Hatred for Christians

Originally posted by moocowman
Absolutely marvelous thanx and I hope everything is well with you.

marvelous

Agreed to which I would add, that it would appear that the chirstian church did much the same

that's exactly my point, people who want other people to do immoral stuff will use anything as justification, christianity, islam, atheism, science, anything. it's about the immoral stuff and how easy it is to encourage people to do it, not the justification used to encourage people to do it.

you've heard of the milgram experiment? it kind of shows the pointlessness of pointing to religion as a cause for immoral actions. the problem seems to be mans willingness to follow immoral instructions.

I think that's about all Pieman I'm sure you will now proceed to endeavor to take me apart lol

not at all, you're to much fun just as you are.

[edit on 24/11/09 by pieman]

reply to post by On the Edge

No one is telling you what to believe or not believe.

My parents certainly didn't but as soon as I went to school oh boy the xtians surely got their own back.

It starts like this "God is watching you, you bad boy" then the imaginative stories to wean me onto the lifetime guilt trip.

"jesus died for you and this is how you repay him ?"

Get a grip dude mu children are currently held in isolation because they chose not to believe.

You do spend alot of time and energy on this topic though. I wonder why.

When you guys stop then so will I, I can think of better things to do you know.

You have "hate" in your very signature. Seems like a waste of time to me.If I didn't believe in something,I'd just go find something I liked and believed in,and focus on that,in a positive way!

I take it that you have no objections to our laws that would include homosexuals having the right to be married?

us on it,but there's no hate for others in anything I'm sayinI find joy in what I believe,so I do focg.(You saw what I posted about what the Lord hates,right?...Still,I'm not out to attack people who do those things! God says to love one another. That's what I try to do!)

Dude you can take delight in whatever and believe what you wish and I will always defend your right do so.

The mere notion that it is possible for an omniscient,omnipresent,omnipotent, omnibenevolent being, to hate any part of what it is alleged to have created, has to be the most illogical idea ever.

reply to post by IconoclasticTalamasca

From the answers you have received from the nonbelievers who have answered, myself included, has it helped you gain a better understanding of why some people, including atheists, have an issue with christianity and some christians? Can you see how the religion and its followers can be a little..off-putting... to some?

EDIT: I see the above poster asked the same question as myself, worded a little differently though. LOL..

Well i start this reply by thanking EVERYBODY who has answered so far, because i believe you have all answered honestly

Do i agree with all the answers? LOL of course not... but I do respect them!

However, let’s just say some answers have been more helpful than others

I seems that, like everything in life, it’s all different reasons.

Some people simply hate Christians because of fear and/or outright irritation that people view the world differently to them.

Some people don’t hate Christian but simply dislike organised religion.

Some just don’t believe in God but are happy to let other people have their beliefs without the need to mock them... it seems like a good mix of different views which is cool.

riley

With regards to the "Why do so many Atheists hate Christianity?!?! comment in the opening post... you will see that a few posts on in reply to a post from jinx880101 i said...

I never said all Atheists hate Christians... Please forgive me if I gave that impression... i Believe it is only a minority of Atheists who hate Christians... I just want to know why!!

“So many” does not mean "most" or "all"

I remember reading once that there are 203 million atheists in the world... if only 1% of them hate Christians that still a lot of hate in the world... so to ask why so many hate Christians I feel is legitimate.

But I did not mean for it to sound like I meant “all” or “most”... i apologise if i gave that impression.

reply to post by pieman

the problem seems to be mans willingness to follow immoral instructions.

If the immoral instruction is to kill a child for misbehavior, then surely reason would tell us to remove the immoral instruction not make efforts to prevent people from acting upon it ?

"For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom,and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength." 1 Corinthians 1:25

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,but to us who are being saved,it is the power of God. For it is written:'I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." 1 Corinthians 1:18

"We do however,speak a message of wisdom among the mature,but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age,who are coming to nothing." 1 Corinthians 2:1

So,Christians frustrate those who follow the wisdom of the world!

We just do not make sense to them!

"Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand,..." Jude 10

It's natural to want proof. It takes more than that to have faith!

