Zeitgeist Movement = most hardcore NWO propaganda ever.

David Bentley Hart wrote not too long ago that "postmodernism is the triumph of rhetoric over dialectic;" the ZM is precisely typical of the postmodern way-of-thinking.

What is important, in a culture primed by the messy (but exciting!) philosophy of G. E. Moore's Prinicipia Ethica is the emotive content of any given argument. Consider, ZM is for:

-only good things ever.

-the best things human beings are capable of doing.

...and ZM is against:

-all the bad things that happen to people.

-the worst things human beings are capable of doing.

When queried about the nature of their strategy, ZM supporters seem to think that:

-a totally equitable and scientific scheme to distribute the resources of the planet

-and super high-tech robots

...will solve the twin evils of "all the bad things that happen to people" and "the worst things humans are capable of."

When other forum members asked for more information about how it is ZM plans to implement these strategies when faced with the difficult arising from people who feel they have some claim over ownership over themselves and the work of their hands, or difficulties arising from a distrust of the feasibility or desirability of high-tech robots being the primary vehicle of world change, a common trope emerges (in various tones and shades, to be sure):

"Well, since you disagree with our remarkably narrow and specific, thoroughly high Modernist (and therefore, in serious academic circles, thoroughly suspect from every angle) program for world peace, you must hate peace. You must believe that technology has never done anything helpful for people. You must be too caught up in the old way of thinking where having a remarkably narrow, heavy-handed, simplistic way of saving the world is somehow naive and willfully ignorant, and therefore are yourself both naive and willfully ignorant!"

I have no dog in the fight. Zeitgeist is about as relevant to serious thinkers as the recent block-buster hit Hot-Tub Time Machine. Zeitgeist contains at the most basic level the sort of hide-bound conservative positivism that hasn't been en vogue since the fifties, much like the technocrats during that decade who so valiantly fought for better living through science.

You know what we received for all that effort? A psychotropized media-addicted society caught up in a techno-disassociative state of their own making, flocking to whichever sunny-dappled miracle world of tomorrow offered with the twin assurances: you won't have to work, and you won't have to care. Whether or not this was by design is beyond my depth; that it happened is beyond question.

You cannot reason a person out of a position he didn't reason himself into. That's why I haven't addressed the ZM in anything other than as an example of what is wrong with discourse in Western society. On the face of it, Zeitgeist fails to be anything other than yet another incarnation of nineteenth-century high-modern positivist thinking. Not only is it not new; the idea on which it is built (see Johann Herder) is older than this country.

But, thank you, ZM, for providing exactly a case study of high/postmodern groupthink emotivism. I'll change my tune when you stop being a cult and start, I don't know, reading instead of watching internet movies about why you should be in a cult?

[edit on 16-4-2010 by Professor Tomorrow]

Yep, the latest charge is that ZM is a cult. It was already floating around on YouTube. Yeah, wanting a better world is so cult-like. Boo-hoo "professor."

reply to post by TerraX


Isn't it interesting how you make my point even as you try and personally attack me? It's almost as if my line of reasoning leaves you completely without recourse, on account of my being right and your being wrong.

And, by the way, "wrong" is not a pejorative; it's a state of being. Again, saying someone is wrong about something is not a personal attack. It's my assessment of your argument. I gave my evidence above; I find it frankly demonstrable of my entire thesis that your post chose to ignore all the thought in it and go straight for where it was most emotively-charged.

Once again, thank you ZM cult, for being so obvious! It makes the job of serious thinkers so much easier!

Isn't it interesting how you make my point even as you try and personally attack me? It's almost as if my line of reasoning leaves you completely without recourse, on account of my being right and your being wrong.

I didn't really personally attack you, I did laugh at your reasoning, if you want to consider that an attack then so be it. Lets get to your reasoning. Some guy in the past said something about postmodernism, you take that as a reference and you warp it into a kind of denial of human nature that the ZG people display (in your eyes) and therefore they are a cult. The latter of course being an insult, whether you realize it or not. Can I count that as an attack?
And above you're seemingly totally oblivious of the insult you made, next you're padding yourself on the back and washing your hands in innocence. No Professor, you weren't right. Calling a group of people who want a better world a cult is sewer journalism. Trying to hide that low remark with some references to a few philosophers won't hide the fact that you aren't one yourself.

