Hemorrhagic flu in US, says Polk County Coroner, deaths under-reported

reply to post by On the Edge


early on I tried to compare the early sequences of the 1918 flu with the 2009 but I had little success. I believed since April that this had something to do with the 1918 flu resurrection. Now I am just too scared to really admit how much of a reality it can be.
Has anyone seen the sequences compared to the 1918 flu? Are they avaiblable yet?

reply to post by marg6043


You're welcome! At least it's a start.

Please share your findings when you can!


ECOPARITY: You may be able to do something with this?
(Forgive my ignorance referring to DNA earlier,....that was off the top of my "unscientific" head!)

reply to post by dreamseeker


The only thing that I have found out in my research by the CDC is that as earlier as 1800s when the first infections started sporadically it was a mixture of swine flu and bird flu going around.

Actually during the 1600 influenza used to be yearly no seasonal.

The results of those studies were done many years later as early as the 50s.

So actually is been a lot to studies and testing been done on the 1918 virus for many years, with the advances in medicine and genetics you can only imagine what this monsters testing can do.

Ya gotta find sources not related to any gov't-sponsored "science".

Just like the top is coming off the phony science behind global warming,there's a lid on this stuff,too.(Makes me wonder if Evolution can't be far behind?!)

I'd check this stuff out in the realm of bioweapons. (Sure looks like a war is being waged to me.) Yeah,they say things are "accidentally leaked". Who believes that? Follow the trail of dead scientists that were privvy to inside information. Follow the money/contracts. Who are the Whistleblowers still around to listen to? Do you believe Jane Burgermeister ?

If I can get my notes organized,I'll see what more I can add.

Originally posted by dreamseeker

early on I tried to compare the early sequences of the 1918 flu with the 2009 but I had little success.

Has anyone seen the sequences compared to the 1918 flu? Are they avaiblable yet?

Not a specific full comparison, just snippets of info in papers analyzing the new H1N1v, like

The current S-OIV (swine-origin influenza A (H1N1) virus) lineage carries three gene segments that share, with the human seasonal virus, a common decent from the 1918 H1N1 virus. Indeed, whereas 1918 influenza A (H1N1) virus likely emerged sumultaniously from birds to humans and swine, S-OIV probably emerged from swine to humans. This was likely the result of a reassortment between two influeza A (H1N1) swine viruses. These two viruses were actually the products of at least four independant avian-to-mamalian cros-species transmission. During this process of evolution there were at least four reassortments of gene segments among avian, human and swind-adapted viruses. [12] New England Journal of Medicine;361:279-85

and

Genomic analysis indicates that it is closely related to common reassorment swine influenza A viruses that have been isolated in North America, Europe, and Asia in the last 20 years. [4-6]

4. The origin of the recent swine influenza A (H1N1) virus infecting humans. Euro Surveill 2009;14: 19193
5. Virus Investigation Team. Emergence of a novel swine-origine influenza A (H1N1) Virus Investigation Team. Emergence of a novel swine-origin influenza A (H1N1) virus in humans. New England Journal of Medine 2009;360:2605-15
6. Antigenic and genetic charachteristics of swine-origin 2009 A (H1N1) influenza viruses circulating in humans.Science 2009;325:197-201.

and

Sequence analyses
Preliminary studies showed that six genomic segments of the
virus, including the HA, were related to swine viruses from North
America and the remaining two (coding for the NA and M proteins)
were from swine viruses isolated in Europe and Asia [8,9].

From papers like these:
The novel influenza A (H1N1) virus pandemic: An update[PDF]

A novel H1N1 virus causes the first pandemic of the 21st century [PDF]

and
In vitro and in vivo characterization of new swine-origin H1N1 influenza viruses[PDF]

Virological Surveillance of human cases of influenza A (H1N1v) virus in Italy: Preliminary Results



[edit on 11/25/09 by makeitso]

reply to post by On the Edge


That story is bogus: the ability to manipulate virii din't exist in 1918.

Hell, science barely knew they existed then. All the technology required wasn't invented yet. These are FACTS, not speculation, anyone can look them up and verify it.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that there are a lot of bodies of 1918 flu victims buried in what used to be permafrost, but has now melted? That means the 1918 virus is coming out of hibernation with the melt, along with god knows what else. I suppose it is even possible, not likely, but possible, that the 1492-1500 flu virii might still be frozen somewhere up north, the ones that killed huge numbers of Native Americans after contact.

While I agree that that a few years back virologists took samples to try to figure it out, and I worried about it at the time, ihat isn't the only possible or even most likely vector.

Eco, thanks for the chart and your efforts to keep some sense in this. I truly appreciate all efforts to maintain scientific integrity.

