A Creator - Who?

We really have 2 choices to make. Either believe that the universe has always just existed or believe that someone created it. I cannot accept the first argument that it has always existed, because the obvious question is why would it exist? That makes no sense. The idea of nothing existing also makes no sense. If nothing existed, what color would this nothingness be? Maybe it would be clear, but clear is still a concept that exists. It's hard to go anywhere with that choice.

However, if we choose to believe in a creator, then that opens up a whole other can of worms. Who was he, why did he create us, and above all, who created him? BUT, the easy way out for all of this is to understand that our creator is so complex, we cannot understand him or his living space. He obviously lives outside of time and space, and we have no information on what that place is like. Our brains are simply not equipped to deal with those concepts. So, we must stop trying to imagine God's motivations and just accept him and his will for us. If he created this whole vast universe and our consciousness, then he definitely knows what is best for us. Seek him and you shall find, or so the book says. You want to know God? A lot of people claim that they do in fact know who he is, by reading the bible and opening their hearts. Give it a try and see what happens.

Originally posted by EyesUpToTheHills
We really have 2 choices to make. Either believe that the universe has always just existed or believe that someone created it.

its a false dichotomy. you can believe in an infinite number of things. and belief is not a choice.

I cannot accept the first argument that it has always existed, because the obvious question is why would it exist? That makes no sense. The idea of nothing existing also makes no sense. If nothing existed, what color would this nothingness be? Maybe it would be clear, but clear is still a concept that exists. It's hard to go anywhere with that choice.

youre making the mistake that assuming nothing is actually something.
you have an empty box, what is the color of the contents of that box?
would it matter? if nothing existed nothing could perceive the color nothing. and taking a cue from your next to last sentence, color is still a concept that exists. so there wouldnt be color.

also the question "why would it exist" is assuming that there is a purpose to its existence.

Give it a try and see what happens.

gave it a try. all i found was sleep


[edit on 15-11-2009 by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest]

reply to post by EyesUpToTheHills


Take this in the knowledge of that which you speak about, and not be offended. No offence is intended...

Your heart may be in the right place, but you require more knowledge of your Root.

This why J.C. said "Man know thy self"???

You may know the flesh which is a descendant of A'Dam but J.C is telling you to know is to know your Soul which is your other body.

However, if we choose to believe in a creator, then that opens up a whole other can of worms. Who was he,

Rather "What" Not Who in the form of Him or Her, as He may Not be male in the sense that is taken for granted these days.

Perhaps Male was used to describe the "Inner"
And Female the "Outer".

The female component is the vessel hence the Mother of God...
The Male Component is the Contents...

And The Son; The Male Child ie "The Son of MAN"
(also known as "The Man Child" in Heaven and is so named in most of the 110 original Greek Versions of The Revelation of J.C. and Not "The Son of A'Dam".

MAN and "A'Dam" are two totally different Entities!

Think about it for a moment, without preconceived ideas taking hold of you.

why did he create us, and above all, who created him?

This can be explain also by them that do in fact know, without having to guess or believe in human interpretations etc....

BUT, the easy way out for all of this is to understand that our creator is so complex, we cannot understand him or his living space.

Not all are in this position... Some have the knowledge of their Root...
There is NO easy way out for You or for anyone!

From "The Dialogue of The Saniour"

Quote;

If one does NOT stand in the darkness,
he will NOT be able to SEE The LIGHT.

134.
If one does NOT understand
how The Fire came to be,
he will burn in It,
because he does NOT know his Root.

If one does NOT
First Understand The Water,
he does NOT know anything.

He obviously lives outside of time and space,

Correct!

and we have no information on what that place is like.

Not true. Some do have this knowledge! And don't need to guess...

Our brains are simply not equipped to deal with those concepts.

Not true.... You did not Create the human species... So how can you possible tell the Creator, the Creator is incapable of Creating one to understand???

So, we must stop trying to imagine God's motivations and just accept him and his will for us.

So why do you want to reject your parents (the Creator) teaching???

If he created this whole vast universe

This is your concept of the universe. That is to say it is vast in your words.

If you could understand, what you call your universe really is.

It is actually IN your Soul and Not outside it, as you are lead to believe by others.

But this is knowledge, that is given by grace by our Parent. (Creator)

and our consciousness,

Consciousness is both single and multiple... Consciousness is just another label for LIFE. But this requires knowledge to understand.

then he definitely knows what is best for us. Seek him and you shall find, or so the book says.

This is indeed correct....

Then why do you not believe this then?

If you do what you suggest, then all your answers will be answered for You...

You want to know God? A lot of people claim that they do in fact know who he is,

But they the Flesh or the descendants of A'Dam, create there own god and believe they now have, the knowledge of Truth.... Very, very sad....

by reading the bible and opening their hearts. Give it a try and see what happens.

In "The Gospel of Thomas" it is written;

Quote;

39.
Jesus said,

“The Pharisees
and the Scribes
have taken
The Keys of Knowledge
and Hidden Them.

They themselves
have NOT entered,
nor have they
allowed to enter
those who wish to.

