Hindu sacrifice of 250,000 animals begins

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
While the quote is taken from something that is highly metaphorical, I think that it means exactly what it says. You are ENTITLED to just that, "bread and water." Nothing more,nothing less.

While I am very spiritual in nature, I do not disregard evolution. You seemed to imply that I was "Darwinistic." Maybe to a degree that is true. Honestly,I seenoconflict with what I spiritually believe and Darwinism.However, we are sliding off topic.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by SpeakerofTruth]

I simply cannot reconcile your literal interpretation with my metaphorical one. I would say that while entitled to "bread and water", I wonder if you really refer to entitlements that might be construed more as "bread and circuses". Anyway, yes, the topic is slightly skewed by your choosing to address my assertion but it ties in well with feeling compassion for all life. On that connection it is still relevent to the idea of unwilling sacrifice.

I meant "Darwinistic" in a social Darwinistic way, not natural selection a la The Origin of Species.

Main Entry: social Darwinism
Function: noun
Date: 1887
: an extension of Darwinism to social phenomena; specifically : a sociological theory that sociocultural advance is the product of intergroup conflict and competition and the socially elite classes (as those possessing wealth and power) possess biological superiority in the struggle for existence
— social Darwinist noun or adjective

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Well, I gotcha. However, social Darwinists would assert that some are entitled and some are not.That is not what I am saying at all.I am saying that a person,whether it be you or I, should not have a feeling of entitlement just because they are born into the world.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Well, I gotcha. However, social Darwinists would assert that some are entitled and some are not.That is not what I am saying at all.I am saying that a person,whether it be you or I, should not have a feeling of entitlement just because they are born into the world.

I promise, I'm not just trying to have the last word. I just wish make my point clear enough. Usually I am one with little to say.

I do not have any sense of entitlement that is inherently over and above another. Is that really "entitlement" as commonly understood in the perjorative? Even in Buddhist philosophy, it could be considered that everyone is entitled to the opportunity to eventually reach enlightenment. They are also entitled to prolong their own suffering. Purposeful denial of that "entitlement" by another could be considered denying "bread and water" in a way.

Now, back on track a little-- the sense of entitlement over the animals. It is clear that these individual are not willing to risk their own "prosperity" and "power" by not appeasing a bloodlusting entity. One could step back and say, "I don't care. I am not going to do that to appease this abomination. I don't feel it's right."

Three main outcomes are possible:

1. Things get worse
   
2. Thing stay about the same
   
3. Things get better
   

They are in the grip of fear, unwilling to make a willing and unselfish sacrifice. So much so that 1. could be self-fulfilling because of the conviction. As such, 2. and 3. will never really be realized freely. They might find another less destructive path if they'd only risk it, openly, without fear. Perhaps the priest, Chandan Dev Chaudhary, gets to skim a little of the revenue and that's the real reason for the objection to its discontinuation. It's thus natural to encourage the belief in and necessity of the practice. Of course, that's speculation but not wild speculation. What would make that particular organized belief system and its institutions essentially different than any other?

(It occurs to me even we aren't with a much different sort of dilemma. If fact, it seems to describe the world generally.)

As much as I'd love to not have to kill even a plant or microbe, I think time and time again it's been proven what the outcome of such a choice is within the rules of this environment. Heh, maybe my life will improve if I sacrifice animals in the basement to some diety. Somehow I doubt it. Honestly, I don't even care if it would. I'll consider other options if in fact anything really requires improving.

If there is any option for me this time, I do not wish to come back here even if there's a few things I do like while present. The only reason to be here is to help others out of it, if they ask of course. You cannot force it down their throats.

Perhaps you don't subscribe to any of that and it sounds like nonsense. Unfortunately I don't quite feel capable of fully expressing just why I think there is something to it since the knowing is largely gained fluidly and personally.

If it's all of a materialist, monist nature and my realizations are simply neurologically-generated delusions, then really the whole thing is much easier. I have nothing to worry about. I won't be back. Unfortunately, I won't be back to help either. Guess I'd better do what's within my means NOW (nothing essentially changed, did it? ).

