Who is Orchestrating the Fall of the Churches?

reply to post by octotom

In churches that are two either of the extremes, really liberal or ultra-fundie, attendence is dropping. The former gives people no reason to come and believe, while the later offends people and is really good at pushing people away.
In more middle churches, that don't focus on peripheral things and stick to spiritual things, they're growing and spreading.

Yeah, & a source for that too?
Or ketchup: your choice

reply to post by Alethea


The last figures i read the world was still around 85% religious. It really doesn't seem as if religion is losing hold to me lol. Ok some countries have become quite secular, and strikingly these tend to be the countries that have been quite advanced for a long time. Time will tell as to whether other countries, with a population gaining general scientific knowledge will follow suit.

Originally posted by Grandma
reply to post by On the Edge

 

Ministers and Mainstream churches are not preaching the gospel about what will happen in the end-times. They need to prepare their congregations for what is to come, tell the truth, and help the people on how to be ready to withstand the Tribulation period of Satan. We will not be left helpless but we will need each other.


Peace,
Grandma

But thats something of a big no-no for a priest. Or a layman, according to Jesus at least:

Matthew 24:36-51:
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

I mean, sure, Jesus, what did he know? But i have been told a lot of church goers hold what he said in high regard...

There is NO CONSPIRACY in that fact.

People stop attending masses and stuff because they have access to a decent education , which makes them doubt the existence of a guy who cut a sea in two with a stick or another one that raised from the dead.

Religion delayed mankind's march towards progress for centuries, killing scientists or putting them in jail, launching endless and repeated crusades to save a couple of churches in Jerusalem so Christians would get a sense of unity, forbidding abortions (even today), closing eyes on atrocities committed in the name of Christ and the list is damn long so I'm gonna stop here.

I received a catholic education, spent my whole childhood in the same private schools where I got basic religious education. However, as I grew an old child ( which I still am, at age 26 ) I put the whole world into question. I came up with one thing : religion is a way to tell you you're special and God loves you, so you do what the Church tells you .

After having supported totalitarism and monarchy, the Church gets what it deserves.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum

Who is Orchestrating the Fall of the Churches?

I'm not sure, but I wish it was me! I think it might be moocowman tho...

Lol
Actually BD Anytime I'm asked to attend a church I do so if I can.

It's quite an enlightening experience.

I almost got baptizes as a Mormon once but they backed out at the last minute, which in hindsight was a good thing as I'd have no excuse for their door knockers to do my chores.

You only have to visit churches and such to see how their in complete decline and the pastors and such are desperate to get bums on seats hence the Alpha course campaigns and such.

As of today it would appear that the Anglican bishops are bent on ganging up with the Vatican so times must be really bad.

It would appear in the UK at least that xtianity is terrified of the increase of Islam , and it's a pretty sad indictment when chapels and churches are being turned into mosques.

I've never been invited to a mosque by the way and would probably end up getting burned alive in my car if I should.

Not to stray too far off I am of a mind that there could possibly a concerted effort, by some in groups within groups, to bring down the Vatican and the invention of the man god jesus.

Knight and Lomas have gone a long way to dig deeo in relation to the Templars and Masonary etc.

Authors like Benoir expose a little more at a time, coupled with the re surgence of interest in the Talpiot tomb there would appear to be very importand dots being joined.

It is quite obvious that the Templars had extracted large amounts of wealth from the christian church but the question remains what did they have over them and where is it now?

I would personally theories that the the church paid up because there was evidence that jesus was not a god. If that had got out it would have been the end of the church.

The question is, did that information survive ? Perhaps it did and it is being used to extract wealth from the Vatican, or perhaps it may have been withheld till just the right time so as to bring down the Vatican.

It's not rocket science to figure out that the church of Rome simply invented a deity, what is staggering is that xtians simply will not question anything their told but attack and pull out the hate card .

reply to post by dusty1

The churches will fall. As predicted in the book of Revelation.

The book of revelation and what a joke it's turned out to be, the gospels themselves say how John was an ignoramus and could not read or wright yet he somehow not only writes revelation but does so in Greek ?