The Venus Project is a work in progress. When Jacque Fresco talks about a world without hunger, poverty and crime, he's talking about a scenario way in the future. Possibly one or two generations after TVP might come into reality. He also clearly stated that any transition would be very hard. Myself and other ZM members (I reckon) don't have any illusions that human behavior will change over night. There will still be selfish people acting out their neurosis. I am convinced that if all the resources in the world would be available to all the people, crime rates would drop 95% or higher.

So no, professor. "All the bad things that happen to people" would still go on, even in a society TVP suggests, albeit in much lesser numbers. Generalizing that ZG members are oblivious to this matter and are therefore inherently wrong, is false reasoning.

Once again, thank you ZM cult, for being so obvious! It makes the job of serious thinkers so much easier!

Thank you Professor for showing your true colors. Twice now you made the unfounded claim that the ZM is a cult, implying that its members don't think things true. You've shown your prejudice and reasoning.

Hmm, 'cult'...

en.wikipedia.org...

Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be, reasonably or unreasonably, considered strange. ...

...Later formulations built on these characteristics while placing an additional emphasis on cults as deviant religious groups "deriving their inspiration from outside of the predominant religious culture".[7] This deviation is often thought to lead to a high degree of tension between the group and the more mainstream culture surrounding it, a characteristic shared with religious sects.[8] Yet sociologists maintain that unlike sects, which are products of religious schism and therefore maintain a continuity with traditional beliefs and practices, "cults" arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices.

Well, so far it is wrapped around religious motifs so far...

Oh here we are, "political" cultism...

Since 1949 the Peoples Republic of China has been classifying dissenting groups as xiejiao, normally translated into English as "evil cults".

An important aspect of the classical 'cult' concept is 'coercive persuasion', although that phrase is a bit an oxymoron, as in my studies you have either persuasion or coersion, as coersion might even attempt to masquerade as persuasion but with coersion there isn't an actual option regardless of how the discourse is presented at any stage. Currently, ZP is all persuasion, but when it comes time to implement it it will become coersive at all levels, because it simply cannot work without total global compliance.

Back to Wikipedia, 5 key stages of the mind control model are typiically emplyed by cults:

1.People are put in physically or emotionally distressing situations;
2.Their problems are reduced to one simple explanation, which is repeatedly emphasized;
3.They receive unconditional love, acceptance, and attention from a charismatic leader;
4.They get a new identity based on the group;
5.They are subject to entrapment (isolation from friends, relatives, and the mainstream culture) and their access to information is severely controlled.

1 = The Zeitgeist films.
2 = ZP's Pure Communism 'solution'.
3 = PJ & JF are charismatic leaders offering total bliss nirvana global village unconditional love and acceptance.
4 = really.
5 = This would be more in line with when its time to implement ZP.

These perspectives share the assumption that some form of coercive persuasion or mind control is used to recruit and maintain members by suppressing their ability to reason, think critically, and make choices in their own best interest.

JF brags about being a social engineer. They openly embrace the idea of global scale re-education camps. PJ released his films incrementally to hook in followers with part 1, to then later on reveal the true Pure Communism agenda in part 2. They rabidly deny that ZP is "Pure Communism to keep their followers from understanding well enough about it so that they might at least admit to themselves that its PC, and they act like all their great futurist ideas are their own while not crediting where the ideas came from, such as the Technocrat Movement, so that people can research the pitfalls of these sorts of ideas.

The 3 models of 'Joining':
1. People are said to join cults primarily because of how they view a particular group. This view is most favored among sociologists and religious scholars.
2. Under the "psychodynamic model," popular with some mental health professionals, individuals choose to join for fulfillment of subconscious psychological needs.
3. Finally, the "thought reform model" posits that people join not because of their own psychological needs, but because of the group's influence through forms of psychological manipulation.

