12-12-12 Stellarium Video and 12-2-12 Picture

Originally posted by stereologist

Why would you do this? The Egyptians were not aware of the Gregorian calendar which went into use in 1582?

Hello sterolgist

Thank you for your post, however after reading some of your other posts… I now must question the motive… Why does anyone do anything… to either learn or discover I would hope…


This discovery has nothing whatsoever to do with our Gregorian Calendar and ancient cultures having to know anything about it, or vis-a-versa… other then perhaps as a time stamp from which to start looking for astronomical alignment similarities between each others conceptual tools… ie… what matches within our own time that would match what they saw within their time... As most people are unaware, earth time has almost zero use outside of our planet for any one other then us earthlings. Time is measured on our planet by the axial and our solar ecliptic velocity… however, velocity is determined by distance divide by time. Now that seems to be a paradox, but only because mankind is still stuck in a geocentric attitude when it comes to time and other observable so called phenomenon’s.
Now I said all that to say this… If we are talking about an advance or semi-advanced civilization then I would guess they would have understood the next time this cycle comes around… it would be 13,685 years later at the earliest. And 27,370 years at the latest…

Now because this cyclical alignment seems to be the exact same planetary convergence that happens every fifth cycle, and mathematically matches the Pyramids at Giza, it would appear they would’ve had to understand there is no way they could’ve known what kind of Calendar, Knowledge or Society would be around so many thousands of years into the future…


So I began to think… what would be the best type of Time Stamp for any past civilization, or even our own civilization, to pass forward a message, ( or warning perhaps), to future generations… (or perhaps the day for their/our gods arrival?) For me there could only be two answers… Those answer are either, planetary alignments, or constellation alignments with the emphasis on their own time, while showing the projected movement within a certain amount of time… Meaning, we know from our vantage/viewing point constellations are, or appear, to be moving away from each other, because of this our star maps need to be updated every ten years… And that's the other hypothesis used to describe why some believe the Pyramids at Giza could’ve been built… Yet I’ve always had a problem accepting that concept, because there are no other monolithic structures built anywhere else in Egypt honoring constellations… So for me, even though I found that concept thought provoking, I didn’t accept the final conclusion because there is simply no other evidence for it existing within ancient Egypt or anywhere else on the planet. However, I sure hell didn’t expect to find a planetary alignment the would match the Giza Pyramids and confirm my suspicions.


The reason I even began looking… is… I had read there was to be some kind of a five planet alignment happening in the year 2012 and I wanted to know what to look for and to see if there was anything else going to happen between the years 2009 and 2012... To my surprise there are many interesting planetary events happening within those years… Also, I’ve had a running hypothesis that perhaps the two witnesses were not people, but rather two planets… and perhaps the three wise men were three planets warning the second coming was about to happen… Now that is not to say I was looking for evidence of Jesus’ return, in truth, when I started I was looking for a sign that might show the return of the Mayan’s 9 god’s… that they said ARE coming back… And/Or perhaps those same gods equal the same alien gods of the Sumerians, the Egyptians, the Vegans, and many other cultures, including the statement by Jesus in Mathew 24, “…as in the days of Moses, so shall the end of days be…” I didn’t even think about the Pyramids at Giza until I accidentally discovered this alignment, and then after studying it for a little bit I went… “You know that sure looks a lot like Orion’s Belt…” And the rest as they say is history… Except for the new information mentioned above.

So in my mind, in order for one culture to talk to (or perhaps try to warn) another culture in the future, they don’t need to know anything about our Georgian Calendar and we don‘t need to know there‘s either… So… if we needed to pass a message forward, we would not use our own conceptual reality tools because that, and, the Earth changes all the time… yet… the wheels on the solar system keep going round and round…