C'mon wake up and smell the coffee dude.

Originally posted by On the Edge
One word: Satan.

cute. actually I am behind it with many others. lol.
ok seriously now. Do you even know where the term Nephilim came from?> yes yes book of genisis (bog) created by the hebrew people. But where did the BOG come from? well back about 400 BCE or so, the hebrew people were held captive by the Babylonians. it was then the BOG made its initial appearance. It was a truncated version of the Sumerian belief structure. an attemtp to save the original teachings of the ancient Sumerians. But when you have babylonian priests over your shoulder, saying their way is right or die, you dont have much choice but to make the anunnaki (those who from heaven to earth came) into one single god. ALL FACETS OF CHRISTENDOM, Allah, and the Torah/Talmud all came from the sumerian texts. there is no disputing this, its part of history as we know it today. The book of genisis is just a rough copy of something older.
Now, in my opinion, this jesus fellow never walked the earth regarldess of how many hoaxes say otherwise. also in my opinion, this mohamed never walked the earth either. I strongly believe they are just something to subdue the masses. history has been tainted since the rising of the vatican, we know this for true, and with the aid of certain people lining their family trees to claim certain bloodlines that were popular at the time, esp. brittish nobility in relation to the druids during the first occult pop scene in the 16-1700'sthe early hebrews werent trying to create a religion, they were trying to preserve something bit by bit, hence the epic of creation, the epic of gilgamesh, etc. and the guys name was NOT noah, it was Zoisudra.various churches and religioous organisations have tumbled through out history, why should this one be any different. because a church falls to the ground does not mean you have to forget your own beliefs.

[edit on 21-11-2009 by stanlee]

I think its worth considering that whilst we see plenty of reports of declining congregations, in western nations at least, there is also an ongoing rise in non-religious spirituality. For instance, the old bete noir "Wicca". Is it really correct to describe something that has had more schisms than hot dinners since its inception (re-inception?) a religion? How many religions invite their participants to choose their own pantheon & rituals?
Then we have the continuously growing influence of Buddhism, more often than not grafted onto a basically cherry-picked new testament style upbringing; perhaps with some Yoga practice or Tai-Chi thrown in & the odd visit to a Solstice Festival also? Crystal Healing, Candle Magick, Reiki, various types of Meditation, Norse Rune Casting, Astrology, etc. Often, all these things, & more, part of the spiritual cornucopia of a single person.
IMO, if there is such a thing as objective reality, no matter how accurate our science becomes, nor how enlightened spiritually, we will never experience it. Thus we do well to maintain a seperate, holistic & spiritual, model of our universe concurrently with our day-to-day model. Its a trick I couldn't do until my mid 20s, but I believe the real trick is to get the 3rd model working simultaneously: that of desire, consequence, true will & effect, ie magic.
The djinn will not go back in the bottle. The desire to make sense of our incomprehensibly complex reality is innate, as is our desire for freedom.
As soon as anyone experiences acceptance on a dancefloor, God is a DJ. As soon as anyone looks at their hands & counts 1, 2 & then counts 3, sits patiently & waits for more, numinousness will open up to them. As soon as anyone takes confidence & even the briefest sensation of deity into a personally designed ritual, they know magick.
Ah baby, but you can't stop preaching too...

reply to post by debunky


"Tell us,when will this happen and what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" Matt 1:3

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree ....Enen so,when you see all these things,you know that it is near,right at the door. I tell you,this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened." Matt.24:33

"Now,brothers,about times and dates,we do not need to write to you,for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.While people are saying 'Peace and Safety',then sudden destruction will come on them..." 1 Thessalonians 5:2

"But you,brothers,are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief." 1 Thess. 5:4

"Therefore,keep watch,because you do not know on what day the Lord will come." Matt.24:42

The Lord has told us what will be the signs of the end to watch for. We are told when we see these things to "Look up,our salvation draws nigh". He tells us not to be dismayed by the things we're seeing,but to draw closer to Him.

