stabilising Pakistan at the same time.

If you are going to make a comment on the world scene try to make it real.

Btw, I don't see why towers falling down is contrary to physics. Now, If they fell up you might be on to something.

reply to post by R_Mackey

So, you are saying the "terrorists" had full riot gear/body armor, state of the art weaponry/machine guns, and funded by the US Govt? The richest country on the planet?

Wow, I really have to work on dumbing down my posts I guess, because you are the third person that has been unable to understand simple English.


No, I am not saying they had full riot gear/body armor. I am pointing out that the hijackers trained to be able to carry out their tasks. And if we have units in our country that can train to the point that they can take down an airliner in 15 seconds, then there is no reason to think that other people cannot train to do the same. I also pointed out that Delta et al, train to take out an alert, hostile enemy in under 15 seconds. The 9/11 hijackers, save for Flight 93, were going against unsuspecting flight crews...making their jobs a wee bit easier.

Originally posted by conar
So let me get this straight.

The socalled "debunkers" dont want to investigate 911 to be absolutely sure we have the right perpetraitors, even though so many signs points to that we dont know who did it.

Why do you risk your loved ones lives, by not investigating 911 thoroughly?

What if you lose one of your loved ones in the next attack?

Umm, nope you didnt get it straight. We had an investigation, a very thorough one, literally hundreds of thousands of manhours were spent by various law enforcement agencies investigating the attacks. We had the right guys. It is only the so-called "truth movement" that cannot accept the facts and continue to cling to their falsehoods...and continue to try to convince others to join them.

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
.No, I am not saying they had full riot gear/body armor. I am pointing out that the hijackers trained to be able to carry out their tasks. And if we have units in our country that can train to the point that they can take down an airliner in 15 seconds, then there is no reason to think that other people cannot train to do the same. I also pointed out that Delta et al, train to take out an alert, hostile enemy in under 15 seconds. The 9/11 hijackers, save for Flight 93, were going against unsuspecting flight crews...making their jobs a wee bit easier.

Those who train to take an airliner in 15 seconds have guns, full body armor to inhibit attack on themselves while continuing their function, and funding of the US Govt for training and equipment.

Most importantly, they also have the support and cooperation of every soul on board!

To equate the two, you must assume both have the same equipment and training for the task at the very least. To suggest otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

[edit on 29-11-2009 by R_Mackey]

reply to post by Alfie1


its true that they are well organised and funded (funded partially by the US I might add) but the actual people who supposedly pulled this off all by themselves are just a few men. As for defying physics, a steel structure cannot fall at near free fall speeds straight through its own footprint reducing it to a pile of rubble. It just could not happen.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


The investigation was a joke and many people involved have come forward and said this. Computer models were greatly inaccurate to fit in with their story, then theres the ridiculous pancake theory which when no one would accept it they came up with the bowing theory which also doesnt make any sense because the conditions such asthe temperature of the fires and duration etc would have had to be dramatically increased to be correct.

reply to post by R_Mackey

Those who train to take an airliner in 15 seconds have guns, full body armor to inhibit attack on themselves while continuing their function, and funding of the US Govt for training and equipment.

To equate the two, you must assume both have the same equipment and training for the task at the very least. To suggest otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

Wrong again, but it will be pointless to continue this line of discussion, because you are too hell-bent on believing the lies. Especially if you continue to think that only the US Government is capable of training people and that H&K MP-5s and body armor are required to take over an airliner.



[edit on 29-11-2009 by Swampfox46_1999]

reply to post by SpaceMonkeys

The investigation was a joke and many people involved have come forward and said this.

You might want to do some more research on the Commission and find the FULL context of what Commission members said. As has been pointed out in other threads, a lot of times, quotes by Commission members have been so cherry picked that their meaning was lost.

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999


OK so you dont find anything suspiscious about 9/11? The way the towers fell, WTC 7, the countless witnesses including police and firemen hearing multiple explosions. The financial aspect of 9/11, the 2.3 trillion dollars that went missing then the next day the plane that hit the pentagon just so happened to destroy the budget offices. The transfer of 2 million dollars from the pakistanis government to bin ladens account just before 9/11 which was forbidden to be investigated. The incident with Norrad which prevented them from intercepting the planes, the absolute lying of politicians saying Saddam had WMD's to justify the war then later admit there wasnt any, The conversation between Aaron Russo and Rockefeller, explosives found in the dust. And this is just the stuff I can remember off the top of my head, and I have a terrible memory. So im sorry if I dont believe the official story because theres just far far too many coincidences I can accept.
Also have you seen The Truth And Lies Behind 9/11 by Michael Ruppert? shows extremely odd activity in the stock markets just prior to 9/11 as if they knew something was going to happen.