All they need to know and all we need to know is our solar systems planetary cycles in order to communicate… and then if the message is real important, all we or they need to find is a planetary convergence that is close to the solar stamp (day or period of time) they want us to pay close attention too, or perhaps begin to prepare to save ourselves from… (add your 2012 theory here) And I must say… building extremely large pyramids in the middle of a desert is one sure way to get future generations attention… Even if those pyramids were built between 27 and 13 thousand plus years ago, and would’ve been built in a lush green environment. They were still bound to get peoples attention. However I will be among the first to admit I do not believe any past or present culture could predict a solar system or galactic calamity thousands of years in advanced… let alone a few simple years… to an exact day… I just don’t believe that, there are just to many unknown variables… However… If their (our) gods said… “when you see this planetary alignment/sign in the night sky you will know we are to return…” If I was to believe such a thing… then I would say using a planetary convergence to talk with future civilizations about the day of their arrival… is an extremely logical answer… because it and mathematics are the only two things that seem to make long distance communications possible… and perhaps that explains the pyramids…


Discovering this planetary convergence does not give me those answers… however… time sure as hell is going to teach all of us what the truth really is and right soon. I mean think about it… For the first time in all of recorded human history we are going to be able to stand where an ancient culture stood and know for absolute certain if their wonderful achievement was in fact created to honor a certain date… Once this finally breaks out into the mainstream, and I believe before Dec 3, 2012 it most certainly will… If I was Egypt I would do everything I could to hype the hell out of this and turn it into a Goldmine, and oh yeah study that other little thingy too.


--Charles Marcello


[edit on 5-5-2010 by littlebunny]

Originally posted by misteRee

Are you serious, stop bringin up Mayan and Egyptians, even there date for 2012 has been debunked and is used as a cosmological calendar of solar eclipses.

2012 has been thouroughly debunked, simple deductions, like in religion, shows that someone is lying...

'Ree

Hello misteRee thank you for your response as well…


I’m afraid I must ask you in return, are you serious? 2012 has been completely debunked… really… I find that statement to be totally interesting. Because I’ve been studying 2012 for four years now and I keep learning more new stuff every week… As far as I’m concerned it hasn’t been debunked by anyone… Perhaps one or two theories have been shot full of holes, or perhaps a couple of crazyass theories have been completely proven wrong, but 2012 most certainly hasn’t been debunked.


BTW, this planetary convergence that happens on Dec 3 2012 as far as I’m aware, it does not point to Nibiru… I guess it could, but I have no idea one way or the other, nor have I suggested that it does, so please don‘t assume, if you have a question please ask and I‘ll be more then happy to answer once I find some free time… However… Are you suggesting that you know for a fact it doesn‘t? Really? Hmm… Well then does the Destroyer Star actually exist? I would say from my studies that answer is still unknown… and I can say that with complete confidence… the reason that answer is unknowable is simply because most of science has no damn idea what they are looking for… They can say they know how to find a brown dwarf… okay, but… what if its something other, seeing how we truly don‘t know?


Now I can already hear you stating if it was on its way, we should be able to see it… I would think so too… But I don’t have any idea what to look for, other then, are there strange unexplained things that have happened within our solar system or are happening at present… And the answer to both of those questions is YES… Like… Planets Uranus and Neptune appear to have suffered physical pole shifts… Did you know that? Did you know that Venus and Jupiter seem to have been hit by massive meteorites within the last year and no one saw it happen to either planet? Did you know that our planet has been hit by what used to be called once is a decade meteors, but now we are being hit by them sometimes twice a week worldwide? Did you know any of that? Or how about comet NEAT??? That was one big ass comet, and not one amateur astronomer, that I’m aware of, came out screaming… OMG everyone look at this big ass comet… Let alone… did you know there is a infrared telescope in the South Pole? Why in the hell is there an infrared telescope in the South Pole… you know what, never mind that question, why in the hell is it and its data off limits to the public? Why? An infrared telescope??? The only way we are told we can physically observe/physically see Planet X, and that telescopes data and discoveries we aren’t allowed to know about and 2012 has been completely debunked… Are you sure about that, are you… or are you being led by the nose?