"They said to you in the last days there would be scoffers,who follow their own ungodly desire. These are men who divide you,who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the spirit." Jude 18:19

Just what if we were saying all of this,and substituting the Easter Bunny in place of God. Would any of you "scoffers" spend so much time trying to refute our beliefs,or would you just go spend time with your "intelligent" friends and laugh behind our backs?

Are you trying to "save us from ourselves",out of love,or is there something else?

And why aren't you offering a different belief as a substitute? Are there any other beliefs out there worth dying for? If so,I'd like to hear them!

Hmmm....???

It starts like this "God is watching you, you bad boy" then the imaginative stories to wean me onto the lifetime guilt trip.

"jesus died for you and this is how you repay him ?"

So you had some bad experiences. I never had people like that,trying to "guilt" me into believing.

The "good news" was just plain "good news" to me!

We obviously come from completely different perspectives. Maybe I'd feel the same way if I'd had your experiences.

Good luck with whatever it is you do believe!

Sincerely,On the Edge


[edit on 24-11-2009 by On the Edge]

Originally posted by moocowman
If the immoral instruction is to kill a child for misbehavior, then surely reason would tell us to remove the immoral instruction not make efforts to prevent people from acting upon it ?

i disagree, if a person is not capable of understanding that killing a child for misbehavior is wrong, then attempting to protect them from the idea is as pointless as running between raindrops.

reply to post by Muckster

Some people simply hate Christians because of fear and/or outright irritation that people view the world differently to them.

Have you not considered that some could fear the fear that Christianity can bring and has brought ?

You must not forget and no christian ever should, that this religion only obtained its position in the world through fear.

Throughout the dialogue this historical truth has not been observed , Christianity was forced upon populations by use of fear. Although it would be wrong to say no one accepted xtianity with open arms it was fear that made it what it is.

Fear of death, fear of torture, fear of retribution, fear of rape, fear of prison, fear of drowning, fear of education, fear of demons, fear of sickness and on and on.

Christianity did not suddenly appear as a world religion with populations running headlong into the arms of love and compassion.

Love and compassion were said to be the ideals of its founder. Whether a real character or not, the minute the bibles were compiled this belief was forced upon people with fear.

We only have to look at the way many atheists have been treated even until quite recently to see how this religion operates.

Today we do not hold the German people accountable for what their forbears allowed to happen or did do. BUT, if the german constitution stated that jews were this or that and should be put to death because of the way they are--

Well your an intelligent bloke I don't think I need elaborate on that.

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by moocowman
If the immoral instruction is to kill a child for misbehavior, then surely reason would tell us to remove the immoral instruction not make efforts to prevent people from acting upon it ?

i disagree, if a person is not capable of understanding that killing a child for misbehavior is wrong, then attempting to protect them from the idea is as pointless as running between raindrops.

However, if you give an individual a book and persuade him that it is absolute truth from god and the morals are gods morals you have a problem.

If the individual has learned that it is ok to kill in some circumstances but not in another as many apologists do claim albeit in retrospect, then we have a very serious moral dilemma.

Indeed these moral dilemmas within the bibles have in part (perhaps a very big part) brought our societies to where they are now IE rejecting religion in favor of secularism and reason.

The argument of though shalt not kill and though shalt not do murder has gone on for ever but what is being overlooked is how murder is defined.

Secular law (the law of men) dictates that it is illegal to put a child to death for misbehaving it is morally repugnant.
Jewish law made it quite clear that the child was to be put to death a law given by the god which created the "though shalt not do murder " law so this is by definition legal killing.

We can see clearly time and again just here on ATS very few xtians are in agreement on their interpretation of the bibles and often imply they are open to individual interpretation.

There is nothing except secular law, stopping the verses being taken as read and this is where xtianity has made a rod for it's own back.

Secular political correctness is now creating blanket laws and very near thought policing, the very thing it accused religion of. Christianity has allowed this to happen by not addressing immoral verses in their bibles, it has opened the door to the extremes secularist which is only bad news for everyone.

In a nutshell, if I tomorrow became religious I could quite easily defend my position fro killing my misbehaving child by quoting a verse from the bible .
There are numerous xtians today allowing their children to suffer or even die because they believe what the bibles have to say about healing.

