Dark galaxy crashing into the Milky Way

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by JayinAR

 

In the article it says its a "cloud of hydrogen" with the size of a galaxy. From what I understand, its not an actual galaxy full of stars and planets. Just a huge mass of hydrogen.

Id like to think of it as a big source of fuel entering the galaxy.. it could be a positive thing, in terms of creation.

Good point. A huge influx of hydrogen could help keep our galaxy young in the "star formation" department.

As it is now, a star starts as hydrogen, but then fuses that hydrogen into heavier elements. After billions of years of star formation and star death, the galaxy would have more heavy elements and less hydrogen for future star formation.

reply to post by rattan1


Lets hope it happens soon. There is another galaxy called the Andromeda Galaxy, or M31, that is estimated to do the same thing. Currently it is blue shifting in our direction, and will hit us in another few billion years.

Since it's highly likely that I'll be around then, I think I'll spend all my time worrying about it now!!!

reply to post by rattan1


A facinating find OP. I don't know enough about all of this to make a guess at whats going on but I have to say it gives me the chills.

Would it not be interesting if this cloud would be going through the neighborhood in say 2012 and all our Star wars tech is really to shoot down incoming debris? While that does not seem likely given the vastness of space, its an interesting thought none the less.

Anyway just a small issue I like to point out when I see it. Dinosaurs are not extinct. They are very successful and you see them every day, perhaps you have one in your home or feed them in the park- they are Birds.



[edit on 23-11-2009 by Helmkat]

reply to post by rattan1


Not much point in being alarmed, it's not like there's anything anyone could do about it is there?

Not unless we have a time machine to escape into the past with, there really is nowhere else in the galaxy to run to!

What will be, will be.

Bit concerned about the 60-70 million year cycle though...65 million being when the Dino's went bye bye's!

It's rich though, that scientists and 'repeaters' in regards to alternative or Zero point energy (Vacuum energy) researchers, keep citing laws of physics prohibit it and so on, when they only understand a few measly percent of what the universe is made of!

As much as 70%, is a form of energy (they think) called 'Dark energy'...only they don't understand what it is, what form it takes, even if it is really energy...pretty much know nothing at all about it, yet still insist that energy researchers are wasting their time trying to tap into it!!

Typical really...'we don't know what it is or understand it, therefore no one else can either'...yeah right. More like they are terrified someone will get lucky in their workshop and show them all up.

Originally posted by rattan1
Bellow is a Wikipedia definition of Dark Galaxy:

A dark galaxy is a galaxy-sized object containing very few or no stars (hence 'dark'). Held together by dark matter, it may also contain gas and dust. No dark galaxy with a black hole as a center has yet been discovered.

The above states that it is all held together by Dark matter and we know very little about dark matter. I wonder if it can disturb the Oort cloud

I am also puzzled by the fact that it can rip through our galaxy without merging with it

They know NOTHING about dark matter.
Matter in galaxies is so scarce they may not really collide, but gravity and other influences will be felt. Still, this happens on a very large time scale. Hardly a spectacle to watch.

Originally posted by rattan1

"What's more, its trajectory suggests it punched through the disc of our galaxy once before, about 70 million years ago."

did we have any mass extinction 70M years ago??????

www.newscientist.c om
(visit the link for the full news article)

All the dinosaurs and many other groups of animals and plants became extinct around 65 / 70 Million yrs ago bc itt 'rained' meteorites on Earth for a long time. Earth was covered with dust clouds, possibly for years and years......

After that period the primates, split off from the ancestral insectivore. The beginning of 'pre-humans'.

If that's the cycle of the Cosmos there is nothing to do about it. It's silly to get worried because of this idea, it's not in our hands to change its course.

Originally posted by rattan1
Should we be worried about this.

Not in our lifetime...

Originally posted by rattan1
did we have any mass extinction 70M years ago??????

Galaxies crashing is absolutely not a cataclysmic event at our scale. Galaxies are mainly composed of... emptiness. So it is like two clouds crashing in each other. No explosion, no shockwave, nothing. And in the case of 2 galaxies crashing, a very very very low probability that 2 objects crash in each other (planets/sun).


Also about dark matter. First, dark matter is not the same as dark energy. Dark matter is a term used to name "matter" that we cannot see in space with the tools we have today. Because it's not reflecting light, because it is not dense enough, or any other reason we don't know yet. The thing with this dark matter is we THINK it exists -even if not seeing it- just because it is CONVENIENT to explain our universe. It is easier to invent dark matter than to rebuild the whole theory.

My guess is that there is no dark matter, no dark energy, and this universe will be perfectly explained if we completely change our theories. A good candidate is "the electric universe" theory.

In this article, a "Dark galaxy" referring to a hydrogen cloud is not a classical galaxy (no suns, no planets), so no doom here. We're just crashing in a cloud.

reply to post by space cadet


hidden egg... similar to a vessel inside our planet?

reply to post by SpaceGoatsFarts


thats like saying 2 black holes colliding do not interact in cataclysmic ways. Besides, a cloud of hydrogen that size would skew ecosystem balance on every planet in our galaxy so yes it could end badly

[edit on 23-11-2009 by guidanceofthe third kind]

reply to post by rattan1


With all the evil in the world, mass extinction and every scientific outlet within the New World Order saying what an impact the human race is on the planet - I have come to the realization that they want us to believe we all must die. Thats what "they" want and there is nothing to stop it.

