Hemorrhagic flu in US, says Polk County Coroner, deaths under-reported

reply to post by Ishmaael


It's more serious than just a little bleeding from the lungs - the coroners in Ukraine and Iowa are describing "melted lungs". Here's a Russian language article (use google translate) which has some incorrect details but he gives an in-depth description of what he's seeing during the autopsies:

And once the virus enters the lungs – hemorrhaging begins immediately in the acinus. A continuous hemorrhage … It takes several hours.

In the blood fibrin is formed, and from it – giolinovaya membrane, resembling a plastic bag. It envelops the acinus, and the person breathes in oxygen, but it is not transferred to the tissues. And people just gasp.

There is a cardio-pulmonary insufficiency and cardiogenic shock. People die of cardiogenic shock.

And there is no pneumonia. Pneumonia – an inflammation, which is treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics cannot help at any stage. There should be absolutely different treatment.

Professor Bachinski, Ukraine's Top Medical Examiner

[edit on 23-11-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by Kailassa


The scaremongering about the swine flu is getting people all looking for anything that happens around and weird by hyper up news of deaths to think that is some mutation into a monster that is going to kill us all.

First of all swine flu is not the 1918 flu that cause so many death due to many environmental and human conditions at the time, 1918 was more linked to symptoms of Ebola, if any case of Ebola symptoms appears in the US then the government would not be so lie back as its right now, Ebola is fatal.

Swine flu has been around for decades infecting people without even been acknowledge until 1976, when it was time for money making by the big pharma and cash on it.

By CDC statistics swine flu has infected over 22 million of people in the US, and we don't have mass graves to call it a pandemic, but the CDC had to go back to April to scrape for pneumonia death cases to account for the almost 5 thousand deaths so far.

That is why I keep telling that what is killing is the pneumonia that in most cases is going untreated because you can get pneumonia with or without swine flu and is growing problem in the US.

Statistics show that 5 to 10 million people contract pneumonia in the nation every year without swine flu to help and seasonal flu side effects also affect pneumonia.

With 50 to 70 thousand deaths a year alone.

Is very clear that Pneumonia side effects if untreated causes swelling of the brain and the hart, causes edema and lungs to fill with phlegm in chronic untreated cases the lungs will fill with pus and abscess that will bleed into the lungs.

And that is what I have researched so far.

reply to post by marg6043


So why are young, healthy adults and children dying of pneumonia in such high numbers around the World then?

How is a bacterial infection spreading across the entire globe and killing the very people who should survive it while only killing a few of the elderly?

An excerpt from the book "The Purple Death", a historic writing of the 1918 Swine Flu Pandemic.

As victims struggled to clear their airways of the bloody froth that poured from their lungs, their bodies started to turn blue from the lack of oxygen, a condition known as violaceous heliotrope cyanosis. “They’re as blue as huckleberries and spitting blood,” one New York City physician told a colleague.

U.S. Army medics noted that this was “not the dusky pallid blueness that one is accustomed to in failing pneumonia, but rather [a] deep blueness…an indigo blue color.” The hue was so dark that one physician confessed that “it is hard to distinguish the colored men from the white.”

“It is only a matter of a few hours then until death comes,” recalled another physician, “and it is simply a struggle for air until they suffocate.” They drowned in their own bloody secretions.

“It wasn’t always that quick, either,” one historian adds. “And along the way, you had symptoms like fingers and genitals turning black, and people reporting being able to literally smell the body decaying before the patient died.” “When you’re ill like that you don’t care,” recalls one flu survivor, now 100 years old. “You don’t care if you live or die.”

Purple Death

I could switch the descriptions from the current pandemic with the 1918 pandemic and they would still fit. They are exactly alike. . .

I won't even post the contents of this next article here. It's just too horrible and too frightening. If you want to know just how bad the pandemic really was, how bad this one could very well be and why people aren't aware now then go here. (Content warning - graphic and disturbing).

[edit on 23-11-2009 by ecoparity]

Signs and symptoms of bubonic plague include:

■Buboes — swollen, painful, warm lymph nodes
■Sudden onset of fever and chills
■Headache
■Fatigue or malaise
■Muscle aches
Septicemic plague
Septicemic plague occurs when plague bacteria multiply in your bloodstream. If septicemic plague occurs as a complication of bubonic plague, buboes may be present.

