Fuming Mad Christian

reply to post by elaine


The funny part is...he does believe in Jesus, just not in the organized religion with all of its dogma and man made rules.

He was also raised by pentecostal parents and is incredibly well versed in the bible and christian faith. I was raised presbyterian with 13 years of catholic schooling.

So while we might not call ourselves christian we both have a very strong backround and education of many facets of the christian faith.

But we as a family don't discount any belief system as long as it leads one to do good in their life. We take a "one mountain many paths to the top approach to life."

We go to the Unitarian church and absolutely love it. We have made good friends, my son gets the experience of the church community and chance to learn about ethics and morals and doing good works but you can believe in whatever god or religion (or not believe) and still be welcome and accepted.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

Well, that realy didn't get 'added' until the late 1950's - they also tacked on 'under god' to the pledge of allegiance as well.

It was probably just government propaganda in an attempt to demonize the Commies.

After the online promoters of Christianity on this tread complete their surveys and "Market Share" analisis... just like a low rating on the nielson reports for the entertainment industry, this is the head scratching report they will hand into their preachers and overlords...

"I can con myself, my wife and my children into believin the Good Books un-proven facts ....but, the educated folks now-ah-days ain't fallin for our ridiculous message anymore..."

Well your a Catholic which is not a Christian. Christians follow Christ. Christ said not to worship man, worship no images and it's the father that forgives. Catholics worship a woman (blest as she was), have statues/images in their churches, have priests who forgive sins which only God can do.
So whats your point about Christians again ???????
By the way, most Catholic images of Christ have him as a white man. He was a brown skinned jewish boy from Nazareth before he became the Christ!

Originally posted by oliveoil
I am addressing everyone and anyone who has problem against Christians.
First off when you say Christians, Who the H. E. double hockey sticks are you referring to?
There are over twenty two denominations and or sects and they are not all the same.

Except in one important area..none of them practice the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Second, What is your big problem anyway? Is it that we have faith and believe in Christ?
Is it that we Cloth the poor? Feed the Hungry? Comfort the sick?Help the homeless?
(Whens the last time you did that?)

Actually no, it's the incessant droning "Look at us we are superior to you."

I do all of these things, regularly. My reward ? my own sense of well being. I do not need to trumpet about my "humility", neither do I have a need to buy my way into a mythical afterlife.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Or maybe its because of our close ties to Judaism and Israel.

FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

Guess again. The U.S.A. was founded on the premise of no state religion, granting all the right to worship as they choose without fear of persecution.

Originally posted by oliveoil
Our national motto is IN GOD WE TRUST for crying out loud,Which in my opinion is undeniable PROOF that the United States government acknowledges that the God of the Christian Bible exists.

Again, your myopic viewpoint becomes apparent. In God we trust indeed. However since the Jewish, Christian and Islamic god is one and the same..then by extrapolation it acknowledges both Jewish and Islamic religious texts also.
It is a generic statement to placate the masses.

Originally posted by oliveoil
If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America. And God knows America does not need anymore problems. So please, just CHILL OUT !!

Myopic once again. There is more to the world than America and Christianity is not the dominant religion in most of it.
Also insulting, since I am a veteran. I love my country, but feel no desire to practice a religion Abrahamaic or otherwise.

All religions are false.

Get on with your lives.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
Originally posted by gemineye

I will never begin to get preachy with someone. I will not condemn them and call them sinners, for in their heart they know what they are.

I do not believe in your sins. Which means I am not a sinner. Were I a follower of the Quran, YOU would be a sinner. However, I am not. There is not one person, being or imagination that can condemn me, and call me a sinner. Your beliefs are yours, not mine. You don't know what my heart says because it has no mouth. The mouth of my body, and mind, will tell you that your sins were created as a way to control people. I live my life the way I believe it should be. I live a good life helping people, and I disagree with ALL religions. But, like you, I am still either turning into ashes or going six feet under.

As to the OP, I was raised through many different churches, and MOST Christians are the worst ones out there. I don't judge, so don't judge me. Christians have a real problem with that...

reply to post by czlong07


It comes down to perspective. You said you live a "good life". Well, if you were to NOT live a good life, I would call that living a life of "sin" whereas you would call it living something else. I can't stress this enough...IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT LABEL YOU SLAP ON IT. You're getting caught up in semantics.

Originally posted by oliveoil


FACT: America is a Christian country and was founded on Christian Values.

FACT

America is home to the largest population of jewish people on the planet, and is based on jewish values and hollywood movies based on the holocaust or alien nazi monsters, and half naked jewish women slapped on posters.


you mean you have only woken up to the fact that America is no longer America? and is now the United states of Israel?

