Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum

Three questions for the christians. If there was a woman who had an abortion for whatever reason and she was sick and she lived in the time of Jesus. And Jesus came to her town to heal the sick would Jesus heal that woman?
Another question if there was a man who collected taxes unfairly from the poor and he became sick and Jesus came to his town to heal the sick would he heal that man?

Last question if Jesus was dying on the cross and was flanked by a thief and a killer.And if those men asked for forgiveness would Jesus forgive them?

reply to post by Sestias


What do you really expect from an organization that would place you on the rack,burn your feet and ripped your finger nails off for believing that the sun was the center of the solar system.

"We are a non-profit, tax-free organization that seeks to better mankind as a whole... well, unless you're gay. In fact, if you even support those who are gay, we'll stop helping these people we say we actually care about, out of spite."

Nice conditional love Catholic Church, never change.

And they wonder why people keep gravitating towards other sects of christianity/other religions completely.

It's just like any minority.. you MUST cater to the minorities but you must NOT cater to the mainstream or you risk the penalty of Law. This is the stupidest thing ever with law.. it makes one group LESS equal than another even though they BOTH should have the same rights. And the kicker is some people like to think we are a democracy.. ( we aren't but that's another story) even in a democracy a minority would not be given privilege over the majority. This DC proposal is so unconstitutional it's not funny. I wonder how much Obama has to do with it.

It's about the time some heads in government roll. And I mean Literally. Off with their heads. No second chances to make stupid laws like this again. These people are traitors and the demand to be punished instead of skirting the Constitution!

Is Treason a good enough reason to outright KILL another human being? Once they swear on a Bible and break that oath.. you bet it is!

(or at least put them in prison for the rest of their lives)



[edit on 13-11-2009 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by bettermakings
I'm calling the whole article BS. Read between the lines. From what I've heard, the Catholic Church is being given a choice: start marrying gays, or lose all tax-benefits as a non-profit organization. They will of course refuse to marry gays, then leave the DC area to shambles. . .

I think the Catholic Church pretty much controls our government in the first place. They are the richer then any country in the world, and have the most impact and power.

Our government will agree to what they want, but it really isn't like either of the two care about 66,000 people with no more money to give either one of them.


Neither side are worried about right and wrong, but business.

I have been preaching on ATS forever about the evil of all churches.

Stop going to churches!

Boycott them!

If they have no people, they cannot exist.

Churches and manmade religion are evil!

Just believe in Jesus, and He will save you. Jesus has nothing to do with churches.

Originally posted by bettermakings
I'm calling the whole article BS. Read between the lines. From what I've heard, the Catholic Church is being given a choice: start marrying gays, or lose all tax-benefits as a non-profit organization. They will of course refuse to marry gays, then leave the DC area to shambles. . . which is exactly what DC wants, because they don't like the Catholic Church and want to get rid of them, and at the same time, the 68,000 people they help will either freeze to death this winter, or fall into the hands of the government to be taken care of, which is exactly what a Liberal government loves to do. Then they will blame it all on the Catholic Church. . . Case closed. . . I'll talk to you all in 6 months when it all comes true.

The proposed law does not say that the church, or any church, has to perform marriages for anybody. 30 years ago I was a clergyman. Technically still am but haven't done anything about it, including using the title, for three decades. But at the time, no one could force me to perform a marriage. No church ever has to marry anybody. The big problem is that they are accepting government money and he who pays the piper names the tune. They might have to give spousal benefits to the same sex spouses of their employees. Or lose the loot. I think that they should lose the loot. Regardless of how the vote goes. You take Caesar's gold, you belong to Caesar.

reply to post by christianpatrick


Now that was a well reasoned answer. Thank you for adding sense to this topic.

This is why I said let's call their bluff.

Originally posted by Seiko
I would like to call this bluff myself.

Other churches and groups will step in and take the burden from them in helping people in such a criminal and hedonistic wasteland. Surely the catholic church can regroup in the vatican, away from d.c. politics.

And if - due to the economy - other churches and groups don't have the money to pick up the slack? How do YOU know the other churches and groups have the resources to "step in"?