Signs and symptoms include:

■Fever and chills
■Abdominal pain, diarrhea and vomiting
■Bleeding from your mouth, nose or rectum, or under your skin
■Shock
■Blackening and death of tissue (gangrene) in your extremities, most commonly your fingers, toes and nose
Pneumonic plague
Pneumonic plague — which can occur as a complication of another type of plague or by inhaling infectious droplets coughed into the air by a person or animal — is the least common form of plague. But it's also the most rapidly fatal. Early signs and symptoms, which generally occur within a few hours to a few days after inhaling contaminated droplets, include:

■High fever
■Weakness
■Signs of pneumonia, including chest pain, difficulty breathing and a cough with bloody sputum
■Nausea and vomiting
Pneumonic plague progresses rapidly and may cause respiratory failure and shock within two days of infection. If antibiotic treatment isn't initiated within a day after signs and symptoms first appear, the infection is likely to be fatal.

I don't know why but I still stand by what I think is killing people in the Ukraine, but it sounds and smells like pneumonic plague and Ukraine is not shy of outbreak of it.

www.mayoclinic.com...=symptoms

I wonder why after the virus in Ukraine was credited 100% to the pneumonic plague now news are coming all over that is some monster mutation of swine flu.

Ukrainian News Agency "Fraza" reported that, according to informed sources, "it has been confirmed 100 % Pneumonic Plague in Ukraine".

The Agency asserts that "the head physician of the medical institutions has sent out an informal disposal - not to sow panic, to refute the information about the plague, and to speak only of swine influenza".

www.nowpublic.com...

reply to post by marg6043

Hi Marg. Well, yes, this very well could be the reemergence of the 1918 flu. Alot of us have been following this closely, since MSM will not have theinformation until post-incident like WHO and the CDC we are gathering facts that show trends faster than most agencies can disseminate it.
This isn't a reason to panic or yell fearmongering, only information to help prepare for the rough winter ahead.

WHY IS THIS BEING LINKED TO THE UKRAINE????

You say "they describe melted lungs," but then proceed to cite only a Russian article about the Ukraine.

Show me how this incident in Iowa is related to teh Ukraine in any way besides the coincidence of bloody lungs- which, if you read my above post, is not nearly evidence enough.

reply to post by marg6043


People in Ukraine thought it was pneumonia based on the symptoms they were seeing. They didn't know the swine flu could do what it was doing.

The translation software turned the phrase "a plague of pneumonia", as in thousands and thousands of cases of "pneumonia" into "pneumonic plague".

We've had several people here on ATS who speak the language clarify that for us many times over in the Ukraine thread.

It was a translation mistake, that's all.

reply to post by ecoparity


Because if you look at all the diseases around they all have something in common, the development of pneumonia.

CDC Estimates of 2009 H1N1 Influenza Cases, Hospitalizations and Deaths in the United States, April – October 17, 2009•CDC estimates that between 14 million and 34 million cases of 2009 H1N1 occurred between April and October 17, 2009. The mid-level in this range is about 22 million people infected with 2009 H1N1.

•CDC estimates that between about 63,000 and 153,000 2009 H1N1-related hospitalizations occurred between April and October 17, 2009. The mid-level in this range is about 98,000 H1N1-related hospitalizations.

•CDC estimates that between about 2,500 and 6,000 2009 H1N1-related deaths occurred between April and October 17, 2009. The mid-level in this range is about 3,900 2009 H1N1-related deaths.

By CDC standard Swine flu has proven so far to be milder than the regular flu.

www.cdc.gov...

Even the CDC resarch and studies of the 1918 pandemic and later outbrakes show that we are having milder cases of the swine flu infection, viruses just doesn't go away they change and people become more immune to them

By the early 1990s, 75 years of research had failed to answer a most basic question about the 1918 pandemic: why was it so fatal? No virus from 1918 had been isolated, but all of its apparent descendants caused substantially milder human disease. Moreover, examination of mortality data from the 1920s suggests that within a few years after 1918, influenza epidemics had settled into a pattern of annual epidemicity associated with strain drifting and substantially lowered death rates. Did some critical viral genetic event produce a 1918 virus of remarkable pathogenicity and then other critical genetic event occur soon after the 1918 pandemic to produce an attenuated H1N1 virus?

In 1995, a scientific team identified archival influenza autopsy materials collected in the autumn of 1918 and began the slow process of sequencing small viral RNA fragments to determine the genomic structure of the causative influenza virus (10). These efforts have now determined the complete genomic sequence of 1 virus and partial sequences from 4 others. The primary data from the above studies (11–17) and a number of reviews covering different aspects of the 1918 pandemic have recently been published (18–20) and confirm that the 1918 virus is the likely ancestor of all 4 of the human and swine H1N1 and H3N2 lineages, as well as the "extinct" H2N2 lineage. No known mutations correlated with high pathogenicity in other human or animal influenza viruses have been found in the 1918 genome, but ongoing studies to map virulence factors are yielding interesting results. The 1918 sequence data, however, leave unanswered questions about the origin of the virus (19) and about the epidemiology of the pandemic.

www.cdc.gov...