In my above post I was responding to a person asking about Calendars, did you know there is an ancient Jewish Calendar that a famous Jewish prophet some 500 years ago warned the Jewish messiah will be here sometime between Sept 2012 and Sept of 2013.… Do you know anything about the Cherokee Snake Prophecy and how it predicts something is going to happen in the year 2012 time frame? Do you know about the Viking Prophecy and that they say that if this tree dies so too does society? Do you know about the Hindu prophecy for the year 2012? Do you know about the Hopi Prophecy? Do you know about Islam’s Prophecy? Do you know about the Mayan shaman prophecy, to hell with the calendar, do you know about his prophecy and how eerily accurate it seems to be regarding our current times? Do you know about Mother Shipton? How about Merlin and his prophecy regarding when man will stand on the coast of England and the shores of France and talk to each other through a stone… do you know what he says is coming soon thereafter? Or how about the Oracle Sybil and her prophecies regarding 2012’s time frame… or the Ancient Greek Oracles of Delphi Prophecies regarding our time? How about Aborigines and their prophecies about our time? How about the Web Bots and their prediction? How about the Bible and its prophecies about our time and that there is only one more King/Pope left before the anti-christ… and perhaps no more then 8 years to the second coming… Or how about the 112 Popes Prophecy of Malachi Martin and the destruction of Rome… Did you know we are on Pope 111, and there aint but one Pope left… and look, right on time too... And this list hasn’t even begun to point out all the other prophesies from around the entire world going back hundreds and even thousands of years, and that each are talking about this moment in time… OUR TIME… 2012 has been totally debunked you say… really???


Well then if that is true, then please explain how a inland sea is about to be created and it happened in one night? Please explain that… Or how about all the fissures that have happened at night in North America, in South America, In Africa… and what about that one in Texas that is said to have been witnessed forming in just seconds? How about explaining the sea shore in Alaska being at sea level when the property owner went to bed, yet when he awoke 6 hours later a 20 foot hill existed in the morning… and nothing was recorded on earthquake monitoring censors anywhere in Alaska? How about at the beginning of this year, if it wasn’t for the fact that the old rector scales, scale was change/upgraded… 5 of the top 10 strongest earthquakes in all of recorded human history have happened this year… and 5 more are predicted … What about that spiral in Norway.. There is some evidence to suggest that that spiral was actually a plasma ball discharge from the Sun… If that is true, its never been seen before in modern times… Except… perhaps it was witnessed by thousands and thousands and thousands of supposed cavemen from every corner of the Earth who etched them into stone after stone after stone… why? I wonder if that’s simply what they saw… or perhaps… what they survived… They saw these spirals all over the world, all the time…. Perhaps they too thought it was nothing but an interesting light show… But then something horrific happened… and they put two and two together… and the shocked survivors simply sat down and spent hours and hours creating those spirals… Thousands of people the world over either kept having the same dream and each felt compelled to carve it into stone… or thousands of people survived, and because they too stated things like, Spiral End Time Prophecies have been totally debunked… the survivors spent those hours trying to warn mankind about the dangers of what is to come when you see those spirals start… Seriously those spiral carvings are all over the world… I wonder how many the world saw back then… thousands around the world have been etched into stones and mountain cliffs and caves throughout the world… I mean the one that happened in Norway was a local event, if it wasn‘t for the Internet and the News only some Norwegians would‘ve known anything about it… How many of those things would’ve had to be seen to have so many drawings of them everywhere? Are there many, many, many more to come? Well no, right??? Not if 2012 has been totally debunked…


(continue below)

[edit on 5-5-2010 by littlebunny]

reply to post by littlebunny continue from above


However, I would say unless you’ve studied everyone of the prophecies I’ve mentioned, you haven’t one damn clue what 2012 equals or what it doesn’t equal… Which begs the question… Even if you do believe 2012 is nothing to worry about, why bother even posting??? I mean I never ever post something about something I care nothing about… hell the thought has never even crossed my mind wasting time posting about something I consider to be a giant waste of time… Perhaps you’re a 2012 closet fearer??? I mean, the only way you can sleep at night is to scream its not real its not real… because the fact that so many things mankind has never witnessed before are happening literally right under our feet, and above our heads, and in our solar system… oh my god… that must explain it… this has got you people so scared denial is the only thing that is keeping you sane… A reverse the sky isn’t falling tactic… brilliant!!!


