Free-falling sensation in bed

Originally posted by nikiano

There are actually 6 homeopathic remedies that cover that symptom.

belladonna
bismuth
digitalis
guaiacum
phosphoricum acidum
sanguinaria

It might be appropriate to mention some of these are DEADLY!

reply to post by notreallyalive


WHAT????

Someone gave someone dangerous information that could do serious harm???

On ATS???

Yeah.. they call it Deadly Nightshade for a reason.

Originally posted by paranoiaFTW
I have that when I am right on the verge of sleep. Like I can feel myself drifting off and losing focus and then all of a sudden it feels like the end of my bed disappeared and I just fell backwards. I hate when it happens because it is scary as hell because when right on the edge of dreaming I think that I really am falling backwards and that I am going to die.

Exactly same with me. And it is something different then "normal" free fall dream. This "normal" is usually end of dreaming and you can learn how to enjoy it. I had this when I was younger very often, almost every morning.
This scary falling happen to me only at evening. It is disturbing. I'm not in very good psychical condition last few years so I think it is something like stress release ...

Edit to add: bit similar to Salvia Divinorum experience in some respect. Another explanation at my case may be that consciousness just don't want to give up and hit panic button. I have say obsessive conceptual thinking and have trouble with lack of emotions (half way psychopat). I'm almost unable to meditate because this conceptual mania.
I think it isn't abnormal but for sure it is sign that there is something bad with your psyche.

[edit on 21-11-2009 by zeddissad]

reply to post by defcon5


Actually, these more mundane explanations are effects themselves of the underlying "realities" which are themselves noticed, but not fully understood by a lot of people, myself included. Brain chemicals, for instance, are an expression or manifestation of a deeper truth operating, and not operating factors themselves. Although the same is also likely true of things like the "astral" story.

It's kinda necessary that this thing occurs. When you're sleeping oftentimes you're in a very "deep" sleep or very "far" away, whichever is your favorite explanatory framework. But, sometimes while you're doing this, a lion comes. Or, today's modern equivalent, a jealous ex-girlfriend. Sometimes this lion tries to eat you too, so you have to have some mind-clenching, body-jumping kind of reaction to get you "back" and get you up and out of the way. Sensation of falling is one of the most alarming things and your body understands that something must immediately be done about this.
If you like the "Darwinian" evolution stories, you could say it's related to when we were monkies and were falling out of trees.

I've had this happen but it isn't always neccesarily a random falling sensation. Usually it's preceded by a relevant dream. I'd be walking or biking and then I'd trip and fall and right before I hit the ground I wake up and my whole body jerks (or at least it feels like it does).

Also it's not always falling for me. Not too long ago I was sleeping in class and I was having a dream that I was about to walk my dog, and the dog yanked on the leash real fast causing me to lose balance in my dream. I woke up immediately and I'm pretty sure my whole leg jerked to the side

reply to post by IceOwl

I am not sure what you are saying exactly there, but I will tell you that dreaming happens in a different stage of sleep then a hypnic jerk does, so I am not sure that what you are implying is possible. Hypnagogia tends to occur in Stage One sleep, during Sleep Onset, dreaming happens in Stage REM. There is a flow of stages to proper sleep, and there is always a period of time between Sleep Onset and REM Onset, which is known as the REM Latency. Normally that time is spent mostly in Stage Two Sleep, where there is no active dreaming of any kind. Therefore, if there were some underlying spiritual event that was the cause of this, then it would start at Sleep Onset, stop during the REM Latency Period, and start again at REM Onset. That makes no sense unless it is actually due to brain function during sleep, rather then some outside spiritual force.

Originally posted by notreallyalive

On the other hand, if this is happening, as some of you described OFTEN,

It doesn't happen often to me.

reply to post by defcon5


I also have a dream that corresponds with the hypnagogic jerk, in it I fall off a pavement and try to catch my balance, but then I realise that I am in bed. This usually happens just as I have nodded off, so I assume that I fall into REM very quickly, that's all.

reply to post by sphinx551


I have a couple answers for you, take them into consideration.