It's also further noted that 'typical reasons why people join cults include a search for community and a spiritual quest.'

I'd say we have all of the above under ZP.

Some "anti-cult" definitions:

Secular cult opponents like those belonging to the anti-cult movement tend to define a "cult" as a group that tends to manipulate, exploit, and control its members. Specific factors in cult behavior are said to include manipulative and authoritarian mind control over members, communal and totalistic organization, aggressive proselytizing, systematic programs of indoctrination, and perpetuation in middle-class communities.

"Cults are groups that often exploit members psychologically and/or financially, typically by making members comply with leadership's demands through certain types of psychological manipulation, popularly called mind control, and through the inculcation of deep-seated anxious dependency on the group and its leaders."

A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community.

On another Wikipedia page:

Cults, like sects, often integrate elements of existing religious theologies, but cults tend to create more esoteric theologies synthesized from many sources. Cults tend to emphasize the individual and individual peace.

Then there are 'dictionary' definitions:

n.
1.
a.A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b.The followers of such a religion or sect.
2.A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3.The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4.A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
5.
a.Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b.The object of such devotion.
6.An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest. www.answers.com...

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia:

Collective veneration or worship. In the West, the term has come to be used for groups that are perceived to have deviated from normative religions in belief and practice. They typically have a charismatic leader and attract followers who are in some way disenfranchised from the mainstream of society. Cults as thus defined are often viewed as foreign or dangerous.

So by now some of you might be saying that it isn't religion, but thats part of the issue, as in Z part 1 PJ went all out using occult esotericist arguments to 'debunk' religion (Christianity in particular).

Then in Z part 2 he sweeps in with the Science solution. He's offering 'heaven', the 'promised land' of abundance and laziness. The 'god', the global AI computer network that serves our every whim. The FAITH, is in science in genereal and in science that doesnt even exist in particular.


[edit on 19-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Are there any financial links from the Zeitgeist movement to the NWO.

If not, I am going to have to disagree with you. Sure, they may ALSO be advocating a type of world government, but it is flawed to assume this means they are actually advocating the same thing the NWO is, or that they are even friends of the NWO.

The NWO probably do not want "skynet" running their #, they want to run # themselves, they are already incredibly rich anyway.

Originally posted by sremmos
Are there any financial links from the Zeitgeist movement to the NWO.

If not, I am going to have to disagree with you.

That's flawed logic. There are perhaps millions of political blogs out there that cater to either Democrats or Republicans. If they tow the party line, and persuasively promote the agendas of the party, they are engaging in propaganda for said agendas. They dont need to be funded by the RNC to be 'part' of it. And odds are its plain and obvious that they are ideologically affiliated with which ever side. The cleary liberal side wont deny supporting Obama, while ZP screamingly denies being "utopian" or 'Pure Communist', when thats what it is. So ZP is even more deceptive than 2 Party sources.

And they vvery well could get funding from the 'nwo'. I dont have access to records or supena power. But I can say that they've been covered by Huffington Post, Larry King, the New York Times, Fox News and other with overall positive coverage.

Sure, they may ALSO be advocating a type of world government, but it is flawed to assume this means they are actually advocating the same thing the NWO is, or that they are even friends of the NWO.

Read the thread, please. I've hammered away the different aspects and angles of how its virtually identical to the system I've been warning people about for many years, before Zeitgeist even.

The NWO probably do not want "skynet" running their #, they want to run # themselves, they are already incredibly rich anyway.

That would seem logical, as they ARE control freaks, but their goal is to become 'gods', in as many ways possible including cognitively and with indefinite lifespans. They have faith in science that they'll be able to reverse the aging process. They think they'll be able to live for hundreds if not thousands of years. But the science isn't quite ready. It needs to be kickstarted, and AGI ('skynet') is the key. Do you think people like David Rockefellar would stop at nothing to live forever?

reply to post by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Yeah, so now the ZM and TVP are a cult? You know what this whole thread amounts up to? A smear campaign. A typical example of American culture. You act like a lawyer in court and it's not so much about objectivity or finding the truth, it's about making the other guy or party look bad because they don't suit your own particular interests. (Flip on Fox News or visit Infowars.com - fine examples there.)