It's not good enough to claim "well jesus meant this or that and told people who had not sinned to cast the first stone" etc this only means something to someone who claims to know what it means.

Originally posted by noonebutme
To go along with the question ZombieOctopus raised : why can't we make fun of religion without the usual shameful and scornful looks? I make fun of "Stargate Atlantis" and no one bats an eye. Why should making fun of one garner more scorn than another? Both are made up and not real.

Stargate Atlantis is not so bad now that we have Stargate Universe!
It's like watching Battlestar Galactica, Lifetime and fake reality TV all rolled into one. I can barely stand even the spaceship scenes. When they switch to something other than Dr. Rush I hit the FF button.

A-a-a-a-anyway, people get upset about their precious made up religions because they want them to be real.
So they get upset when someone tells them that there is no Santa Claus. Except, these are grown up people who should know better.

well I only hate maybe two or three people at most in the world and they are both christian and atheist.

neither is intelligent enough to say I don't know.

I hate religion(not the followers,though sometimes) because it is so arrogant.
Ask any religion a question and you will be given an answer.
the churches won't tell you they don't know,they'll make stuff up and then burn or behead you if you disagree.

science will say we don't know,let's find out.
then formulate a hypothesis and devise an experiment to prove or disprove it.
ever hear a pope or mullah or whatever say that?

the only religons that have an ounce of credibility with me are of the buddist sort.
that is why I can't call myself an atheist because one of them MIGHT be true.
judean-christian-islam are proof people will believe anything.
have you read them?have you passed even the simplest science courses?
one day it is literal word for word straight from gods lips and the next it is symbolic.

Please don't quote scripture at me as a source cannot prove itself and i have a word processor.
I can write better ones.



[edit on 24-11-2009 by the_grand_pooh-bah]

The reason is simple. Christianity is the religion most familiar to the atheists you encounter. Were you in a Hindu culture, the atheists would be denouncing Hinduism and leaving Christianity alone.

The atheists in the US and Europe live in predominately Christian countries. They are most familiar with the deficiencies of Christianity, simply because that's what they see most often. Every religion has its strengths and weaknesses, but we mostly concern ourselves with the weaknesses we see4 the most often.

I think that's the main reason. Another possible contributing factor is that Christianity tries to convert people to its religion. Often people (Christians) do this in an offensive way, giving Christianity a bad name. People think that these annoying people represent all of Christianity, which of course isn't true. However, it is enough to sour them on the whole religion.

reply to post by On the Edge

And why aren't you offering a different belief as a substitute? Are there any other beliefs out there worth dying for? If so,I'd like to hear them!

What the hell is wrong with you ? Why do you have to go through life feeling the need to die for something ?

I don't hate Christians.

I don't even hate what they do.

What I do take issue with is why 'they' do it.

All of the good works done by Christians and Christian organizations are done in the name of spreading the 'good word' and converting people to Christianity.

Well that effort presupposes some things...namely:

1. Christianity is better than any other religion.
2. Our way is superior to yours, hence you should want to be like us.
3. We hold the moral high-ground due to our message of love, compassion, understanding, and salvation.
4. You need to be saved because your way of life is sinful and leading you towards eternal suffering.

I don't know about you guys but I have a lot of problems with this...especially when you analyze the track record of the leaders of this organized religion over the past, well, any time frame really.

As I see it...

1. Christianity is not better than any other religion. It is just different.
2. Christians are not inherently superior. I believe many non-Christians are better at being Christians than most Christians. Especially the ultra-orthodox ones.
3. Every religion accepted as a religion by world's governments are at their cores compassionate, understanding, and preach love. Not just Christianity.
4. The concept of Hell destroys the message of Christianity. It should be done away with.

If Christianity was less focused on converting people, I suspect a lot of the anti-Christian rhetoric would just fade away.

reply to post by moocowman


I'm saying,if it comes down to being told to worship anyone other than the Lord,Jesus Christ,I would rather die.

Revelation says many will be beheaded for what they believe.

I'm saying,if it comes to that,so be it!

Luke 12:4-5 says,"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more...fear Him who after the killing has the power to throw you into Hell."