Seriously though… I honestly don’t know what’s going happen in 2012... If forced to give an answer I would say… 2012 is not about a specific date, more so then it’s a time stamp for a warning regarding a place in time, whether that equals 5 months of an alien invasion to 7 years of hell on Earth… I don’t know… I know I will keep reading and listening while trying to learn what the truth could be… And if I can help discover something knew along the way, well then right on… and that’s all this thread is about…


I discovered an answer to perhaps one of the coolest questions that has been re-asked for thousands and thousands of years. What is the purpose of those pyramids? Well I don’t know… but perhaps, just perhaps I accidentally discovered the day in which that answer will be shown to mankind… or perhaps I discovered a warning to mankind… when you see this planetary alignment hold on because its going to be a bumpy ride… Once again I don’t know what the answer is, but I know for a fact time will tell…


2012 has been totally debunked, what pure nonsense… I believe I just proved that the debunking debunkers have just been punked, I mean debunked!!!


--Charles Marcello



[edit on 5-5-2010 by littlebunny]

reply to post by littlebunny


Thank you for these informative posts.

reply to post by Phage


the pyramids align with orions belt, i'd do the source linky thing but i havn't the means right now, btw i heard by rumor that our sun aligns with our galaxy in 2012 rumor said first time this alignment has happened since before humans, but rumor might be lieing to me again

That picture that Chadwickus posted, how often does everything align like that? Sun, Moon, and the planets? I'm going to find a clear area away from cities to view that, looks amazing.

I'm confused can someone please answer me this:
Every search I've done for actual "planetry alignment" theories or discussion say there is NO alignment at all and nothing that is any different than any other year.. yet the picture Chadwickus posted contradicts this.

Are these people just talking about a literal alignment? There is still an alignment from our point of view here on Earth isn't there?

[edit on 5/5/10 by Nventual]

reply to post by littlebunny


Hi littlebunny. In your post you do some arithmetic manipulations with numbers and derive a date which is in the Gregorian system. The Gregorian calendar was developed about 4000 years after the pyramids. The numbers derived from what the Egyptians did would not be related to what we do. I was referring to the math below.

If you take the three sets of three pyramid groups at Giza, and add all of the three’s by two together… meaning, group 1, group 2, group 3.… add g1 to g2, g2 to g3, and g3 to g1, you get 6 plus 6 plus 6... 18... 18 plus Dec 3, equals Dec 21, 2012...

As you state in your subsequent post

it would appear they would’ve had to understand there is no way they could’ve known what kind of Calendar, Knowledge or Society would be around so many thousands of years into the future…

You have mentioned a time period of 27,370 years. Is this the time for precession of the axes? This is close to the current accepted rate of 25,772 years, which changes over time.

The pyramids were built about 4500 years ago. It's not clear if you supposing that the pyramids are much older than the reign of Khufu.

I find it a bit strange for an advanced civilization to leave behind so little information about a future date. The pyramids are big and impressive, but where is the supplementary information of drawings, charts, writings, etc. that describe anything at all. There are these pyramids and I have been there and they are amazing to see. But where is the other information?

reply to post by Nventual


Alignments do not mean that the planets form a literal line. They can't since the planets are not all in the same orbital plane. Ours we call the ecliptic. Other planets have planes that are tilted relative to the ecliptic. Mars has an inclination of 1.8 degrees. You might think this is small, but the full moon has a disc that is about a half a degree across. So 1.8 degrees is a little larger than 3 full moons across.

Alignments are things we see. They do not mean that the planets form a line. It's what we observe in the sky. Planets should form a rough line since they are all roughly orbiting in the ecliptic.

Other astronomical ideas you can search on:

conjunction - 2 bodies appear near each other in the sky
opposition - 2 bodies appear 180 degrees apart n the sky
syzygy - 3 or more bodies form a line, or when all planets are on the same side of the sun

reply to post by littlebunny


Littlebunny you are posted a lot of dis information here.

1. The tilted axes of the outer gas giants is not a new events. It is supposed to have happened billions of years ago.
2. Jupiter was definitely hit by an object that was small.
3. The Venus event has not been tied to an impact. It is possible, but the cause of the event has not been determined as it was in the case of Jupiter.
4. We are not being hit by more large meteorites.
5. NEAT was not a large comet. It was large enough to be viewed. Amateurs did not scream when they saw it because it was not an enormous comet.
6. The south pole telescope has a microwave telescope in addition to the infrared scope installed in 1993.

With all of these wrongs guesses or claims that seem to lead nowhere I can't figure out what your hype is all about.

The prophecies are stories. That's all they are. The claim that these prophecies point to any particular date is bunk. Synchronizing calendars incorrectly is the essence of these nebulous claims.