I am going to enjoy life with my family and kids, because that is what it is really all about!

I will die with decency loving my family, and when the s*$# hits the fan I will be where I need to be. If there is nothing I can do to stop the coming hell, at least I will be with the ones I love. I quit caring 8 years ago, when a group of overly wealthy war mongers destroyed a major New York center without anyone really caring just to further their agenda!

It is all now just a game of control. To break up the bonds of family and turn brother against brother. I refuse to fall into that trap. UFO disclosure, war with Iran, North Korea nukes, Galaxies collide, political correctness for gaining power! Who cares


Live for the ones you love and support them now in anything they do. The powers that be love the negative energy and with it they are feeding the planet and its own demise, why feed it. Maybe if we all learn to love again we can reverse what is coming. As a collective we have more potential to change this planet with our minds than they do with their fed stories of dread, death and hate!

Live free or die!


[edit on 23-11-2009 by arizonascott]

Originally posted by rattan1

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by rattan1

 

Nice find! I wish the article was more explainitory, you know, for those like myself who don't understand why we can't just look up and see this happening, but, nonetheless, I enjoy knowing.

I also wish there were more explanation in the article. Surely other people like me would be alarmed by this article and more explanation is certainly needed. I am counting on some of the ATS experts here to shed some light on the matter.

Oh please give us break.

Next you will be worrying yourself to death because the sun will day expand into a red giant and envelop the earth, a guaranteed event.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Humans as we know them would have been extinct for millions of years before this event).

One of these days certain ATS people will learn to read scientific articles properly and not resort to paranoid rantings.

Originally posted by Melyanna Tengwesta

Originally posted by rattan1

"What's more, its trajectory suggests it punched through the disc of our galaxy once before, about 70 million years ago."

did we have any mass extinction 70M years ago??????

www.newscientist.c om
(visit the link for the full news article)

All the dinosaurs and many other groups of animals and plants became extinct around 65 / 70 Million yrs ago bc itt 'rained' meteorites on Earth for a long time. Earth was covered with dust clouds, possibly for years and years......

After that period the primates, split off from the ancestral insectivore. The beginning of 'pre-humans'.

If that's the cycle of the Cosmos there is nothing to do about it. It's silly to get worried because of this idea, it's not in our hands to change its course.

"All" the Dinosaurs did not go extinct- see my comment about birds above. Most large Animal species went extinct, that is the way most extinction events go down, whoever is the big boy at the time no matter what "type" you are take a hit. Most smaller lifeforms make it through and then evolve to fill the niches left empty by the big boys. The cycle though is as you point out plain to see. If we don't kill ourselves off first we will someday have to deal with an "extinction event" not of our own making.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by JayinAR

 

In the article it says its a "cloud of hydrogen" with the size of a galaxy. From what I understand, its not an actual galaxy full of stars and planets. Just a huge mass of hydrogen.

Id like to think of it as a big source of fuel entering the galaxy.. it could be a positive thing, in terms of creation.

Good point. A huge influx of hydrogen could help keep our galaxy young in the "star formation" department.

As it is now, a star starts as hydrogen, but then fuses that hydrogen into heavier elements. After billions of years of star formation and star death, the galaxy would have more heavy elements and less hydrogen for future star formation.

A quick question, Ive been using WWT for some time now, anout a year, and Ive noticed in the Hydrogen View it has all turned orange, I am sure it was not like that not so long ago, do you have any ideas on this ??

Well, let's see. If my logic serves me right or if I read this correctly a Dark Galaxy is impacting us and it is 50 million light years away?

So basically if we see it impacting us now that means that it happened 50 million years ago right? So it already happened..

That is of course if I gather correctly.

reply to post by rattan1


Nah, not to be concerned about. The actual collisions between galaxies take millions of years, and there's so much space between stars that most don't collide with each other.

As the article states - most are dwarf galaxies, and so whoever lives inside those galaxies colliding with a monster like the milky way would have more reason for concern. The Milky way will likely envelope the dwarf galaxies into its disk.

[edit on 23-11-2009 by john124]

reply to post by InfaRedMan

Dark matter is only theoretical... not factual! For all we know, it's just as likely to be a cloaked Spaghetti Monster. Interesting nonetheless!

Sorry old friend, but this is not necessarily true, there is plenty of evidence for the existence of dark matter.

NASA Finds Direct Proof of Dark Matter

Dark matter and normal matter have been wrenched apart by the tremendous collision of two large clusters of galaxies. The discovery, using NASA's Chandra X-ray Observatory and other telescopes, gives direct evidence for the existence of dark matter.

"This is the most energetic cosmic event, besides the Big Bang, which we know about," said team member Maxim Markevitch of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics in Cambridge, Mass.