Goldman Sachs has been in the news lately. Turns out they have been incredible con-artists. The Obama administration wants more regulations for the financial industry, and what do the Republicans do? They already stated that they want no such action and will oppose it! Time and time again Wall Street has been proven to be corrupt to the core and now one of the major political parties in the U.S. plainly states that they wont act against it. How much of a cult member do you have to be to vote for the Republican party? Water-boarding is fine according to Cheney, and lets not forget those nasty (non-existent) WMD's in Iraq which didn't seem to bother a lot of people in re-electing Bush.

Now ZG and TVP are a cult? Take a look around you in the world. Many people receive programming without even being aware of it. They just act in a lethargic way.

You know what governs the world? Self interest! Zeitgeist and the Venus Project get a lot of critique from the conservative (isolationist) right. Often these people are concerned with their freedom, their own property and basically want little to no government interference. Naturally these people vote conservatively, it's in their self interest. What does conservative politics do? It gives business a free reign. And that breeds a (financial) elite of its own. The very same elite conservative people despise at times and sometimes call NWO. Isn't that cult-like?

You know what the difference is between a conservative blue-collar worker and a conservative billionaire? Basically nothing, except the billionaire has money, power and influence. Both have their self interest at heart, likewise the billionaire will try keep and expand his money and property. That's his self interest. What does this line of thinking produce? A society you have in the U.S. right now. You created it.
Doesn't that in some strange way make you a member of the NWO?

Does mentioning this make me a communist or a member of a cult? I think such an accusation would be very unintelligent. Ask ZG members if they want a society like Soviet Russia or current day China. Everyone would say no because they have the same sense of liberty as you do. Those ZG members want freedom, not another oppressive social system.

I think that in the (near) future the Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project will have an effect like psychotherapy for the planet because at its core it has all the right elements yet it apparently conflicts with what most people hold dear: their own self interest. And that's a paradox in itself because TVP stands for the interest of all people and getting the highest standard of living for everyone. You can ask yourself what stands in the way of TVP. Your own ego?



[edit on 20-4-2010 by TerraX]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
That's flawed logic. There are perhaps millions of political blogs out there that cater to either Democrats or Republicans. If they tow the party line, and persuasively promote the agendas of the party, they are engaging in propaganda for said agendas. They dont need to be funded by the RNC to be 'part' of it. And odds are its plain and obvious that they are ideologically affiliated with which ever side. The cleary liberal side wont deny supporting Obama, while ZP screamingly denies being "utopian" or 'Pure Communist', when thats what it is. So ZP is even more deceptive than 2 Party sources.

It depends on what your definition of a 'pure communist' is. Do you understand? If you say it's like that, then where do you come from? If you take the angle of sharing resources and say "that's communism", then where do you come from? From the 'not sharing' angle and economic fascism? It's quite easy to put negative labels on matters and it can bite you back in the butt.
For me Zeitgeist and The Venus Project is (Trans)Humanism;
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
Simple, isn't it.

[edit on 20-4-2010 by TerraX]

Originally posted by TerraX
Yeah, so now the ZM and TVP are a cult? You know what this whole thread amounts up to? A smear campaign.

Well I did manage to outline all the key facets of 'cults', and too many levels did have parallels. I dont see any actual counter-arguments.

Goldman Sachs has been in the news lately. Turns out they have been incredible con-artists.

What does this have to do with ZP being cultish?

The Obama administration wants more regulations for the financial industry, and what do the Republicans do? They already stated that they want no such action and will oppose it!

Obama works for GS, the Federal Reserve, and Wall Street in general.

How much of a cult member do you have to be to vote for the Republican party?