(Again, I wonder why I'm so verbose over the past couple days. Eek! )

[edit on 11/30/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Originally posted by EnlightenUp

Originally posted by kaskade
For someone who's name is "enlightened up" you surely ARE NOT.
Life is suffering, that IS this world. You can not change certain things in this world. And this is one of them. "life sucks".... an enlightened person would NEVER say or state, nor believe that. Life sucks...life is what you make of it. Sure there is suffering, but its very necessary part of this world. Without it you would never know the otherwise.

What you are saying is that if there is no suffering, there is no life. But, you do provide the way out by saying that (life is suffering), IS this world. Thus, there is part of this world where there is no life and no suffering up to life, suffering and this world being the equivalent. More strictly, you are saying this world is greater than or equal to suffering and suffering greater than or equal to life. Saying that there is a world without suffering would strangely be without life. But, if life it what we make it, our choices and actions shape it and therefore can transmute it thusly, by degrees, into life without suffering. Life cannot be suffering if we can choose what to make of it. It is not bound by suffering and possibly not by this world. There must be life without suffering, which contradicts the original proposition that life is suffering, is this world.

Another flagrant and decidedly demonic lie is that, as such all polarities must be actualized rather than potentiated in order to provide the contrast. Take temperature. Nothing in the universe need actually realize absolute zero for the possibility to be...possible.

Silly wabbit.

Edit to illustrate:


Edit again: Use more stringently precise inequalities.

[edit on 11/30/2009 by EnlightenUp]

[edit on 11/30/2009 by EnlightenUp]

Whatever way you LOOK or VIEW SOMETHING, is your OWN and no one can change that. But to think that YOUR view, is the view of all is foolish. Yes of course if you view suffering in a positive light,and change it, it will no doubt get better. But the suffering will always remain, the only thing that can CHANGE is your POINT OF VIEW.

Your words really dont make any sense to me...at least not to THIS subject or THIS "discussion".

Suffering will always remain in this world. No matter how many points of views, or minds you try to change. Even your own.

this is reminiscent of the buddhist sutra...
An Elephant, A horse, and a Rabbit are crossing a river:
For the rabbit the river is very deep, for the horse it is somewhat deep, and for the Elephant it is not deep at all.

The conditions for each of these animals are different, and yet the river remains the same.

For how you view it is different, but non the less the "river" aka suffering remains the same.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
reply to post by kaskade

 

I think your sarcasm detector needs a tuneup. You bet it concerns me. It all concerns me and is personally a very painful awareness exacerbated also by my own participation in this level.

So, feel free to attack me. It practically feels like nothing in the larger scheme. "Practically" because it helps divert me a little bit from that pain. For that gift I must bless you...and give thanks. You are my proverbial thanksgiving turkey.

[edit on 11/30/2009 by EnlightenUp]

No Problem =]
Its healthy to share each person's personal views. How would we learn, if we never thought otherwise right
(this goes both ways...not trying to be a pompous ass lol)

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
reply to post by EnlightenUp

 

Well, you implied that the very fact that you were born you are somehow "owed" certain things. Nothing is owed to you or anyone else.What have you done to cause you to have an entitlement outlook?

You see that is part of the problem with the world today.Everyone thinks they have a "right" to have or say whatever they want. That's not logical nor is it empirical.

You are free to have an opinion, but don't make the mental leap that it is a "birthright." I don't know what religion or spiritual practice you have,none of my business.However, only thing is promised to you by God or the universe, whichever you prefer, and that is "bread and water."

I have to dis-agree with you on this one..
We all have a right to say what we feel, if it DOESNT hurt others. ANYONE who is "fully evolved" knows that the ULTIMATE US, is a open hearted, loving, caring, empathetic person. ALMOST EVERYONE who is "good" knows they can be better...and ENVIOUS those who are better. Even those who are fortunate enough to realize before they die, that do wrong deeds, that do bad things...REALIZE that they WISH or HOPE they could change into something bETTER....

