What would you do if your current position is wrong?

I am a skeptic of most things paranormal, but I would jump on the bandwagon presented enough evidence.

I am interested in others here: If there were compelling evidence disproving what you currently hold to be true; would you change your position?

E.g. If you are religious, god was disproved. If you are athiest, god was proved.

Myself:

If god were proven: I would immediately start praying, preaching and attoning for my sins.
If aliens are here: I would be extremely excited, and want to know as much as possbile about what their plans were.
If magic was real: I would want to learn!

What about you guys?

[edit on 22-11-2009 by xelamental]

well with the god example it depends...

if the god is one who i could like and would want to follow, then i would follow it.

if its a god that i would consider detestable, then i would rather be in hell (or that god's version of hell) than to debase myself worshiping a being i COULDNT consider supreme.

Personally I try and veiw all things from a scientific point of view.

Theory, observe, test, validate. I am willing to be wrong as if I can't learn from my mistakes or amend my theroys on subjects I don't feel like I could ever learn.

That I have some pre-conceived and maybe even wrong ideas I like to think they dont stop me from changing how or what I think or hold to be true.

On the god thing if he/she was proven to exsist I would still question him/her as in my opinion he screwed up, as for the last 2000 years or more we have killed one another in his/her name or at the very least used it as a very convieniant excuse to kill.


[edit on 22-11-2009 by jpmail]

[edit on 22-11-2009 by jpmail]

Originally posted by jpmail
On the god thing if he/she was proven to exsist I would still question him/her as in my opinion he screwed up, as for the last 2000 years or more we have killed one another in his/her name or at the very least used it as a very convieniant excuse to kill.

Let's assume it's the god thing, and for arguments sake the judeo-christian god. Would you willingly go to hell just out of protest?

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
well with the god example it depends...

if the god is one who i could like and would want to follow, then i would follow it.

if its a god that i would consider detestable, then i would rather be in hell (or that god's version of hell) than to debase myself worshiping a being i COULDNT consider supreme.

That's a good point - I hasn't considered god's that I didn't agree with. I imagine if the scientologists were right I would have a big problem following them! Which one's would you not follow?

[edit on 22-11-2009 by xelamental]

reply to post by xelamental


I'd do the same thing I'm doing now. If ghosts were proved to not exist, I'd still wonder and try to figure out what caused me to have my almost 20 different ghost sightings over the years. Some of them even when other witnesses standing by seeing the same thing.

Sure maybe it wasn't really ghosts. Maybe it was mass hallucinations or sleep paralysis or EMF fields or maybe it was just having a ten minute conversation with something that wasn't really there.

I'd still be just as interested to know which it was and why those things cause people to see things. Sure, maybe ghosts aren't real, but the search for answers continues anyway. Still looking for something. The show must go on.

If God or Jesus was proven to not exist, I'd still do the same thing. If Jesus had good advice or bad advice, it was still good advice or bad advice regardless of if he was real or not. After all, it was the same message. That hasn't changed.

If donating to charity and going to church and preaching and atoning for my sins was important before, it's even more important if God isn't real. That means there's no second chance. I only get one shot to get it right. This is all we get.

A good charity or a good church is all about community. Something that would become even more important and should be more important than it is. If there's no God, all we got is each other. There's no invisible sky wizard to come and save us from ourselves. If we won't help each other and come together just because there is no God then what hope is there for us?

If I'm preaching it's because I'm passionate about something and I believe it's important and I believe it's important to other people and they need to hear the message. Sure, God might not be real, but there must be something that the people need to hear?

Isn't it important they hear about other things like stop destroying the planet! Stop the wars! World hunger! or any of the other millions of important issues out there. There's plenty of things to preach about if God isn't real too. Just because we can't prove it, isn't any excuse to sit on the lazy boy and do nothing.

Also, i'd better atone for my sins now. Let's not forget the actual people that may have been harmed. Maybe I don't have to apologize to God, but what about anyone I hurt? When I die, I'll just be dead. If there isn't going to be another chance to say sorry, then I'd better do it now. Even more important if God isn't real.