Now you go on to claims that I'd like to see proof of:
1. Inland sea created overnight - where and when
2. Fissures in the ground - give us the exact location of any
3. Give us the Date and time or link to the Alaska event
4. The earthquake claim is wrong - prove you are right by giving the list of top ten
5. The Norway spiral was a failed rocket launch
6. Stone petroglyphs spirals are less than a 1000 years old in the US - They are not associated with death in the US. Have you been watching that idiot Lucus?

When you say the pyramids I assume you mean the Egyptian pyramids. Why were they built? The Egyptians tell us in their prolific writing. They are tombs.

Has 2012 been debunked. Easily.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Nventual

 

Alignments do not mean that the planets form a literal line. They can't since the planets are not all in the same orbital plane.

I know, but looking at that picture, they appear to be in alignment from our point of view (even the sun and the moon). What I was wondering is, even though they are only aligned from OUR POINT OF VIEW, does this happen often like in that picture?

reply to post by Nventual


Yes. Conjunctions (2 objects) are common and happen every year. Do 3 or more line up? Take a look back 10 years ago from today and here is what we see lined up. It's the sun, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and the moon. Not bad is it?

Ten years ago today was the prediction of doom and gloom. There were predictions of earthquakes and volcanoes going off all over the place. Nothing happened.

Go to www.space.com... to double if you want.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16bd282d512a.jpg[/atsimg]

Oh, so it happens a lot.. well that sucked the fun out my plan to go to a clear area to look at the sky during that time. .__.
So what is this thing that's meant to happen every thousands of years? The equinox thing.

reply to post by Nventual


You should go out and look. It's really great. You get to see several planets. You get to spend some time figuring out what all of the other things are out there in the sky. Take the time to look for satellites. Maybe you'll see a meteor go by. If you have binoculars you should look at different stars and see what colors you can find. Check out the craters on the moon. The night sounds of insects, frogs, and birds add a great touch to the experience.

The equinox thing is kind of cool. The earth spins like a wobbly top. The north pole points at Polaris right now. We see that as that star appearing to be sort of fixed in the sky. Because there is a wobble the earth's north pole sweeps out a circle in the sky. Back track some 5000 years and a star called Thuban is the north star. It's interesting that such a dim star has a name. It does because it was a useful star 5000 years ago.

Axial precession - wikipedia

If you want to see a super rare event in 2012 try to see the transit of Venus across the sun. On June 6, 2012 Venus passes in front of the sun. I was able to view it in 2004. It won't happen again till 2117!

[schools-wikipedia.org...]Transit of Venus - wikipedia[/url]
There is a great diagram showing the tilt of the orbits and why a true alignment happens so infrequently.

You have 2 years to figure out how to safely view the event and hope for clear skies. Morning fog in our area burned off just before the event ended in 2004 so we lucked out.

[edit on 5-5-2010 by stereologist]

Not sure if Polaris is visible from Australia, but yeah I'm a smoker so every hour I watch the night sky for 5 minutes. Never see anything interesting anymore though. The moon is the most exciting thing but only when it's close to the horizon.

reply to post by Nventual


Have you seen the Magellanic clouds? You can also see Canopus, the brightest star visible from earth.

Magellanic clouds - wikipedia

Originally posted by stereologist

Go to www.space.com... to double if you want.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/16bd282d512a.jpg[/atsimg]

Well Hi There... Stereologist,

Your picture is incredible. Wow... I wonder what it looks like from the Earth? Oh that's right... Stereologist purposely picked a picture he knows damn well we here on EARTH could NOT see. How nice!!! And by the time is was visible it looks nothing like his picture, again, how nice of stereologist... Or perhaps… HOW ODD!!! Why would Stereologist purposely go through the process of trying to debunk something, while using a picture he must know can't be viewed by anything other then a computer program or from space? Oh that planetary convergence happened, no doubt… but it could not be seen from Earth... So is Stereologist saying ancient man had computers or flew in space??? ...umm stereologist is that what you’re saying??? … or is stereologist purposely using a picture in his attempt to debunk 2012? But the question becomes, why lie? why purposely use a picture, a planetary convergence that could not be seen from Earth in an attempt to debunk an alignment that can be seen from earth, and how it aligns with the Pyramids at Giza… Why would he do that? Why would anyone do that? That is just so weird… how nice for stereologist.