You, however,
be as wise as serpents
and as innocent
as doves.”

And...

49.
Jesus said,

“Blessed are the Solitary
and Elect,
for you will find
The Kingdom.
For you are from it,
and to it
you will return.”

50.
Jesus said,

“If they say to you,
“Where did you come from?”

say to them,
“We came from The Light,
the place where The Light
came into being
on Its own accord
and established Itself
and became manifest
through their Image.”

[edit on 15-11-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

Your Mother and Father?
Your genetic creators?
What you think?

The Lord my creator is named
"ADONAI"

Exodus
Chapter 6
Verse 3

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest

youre making the mistake that assuming nothing is actually something.

If this is indeed true what you say, then why do we have the Word "Nothing" in our Language.

We can Identify Nothing, so if this is true then Nothing is Something which is Nothing...

ie There is "Nothing" in the box!

So because you and I can identify this, then proves that "Nothing" is in fact something....

It is a very, very, Important Component of the All.

It is the Paradox behind The All....

Humankind have difficulty dealing with the Paradox!

These Two; "Nothing" and "Something" are the Opposites within the Paradox.

As far as I am aware, the component "Nothing" is unique, regarding this phenomenon

So to pass through this wall, we need to find the 3rd State!

The Paradox consists of 3 Components and Not 2

reply to post by Gtown


Are you a child of your Creator?

Child being a little one.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


nothing is a concept we have.

i meant nothing as
there is not anything there at all.

Originally posted by spellbound
Please convince me that there was no creator of anything.

How did dark matter start?

How did stars and planets start?

How did anything start?

I think i know of a way that can give you a better understanding of your questions.

Think about existence and Non existence for a minute.

Then start to ask your self some questions. Like what is existence compare to Non existence. Does Non existence exist? Can existence evolve and expand without Non existence?

Start out easy. Begin with that existence is just Energy and Matter. And that Non existence is No Energy or Matter.

Its important to know that We can only observe existence. We can't observe Non existence. Because we cant measure or observe something that dosent exist.

Then ask your self: Which one is really infinite of Existence and Non existence.

Existence is actually a Finite. But Existence becomes a infinite because it can never become Non existing.
Existence can never disappear because Nothingness takes up all possible space. There is no space where existence can disappear to and become Non existing.

If you understand this. Its not hard to see that Non existence existed first. Because its infinite. Non existence can "Never change". Existence "changes all the time".

Existence needs the space of Nothingness to be infinite in.

Its quite neatly explained by how we determine what the 4 dimensions are.

The 4 dimensions are: (1)Height. (2)Length. (3)Width and (4)Energy and Matter. Now where is energy and matter located?

In between the 3 dimensions of Nothingness.

Only Energy and matter can determine time. The other three can not. Because they dont have a beginning or a end. There is no reference to where the three begin or end.

Now if this is clear. How did Existence come to be existing?

How did 1 enter the space of 0 existence?

Zero can never become 0.0000000.....9 or 1. There is a Gap between 0 and what we call existence. This is a gap no one really focuses on at all. I have asked many what connection is there between 0 and 1. I have never gotten a real answer to this question.

This gap is what some call God. But then the question becomes. How did God evolve from Non existence?

Can we have a existence without Non existence?

Well logically we can have Non existence without existence. But we can't have Existence without Non existence.

Not if you think about what time really is. Time is changes in energy and matter. At the time energy and matter is observed before it changes. Time is a finite existence. And the future is Non existing until the energy and matter has changed into a new time and new finite existence.




[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest

Originally posted by EyesUpToTheHills

youre making the mistake that assuming nothing is actually something.

Nothingness does exist if you have existence. Nothingness is also the most powerful power there is.

Nothingness is a infinite. Existence is a finite. That becomes infinite because it can't become Non existing.

The future is Non existing for the time being. Right.

But the future will come. Because Existence can't disappear.

reply to post by ELECTRICkoolaidZOMBIEtest


You are indeed Correct in that Nothing is a Concept but All is Created on Concepts!

You wrote...
Quote;

i meant nothing as
there is not anything there at all.

I am not being silly here ,but you wrote, "not anything there".

Think about this....

So because you are indicating "there" means that "Nothing" exists somewhere indicated by your word "There"!!

i meant nothing as
there is not anything there at all.

Do you see what I am getting at???

This Component "Nothing", is one component of the Paradox!

Its Opposite Component "Something", is the 2nd Component of The Paradox.

So what is the 3rd Component of The Paradox ???

When You discover the 3rd Component of The Paradox then You shall understand in a different way than now!

It is my understanding that the Paradox has always been!

So that "Something" that is "Nothing" has always Been.

All that is; has an Opposite...

So The Paradox has always been ????

But if The Paradox did Not exist then you and I would Not be!

You see The "Nothing" can be The Contents of "Something", But one can Not exist without the Opposite....

Hence The Paradox.

But as I have said there isn't only 2 Components in the Paradox, In fact there are 3 Components!

As in All equations....