In other words, not believing in God isn't any excuse to be lazy. It doesn't justify not getting up on Sunday morning. There's still a world that needs to be improved out there, and now there's one less sky fairy to do it for us.

We don't know if God is real or not. One should be content with how they live their life regardless of if God is real or not. One should live a life that works for them regardless. Real or not a good life is a good life and a bad life is a bad life.

This is exactly why Jesus wants us to believe in him though. He knows many people will just sit there and do nothing unless they believe.

Let's take a lesson from the Bible. Jesus came and told the people to not judge, turn the other cheek, love each other, help the poor, and help the sick.

They crucified him. Three days later he came back from the dead and eventually ascended to Heaven. Then he started getting more followers. Some of the very people that didn't believe in him before.

Not because of his message, that was the same as it had been from the very beginning, but because of his little magic trick showing he was God. And now today how many people believe in Jesus not because of his message, but because of a magic trick that would certainly be insanely trivial to accomplish for a God?

Cause that's how people work. They have to believe in something and see a magic trick before they'll get up off the couch and actually do something about it.

Now, do you really need God to come down and do a magic trick or see some sort of proof? Or, are you gonna get up off the couch, live your life as best you can, and do something productive right now?

Originally posted by xelamental

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest
well with the god example it depends...

if the god is one who i could like and would want to follow, then i would follow it.

if its a god that i would consider detestable, then i would rather be in hell (or that god's version of hell) than to debase myself worshiping a being i COULDNT consider supreme.

That's a good point - I hasn't considered god's that I didn't agree with. I imagine if the scientologists were right I would have a big problem following them! Which one's would you not follow?

[edit on 22-11-2009 by xelamental]

Thats a tough question. any of them that i felt were not perfect. which would be hard because many things i consider right and wrong change (as it probably does with many people)


actually...................i cant say i would follow any of them. unless they were not all powerful and all knowing.

a loving, all powerful, all knowing god could have and should have set the world up so it wasnt such a hell hole. no god like the one i just mentioned would be worshiped by me. in fact, if lets say the "judeo-christian" god was the real god, i would have a lot of questions culminating in a very pi$$ed off rant and a "F**K you. i'll be in hell if you need me"

also no deistic gods...because why would you even bother? they dont care if you worship or not.

but lets say....the greek gods were real.... i might. depends on their principles and such. i know NONE of them claim to be perfect and many greek myths display the weaknesses an shortcomings of the gods. so those you cant wholly blame for things...but then again...they still didnt intervene or make themselves known to me personally like they supposedly did thousands of years ago. so that i will have to think about.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

What if one has no positions? What if one doesn't believe in anything which one cannot establish to be true by objective observation? Why should one believe at all?

To believe in something is a shared illusion. Muslims share their illusions and Christians their particular ones - while atheists have their own illusions. Politicians have their illusions when they struggle for common cause; there is no cause to struggle for.

Why there are so many religions and ideologies when there is only a single reality?

One whom is illuminated, needs not to believe. To believe in something is a division between reality and falseness; it is a division breaking down an individual, multiplying the one as to person.

-v

[edit on 22-11-2009 by v01i0]

reply to post by xelamental


Yes any God that would happily allow any one to murder in there name is no god worth worshiping.

I also dislike the idea of I am god so you must bow down to me.

Originally posted by xelamental
I am a skeptic of most things paranormal, but I would jump on the bandwagon presented enough evidence.

I am interested in others here: If there were compelling evidence disproving what you currently hold to be true; would you change your position?

Yes, I would. Let me explain. I do not have what most call "beliefs," I have "ideas" instead. Ideas are gained every day, and new ideas sometime replace old ideas, and they sometimes reinforce older ideas. Ideas are Dynamic in nature. Beliefs, on the other hand, are quite static. Beliefs are written in stone, they never chance. Ask any Christian, or any Muslim, if they would change one thing about their beliefs.