This would actually be a matter of a measure of cuiltish tendencies. The answer is: "Just as cultish as you'd have to be to worship the Democrat party the same way Republicans do theirs."

I'm getting the feeling now that you're a democrat Obama supporter...

Water-boarding is fine according to Cheney, and lets not forget those nasty (non-existent) WMD's in Iraq which didn't seem to bother a lot of people in re-electing Bush.

What does any of this have to do with this thread or even me for that matter???

You know what governs the world? Self interest! Zeitgeist and the Venus Project...

Its in ZP's self-interest to be at the helm of global power!

Often these people are concerned with their freedom, their own property and basically want little to no government interference.

As is any sane person! Although as slice of Fresco's 22 pristine acres does sound nice.

Naturally these people vote conservatively, it's in their self interest. What does conservative politics do? It gives business a free reign. And that breeds a (financial) elite of its own.

Duped cultish types. Democrats play lipservice to being against multinational corporations but they're no different. DO an extensive thrust of research into "Neoliberalism".

The very same elite conservative people despise at times and sometimes call NWO. Isn't that cult-like?

The elite NWO globaists control both parties.

You know what the difference is between a conservative blue-collar worker and a conservative billionaire? Basically nothing, except the billionaire has money, power and influence.

Since you want to resort to these games, behold:
Conservatives more likely to donate to the poor.

Does mentioning this make me a communist or a member of a cult? I think such an accusation would be very unintelligent. Ask ZG members if they want a society like Soviet Russia or current day China.

Of course they dont, but when you try to put *PURE COMMUNISM* into action thats what history has proven you always end up with.

Everyone would say no because they have the same sense of liberty as you do. Those ZG members want freedom, not another oppressive social system.

Then they need to turn towards libertarianism!

I think that in the (near) future the Zeitgeist Movement and The Venus Project will have an effect like psychotherapy for the planet because...

...they're social engineers who seek to use psychology and sociology to re-educate the populace.



[edit on 24-4-2010 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Well I did manage to outline all the key facets of 'cults', and too many levels did have parallels. I dont see any actual counter-arguments.

You managed to "outline the key facets of cults" alright, now go figure to how many aspects of society that applies. (Politics, religion, business, etc.) That was one of my points in my previous post. You didn't prove ZG or TVP is a cult, you were just trying to label it as a cult. Do Zeitgeist members have a picture of Jacque Fresco or Peter Joseph hanging over their beds? No of course not. The whole point of ZG and TVP is education and getting wisdom along with personal freedom.

Obama works for GS, the Federal Reserve, and Wall Street in general.

No argument there.

This would actually be a matter of a measure of cuiltish tendencies. The answer is: "Just as cultish as you'd have to be to worship the Democrat party the same way Republicans do theirs."

Thank you. That was my whole point. Both D and R basically follow the same program. Does ZG or TVP follow that program? Then they are not part of the NWO, right?

I'm getting the feeling now that you're a democrat Obama supporter...

Nope, although not an unfair assessment. Normally I would be more of a D then a R. But, as is clear by now, both parties support the powers that be, albeit in different ways.

What does any of this have to do with this thread or even me for that matter???

It shows just how brainwashed people are and how they are unable to think objectively.

Its in ZP's self-interest to be at the helm of global power!

LOL, another conspiracy theory. Um, all the people are at the helm of global power? Oh wait, that is communism. Bad! That's the peculiarity of you libertarians. You never seem to be satisfied who actually calls the shots. You want a type of authority that doesn't interfere in your personal endeavors, yet when that messes up up other peoples lives you're completely indifferent.

As is any sane person! Although as slice of Fresco's 22 pristine acres does sound nice.

Then they need to turn towards libertarianism!

en.wikipedia.org...

You know what the downfall is of libertarianism? Basically you're downright selfish and only looking out for number 1, and you still believe in the free market system like that is going to give freedom, liberty, wealth and high standard of living for everyone on the planet. It doesn't. What you see today in the world IS the free market system, with all its liberties. Libertarianism in fact breeds Gordon Gekko wanna-bees.