Tough luck, well it explains why the middle east cant distinguish you from one another.

Originally posted by oliveoil

If you have a problem with Christians you have a problem with America.

Wait what? I could have sworn America was suppose to be founded on religious freedom and the choice to choose what you believe. If you have a problem with Christians then you have a problem with...well Christians. If you have a problem with free speech and right to your own opinion THEN you have a problem with America.

reply to post by oliveoil



Err...I know you THINK America is a Christian Nation, but in actuality it's a Capitalist Democratic Republic with Christianity as one of the religious followings currently protected by the Constitution of The United States of America, we also have this neat little idea that we put in place called separation of Church and State. Truth is...most of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons, which are not Christians, period. Truth is...If they wanted a Christian State they would have left the separation of Church and State out. Truth is...just because most Americans are supposedly Christian doesn't mean we are all of a sudden a Christian Nation who decrees the laws based on religious beliefs.

Seems to me someone, somewhere has decided to ignore facts to make a pointless argument on a Conspiracy Website, of all places...

Here is a hypothetical question for you...Why is it so important for Christians to Feel like we are a Christian Nation, who operates according to some man-made Biblical Standard? Name one other Christian Nation?

This country was founded by men, who under todays definition would be terrorists (Boston tea party, etc.), Mass Murders (Native Americans), and oppressive Slave Traders.

If thats what constitutes a Christian Nation, then all you Christians should be ashamed of your hypocritical rhetoric. Where are the Christian Values right now? Why are most Christians, who are predominately Republicans, against universal health care? I mean to use your own argument against you, You stated, you "Cloth the poor", Feed the Hungry", etc...So heal the sick too...with your tax payer money. Our most Christian President ever, George W. Bush, helped the Rich screw over Americans by cutting taxes for Company's who moved jobs over seas...to non-christian countries like China and India!!! Do you, Sir or Ma'am, even pay attention to the news and the real order of events as they unfold? Have you even bothered stringing every thing together, for yourself, to see the big picture? Or do you just sit there and twist all the FACTS to suit your perspective?

By the way, if you substitute the word Christian with Muslim in your rant I would totally think you are from Iran or Pakistan or some other Ruled by Religious Dogma Country...

Just a Thought,

Just Joe

PS. Don't respond...I don't want to hear it!!!

[edit on 3-12-2009 by JustJoe]

[edit on 3-12-2009 by JustJoe]

reply to post by JustJoe


Not that I respect you request that I don't reply or anything, But I just had to.

Truth is...most of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons, which are not Christians, period.

Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Declaration of Independence

Charles Carroll Maryland Catholic
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
William Williams Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Lyman Hall Georgia Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Whipple New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine Massachusetts Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton Georgia Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
George Ross Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton South Carolina Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney Delaware Episcopalian
Samuel Chase Maryland Episcopalian
William Paca Maryland Episcopalian
Thomas Stone Maryland Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson New Jersey Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Lewis Morris New York Episcopalian
William Hooper North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Morton Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Stephen Hopkins Rhode Island Episcopalian
Carter Braxton Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Harrison Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Nelson Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Wythe Virginia Episcopalian
Thomas Jefferson Virginia Episcopalian (Deist)
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
Button Gwinnett Georgia Episcopalian; Congregationalist
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyterian
Joseph Hewes North Carolina Quaker, Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker, Episcopalian
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
Matthew Thornton New Hampshire Presbyterian
Abraham Clark New Jersey Presbyterian
John Hart New Jersey Presbyterian
Richard Stockton New Jersey Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
William Floyd New York Presbyterian
Philip Livingston New York Presbyterian
James Smith Pennsylvania Presbyterian
George Taylor Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Benjamin Rush Pennsylvania Presbyterian

www.adherents.com...