Actually, I am actively looking for new ideas to replace what I know, my ideas about evil ETs, NWO and Martial Law, Secret Government, and a host of other things that disturb me.

reply to post by xelamental

If there were compelling evidence disproving what you currently hold to be true; would you change your position?

If there were such evidence, I would immediately change my position. I think any sensible person would, don't you?

Concerning the running example we're speculating about (trust ATS members to go for the big one!), I'm an atheist, so my change of position would have to be based on the discovery of compelling proof that God exists.

If such proof were found, my reaction would be one of horror.

It would mean that all the injustice, wickedness and random horror of the world exist because Someone said 'let it be so'.

That Someone would have to be very, very evil. There would be no excuses for Him or Her. We might as well all give up trying to be good, because it would be hopeless. Why be good, when the greatest good to be hoped for from Omnipotence is to be coddled as a favourite while others are cruelly trampled?

If God were proved to exist I should be forced to become a gnostic.

Many religions advocate that humans are to be blamed for the imperfections of the world. Supporting this view, they interpret the Genesis myth as declaring that transgressions committed by the first human pair brought about a “fall” of creation resulting in the present corrupt state of the world. Gnostics respond that this interpretation of the myth is false. The blame for the world’s failings lies not with humans, but with the creator. Since -- especially in the monotheistic religions -- the creator is God, this Gnostic position appears blasphemous, and is often viewed with dismay even by non-believers.

I think the pagan religions have never left the human race. I think the elites are just plain satanists period. Pagan religions are based on energy and manipulation there of.

I know there is electronic mind control.

On our religions, i think they use christian religions and muslim one, to keep the general public stupid, towards there spiritual selfs. I think we live in our own world.

The LHC is just there to find what people are calling the force in star wars. We call it spiritual energies.

Who knows what they will find and if they will tell us. How will they use there findings and what will they do with this knowledge.

had that happen many times, better to evolve than to keep the mind closed

The truth is the truth and it doesn't matter what "I" think.

I already have that situation solved - I found what I was looking for some months ago. Have been an atheist all my life which is the easiest way to find it.

Psssst: He doesn't like prayers at all and you already payed for your sins.

Namaste,

Deckard

Originally posted by tinfoilman
reply to post by xelamental

 

I'd do the same thing I'm doing now. If ghosts were proved to not exist, I'd still wonder and try to figure out what caused me to have my almost 20 different ghost sightings over the years. Some of them even when other witnesses standing by seeing the same thing.

Sure maybe it wasn't really ghosts. Maybe it was mass hallucinations or sleep paralysis or EMF fields or maybe it was just having a ten minute conversation with something that wasn't really there.

I'd still be just as interested to know which it was and why those things cause people to see things. Sure, maybe ghosts aren't real, but the search for answers continues anyway. Still looking for something. The show must go on.

If God or Jesus was proven to not exist, I'd still do the same thing. If Jesus had good advice or bad advice, it was still good advice or bad advice regardless of if he was real or not. After all, it was the same message. That hasn't changed.

If donating to charity and going to church and preaching and atoning for my sins was important before, it's even more important if God isn't real. That means there's no second chance. I only get one shot to get it right. This is all we get.

A good charity or a good church is all about community. Something that would become even more important and should be more important than it is. If there's no God, all we got is each other. There's no invisible sky wizard to come and save us from ourselves. If we won't help each other and come together just because there is no God then what hope is there for us?

If I'm preaching it's because I'm passionate about something and I believe it's important and I believe it's important to other people and they need to hear the message. Sure, God might not be real, but there must be something that the people need to hear?

Isn't it important they hear about other things like stop destroying the planet! Stop the wars! World hunger! or any of the other millions of important issues out there. There's plenty of things to preach about if God isn't real too. Just because we can't prove it, isn't any excuse to sit on the lazy boy and do nothing.

Also, i'd better atone for my sins now. Let's not forget the actual people that may have been harmed. Maybe I don't have to apologize to God, but what about anyone I hurt? When I die, I'll just be dead. If there isn't going to be another chance to say sorry, then I'd better do it now. Even more important if God isn't real.