You know what Zeitgeist and the Venus Project is?
Libertarianism without money.

Understand what the basic principles are about, ease down on the conspiracy theories.

If the CNN report on UFO's wasn't enough to encourage any movement a little further, then maybe the plan to abolish freedom to start your own militia will. I think the one world government deal would work, but in the sense of a republic, similar to Star Wars or The Matrix, the way Zion is governed in the film is a great example. There needs to be a base of control, a leader, an innocent soul, but at the same time, making sure that each individual walking on earth has absolute freedom. We should have a birth control system as well... I know how this might sound contradicting to absolute freedom, but keep in mind Common Sense. One of the problems that we will be faced with in the future, is over population. We need to incorporate a system based on common sense, rather than right or left politics. What makes the most sense, what has spiritual and FACTUAL grounds of science. We need to put all theories as far as technology into progress, working with electricity, and magnets as a way to move mankind forward and evolve our brains a little further. These days video games consist of Military style agendas and self teaching tutorials on how to infiltrate and kill an enemy. If this does not sound like a preplanned way to teach civilians how to engage in combat then call it a coincidence for future events. The uprising of Mix Martial Arts as a sport in America? Maybe all prophecy's, however you can always lateral think your way through and connect the dots with half of the extraordinary articles, theories, and interesting cover ups, from both governments and corporations that this site consists of. It is within our selves as human beings living in America to pay little attention to any signs of disbelieve. We are trained as children to follow a pattern in life that will forever enslave us till our physical death. There is proof out there of secret organizations, agencies, and top secret government classified material that will not be shared with its own countries citizens. The reason trust is such a broken feeling is due to the source of where it all leads back to, our very own Government. If the folks we are suppose to trust with our every day activities, hide classified information, and stamp closure to our self made evolutionary creations, then this has been an overly held back departure from the beginning of a citizen and government civil conflict. Perhaps its the start of yet another civil war, perhaps then and only then, will we really know if our own military will shoot its own brothers and sisters. The rights to bare-arms for self defense are virtually non existent. We are being stripped of our rights to carry real self defense mechanisms, while the folks that rob us from taxes are armed to the teeth. While the very folks that are there to help us, follow a quota system of misery and distrust. Did you know that Miami was basically founded on the Drug War? Watch a film called Cocaine Cowboys and it will teach you a thing or two about the effects the Drug War has on building communities. There are many evils that run within our every day lives... people are not being taught truths, and our leaders our MAKING UP history for future generations to come. Children believe that dynasties and aristocratic families are all vanished and done with. What people fail to understand is that people do not change, and people do not change for a reason. Everything around us was made by someone Else's imagination. In the majority of life, you will be surrounded by things you created yourself, in your own cell, in your own space, in your own reality. The truth of the matter is that, We The People got lost, distracted along the way from loving our neighbors, sharing interest in culture, taking part in making sure Sundays was purely for City Hall meetings to ensure a city was happy with its laws. Our 9 to 5's, our graveyard shifts, they are there to distract you from absoluteness here on earth. Together we can cleanse ourselves from Devolution. Love.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
So by now some of you might be saying that it isn't religion, but thats part of the issue, as in Z part 1 PJ went all out using occult esotericist arguments to 'debunk' religion (Christianity in particular).

Then in Z part 2 he sweeps in with the Science solution. He's offering 'heaven', the 'promised land' of abundance and laziness. The 'god', the global AI computer network that serves our every whim. The FAITH, is in science in genereal and in science that doesnt even exist in particular.

PJ has never said or implied 'heaven' or 'promised land'.

Abundance for our needs does not mean wasteful excess. The latter more closely describes our current societies where very little thought is put into intelligently managing our resources to ensure we use them sustainably so they will be available for future generations.

Why do you give AI computers the title of "God"? PJ, TZM, and TVP do not.

When did PJ, TZM, and TVP claim we will have/need an AI computer network?

Please define what AI means to you. There are various interpretations, ranging from common software that can make decisions based on inputs to machines that are aware of their own existence and feel a need to preserve that existence.