reply to post by JustJoe


Religious Affiliation of the Signers of the
Articles of Confederation

Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Andrew Adams Connecticut Congregationalist
Richard Hutson South Carolina Congregationalist
Samuel Adams Massachusetts Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett New Hampshire Congregationalist
William Ellery Rhode Island Congregationalist
John Hancock Massachusetts Congregationalist
Samuel Huntington Connecticut Congregationalist
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott Connecticut Congregationalist
Thomas Heyward Jr. South Carolina Episcopalian
John Penn North Carolina Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee Virginia Episcopalian
Francis Lewis New York Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry Massachusetts Episcopalian
John Banister Virginia Episcopalian
James Duane New York Episcopalian
Edward Langworthy Georgia Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris New York Episcopalian
Nicholas Van Dyke Delaware Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Cornelius Harnett North Carolina Episcopalian (Deist)
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
Henry Laurens South Carolina Huguenot
John Hanson Maryland Lutheran
Thomas McKean Delaware Presbyterian
John Witherspoon New Jersey Presbyterian
John Walton Georgia Presbyterian
Nathaniel Scudder New Jersey Presbyterian
William Clingan Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Joseph Reed Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Daniel Roberdeau Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Jonathan Bayard Smith Pennsylvania Protestant, denomination unknown
Francis Dana Massachusetts Protestant, denomination unknown
Samuel Holten Massachusetts Protestant, denomination unknown
James Lovell Massachusetts Protestant, denomination unknown
Henry Marchant Rhode Island Protestant, denomination unknown
John Collins Rhode Island Protestant, denomination unknown
Thomas Adams Virginia Protestant, denomination unknown
John Harvie Virginia Protestant, denomination unknown
John Mathews South Carolina Protestant, denomination unknown
William Henry Drayton South Carolina Protestant, denomination unknown
William Duer New York Protestant, denomination unknown
Titus Hosmer Connecticut Protestant, denomination unknown
Edward Telfair Georgia Protestant, denomination unknown
John Wentworth Jr. New Hampshire Protestant, denomination unknown
John Williams North Carolina Protestant, denomination unknown

Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran

Religious Affiliation of the Delegates to the
Constitutional Convention of 1787, including the
Signers of the Constitution of the United States of America

Daniel Carroll Maryland Catholic
Thomas Fitzsimons Pennsylvania Catholic
Roger Sherman Connecticut Congregationalist
Nathaniel Gorham Massachusetts Congregationalist
John Langdon New Hampshire Congregationalist
Nicholas Gilman New Hampshire Congregationalist
Abraham Baldwin Georgia Congregationalist; Episcopalian
William Samuel Johnson Connecticut Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Madison Jr. Virginia Episcopalian
George Read Delaware Episcopalian
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer Maryland Episcopalian
David Brearly New Jersey Episcopalian
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Sr. North Carolina Episcopalian
Robert Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
Gouverneur Morris Pennsylvania Episcopalian
John Rutledge South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Charles Pinckney South Carolina Episcopalian
Pierce Butler South Carolina Episcopalian
George Washington Virginia Episcopalian
Benjamin Franklin Pennsylvania Episcopalian (Deist)
William Blount North Carolina Episcopalian; Presbyterian
James Wilson Pennsylvania Episcopalian; Presbyteran
Rufus King Massachusetts Episcopalian; Congregationalist
Jacob Broom Delaware Lutheran
William Few Georgia Methodist
Richard Bassett Delaware Methodist
Gunning Bedford Jr. Delaware Presbyterian
James McHenry Maryland Presbyterian
William Livingston New Jersey Presbyterian
William Paterson New Jersey Presbyterian
Hugh Williamson North Carolina Presbyterian
Jared Ingersoll Pennsylvania Presbyterian
Alexander Hamilton New York Huguenot; Presbyterian; Episcopalian
Jonathan Dayton New Jersey Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Blair Virginia Presbyterian; Episcopalian
John Dickinson Delaware Quaker; Episcopalian
George Clymer Pennsylvania Quaker; Episcopalian
Thomas Mifflin Pennsylvania Quaker; Lutheran

reply to post by JustJoe


www.adherents.com...

The signers of the Declaration of Independence were a profoundly intelligent, religious and ethically-minded group. Four of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were current or former full-time preachers, and many more were the sons of clergymen. Other professions held by signers include lawyers, merchants, doctors and educators. These individuals, too, were for the most part active churchgoers and many contributed significantly to their churches both with contributions as well as their service as lay leaders. The signers were members of religious denominations at a rate that was significantly higher than average for the American Colonies during the late 1700s.

Seems to me someone, somewhere has decided to ignore facts to make a pointless argument on a Conspiracy Website, of all places...

duly noted..
Thanks for your post


[edit on 3-12-2009 by oliveoil]

I understand that you're a new member here, but your views are completely flawed, OP.

1) No one on ATS that has a good heart regardless of religion or creed believes that Christians are bad people, I myself have attended lunches and dinners within their facilities when I was in lack of better availabilities, and I thanked them, and their god.

2) We just don't want you to plague the boards with scripture.

3) America, regardless of who founded it is no better than any other country.

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
I understand that you're a new member here, but your views are completely flawed, OP.

1) No one on ATS that has a good heart regardless of religion or creed believes that Christians are bad people, I myself have attended lunches and dinners within their facilities when I was in lack of better availabilities, and I thanked them, and their god.

2) We just don't want you to plague the boards with scripture.