[edit on 23-11-2009 by marg6043]

ecoparity

I tell you I just don't want the Ukraine "mystery" to be nothing but a hype of something we know and are familiar with like pneumonia plague,rather is been too much speculation and conspiracies going rampant, Is OK to be prepare for any eventuality, but we live in different times, better health care at least in our neck of the woods, sad that many developing countries are not so lucky and even a small outbroke of diseases can cause so much damage.

But since the swine flu big pharma and WHO claim pandemic news are not clear, facts has been sugar coated and hyper up and we are not getting the real facts about what is happening, too much money and links with big pharma by our own government the CDC and WHO.

I hate to see how people are getting scare every time something "different or weird" is popping around in the news.

Sad.

reply to post by ecoparity


Is ok to post all information that is related of what is going on with the swine flu, see the thing that we are forgetting is that the 1918 pandemic was global but the cases of it were on going even earlier than that and started as earlier as the late 1800 but they were sporadic and isolated the great war and the movement of people made the 1918 virus spread more easily.

At the beginning of other "off season" influenza pandemics, successive distinct waves within a year have not been reported. The 1889 pandemic, for example, began in the late spring of 1889 and took several months to spread throughout the world, peaking in northern Europe and the United States late in 1889 or early in 1890. The second recurrence peaked in late spring 1891 (more than a year after the first pandemic appearance) and the third in early 1892 (21). As was true for the 1918 pandemic, the second 1891 recurrence produced of the most deaths. The 3 recurrences in 1889–1892, however, were spread over >3 years, in contrast to 1918–1919, when the sequential waves seen in individual countries were typically compressed into ≈8–9 months.

www.cdc.gov...

One of the reasons that the pandemic of 1918 killed so many of the younger generation as per CDC historical findings is attributed to the 3 wave of infections, if the disease was circulating since the late 1800 the older generation was already immune to it, but the younger generation was not when the 3 wave came around it infected the younger generation with a more virulent effect.

One theory that may partially explain these findings is that the 1918 virus had an intrinsically high virulence, tempered only in those patients who had been born before 1889, e.g., because of exposure to a then-circulating virus capable of providing partial immunoprotection against the 1918 virus strain only in persons old enough (>35 years) to have been infected during that prior era (35). But this theory would present an additional paradox: an obscure precursor virus that left no detectable trace today would have had to have appeared and disappeared before 1889 and then reappeared more than 3 decades later.

Could a 1918-like Pandemic Appear Again? If So, What Could We Do About It?

In its disease course and pathologic features, the 1918 pandemic was different in degree, but not in kind, from previous and subsequent pandemics. Despite the extraordinary number of global deaths, most influenza cases in 1918 (>95% in most locales in industrialized nations) were mild and essentially indistinguishable from influenza cases today. Furthermore, laboratory experiments with recombinant influenza viruses containing genes from the 1918 virus suggest that the 1918 and 1918-like viruses would be as sensitive as other typical virus strains to the Food and Drug Administration–approved antiinfluenza drugs rimantadine and oseltamivir.

I guess hopefully this time around we are more medically savy to deal with a deadly pandemic if it ever comes our way.









[edit on 23-11-2009 by marg6043]

Odd question, but if people are drowning on their own fluids building up in their lungs, would it help to invert the person or decline the body down toward the head to help drain the fluids?

The lungs are like a pair of plastic bags that can obviously retain fluid, would flipping them upside down help drain them out?

Its not a cure for anything, but could it buy time in less agressive pneumonia?

reply to post by CAPT PROTON


you can't be upside for extended periods- the blood rushing to your head would in fact cause severe hemorrhage and kill you... so unfortunately, no, you can't do that.

Originally posted by JJay55

Originally posted by not_just_paranoid

What facts do you have to base this assumption? I have the UN Who's reports of 1972 telling how to commit world genocide, and they have followed this plan to the letter T.

Think about it now, if we have too many people and not enough food, how are 550,000 soliders, national guard, reserves, police, sheriffs, going to stop 300,000 million people at 5,450 to 1 odds? Bio-weapons is the answer for the rich power elite. They have been planning this from day one of the League of Nations to the United Nations of today. Of the 194 countries that signed onto the WHO, if a stage six pandemic is announced, those national sovereign countries give up their sovereignty to the WHO. We are talking about the One World Government or New World Order. You my dear have not done your homework.