1.) It's normal and everybody get's that every now & then.
2.) It's an abduction symptom.
3.) OOBE / Astral Projection
4.) Psychic Leech / Somebody is f#cking with your aurora or draining your energy via telepathy.

Also, If it helps, If it's a dream that you ARE falling or about to die and you jerk awake right before you hit the ground / die don't worry about it at all - perfectly normal.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by h1satsu]

reply to post by labyrinth101


A hypnic jerk will occur at Sleep Onset, its not usually associated with dreaming and the person my still be partly awake. When it has happened to me, it feels like I'm sliding out of the bed, like someone just tipped it. It can also feel like falling or floating.

A hypnic or hypnagogic jerk is an involuntary myoclonic twitch which occurs during hypnagogia, just as the subject is beginning to fall asleep. Physically, hypnic jerks resemble the "jump" made when a person is startled.

It should not be associated with dreaming because you should not be going straight into REM Sleep, unless you are Narcoleptic or Sleep Deprived. Having a body movement when waking is not uncommon though, but its also not the same thing as a Hypnic Jerk.

Here is some back-up information:

The period of NREM sleep is made up of stages 1-4. Each stage can last from 5 to 15 minutes. A completed cycle of sleep consists of a progression from stages 1-4 before REM sleep is attained, then the cycle starts over again.

Stage 1: Polysomnography (sleep readings) shows a reduction in activity between wakefulness and stage 1 sleep. The eyes are closed during Stage 1 sleep. One can be awakened without difficulty, however, if aroused from this stage of sleep, a person may feel as if he or she has not slept. Stage 1 may last for five to 10 minutes. Many may notice the feeling of falling during this stage of sleep, which may cause a sudden muscle contraction (called hypnic myoclonia).

Stage 2: This is a period of light sleep during which polysomnographic readings show intermittent peaks and valleys, or positive and negative waves. These waves indicate spontaneous periods of muscle tone mixed with periods of muscle relaxation. The heart rate slows and the body temperature decreases. At this point, the body prepares to enter deep sleep.

Stages 3 and 4: These are deep sleep stages, with stage 4 being more intense than Stage 3. These stages are known as slow-wave, or delta, sleep. If aroused from sleep during these stages, a person may feel disoriented for a few minutes.

Usually, REM sleep occurs 90 minutes after sleep onset. The first period of REM typically lasts 10 minutes, with each recurring REM stage lengthening, and the final one may last up to an hour. Polysomnograms show brainwave patterns in REM to be similar to that recorded during wakefulness. In people without sleep disorders, heart rate and respiration speed up and become erratic during REM sleep. During this stage the eyes move rapidly in different directions.

Intense dreaming occurs during REM sleep as a result of heightened brain activity, but paralysis occurs simultaneously in the major voluntary muscle groups. REM is a mixture of encephalic (brain) states of excitement and muscular immobility. For this reason, it is sometimes called paradoxical sleep.

Studies have shown that people sleep more efficiently when they are sleep-deprived and that they enter REM sleep faster when this is the case. Sleep studies also show that patients who sleep less move to stage 3, stage 4 and REM sleep faster than patients who are not sleep deprived

reply to post by defcon5


The Stages of Sleep idea has been around for a long time but there is increasing information that it is not always accurate, and certainly not understood to any depth.

I am a lab tech for an EEG lab at a Transpersonal Psych Institute. We study this kind of thing and I can tell you from personal experience that people can go directly into Stage 3 or 4 within minutes of falling asleep. Babies, in particular, are thought to actually experience this in reverse! They dream first, then fall into deep sleep.

I haven't checked on peer-reviewed journals on this, and don't have citations, just wanna say it's up for debate.

Originally posted by notreallyalive
The Stages of Sleep idea has been around for a long time but there is increasing information that it is not always accurate, and certainly not understood to any depth.