Proof, people, proof, please, to back up your claims.

reply to post by apacheman


In 2003 US Army scientists created ‘Spanish Flu’ virus in the laboratory. According to a report at the time by the watchdog group, The Sunshine Project, which monitors biological and chemical weapons research of the United States Government issued a statement that "The 'Spanish Flu' influenza virus that killed 20-40 million people in 1918 is currently under reconstruction. Several genes of the extraordinarily lethal 1918 flu virus have been isolated and introduced into contemporary flu strains. These proved to be lethal for mice, while virus constructs with genes from a current flu virus types had hardly any effect. These experiments may easily be abused for military purposes, but provide little benefit from a medical or public health point of view."

They continued, "The 1918 Spanish Flu was highly infectious and – in comparison to contemporary flu viruses – killed a very high percentage of those infected, including many younger people. The Spanish Flu alone caused the medium life expectancy in the US in 1918 to drop by 10 years. Hence, flu viruses are perceived today as a serious biological warfare threat. Just two weeks ago, a 15 million dollar research grant was awarded in the US to develop protective measures especially against a bioterrorist attack with flu viruses."


Did you read any of the atricle I posted? And if so,are you saying it raised no red flags in your mind whatsoever?

Gibb's paper was complete back in May, I wonder why he waited until now to finally publish it?

I love how people see the facts and then just go into hyper space with the conspiracy immediately.

Gibbs is not saying the current virus was mixed together in a lab and set free. There's one component of the virus' evolution that even the paper I posted thinks came out of a vaccine lab accident but that accident would had to have occurred between 1970 and 1977. If you folks want to believe that someone did that on purpose way back then in order to create the pandemic of today then no amount of science education in the Universe is going to help you.

As usual people will cherry pick what they think supports the weirdness but will ignore the metric ton of evidence that says they are reading it wrong.

People should read the paper, even Gibb's says "while a laboratory origin for the OSI-v isolate (the 1977 part I mentioned) cannot be ruled out a natural origin is far more likely."

He submitted the paper for peer review back in May and the entire scientific community rejected it because of the way it was written.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by On the Edge


Have you read any of the numerous times I and several others have patiently explained exactly why the flu virus is useless as a military bioweapon?

It is uncontrollable. Fire is a weapon of war, too, but no general would set fire to the entire world as a strategy. To be useful as a weapon the weapon must not be indiscriminate, you need to be able to target it specifically. It is impossible to do this with flu virii because they mutate too fast and too unpredictably.

Damn, I'm tired of debunking this idea. It is obvious and simple to prove how useless it is as a weapon with a little thought. Bioweapons are made from things with DNA, not RNA, things that are predictable and controllable.

reply to post by nikiano


Yeah we know it's manmade. Who and why was it introduced into the population?
And it's not Dr. Evil.

latest from China:

www.google.com...

China reports 8 cases of mutated swine flu virus By GILLIAN WONG (AP) – 5 hours ago


BEIJING — China has detected eight people infected with mutated forms of the swine flu virus, a health official said Wednesday, but flu drugs and vaccines still work against it. Flu viruses mutate easily, and scientists have been closing watching for signs that the swine flu virus is changing, which could make it more dangerous or more infectious. Shu Yuelong, director of the Chinese National Influenza Center, told the official Xinhua News Agency that the mutated swine flu virus found in China was in "isolated" cases in the mainland, is not resistant to drugs and can be prevented by vaccines. The report did not provide any more details, such as when the cases were detected and if they were linked to any deaths. Calls to the National Influenza Center rang unanswered while the Health Ministry did not immediately respond to a faxed list of questions. The World Health Organization's spokeswoman in Beijing, Vivian Tan, said the agency had no information on the cases mentioned in the Xinhua report Wednesday. On Friday, the WHO said it was looking into two deaths and one severe case linked to variant swine flu in Norway, after that country's Institute of Public Health announced that the mutation could possibly cause more severe disease because it infects tissue deeper in the airway than usual. The same mutation has been found in both fatal and mild cases elsewhere, including in Brazil, Japan, Mexico, Ukraine, and the United States, said the WHO. Tan said the agency is aware of three such cases in China that occurred in June and July that were similar to the cases being investigated in Norway. "We are concerned, but realize that influenza viruses, including A/H1N1, are relatively unstable and change easily, especially as they infect more people," Tan told The Associated Press. "Some mutations can have minimal effects on how a virus functions, while other mutations can create important changes with significant public health impact." China's Health Ministry said Wednesday that 51 swine flu deaths were reported last week, bringing the total number of fatalities in the country to 104. Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

Originally posted by ecoparity
Gibb's paper was complete back in May, I wonder why he waited until now to finally publish it?