We need the above former, simpler kind of AI. We already have it in most computer programs.

No one has said we need the above latter type, have they?

Don't you have faith in modern science? More to the point, TVP promotes the use of "the scientific method" for decision making. Don't you agree that is a good approach for decision making?

We have many advanced technologies that are not in common use, mostly because of their high-costs to develop or mass-produce. In today's world, if there is not enough profit to be made producing a product, then there is little incentive to produce it. If cost wasn't a factor and we are only limited by the sustainable use of resources, I don't think we can even imagine the technologies that would be available, or the exponential rate of advancement of those technologies.


[edit on 12-7-2010 by bkyle]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Peter Joseph's “Zeitgeist Movement” and cosponsor “Venus Project” are a hardcore front in the New World Order / Neo-Communist / Neo-Eugenicist-Transhumanist agenda.
thezeitgeistmovement.com...
www.thevenusproject.com...
ZM Manifesto

They call for:

1. Global Government.

We are one planet. Effectively, our planet is one living organism. It needs to be managed as such. How can a planet be effectively managed by hundreds of independent governments?

Further, how selfish is it to claim that land and resources are the property of the persons who happen to be born there or are allowed to become citizens there? Did we win some kind of lottery at birth when we were born in America? Those people born into today's poverty stricken countries like India, Africa, and South America just weren't lucky? We're all born into the same one planet. The planet's resources should be the common heritage of everyone, including future generations. This cannot happen with each government fighting for what they deem should be theirs and not anyone else's.

"A new consciousness is developing which sees the earth as a single organism and recognizes that an organism at war with itself is doomed. We are one planet." -Carl Sagan.

2. AI Automatons replacing humans as workers.

This is going to happen anyway. It's already happened in many industries. Corporations are always looking to lower costs and increase profits. Humans are slow, error-prone, costly, and require high-maintenance.

There is no stopping automation. We can choose to embrace it to focus on eliminating tedious jobs, dangerous jobs, and jobs which should require intelligent decision making based on as much data as possible, or we can just whine about our disappearing jobs as the number of unemployed and homeless people continues to grow.

Please define what AI means to you. There are various interpretations, ranging from common software that can make decisions based on inputs to machines that are aware of their own existence and feel a need to preserve that existence.

We need the above former, simpler kind of AI. We already have it in most computer programs.

No one has said we need the above latter type, have they?

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
3. AGI (‘Skynet’) Supercomuters controlling most aspects of politics and society, including rationing global resources to global citizens. If they actually thought this out they'd know that soon enough machines will need more resources than humans.

From your AGI link above: "Strong AI is also referred to as "artificial general intelligence" or as the ability to perform "general intelligent action". Science fiction associates strong AI with such human traits as consciousness, sentience, sapience and self-awareness."

Where does TVP claim computers with AGI are required or desired? Simply managing and making efficient use of resources does not take AGI.
Please help me think this through. Why will machines need more resources than humans?

By 'Skynet', you're referring to The Terminator movie, no? Are you implying TVP wants or needs such a system? Remember, that 'Skynet' computer system in the movie wasn't the result of a RBE. It was the result of the current path humanity is on. But, of course, it is just a movie.

4. A Utopian Agenda that “Peter” claims isn’t Utopian, yet the ‘research institute’ even describes itself as being Utopian / Futurist. History proves that all forced utopias become dystopias.

Both PJ and Fresco have said TVP is not utopian. Utopia is not possible. TVP embraces change because life, the Earth, and our understanding is always changing. Utopia is a fictional perfect place. Logically, such a place cannot exist.

Can you provide a source for where this 'research institute' calls itself utopian? Is this a TVP research institute?

5. Selfish Transhumanist agenda.

This statement is meaningless without more details. What part of TVP is selfish? What "Transhumanist agenda"? Please provide details.