That's news to me. I can certainly see the differences in sleep stages, and can score the EEG in a 960 epoch study in about 15 minutes. It actually seems to be one of the more “black and white” of the medical fields, at least IMHO. Do we understand everything the body does during those times? No. However, we have a pretty good grasp on most of it. For example when people dream, what the stages are, what kind of Parasomnias happen in which stage, etc...

Originally posted by notreallyalive
I am a lab tech for an EEG lab at a Transpersonal Psych Institute.

I had to look that up because I have never heard of it before. It looks kind of “New Agey” to me (the one I saw mentioned psychology and theology ). You know that they are cracking down on anything that is not accredited, labs/centers are either going to be playing by the rules, or they're not going to get any kind of reimbursement anymore.

Medicare is requiring freestanding sleep centers to become accredited within certain timeframes. If accreditation is not obtained, Medicare reimbursement will cease. More than two dozen states are either mandating accreditation or on their way to doing so. Sleep centers would be wise to start preparing for accreditation now as the process can take a significant amount of time.

And you know, Medicare sets the standard for that other insurances follow.
Which means you'll be following these guys rules if you are in one of those states (it will be all states pretty quickly):
BRPT

There was a lot of quackery going on in the sleep field, because not only were a lot of people ignorant of it, but a lot of general practitioners were as well. This is a good move for the field, to get some standardization across the board.

Anyway, cool that you do EEG. What kind of Polygraph you using?

Originally posted by notreallyalive
We study this kind of thing and I can tell you from personal experience that people can go directly into Stage 3 or 4 within minutes of falling asleep.

Never seen it in a normal adult, unless they were on some type of med that caused them to have excessive amounts of Delta. Of course minutes meaning what? 1-5, or like 15-20?

You do know that you do not run the chart speed on your polygraph the same for sleep as you do for normal EEG, right? We run a 30 second Epoch, I am pretty sure that normal EEG runs at 15 or faster. People can cross between the two fields, but unless you are trained in sleep, things are different than in normal EEG. The same applies to a PSGT, they certainly cannot go into an OR and run EEG on a Carotid Artery Surgery without additional training.

Originally posted by notreallyalive
Babies, in particular, are thought to actually experience this in reverse! They dream first, then fall into deep sleep.

Infants are a whole different ball of wax than adults. I don't really deal with them, but I am aware that they sleep about 90% of the time in REM. At less then 6 months, they actually are scored an entirely different way: Active Sleep, Quite Sleep, and Indeterminate Sleep. I again, have only ever dealt with children a few times.

The main reason that sleep in children is harder to figure out, than in adults, is because they cannot communicate. We determine certain aspects of any neuroscience by communicating with the person being tested (for example split brain patients). We cannot, for example, wake a 6 month old up and ask them if they were dreaming, or what they were experiencing, thereby making it much more difficult to pin down certain aspects of their sleep.

Originally posted by notreallyalive
I haven't checked on peer-reviewed journals on this, and don't have citations, just wanna say it's up for debate.

I don't know of any real labs who are debating it. Not a single one. Rechtschaffen and Kales has been the standard since well before my time, and other than them merging 3 and 4 into one stage, I don't know of any other significant changes from their scoring. Overall I would say that its mostly just been changes in terminology. (eg. auricular is now mastoid, etc...)


[edit on 11/22/2009 by defcon5]

reply to post by defcon5


I don't think I'm sleep deprived! I can fall asleep very quickly, eg while sitting on the sofa holding a cup of coffee, have a quick dream and then wake up to a still hot cup. I do it often, so it is normal for me. I just wanted to back up shade454 that dreaming can happen in conjunction with the hypnagogic jerk. Also, I assume that the jerk itself triggers the image of falling rather than the other way around.

I do find sleep science fascinating, so thanks for the info.

reply to post by labyrinth101


I do not in any way mean this to diagnose you or anything...

while sitting on the sofa holding a cup of coffee, have a quick dream and then wake up to a still hot cup.

But you might want to check this out:
Epworth Sleepiness Scale
Even if you sleep normal amounts of time, you can be sleep deprived from other factors interfering with you having the correct percentage of time in each stage of sleep... That is, of course, if you believe that there are sleep stages.