If He didn't want us to watch,He wouldn't have told us what to watch for!

What the churches are teaching today leaves followers in the dark as far as I'm concerned. And the fact that they mostly answer to the government and the church of Rome leaves me no wonder why!

By not telling them the truth,they will be just as easily led astray or fall into disbelief.

reply to post by stanlee


I appreciate your opinion,or "facts" or whatever. My belief remains the same though.

I can't even tell what it is you're talking about actually! But,if that's what you believe,who am I to judge?

We'll see in the end!

reply to post by On the Edge


spoken like a true victim of tunnel vision

reply to post by stanlee


I see it more as spoken by a true believer in the gospel of Jesus as the Son of God who died for our sins.....

I will not be swayed.

reply to post by debunky


It is true that Jesus does not know the hour or day of his second coming. but the Bible does include enough information for a true believer to know when some prophets are coming to pass now. Ministers do a disservice to their congregations by not quoting the prophets more and helping to get their people ready for what is to come so they don't get blindsided.

By the way I believe that will happen to some clergy members too. The CHURCH will be those who will be able and ready for the Tribulation of Satan.

Peace,
Grandma

Faith is a conscious choice.

No amount of force can defeat it.

We choose, that is the essence of freedom. The culture must accommodate that or fail.

People are awakening to the lies and mind control perpetuated by various denominations over the last few centuries.

All religions are a scam, a crock, a lie and an insult to the intelligence of those who follow them.

reply to post by Grandma


Hello....
Not only jesus will not know when the time is.
Also the angels will not know, god and god only will know.
So angels can't know, but mere men can?
I take it angels don't read the bible then? because there are enough hints in it?

As for that:
yup: another inconsitency
"It's gonna end. Soonish. I am not telling though"
"Ah well, here are some obscure hints"

Not to mention all the parts in the NT where the apostels conjecture the 2nd coming will be in their lifetime...

Hehehehe,
It is like saying no man knows the hour or the day that the US dollar is going to collapse.

And drawing from that some conclusion that it can never happen.

Anyone with eyes to see, and ears to hear knows that we are NOW into the end times prophecies mentioned in Revelations.

Many of the organised churches and religions are riddled with sin, vice, and corruption, but that has absolutely nothing to do with true spirituality.

Yes, many of the churches are under external attack, and also rotting from within, but spirituality OUTSIDE the churches is definitely growing stronger.

Religious faith is being driven underground, safe from freemasonry, satanism and the occult. It will not only survive, it will eventually triumph.

In ages past it has been the satanists that needed to hide and practice in secret for fear of their lives. They will soon have their day in the sun, but it will not last long.

It will soon be our turn to practice in secret for fear of our lives, but in the end we will definitely win this battle of good versus evil..

As on the edge stated early on, the answer is indeed obvious, Satan.

I'm not talking about the horny devil with the goatie and pointed tail, I'm referring to actual influence of this dark force that has infiltrated every aspect of our lives, from politics to science, and is directly or indirectly related to the 7 questions asked in the original post.

He/It knows Man's weaknesses and is preying on them.

I'm sure that this has been stated already, but I don't have time to read the entire thread right now. To answer your question though, I do believe the planets major religions are in decline, but I don't think it is caused a who, but a what?

What is causing it? Intelligence, critical thinking, the ability to better scrutinize religious texts, rationality, simple logic. Those are just a few of the evils that I believe are killing religion.

reply to post by debunky


I wouldn't be so happen stanch about your soul. Those of us who are followers of Christ not only read and meditate the Scriptures, we also have a personal one on one relationship with Him. During our alone time He talks to me and helps me understand what I need to know. The Holy Spirit is always there with all believers to help teach us and guide us.

Just going to church on Sunday, singing a few hymns, the pastor giving the "word of God"and saying a few prayers is not going to prepare the follower of Christ for what is coming. This is what I mean that the mainstream churches is falling way short in their duties to lead the flock. And Satan has his hands in most mainstream churches these days.

Just my thoughts!


Peace to all,
Grandma