I love how people see the facts and then just go into hyper space with the conspiracy immediately.

Gibbs is not saying the current virus was mixed together in a lab and set free. There's one component of the virus' evolution that even the paper I posted thinks came out of a vaccine lab accident but that accident would had to have occurred between 1970 and 1977. If you folks want to believe that someone did that on purpose way back then in order to create the pandemic of today then no amount of science education in the Universe is going to help you.

As usual people will cherry pick what they think supports the weirdness but will ignore the metric ton of evidence that says they are reading it wrong.

People should read the paper, even Gibb's says "while a laboratory origin for the OSI-v isolate (the 1977 part I mentioned) cannot be ruled out a natural origin is far more likely."

He submitted the paper for peer review back in May and the entire scientific community rejected it because of the way it was written.

[edit on 25-11-2009 by ecoparity]

His peers may have rejected it because of the way it was written, but as it turns out....he was right. That's why it was finally released now.....because he is right. And you can only hide the truth for so long.

By the way, rejecting an scientific article for the "way it is written" is a common excuse that peer reviewed journals make when they don't want publish certain content! Oh, sorry, it's not written well.

Do you know how many ridiculous drug studies I've seen that show up in peer reviewed journals that aren't written well?? LOTS of them. But, they have the money to advertise in the journal, so it gets printed. "Peer reviewed" journals should be called "peer advertised journals".




[edit on 25-11-2009 by nikiano]

I've practically begged people to just go do some research. Go read up on the virus and the technologies involved in even attempting to do what people are claiming is being done.

Messing with a virus is not like cooking. You don't just mix ingrediants together and get what you want. The "oven" in this case is the millions of hosts the virus has to pass through and mutate in. These mutations are completely random and are not something we have such fine control over as to be able to manufacture a new 1918 pandemic virus.

The building blocks, the prior strains found in samples taken from people, pigs, ferrets, birds are all known and kept in a database. "If" someone tried to create a new 1918 pandemic or re-release a working version of the stored samples it would be immediately obvious.

To a virologist, the virus he or she is looking at would have parts on it that have not been seen in nature for a hundred years. Those parts would stick out like a sore thumb.

The fact that the 1918 virus was able to evolve on its own, in nature with no manipulation from humans means it can happen again and most likely, will.

That's what everyone is worried about. Even though we've been incredibly lucky so far this virus has all the tools it needs to do another 1918 run and wipe out 5 percent of the population again. There are various reasons why we think it hasn't yet and unfortunately all of those are just a matter of time.

Everyone I know of is hoping this thing passes without going critical. Rather than giggling like village idiots and passing judgment on others perhaps we should all just be damn grateful if that comes to pass. We may deserve to be taught a lesson in humility by nature but I still hope it doesn't happen.

Originally posted by apacheman
reply to post by On the Edge

 

Have you read any of the numerous times I and several others have patiently explained exactly why the flu virus is useless as a military bioweapon?

It is uncontrollable. Fire is a weapon of war, too, but no general would set fire to the entire world as a strategy. To be useful as a weapon the weapon must not be indiscriminate, you need to be able to target it specifically. It is impossible to do this with flu virii because they mutate too fast and too unpredictably.

Damn, I'm tired of debunking this idea. It is obvious and simple to prove how useless it is as a weapon with a little thought. Bioweapons are made from things with DNA, not RNA, things that are predictable and controllable.

I did some research into Hitler around 1918 I couldn't find anything about him ever having the flu back then. What I did find out that there was a war going and in !918 he had Mustard Gas sprayed in his face. O.K. during the years 1918 -1919 they were fighting a Revolution following WW1 in Germany. I'm thinking that many of them survived that flu pandemic because that mustard gas and whatever else they were using that these chemicals prevented that flu from spreading.

This was before Hitler came into power but him and so many others just as evil as him survived and they all later on worked together. I find nothing mentioned about that flu back then, unless I missed something.
en.wikipedia.org...