You can answer these on here or not, of course its up to you...
Do you snore?
Kick your legs, or get leg cramps? Sweat?
Wake up with cotton mouth, a headache, or feeling like you never slept?
You have claustrophobia, depression, or memory loss?
Get up to go to the bathroom at night, especially around 3AM?
Do you wake up early without an alarm clock?

If any of that applies, you might want to discuss it with a Board Certified Sleep Physician, and have a sleep test done.

[edit on 11/22/2009 by defcon5]

Well IME, returning from the astral/OOBE isn't like the hypnogogic jerk phenomenon. Its pretty gentle & only becomes disorienting if I resist. Its like being tugged backwards by the middle, then laying down from the position you'd be in doing crunches, even tho I'm usually on my side. If that makes any sense
I too once had that fall & jerk thing when I was awake. Just once whilst recovering from illness. I lost my balance & slipped off the curb, breaking some bones in my foot. My reaction was copious profanity, then I noticed 2 old women looking like I'd just flashed them. Some people came out of a shop & thought I'd sworn at the women. It got ugly.
I'd go to the Dr. too if it was happening a lot.

Originally posted by h1satsu
reply to post by sphinx551

 

4.) Psychic Leech / Somebody is f#cking with your aurora or draining your energy via telepathy.

Would somebody actually really do this?
Were there any reports or stories of this happening?

As for the other options:
My super optimistic side thinks it's number 2.
My optimistic side thinks it's number 3.
My pessimistic side thinks it's number 1.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by sphinx551]

Originally posted by notreallyalive

Originally posted by nikiano

There are actually 6 homeopathic remedies that cover that symptom.

belladonna
bismuth
digitalis
guaiacum
phosphoricum acidum
sanguinaria

It might be appropriate to mention some of these are DEADLY!

Niki was recommending homeopathic remedies of these; that's a bit different to pulling the plants up out of your garden and eating them.

Homeopathy, (speaking as an untrained outsider,) consists of mixing a substance with water, shaking it a special way, putting a bit of that mixture in another container of water and shaking it, and repeating the process until the mixture is so dilute that no trace of the original substance is left.

What you are left with is water with a memory in it.
Don't ask me how this works, intellectually it makes no sense at all. However I can vouch for the fact that, despite my scepticism, I've seen it work amazingly.

A hypnic jerk will occur at Sleep Onset, its not usually associated with dreaming and the person my still be partly awake. When it has happened to me, it feels like I'm sliding out of the bed, like someone just tipped it. It can also feel like falling or floating.

Well according to several posters here (and my own experience), this falling jerk sensation does happen from dreams. I don't care if there's 100 years of research to back up the claim that it's not possible, because regardless of whether "science" says it should happen, it does in fact happen; the only thing you could fairly reasonably say is that it's not the same kind of jerk - although it sure feels identical to me.

I'll give an example. I've had dreams where I'm in a situation with dangerous altitudes (I forget exactly what it was) and at some point I fall. Sometimes I've fallen straight for ~10 seconds before actually hitting the ground, where I am immediately jolted awake with the typical falling-jolt sensation (usually I feel like my entire body jolted but I'm often unsure if I actually did or if it all was a dream; although my bed still swaying answers solves that

Other times I've definitely had the jolt when I'm trying to go to sleep and out of nowhere I get the falling-jolt. The two seem identical in feeling except the one when just going to sleep you don't have a memory of why you were falling, it just feels like you did. The dream induced ones you do often remember faintly the dream that lead to the falling-jolt; remembering the dream is the only perceived difference between these, the falling-jolt itself is indistinguishable.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by ac500]

i get that feeling too. sometimes im awake(more or less)and i just feel it and its so real that for a few seconds i really believe i fell from somewhere. ive wondered what that was too.

[edit on 24-11-2009 by raksha198]

It's juste your brain saying to you "your falling" but it was in your dream.
The brain has difficulty to make the difference between dream and reality for that second.

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