[edit on 29-11-2009 by SpaceMonkeys]

[edit on 29-11-2009 by SpaceMonkeys]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999
As has been pointed out in other threads, a lot of times, quotes by Commission members have been so cherry picked that their meaning was lost.

How else do you interpret the following?

Originally posted by Neo-V™
“at some level of the government, at some point in time…there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened… I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described …. The [Norad air defense] tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years. This is not spin.”

- John Farmer

“We to this day don’t know why NORAD [the North American Aerospace Command] told us what they told us, it was just so far from the truth. . . ”

- Thomas Kean

Then we have this interview with Max Cleland.....

Let's start with the 9/11 commission. What are your concerns about how it's dealing with the White House?

First of all, as someone who co-sponsored legislation creating the 9/11 commission, against great opposition from the White House, this independent commission should be independent and should not be making deals with anybody. I start from there. It's been painfully obvious the administration not only fought the creation of the commission but that their objective was the war in Iraq, and one of the notions that was built on was there was a direct connection between al Qaida and 9/11 and Saddam Hussein. There was not.

So therefore they didn't want the 9/11 commission to get going. What you have is the fear from the White House that the commission would uncover pretty quickly the fact that one of four legs that the war stood on was nonexistent. So they slow-walked it, and they continue to slow-walk it. They want to kick this can down past the elections. We should not be making any deals; we should stick to our original timetable of [completing the final report by] May. However, we're coming up on Thanksgiving here and we're still struggling over access issues. It should be a national scandal.

What have some of the access problems been?

In May, the commission asked the FAA to give us the documents we're looking for. We've had to subpoena the FAA. We've now had to subpoena documents from Norad, which they have not given us. I for one think we ought to subpoena the White House for the presidential daily briefings, to know what the president knew, what the administration knew, and when they knew it so we can determine what changes ought to be made in our intelligence infrastructure, our warning system, so that we don't go through this kind of surprise attack again.

Source

I have seen most of those videos before. I have drawn no conclusion on 9/11 other than to say I do not believe the official government line on the matter. The problem you are going to encounter again and again is that most people are not logical thinkers. If they were the planet would not be overrun with unwanted children, senseless violence and other problems that plague us. Most people live unconscious lives, feeling more than thinking.

What you will run into is this deep seated need within many people to have someone care for them. Families are broken, true friends scarce, so many people look to their government to care for them. I am under no illusions concerning our government. It is just as susceptiable to corruption as any other country has been in history. To make that realization is just too diffcult for many people who have their identities wrapped up in the system. God him/herself could tell them the truth concerning their lives and they would contest the divine. It reminds me of dealing with an Anorexic who had dropped down to 80 pounds (at 5'7) and still fought tooth and nail with her doctors proclaiming she was fat. She invested so much time, so much energy into this belief she was fat. She couldn't just let that go. Then you are also running into a common ego trip-some people just don't want to be wrong. We will never get any answers until people let go of their paternalistic needs, ego trips and self-deceptions.

Originally posted by johnny2127
These videos are nothing new. They are just propaganda hit pieces trying to go after Bush and Cheney. In reality, both the Bush and Clinton Administrations dropped the ball when it came to Al Qaeda.

Including Clinton during his administrations

Also, my father and 3 brothers are all pilots for major airlines and they all say that the video of the pilots talking about flying into the WTC is a bunch of crap. Each made the same point that an pilot with multi-engine time could have flown the planes in the WTC

Even Microsoft flight Simulator allowed a person to fly into the WTC towers. It wasn't that difficult to do. (new versions do not allow players to fly into any buildings)

As far back as Bush Sr. we as a nation were beginning to see major transfers of power and were beginning to inform Democrats of secret technology information at internal levels within our intelligence gathering agencies that had been kept from the Democrats for at least 12 years of Republican rule.

What few know is that in Clintons first term his administration showed us what the Democrats where up to as it related to the military personnel in the know and where they were going with it as far back as Clintons first term.

I mention this because at the time of Clintons first term I was on active duty as a senior commissioned officer in the US Army.

One day in 1992 about a year before my T/S clearance was due to expire I received a packet from Dept. of Defense instructing me to review and update certain security related data and personal information. What few knew at the time is that on the back side of the security clearance document was paragraph in very small writing that stated that under a new provision within the NSC act etc. etc. regarding security clearances that by signing and submitting the completed form that I was agreeing to a clause that stated that the federal government could incarcerate me without any legal representaion and for any amount of time deemed necessary, it stated further that they could detain me in secret and or even terminate me at the discretion of the federal government to protect national security issues and classified projects.

I thought about this new rule to renewing clearances for a long while and realized that I was being asked to give my permission to the government to kill me if the government felt it would protect national security classified information. Somehow this small change made me realize we as a nation were heading into dark times. Little did I know just how true that thought would turn out to be.