JJay55.......Even though your post quotes me (I think on the previous page of this thread) I didn't say the above. I was only quoting someone else and I did it wrong. I am trying to get the same document so I can view it. I just wanted to clarify that the above post was NOT originally mine. I would still love to see that document though!

[edit on 23-11-2009 by not_just_paranoid]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by not_just_paranoid]

[edit on 23-11-2009 by not_just_paranoid]

reply to post by Kailassa


Yes you are right, people that get swine flu or seasonal flu even a cold, and develop pneumonia is the bacterial pneumonia they develop after the viral infection of the influenza or cold, because the lungs are more susceptible to bacterial infections.

Most people are able to fight the infections on their own after all influenza does attack the respiratory system, but sometimes people forget to take care of themselves, have underlying respiratory problems or immunodeficiencies and then pneumonia becomes fatal, statistics show how many people died from pneumonia every year and the figures are high making pneumonia related hospitalizations the third in the nation.

i agree, its just pnuemonia... no reason to hype yourselves up about anything... this is silly...

Could this be tied in with the mystery trucks were heard about earlier. If this stuff is delivered by Chemtrails and the trucks were delivering to silos out in the country that sounds logical. The Baxter people were told to shut their windows at night, so this stuff probably doesn't pass too well from person to person. Stay indoors or wear glasses and cover your mouth. and keep what ever room your heater gets air from closed off from the outside. And call your Senators and Congressmen and complain about the chem trails.

Originally posted by Kailassa

Originally posted by Asherah

Originally posted by Kailassa
Ginger is a great anti-inflammatory. Besides, they go beautifully with brandy. Prednisolone is another way to treat it, under medical supervision.
Alcohol, once one is infected with swine flu, avian flu or sars, is an absolute no-no. It worsens inflammation.

Wouldn't taking ibuprofen generate the same anti inflammatory affect?

I don't see the point in taking a drug when a common food serves the same purpose.
Ginger has no bad side effects. As well as being an anti-inflammatory it is safe to use long term, it is better than any anti-nausea drug, it gives one an appetite, it's readily available, cheap and it tastes good.

Some people are allergic to the food "medicine", including even ginger (or the whole ginger family which includes a bunch of spices like turmeric and cardamom, too).

Bromelain (pineapple enzyme) is an anti-inflammatory, which I've read can even work better than ibuprofen for some issues (*don't* know about with H1N1). However, people with latex allergies may be allergic to that, too (as well as kiwi, avocados, bananas, and who knows what else in that allergy cross-reaction group).

There is also a caution with bromelain, as it can increase the heartrate. It can also make anything you take with it more bio-available or potent, meaning you could also increase potentially dangerous side effects.

So, just because it's natural doesn't mean it's ideal for a given person.

I still prefer natural, but I myself took tylenol when I got my H1N1 fever. It was the only drug (granted, OTC) that I took, because I didn't know what else to take and the fever isn't something I play around with.

Originally posted by really
... I do have a friend who caught the flu. She dowsed herself in different homeopathic remedies and started feeling better. ... She tested positive for swine flu. So, she took herself to her own doctor who confirmed this. He also found that she had pneumonia.

With homeopathy (assuming you are not making the common mistake of calling anything natural "homeopathic"), supposedly you really have to find the exact correct remedy for you. Strict homeopathy, from what I know, reduces that to one specific remedy at a time. There are so many for flu. I took a homeopathic, but I still got very congested lungs. So I moved on to herbs via my herbalist for the H1N1. If I had gone to the homeopath or called him, he probably would've suggested a different homeopathic remedy than that which I took.

I think if you are going to treat yourself, unless you have expert knowledge, one should be cautious. I still prefer consulting with a qualified practitioner if it's a serious condition, when it comes to alternative medicine.

That's just my opinion on alternative medicine. I'm not saying not to go to the doctor! Some people don't know where to start with alternative medicine, and I don't think it's wise to start popping all kinds of remedies willy-nilly. You could still mess yourself up that way or miss something serious that a doctor needs to check.

I still go to the doctor.

So, with pneumonia am I to take it that you can have it and have no symptoms?

[edit on 23-11-2009 by invernal]

We all need to read up on that 1918 flu, what happened then seems to be happening now. They are not telling us everything but calling it a hemorrhagic flu NO thats not true, the bleeding did occur from ears, nose, etc... This is the same flu like they said that was around in 1918, they have that much right.

These doctors should know as they are treating these patients. They need to read up on the 1918 flu pandemic.

Are we in the second wave yet? I think we are still in the first wave of this flu. It will get worse. There is more to this flu, and doctors need to know this. We could turn to statues, unable to move. SH*T

en.wikipedia.org...