6. Cashless (non-backed by Gold/etc) economic system. A ‘Resource Economy’ has been tried before… in the Soviet Union.

Do you seriously believe this statement? At what point did the USSR have a cashless society? They always had money and banks. The necessities of life were never given freely. Everything was rationed. None of this is like a RBE. RBE has never been tried before. This is obviously true because a RBE is a global system.

7. Population Control. To meet these targets as policy sounds like a slippery slope to me.

Please make it clear what you mean by "control". Are you implying in the world of TVP, people will not be allowed to have babies, or are you implying that some people will be executed because of over-population fears? Without details, you're not saying anything here. You're just implying threats.

8. The global government run by a global 'god-on-earth' AGI computer network to replace all world religions.

Didn't we cover global government and AGI already above? If your point is about the disappearance of religion, aren't we already seeing this in today's world? Attendance at churches only drops, and churches closing is a common sight.

If people made decisions using the scientific method, then decisions would not be made based on religious beliefs. Logically, science always trumps ideology, so this must be a good thing.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Peter Joseph's “Zeitgeist Movement” and cosponsor “Venus Project” are a hardcore front in the New World Order / Neo-Communist / Neo-Eugenicist-Transhumanist agenda.
thezeitgeistmovement.com...
www.thevenusproject.com...
ZM Manifesto

They call for:

1. Global Government.

2. AI Automatons replacing humans as workers.

3. AGI (‘Skynet’) Supercomuters controlling most aspects of politics and society, including rationing global resources to global citizens. If they actually thought this out they'd know that soon enough machines will need more resources than humans.

4. A Utopian Agenda that “Peter” claims isn’t Utopian, yet the ‘research institute’ even describes itself as being Utopian / Futurist. History proves that all forced utopias become dystopias.

5. Selfish Transhumanist agenda.

6. Cashless (non-backed by Gold/etc) economic system. A ‘Resource Economy’ has been tried before… in the Soviet Union.

7. Population Control. To meet these targets as policy sounds like a slippery slope to me.

8. The global government run by a global 'god-on-earth' AGI computer network to replace all world religions.

I found this message someone posted with detailed responses to each of the numbered points above:

anewworldsociety.ning.com...

The author of this message does a very good job refuting the above claims. Well worth the time to read.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
reply to post by dalan.

 

Your own words give this defense the lie.

I'm sorry, but you've tipped your hand.

It's not uncommon for sensitive types, who feel injured by 'the system' in some manner, to inwardly desire its destruction.

And it's not uncommon for that desire to manifest in a way that gets people hurt.

Simple truth.

Ramming your words into someone else's mouth does not qualify as an argument.

And save the psycho-analysis for your patients.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss





Then Peter Joseph makes Addendum, lays out how the "Fed" ruined everything via corrupt crony capialism to the Nth power, so now we need Communism to fix it.



[edit on 29-11-2009 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

You know IIB, one fear that you have is that the NWO is using the ZM to educate the masses to be more accepting of these technologies when they come about but not be in a position to afford them thus letting the rich elite leave the regulars in the dust, perhaps to eliminate us altogether.

What we would need to do is level the playing field. Take away that which gives the rich it's power...money. From the graphs I've seen on the AGI site, the rich represent a monopoly of sorts, and we need to break that monopoly. ZM proposes an RBE to do just that.

Originally posted by TrueTruth
My favorite memory from my time on the ZM boards, was when we had a pedophile on the boards, and the mods wouldn't do anything about it. The guy was openly talking about his beliefs in the naturalness of having sex with children - on a board that had kids on it.

They hopped all over ME if I said a bad word about PJ ... but pedophiles? Perfectly welcome.

They're completely misguided fools.

Nice smear job. Link please or stfu.

Originally posted by TeeZedem
What we would need to do is level the playing field. Take away that which gives the rich it's power...money. From the graphs I've seen on the AGI site, the rich represent a monopoly of sorts, and we need to break that monopoly. ZM proposes an RBE to do just that.

Problem with that is the plutocrats are building something that sounds exactly like that:

They've got all that sorted out. Here's the technological framework:

www.planetaryskin.org...


techonomy.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...