Needless to say, I made a few calls around Washington and the Pentagon and found quickly that my ability to read the fine print prevented me and others like me from giving permission for anyone to kill me at the convienance of the federal government. It would be a slippery slope that I would not survive but I would never give anyone permission to kill me for the benefit of the nation. That ruling just does not pass logic because it serves to hide the truth.

Much like the Pharoahs of Egypt our government was willing to bury anyone and everyone that knew too much about past projects that might be embarassing to the federal government and or the executive branch.

Anyway to make a long story shorter, I refused to sign the forms on the basis that I would not die for the conviencance of the federal government no matter what excuse they came up with.

My refusal to sign this new security clearance form loudly and clearly signalled my resistence to this draconian rule and to the federal governments desire to have more power to deal with national security personnel.

I have no doubt I was was prevented from being promoted because of this issue which was no surprise to me and after a while I was eventually released from active duity during the big purge of the military right after the Berlin wall came down.

Needless to say Bush jr. passed some executive orders that classifed previously unclassified information soley for the purpose of preventing anyone from discovering historical facts that would prove embarassing to both Democrats and Republicans.

Corruption and greed have ruined this nation but without our ability to discover through historical data what really went on is nothing more than an effective means to silence and bury the truth of many embarassing secret events in our history. We deserve better.

reply to post by R_Mackey


I am puzzled, but not surprised, by the following assertion:

Those who train to take an airliner in 15 seconds have guns, full body armor to inhibit attack on themselves while continuing their function, and funding of the US Govt for training and equipment.

Most importantly, they also have the support and cooperation of every soul on board!

'R_Mackey', please expalin to the audience exactly what you intended with these statements.

Because, from my perspective, they are simply irrelevant rants that are designed to distract and delfect from topic.

Allow me to explain, and de-construct your false assertions:

Part one: "Those who train to take an airliner in 15 seconds have guns"... (your exact words)... This is incorrect, and a distraction and outright falsehood. Very poor attempt, if I may say so.

Continuing: "...full body armor." Again, not true. Why lie about events that are well-documented??? Just trying to cloud the issues?? Poor, poor form, mate. Act of desperation, perhaps? I won't be the 'judge' on that, of course.

This next bit really confuses me....

Most importantly, they also have the support and cooperation of every soul on board!

Huh??? What do you mean by that sentence? It is getting more and more difficult to follow your "logic" in these various scenarios....

First, there was "no plane" that hit the Pentagon. It was a "missiile" and there was an "overflight"...but, it gets more confusing...when the WTC uis discussed. 'NO planes"???? Not even a reasonable alternative is offered, just hand-waving nonsense about 'the impossiblities' with less-than-accurate explanations. Meant to fool 'some of the people some of the time'...but not "all of the people all of the time", because the flaws keep showing up.

Oh, and before the host jumps on the term 'flaws'....the few that hope to 'zero in' on what they perceive as 'flaws' in the 'Official Story' (whatever that is), they are simply repeating more, and flawed, innuendo and assumptions put forth on the multitude of less-informed websites that exist. It is sad, and a little tragic, that such ignorance can continue to fester.

There is no hope, for Humanity, as long as this kind of igorance prevails --- it was prevalent during Galileo's and Copernicus' time, and it persists even today.

Folks....the Earth is NOT the center of the Universe. Physics happen.

Airplanes are quite easy to fly...to manipulate the controls, is the term. ANYONE can easily 'steer' and aim, in flight. Just ain't that hard. A twelve-year-old can do it, with minimal instruction. The details, in aviation, belong in the fine and demading areas of approaches, landings, decision making and such...NOT in the area of suicidal homicidal religious fundamentalist maniacs. Because, where 'fundies' are concerned, they will stop at nothing to achieve their goals.

For any of you that haven't heard Jesse Ventura talk about this, here are a couple clips. Browse youtube for more of his views on different things like the secret government (being a former governor, Navy seal and demolition expert), he believes this was a demo job as well. This guy could run for president and I think he'd win. Here's some 9/11 stuff when he was on Howard Stern.

reply to post by Kratos1220
He is a possible candidate for the 2012 election

reply to post by Alfie1

Do you seriously seriously believe that only a handful of people are capable of manipulating so many public services to pull of a 2 plane strike on 2 of the most important American buildings for economics?

YES! Are you implying that our government and military with our technology are to stupid to pull off a false flag?

Originally posted by impressme
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Do you seriously seriously believe that only a handful of people are capable of manipulating so many public services to pull of a 2 plane strike on 2 of the most important American buildings for economics?

YES! Are you implying that our government and military with our technology are to stupid to pull off a false flag?

Well it only took 19 to pull the greatest terrorist act on US Soil. It took only 1 man to destroy the Murrah building in Oklahoma.

No one is stating that are military is too stupid to pull of anything. What we are saying is the need for "false" flags of any sort, is so 1960's