These observations provide the strongest evidence yet that most of the matter in the universe is dark. Despite considerable evidence for dark matter, some scientists have proposed alternative theories for gravity where it is stronger on intergalactic scales than predicted by Newton and Einstein, removing the need for dark matter. However, such theories cannot explain the observed effects of this collision.

"A universe that's dominated by dark stuff seems preposterous, so we wanted to test whether there were any basic flaws in our thinking," said Doug Clowe of the University of Arizona at Tucson, and leader of the study. "These results are direct proof that dark matter exists."
NASA

John Roach
for National Geographic News
August 22, 2006

A team of researchers has found the first direct proof for the existence of dark matter, the mysterious and almost invisible substance thought to make up almost a quarter of the universe.
National Geographic

Hubble eyes further proof of dark matter

New images from the Hubble Space Telescope show further conclusive proof of the existence of dark matter. Reported are the first images where the dark matter has a structure different then the gases and galaxies in the cluster it was discovered in.

We at Nobel Intent have reported on dark matter many times in the past, including some fairly conclusive evidence that it does indeed exist. Today, new images from the Hubble Space Telescope are being released that contain some of the strongest evidence to date of the existence of dark matter—the source of the extra gravity theorized to hold the universe together. By examining the cluster ZwCl0024+1652, astronomers discovered a distinct ring of dark matter.

Dark matter ring "This is the first time we have detected dark matter as having a unique structure that is different from the gas and galaxies in the cluster," said astronomer M. James Jee of Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, USA. The discovery of the ring may be the strongest evidence to date of the existence of dark matter in our universe. What makes this finding important is that the dark matter is so far separated from the hot gas and galaxies that exist in ZwCl0024+1652: it has a unique structure that is separate from the surrounding matter. According to Dr. Jee, this presents an ideal opportunity to study dark matter, "by seeing a dark matter structure that is not traced by galaxies and hot gas, we can study how it behaves differently from normal matter." The ring of dark matter can clearly be seen in the blue map of the cluster's dark matter distribution (the image is credited to NASA, ESA, M.J. Jee and H. Ford of Johns Hopkins University).
ARS Technica

I highly recommend to go back and read the article in Wired UK regarding the Xenon100 experiment

A scientific consensus has emerged that dark matter makes up more than 80 per cent of all the matter in the entire universe. What it's actually made of, nobody knows. But dark matter might not keep its identity secret much longer. In mines around the world and deep within mountains, teams are now racing to snare the beast in strange traps built from vats of liquid xenon, ultrapure germanium crystals and lead from medieval roofs (it's less radioactive, so is better for screening out background particles).
Wired UK

Dark matter exists and with any luck, we will know what it is made of sometime in 2010.

~Edit: BB code


[edit on 11/23/2009 by AlienChaser]

I may be way off base here (just a bit out of my forte), but something occurred to me when I read the OP:

2012 is the time when we align with the Galactic Center, and i believe there are some planetary alignments in our solar system as well. Now we have a million solar masses adding to that galactic mass we will be aligning with.

Would that be enough to appreciably notice a difference in the gravitational forces we will experience, that theoretically peak on 12-21-2012?

Not doomsdaying, just asking.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by malcr

Originally posted by rattan1

Originally posted by space cadet
reply to post by rattan1

 

One of these days certain ATS people will learn to read scientific articles properly and not resort to paranoid rantings.

What fun would that be? People wouldn't be able to spew important key words like dark matter and dark energy and totally misinterpret what an article was saying. What we can hope for is that news of a scientific find will only be posted by those who are not too lazy to have learned the fundamentals upon which these theories are built. I wonder if the OP and all those who posted misinformation have ever read and understand the math (actually the differential and integral calculus ) used in Principia and Einstein's 1915 (published in 1920) paper on General Relativity. Until thiese people can do a Lorenze transformation with respect to these fundamental particles, they should refrain from spreading pseudosciebtific woo.
But that won't happen. It's great fun to be Chicken Little.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I may be way off base here (just a bit out of my forte), but something occurred to me when I read the OP:

2012 is the time when we align with the Galactic Center, and i believe there are some planetary alignments in our solar system as well. Now we have a million solar masses adding to that galactic mass we will be aligning with.

Would that be enough to appreciably notice a difference in the gravitational forces we will experience, that theoretically peak on 12-21-2012?

Not doomsdaying, just asking.

TheRedneck

eah, about17 parsecs off base. If you had done some further reading you might have noticed that the mass won't be here until about the year 30,002,009 give or take a few millenia.

reply to post by 4nsicphd

OK, I will admit that I only read the article referenced in the OP, but it did say

In 2008, a cloud of hydrogen with a mass then estimated at about 1 million suns was found to be colliding with our galaxy. Now it appears the object is massive enough to be a galaxy itself.

Source: www.newscientist.com...

Did I misread that? Or was it shown to be false? "found to be colliding" sounds to me like it is actually in the same area of space as the Milky Way. Of course, it is admittedly a media explanation, not a scientific journal entry.

Not trying to be argumentative, but your response has me puzzled.

TheRedneck