--Charles Marcello

Originally posted by stereologist
If you want to see a super rare event in 2012 try to see the transit of Venus across the sun. On June 6, 2012 Venus passes in front of the sun. I was able to view it in 2004. It won't happen again till 2117!

You have 2 years to figure out how to safely view the event and hope for clear skies. Morning fog in our area burned off just before the event ended in 2004 so we lucked out.

Some say, it can be seen from South America on that date in 2012... While still others claim it can only be seen from the Pacific Ocean... Which is damn interesting because of the importance the Mayan's put into that visual phenomenon and what it means for the entire lead up to Dec 21 2012. Let alone the prophecy regarding that year and their Gods... But, that's not why I responded to this post, I did so in an attempt to let everyone know where the best place, people say, is the best place on the planet to view that Venus crossing. Heck there is one person who believes hundreds and hundreds of years ago the Mayan's carved a jaguar into a rock cliff on an Island that exists hundreds of miles off the South American coast in an attempt to honor that passing... but that story and what it could mean for 2012 is something completely off topic... well, for now anyways...


--Charles Marcello

Hello again stereologist,


You've brought up so many things within this post, and your second post I truly don't have the time to spend at the moment to adequately address each one. Regarding your, "provide proof" statement, I would refer to the Fragile Earth Forum here on ATS and research until your heart is content. There is a lot of information within that one forum that will answer your questions. Instead of that website, www.the-rabbits-hole.com, and that liar (I do believe that is how you referred to Lucus, which I found damn interesting.) Lucus' website and all the referenced material he provides. What I do have time to do is attack your quazi attempt to confuse our Calendar and how it does in fact FIT any other calendar in the world.


As I'm sure you are aware... Planets and the placement of the moon and our Sun is all a person needs in order to figure out a place in time, whether that time is referring to the past or the future. And if a society that is alive or dead used that as well, then it doesn't matter how a society refers to their own local time... whether time is referred to as Gregorian or whether its referred to as a Baktun, or any other name you want to place to a local (current conceptual awareness of) Time. What is important... is if they used something else that our time can find correlation with/too. And as I'm sure you are well aware, that is exactly what I'm referring too. And as I'm sure you are also well aware, that is exactly what I've found. And as I'm sure you are also well aware, that is exactly what I was referring too when I mentioned g1, g2, g3. However your attempt to muddy the waters when the point was crystal clear, has me looking at you with extreme caution.


Which begs the question... what is your purpose on a website that talks about the year 2012? Why are you going out of your way to call people and the information they compiled, not information they made but information they compiled… a liar? Why are you trying to confuse people? We don't need a Calendar, we truly don't... We simply need everyone to understand the placement of the planets, moon and sun. Anything short of that, and then yes... Calendars are useful. But I know you already know this, what I don't know is why you are on this site and using some pretty good skills to help deflect or flame anyone bringing up the subject of 2012. And I don't know why you use information to make a point, that you know equals no point at all… but rather a purposeful attempt to derail or confuse. I mean I see the point in other aspects of life, but on a conspiracy website? If the truth was your goal, why use misleading information on purpose?

These are questions I will be searching for... and now they are questions that the rest of ATS can ponder as well.


--Charles Marcello


[edit on 5-5-2010 by littlebunny]

reply to post by littlebunny


Hi littlebunny how strange you comment that I purposely chose an image that we could not see when in fact I simply answered a question about alignments of the planets. It seems that your cheap shots are simply that - unwarranted comments. Thanks for misrepresenting the context in which the statement was made. Do you want to dispute that there were irrational and unjustified claims made of impending disaster due to that alignment?

I was not trying to debunk anything. This post was not in reference to the stupidity of 2012. I was asked if alignments were common. I found a 5 planet alignment which also included the sun and moon.

As far as ancient man knowing the positions of the sun, how do you think astrology works? When the zodiac sign is Leo where do you think the sun is? It obscures Leo because the sun lies in Leo. Do you think that the ancients needed computers to figure that out?

Before you spout do some basic resea4rch and find out about the post and its context.