3) America, regardless of who founded it is no better than any other country.

No offense taken. However, I am going to take my belief where ever it takes me,This being the Religious boards here on ATS. If you dont want to hear about it CHANGE THE CHANNEL!!!.

And yes you are correct, America is not BETTER than any other country on earth. We are the GREATEST country on earth, Giving me this,The Freedom of Religion.

Just because someone says they are a Christian, doesn't mean they are actually a Christian, in Mind Body and Soul...

FACT: Most Freemasons during the Revolutionary Period, were hiding in plain site. They were extremely popular, but extremely secretive, and mostly an underground type group, like a whispered and necessary evil. They would not and still do not call the beliefs of Freemasonry a religion because they understood the benefit of being Wolves in Sheep's Wool. Choosing to use their power and prestige to guide the people in their Church's toward their goals unaware of all the facts. Kind of like a False Flag type thing.

Radical Muslims don't go around calling themselves Radical Muslims or Terrorists, NO! They call themselves devote Muslims. Radical Christians don't run around calling themselves Radical Christians do they, No! They call themselves Evangelist(joke, sorry). Well Freemasons call themselves Christians or Jews or whatever, but they choose to follow the ancient teachings of The Mystery Schools of Egypt, which predates Christ. So most of the people you listed could be considered actual agents of Freemasonry while publicly regarded as Christians.

Plus back in those days everyone went to Church for socialization and to find out what was new in their pocket of the world. So your argument isn't holding water with me. I can say Just Joe = Raging Christian, but what does that really tell you, hmm? Or I could say Just Joe = Child of The Universal Architect, what does that mean to you, really?

I'll admit, my argument is a little weak in the data department, but my point is we are differentiating over our opinions, yours based in faith and beliefs, Mine based on American History and Conspiracy Theory. FACT still is the Founding Fathers, in all their Christian Righteousness, purposely made our country a Non-Christian Country. It is not implied either, which is also were I see you are trying to go with some of this. FYI...just because someone says they are this or that means little, because men are nothing more than a Sum Of Their Actions and Choices...

Just Joe

reply to post by JustJoe


Wouldn't it be much easier to believe in the truth than all that Freemason mumbojumbo? I mean, come on now! this is crazy talk.

reply to post by oliveoil

I don't want to sound anti-Semitic but if you are against the concept of Jesus Christ who was almost the entire point of Christianity you are by definition anti-Christ.
Now this is perfectly fine. You may be pro or anti anything on this earth. It is your personal right. As long as you hurt no one (thus proving you are incapable of functioning in a civil society) you should be left to live in peace regardless of your religious inclinations.
However if you call yourself Christian you have an obligation to witness and not to stand by quietly and allow your fellow man to fall short of the glory of God. You have a duty to speak the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, for however long it takes to convince your fellow man that they are going down a path which only leads to destruction and death.
If Bethlehem, Jerusalem and other Christian Holy-lands were defended by Christianity and not abandoned like orphans on a battleground in the cross hairs of two other religious groups who are not it's parents and care less about it, the Mideast would not be in such maddening turmoil.
It is only the Christian values and Jesus Christ's very pointed and specific teachings dealing with LOVE YOUR ENEMY, TURN THE OTHER CHEEK, and LOVE THE SINNER that will remedy the violent hostility and attacks of vengeance happening in the region now and throughout all recent history. It is an unmistakable Christian obligation to directly confront the anti-Christ. You need a bloody cross on the door to tell you who these people are? If Christians were more effective at teaching, sharing, mending and helping with their own non-violent and self sacrificing values (if you are truly a follower of Jesus teachings and NOT an OT fringe loony-toon you are non violent) to non-Christians, first the Jewish faith and then the Islamic, people would have to calm down tensions in the region of the Mideast.
I do not say CHANGE anyone's religion but I advocate sharing the tenants and agreeing on what you can and requesting the more peaceful Christian all forgiving way be tried.
If you are really a Christian...aside from loving God with all your heart..Get those who are anti-Christ TO Christ instead of using your influence following fags and young pregnant girls around to see what they are up to. You are only making people write off religion completely as just another bad idea.
Fight the anti-Christ. What the heck else are you here for?
And to save you the effort...it ain't Obama. He not only believes in Jesus, he trusts the words Jesus used and believes what He said, so totally unlike many other people falsely claiming to be "Christian" out there.



[edit on 3-12-2009 by rusethorcain]

I don't think calling people fags is a very christian thing to do.


I am more than open to hearing about someone's religious beliefs, the problem happens when rather than sharing their own experience they start telling me how my experience is wrong, hurtful and going down a path of destruction as you put it.