WE ALL HAVE a right to live...we are ALL OWED to be happy. WE ARE ALL given the right to live a HAPPY, loving life, and realize our potential.

ANYONE AND EVERYONE looks up to someone who is POSITIVE, at least IN THERE EYES...
If not...what are all these religions based off of? AND EVEN that... what are all these religions trying to mimic? SOMEONE who is a "BETTER YOU"

Even atheists might not believe in a GOD of some sort...but at least they realize that this WORLD is once in a lifetime...so live it to the fullest...and usually that doesn't mean by KILLING or hurting others.

So i have to agree with enlighten...we are ALL OWED SOMETHING in this life. Most are just to weak to realize that we are all OWED the same things just as the other person next to you is. Under neath it all...we are all the same. (literally)

Originally posted by Egyptia
reply to post by karl 12

 

This is utterly horrifying. How in this day and age with all the bloodshed, poverty and suffering can people still continue consciously more bloodshed and killing? What has become of us?

What is more utterly horrifying is that you will READ THIS...feel bad for a moment...and walk away and do absolutely NOTHING, and let this feeling slip away from you, and give it not a second thought. That is of course...until you log in and check what i just wrote

ITS HORRIFYING...yet almost everyone on ATS knows you will not do a damn thing about it, or at least even TRY to do something about it.

ACTIONS express's PRIORITIES

reply to post by kaskade



I am shocked that blood sacrifice still goes on!!
Also that people actually believe in it and what it's supposed to do besides a mass slaughter!! It's sad really.
a question
What in the world can we do kaskade?
It's easy to say 'fix it' or make it stop' without solutions.

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
reply to post by kaskade

 

I am shocked that blood sacrifice still goes on!!
Also that people actually believe in it and what it's supposed to do besides a mass slaughter!! It's sad really.
a question
What in the world can we do kaskade?
It's easy to say 'fix it' or make it stop' without solutions.

Obviously, no where did i say GO FIX IT...i said if you are going to say how HORRIFYING SOMETHING IS...do something about it. Dont just speak about it. We all can make a HUGE CHANGE, all it requires is a BIT of effort on yours/my part. Dont say nothing can be done.

"hey wouldn't it be cool if SOMEHOW we could fly?"...
and then what happened? SOME HOW we figured out how to do it..

"hey that would be awesome to go to that big white glowing rock in the sky...but how?"

BAM we made a rocket and went to the moon...

ANYTHING...literally ANYTHING can happen, as long as you TRY.
Like i said in an earlier post...suffering is all around us...it will be there, and everywhere no matter what we try to do. But you can never stop it unless you TRY.

Originally posted by kaskade
Suffering will always remain in this world. No matter how many points of views, or minds you try to change. Even your own.

There is a choice in the matter as to the degree we wish to self-inflict or inflict upon others and other life. In short, to recap, if life is what we make it, then there must be life without it or at least to a lesser degree in this world, achievable in some way. What is the point of Buddhism if not to attain the cessation of suffering? I thought that was what the Four Noble Truths address! (For some reason I feel like you relate under that framework.)

Do mind that your "IN SEARCH OF ENLIGHTENMENT" (from your current mini-profile lines) is suffering. LOL.

this is reminiscent of the buddhist sutra...
An Elephant, A horse, and a Rabbit are crossing a river:
For the rabbit the river is very deep, for the horse it is somewhat deep, and for the Elephant it is not deep at all.

The conditions for each of these animals are different, and yet the river remains the same.

For how you view it is different, but non the less the "river" aka suffering remains the same.

The problem is the emphasis on the unique experience, the differences for each rather than the common shared experience. My sense is that much more will be common to the experience than different and one thing is for sure, they will all get wet (I assume that it is meant to imply they cross in the water)!

Then again, perhaps it's the dry season and they just walk across the riverbed.

[edit on 12/1/2009 by EnlightenUp]