Okay,well forgive me for being gullible here then,but why does it keep being brought up?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It’s a big universe and amazing coincidences do happen.
But the coincidence of the same genes occurring in the “Novel” A/2009/H1N1 virus which supposedly arose without known precedent on a pig farm in Veracruz, Mexico in April, 2009 and
~ Baxter, Novartis and GSK entering patents for the novel virus, which did not yet exist, between 2006 and 2008
~ Novartis’ A/2009/H1N1 vaccine being pulled from the shelves by the FDA in February, 2009 for “labeling inconsistencies”
~ “Lost” pandemic genes from the 1918 “Spanish” Flu (which was not Spanish at all, but born and bred in the good ole’ USA in the heart of Kansas at Ft. Riley) appearing in the “Novel” virus. That means, if we are to believe the official story of the “Novel” virus appearing out of nowhere, that the genetic sequence lost to the world after the end of the Spanish Influenza Pandemic (which killed nearly 50 million people world wide) suddenly reappeared in the “Novel A/2009/H1N1 virus, whole and in tact, by the magic of re-assortment, or natural selection or the roll of the genetic dice or the luck of the viral draw. Oddly, that most deadly of genetic sequences, lost to the world until a frozen Alute woman was exhumed and deprived of some of her contaminated lung tissue, was recreated in 2005 after nearly a decade of painstaking, US Government-sponsored genetic sleuthing to find and then recreate it by Dr. J. K. Taubenberger and associates and now just happens, HAPPENS, mind you, to show up in the brand new, never before seen “Novel” A/2009/H1N1 virus. ______beforeitsnews/story/0000000000000552. WOW! Somebody thinks we are collectively dumber than the dumbest rock.

www.healthfreedomusa.org...



MOD NOTE: Posting work written by others.

[edit on 26-11-2009 by TheBorg]

reply to post by On the Edge


Can you post the sources from which you are getting your information? I see more than a few misconceptions and I'd like to see if it is the source material or the reading of the source.

The patents you refer to I believe were for a pandemic vaccine which was actually focused on an avian flu, I'll wait to review your source material before wasting time going further into that for now, however.

The current H1N1 virus is not identical to the 1918 virus. They have similar compositions and effects but the current virus is not in any way a release of the 1918 samples.

The swine flu was not "lost to the World", if anything you could say just the samples of the 1918 version were buried away in the bodies of victims. After a number of close call pandemics involving swine flu the scientific community was very concerned that a repeat of 1918 was coming and felt it would be worthwhile to exhume samples for study. We did not have a full understanding of the 1918 virus at that point.

The 1918 flu pandemic was the worst in known history, new pandemics were coming along made of the same flu variant so it was thought the study of those samples would better prepare us for the next one. Every theory about the purpose of that project being to develop a flu based bioweapon has sprung from the imagination of people who don't know enough about bioweapons or the flu virus.

reply to post by ecoparity


I did put the references at the end of my posts. There are probably some links there to follow!

I've looked through some of my notes,but this was the only one I could come up with. Most of the info I have deals with the quarantine aspects and laws that take away our freedoms,along with other vaccination horror stories.

The 1918 thing only came up a few times. You have as much chance of finding things on the internet as I do! Sorry I can't offer more!

I just edited out the reference I had posted....it wasn't that good. Besides,since it was "biblical" in nature,most people would write that off right from the start.(I wouldn't,but I'll respect your purely scientific investigation,without clouding up the waters!)

[edit on 25-11-2009 by On the Edge]

Here's just the tip of the iceberg.

I haven't been looking into this as intently as you may be doing,because past the surface information I don't know what to look for,since I'm not so scientific as to know the right questions to seek answers for.

I had assumed others had come across it as well and that it wasn't anything new!

I'm not going off the deep-end about it! Any man-made bioweapon is abhorrent to me and is a bad thing right from the start!

Maybe if you find something worthwhile you can even start a new thread about it?

Here you go,for starters!

crimesofthestate.blogspot.com...

www.globalresearch.ca...

www.conspiracyplanet.com...

www.scribd.com...

www.microbiologybytes.com...
(You've got to scroll down a ways on this one!)

reply to post by On the Edge


Look, I'm not trying to attack you I'm trying to help you. I'm afraid the sources you're getting your information from are not being accurate.

Those are all blogs with an agenda of conspiracy or vaccine rejection and they are all making huge mistakes in the comprehension of the flu virus, the composition of it and the origin of it. These are basically editorials espousing people's opinions and they are misleading you and everyone else on quite a few scientific points of fact, even setting aside the conspiracy and vaccine rejection angles.

The first post I took issue with isn't even your words, it's a copy and paste from the blog so don't take it personally, the misconceptions listed aren't even your own, they're someone else's.

The only scientific source you posted was the last one, (microbiologybytes) and it doesn't have anything in it related to the claims from your post.

If you're interested, here are a couple of scientific papers from medical journals that might help you understand the facts about the nuts and bolts of this thing:

H1N1 Basics

New England Medical Journal - History of H1N1


[edit on 26-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by ecoparity


Have you seen this yet?

D225G Swine flu mutation - Same receptor as 1918 Spanish flu pandemic found in Ukraine virus

According to analysis of genetic testing done by the World Health Organization, the Ukraine flu virus is an H1N1 mutation that is similar to the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic.

...

The H1N1 mutation in the Ukraine also includes the symptoms of bleeding in the lungs, and has been described as an infection that completely destroys the lungs.