In other words, not believing in God isn't any excuse to be lazy. It doesn't justify not getting up on Sunday morning. There's still a world that needs to be improved out there, and now there's one less sky fairy to do it for us.

We don't know if God is real or not. One should be content with how they live their life regardless of if God is real or not. One should live a life that works for them regardless. Real or not a good life is a good life and a bad life is a bad life.

This is exactly why Jesus wants us to believe in him though. He knows many people will just sit there and do nothing unless they believe.

Let's take a lesson from the Bible. Jesus came and told the people to not judge, turn the other cheek, love each other, help the poor, and help the sick.

They crucified him. Three days later he came back from the dead and eventually ascended to Heaven. Then he started getting more followers. Some of the very people that didn't believe in him before.

Not because of his message, that was the same as it had been from the very beginning, but because of his little magic trick showing he was God. And now today how many people believe in Jesus not because of his message, but because of a magic trick that would certainly be insanely trivial to accomplish for a God?

Cause that's how people work. They have to believe in something and see a magic trick before they'll get up off the couch and actually do something about it.

Now, do you really need God to come down and do a magic trick or see some sort of proof? Or, are you gonna get up off the couch, live your life as best you can, and do something productive right now?

You made my day. Thank you.

I agree with everything you have said. People forget the message can be powerful even if the story was made up. You sir are a great human.

Originally posted by v01i0
What if one has no positions? What if one doesn't believe in anything which one cannot establish to be true by objective observation? Why should one believe at all?

To believe in something is a shared illusion. Muslims share their illusions and Christians their particular ones - while atheists have their own illusions. Politicians have their illusions when they struggle for common cause; there is no cause to struggle for.

Why there are so many religions and ideologies when there is only a single reality?

One whom is illuminated, needs not to believe. To believe in something is a division between reality and falseness; it is a division breaking down an individual, multiplying the one as to person.

-v

[edit on 22-11-2009 by v01i0]

Interesting post. Can you expand more on your philosophy?

Originally posted by Deckard666
The truth is the truth and it doesn't matter what "I" think.

I already have that situation solved - I found what I was looking for some months ago. Have been an atheist all my life which is the easiest way to find it.

Psssst: He doesn't like prayers at all and you already payed for your sins.

Namaste,

Deckard

Flying spaghetti monster?

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by xelamental

 

If there were compelling evidence disproving what you currently hold to be true; would you change your position?

If there were such evidence, I would immediately change my position. I think any sensible person would, don't you?

Concerning the running example we're speculating about (trust ATS members to go for the big one!), I'm an atheist, so my change of position would have to be based on the discovery of compelling proof that God exists.

If such proof were found, my reaction would be one of horror.

It would mean that all the injustice, wickedness and random horror of the world exist because Someone said 'let it be so'.

That Someone would have to be very, very evil. There would be no excuses for Him or Her. We might as well all give up trying to be good, because it would be hopeless. Why be good, when the greatest good to be hoped for from Omnipotence is to be coddled as a favourite while others are cruelly trampled?

If God were proved to exist I should be forced to become a gnostic.

Many religions advocate that humans are to be blamed for the imperfections of the world. Supporting this view, they interpret the Genesis myth as declaring that transgressions committed by the first human pair brought about a “fall” of creation resulting in the present corrupt state of the world. Gnostics respond that this interpretation of the myth is false. The blame for the world’s failings lies not with humans, but with the creator. Since -- especially in the monotheistic religions -- the creator is God, this Gnostic position appears blasphemous, and is often viewed with dismay even by non-believers.

Interesting I never knew about gnosticism. The thing is if a god is real, we would have to take his/her view of reality, because he/she created it. If this is really just a simulation setup for a test to see who loves god, then everything would make sense.

I don't love myself more than I love the truth.

reply to post by xelamental

Originally posted by xelamental
Can you expand more on your philosophy?

Yes, but the reply started to stray so that it was better to put it on thread of it's own; can be read here, if interested.

-v