[edit on 15-11-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Hello Matrix Traveller,

I hope that you will tell us what the third component to the paradox is.
Or perhaps direct us to the answer.

Your posts are always very enlightening!

After following many of your posts,
I have several questions that I would like to ask you!

reply to post by illusions


Thank you for your comments.

The third State is Awareness....

Theses three rely on each other and can Not exist each on ther own.

a. Nothing.
B Something.
c. Awareness.

The first two can't exist unless something is "Aware".

"Awareness" can't exist if there is not "Something".

And "Nothing" can exist if "Awareness" does Not exist.

"Nothing" can be in the place of contents.
It is Something that can Contain Nothing.

And if Awareness is Not present, then Existance can not exist, for even its self, that is something, if not "Aware" is Not known, then not anything can exist at all, Not even "Nothing".

The "All", implies simply that The All, not some.

So you see these 3 are 3 parts of one entity

All is made from "Opposites", that exist as "Conceptes" within a process that is strictly governed by rules. That is rules of a Process that has been written or retained in the form of a program of Concepts.

The "Up" can Not exist without the "Down", nor the "Black" without the "White", (but notoice in the case of Black & White, the third state is Gray that also contains colour), nor the "Left" without the "Right", etc etc.

Imagine an equation not having three parts???

I have also sent a U2U pm to you.


[edit on 15-11-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


This makes so much sense.

(Thanks for the U2U. I can't send U2U's yet)

I am looking forward to learning more.

reply to post by dodadoom

How about DNA evidence?

DNA evidence for what? The existence of God?

Hahahahaha!

I read your linked page. I understood what it meant--did you?

It's a pretty feeble apology (not argument) for the possibility of God based on the fact that junk DNA isn't so junky as first thought.

It's evidence for nothing.

Proof of creation is the very reason why you ask it

logical thinking is a must

do not confuse creation with a bloke in a toga, bad mistake and will lead to a answer that is wrong.

If i ask why does a dog have 3 legs.. your answer would be, but a dog does not have 3 legs..


you see my point i hope

reply to post by spellbound

Please convince me that there was no creator of anything.

If you hold a blind dogmatic belief in something without tangible evidence for holding that belief, then no one can easily sway you from that belief.

I would answer your questions, but after reading the replies from yourself to others whom already gave answers I've come to realize your just a worthless little troll looking to argue and not looking for any real answers. Yes, this is me talking down to you because I just had to deal with this same very kind of ignorant idiocy from another fellow very much like yourself in a separate thread. Your type really needs to stop posting bait threads just to piss and moan, please post something of substance and value rather than this nonsense and pointless retarded garbage as if you just had a long boring day in sped classes.

reply to post by sirnex


see this is the problem most atheists have..they are under the impression people believe on blind faith..this is far from the truth for most people i know who believe in a creator..

the evidence for a creator is astounding..you just have to not be biased and not try so hard to find alternatives

Originally posted by spellbound
Please convince me that there was no creator of anything.

How did dark matter start?

How did stars and planets start?

How did anything start?

Here's the answer.

Make sure you leave your skepticism at the door.

Originally posted by resonance
reply to post by sirnex

 

see this is the problem most atheists have..they are under the impression people believe on blind faith..this is far from the truth for most people i know who believe in a creator..

the evidence for a creator is astounding..you just have to not be biased and not try so hard to find alternatives

See, that's the problem... In order for their to be evidence you admit that one *has* to by nature be closed minded to other possible alternatives that could equally explain what we see without a creator. Look, I'm not against a creator, I'm just against man made created Gods and I'm against the arrogant idiocy that follows with the blind faith in them. Ignorance and arrogance is not that great of an attribute for one to strive towards in life.

Why can't people uphold a little humility and reserve before passing judgment on an absolute blind belief in something that when we're truly honest, there is no actual evidence for? Yes, I agree that the universe is suited for life, that's an obvious given, but that in itself doesn't scream "Holy sweet Jesus the Christians are right!" That's just arrogant idiocy right there and I want no part in that.

If the religious sector wants to strive for arrogant idiocy and claim absolute knowledge in where our universe came from while shooting down anyone who is actually trying to figure out where it came from and call them closed minded nitwits, then screw the lot of them. I could have answered his questions, but we both know that would have been pointless given the tone of how he asked and subsequently replied to others. That's another problem with the religious folks, they already think they have the answer. Arrogant little twerps. Perhaps people like that should heed their Gods teachings, maybe then such blatant idiocy and disregard for the human intellect won't be so prevalent.

reply to post by sirnex


But see this is what you fail to realize...the christian faith is different from all others...true christianity isnt even a way to control the masses and make money...yes it has been perverted..i dont even attend church

but saying there is no evidence is wrong...once you take in to account everything about what makes our life here so unlikely yet we are here anyway; the fact that history validates the bible; the fact that even being written by 40 different people it doesnt contradict itself once; and the fact that the OT has been around in written form longer than any other major religion and the ones it wasnt it predates orally..

if you look at the big picture and dont try to nit pick and find things wrong..the evidence is there..you just have to stop wanting it to be wrong