(I can just hear the howls that quote is going to bring!)

For all you atheists, you live your life how you want and leave people who want to feel something in there heart as christians, to live there lifes.

If you think you can really understand the universe, go ahead, and i am amazed, by some of the things man can do, just look at cern, when man comes together.

lol, i was going to go on a rant there, but i will leave it till later.

I think the premise of the OP is wrong.

It is Christianity that hates atheists, not so much vice-versa. Christianity hates a lot of things: gays, abortion, women, other religions, not being the top dog everywhere, even other versions of itself. And it acts on its hate in a myriad of ways: creating strangleholds on economic activities of its supposed enemies, using the laws to project their religion and views on all. Wherever it is truly dominant it tends to execute opponents.

Christians are also very annoying: they simply have to share their hate with everyone who doesn't hate the same things in the same way they do. I've never gone door-to-door with kids to promote my beliefs and insult the people who answer it, as many Christians have done at my door.

The problem is that Christianity offers the easy out: you can be a prick your entire life, cheat, lie, steal, rape, murder, torture, and hate until the very last moment, then be truly sorry, accept Christ, and all is forgiven. That's the belief system of a conqueror. If you pay attention to history, Christians have used the "poor persecuted us" excuse to slaughter non-Christians everywhere they went in the name of "protecting" the few pathetics they converted. The typical modus operandi was to send a missionary to preach peace, brotherhood, tolerance, and God's love until they could con a few into believing their story. Then they would demand economic and legal rights designed to disrupt the lifeways that preceded them. Intelligent leaders saw through the artifice and declined to commit economic or political suicide to placate them. At that point the "peace, tolerance, love, etc." went out the window and armed force would be used to force their ways upon everyone whether they wanted them or not. And as soon as they became a majority or in power they outlawed all other beliefs on pain of death.

Christianity is bogus: whenever I point out historical truths to Christians, they always tell me "Yes, but those aren't real Christians". To which I reply that if the behavior of the followers of a particular belief system in consistent in the majority, then THAT is what real practitioners are; Christians and Christianity are most definitely not what they advertise themselves to be. But all three main faiths (Islam and Judaism, too) stem from the same rotten root and share the same hypocrisies and hatreds.

Non-Christians don't hate Christianity so much as they fear it, because it has proven itself intolerant in the extreme countless times. There is nothing inherent in it that allows it to peacefully coexist with others: by it's very nature it needs, nay, it demands that all other beliefs must be destroyed.

My question to the OP is why does Christianity hate the world and all in it so much? Why doesn't it practice what it preaches?

reply to post by Muckster

As a non-religious Christian I expect no less.

This behaviour was anticipated 2000 years ago.

Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword." Matthew 10:34

It is the opposition that keeps Christianity alive...
...if there were no debate, the biblical manuscripts would be obscure museum pieces...
...if Christianity was ignored it would go away...
...but non-Christians too must fulfil the will of God even in their opposition...
...it is in the nature of those who don't have the Spirit to oppose it...
...it is as natural to them as breathing, they must do it...
...they think it is a declaration of their freedom but they are compelled to do it.

It is the same sun that soften wax and hardens clay.

Jesus also said "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you. Matthew 5:11-12

Opposition will continue as predicted and Christians will continue to rejoice...



[edit on 24/11/09 by troubleshooter]

Weird, it's almost like Christians were responsible for such great times as the Dark Ages and the Inquisition.

They STOPPED science for 1000 years for their gods sake!

And you wonder why people hate you? Look at your past!

And look at current times, Christians slaughtering Muslims, hmm... SOUNDS FAMILIAR DOESN'T IT!

[edit on 24-11-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by apacheman

It is Christianity that hates atheists, not so much vice-versa.

This is just wrong a large percentage posting to this thread have admited to it. So your're wrong. You can't even use the word hate and Christian in
the same sentence. If a Christian hates he can't truly be a Christian.

And you wonder why people hate you? Look at your past!

Need I say more?

Breakingwhatles

They STOPPED science for 1000 years for their gods sake

Who stopped science? I can give you so many examples of the
Bible being way ahead of science. In fact leading the way.



[edit on 24-11-2009 by randyvs]