You do realize how elitist it sounds that you want to take away the aid a needy person depends upon to further your own agenda, right? Isn't that, in fact, what you are also condemning the catholic church for doing in this thread?

Hypocrisy alert.

Try thinking it through before posting next time ...

reply to post by centurion1211


It's so good to see you again my friend centurion. Yes I say call them on this. If you'll notice the points made here they are using donations to do this. Donations can go many ways and be used by many churches. If they step out there will be another ready to act in their place.

It seems they're unhappy here under our laws, and if this bothers them so much that they feel hobbled or crippled beyond their usefulness then it is time for them to step aside and allow a more able church or charity group in their steed. It would be the sensible thing to do.

Originally posted by Seiko
reply to post by centurion1211

 

It's so good to see you again my friend centurion. Yes I say call them on this. If you'll notice the points made here they are using donations to do this. Donations can go many ways and be used by many churches. If they step out there will be another ready to act in their place.

Oh, so they're using the donations from their parishioners to aid the needy? The parishioners who most likely also agree with the church's position on this subject - or they wouldn't be parishioners? Again, unless you are privy to the financials for all the different groups involved, it is only BS for you to say this.

It seems they're unhappy here under our laws, and if this bothers them so much that they feel hobbled or crippled beyond their usefulness then it is time for them to step aside and allow a more able church or charity group in their steed. It would be the sensible thing to do.

Or is it you that is unhappy here? And please identify the "more able church or charity groups" that have the resources to step in.

This is really important, so I want you to think hard on it: do you think the people receiving the aid give a ratz a$$ about the politics behind it, or do they just need the aid? Again, it is totally elitist to think that you can speak for them.

Keep in mind that I'm not defending the catholic church per se. Only their right to use their money as they see fit rather than have a politically correct agenda forced upon it - which is really what this is about.. I have no love for the catholic church - or any other organized religion for that matter.

Oh, and you sidestepped every one of my questions/comments.


[edit on 11/13/2009 by centurion1211]

reply to post by WickedStar


They are a private organization .. they don't NEED to help out people that have NO affiliation to the Church to alleviate the pain of the city. I'm glad to see the Church with some backbone. Tell DC to #% themselves!

The only thing funnier, is people in DC (and elsewhere apparently) are getting pissed off. You insult the church, make fun of them, disrespect them, then get mad when they stop acting nanny to you...

reply to post by centurion1211

Or is it you that is unhappy here? And please identify the "more able church or charity groups" that have the resources to step in. This is really important, so I want you to think hard on it: do you think the people receiving the aid give a ratz a$$ about the politics behind it, or do they just need the aid? Again, it is totally elitist to think that you can speak for them. Keep in mind that I'm not defending the catholic church per se. Only their right to use their money as they see fit rather than have a politically correct agenda forced upon it - which is really what this is about.. I have no love for the catholic church - or any other organized religion for that matter.

Once again, if they are unhappy with the law, they should not operate here. I'm not the one saying they can't perform the duty, they are. Your question on that account should be directed at them.

Would you like a list of other organized religions who do charity, they are quite numerous, and neither of us has the time to list them all.

Yes I'm happy here, I abide by the laws of my country. Are you suggesting they should not?

No I don't think the needy care about the politics, nor which hand reaches out to them in assistance.

No one is forcing them to do anything, they are free to opt out and leave.

I'm sure the Episcopal church will step up in whatever capability they have . The national cathedral in D.C. is Episcopal, and with the recent moves by the pope to lure Anglicans to the catholic church, I'm sure they're looking for any opportunity to put some egg on the Pope's face...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Fearful that they could be forced, among other things, to extend employee benefits to same-sex married couples, church officials said they would have no choice but to abandon their contracts with the city.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Whoaaa nelly...

The Catholic Church is saying they employ same-sex married couples??????

I smell BS.

reply to post by WickedStar


Wromg. Catholic and Christian are VERY different things. People need to stop confusing the two. The Catholic church stands for very different things and they worship a different god. Not God. Ask any Catholic, they probably prayed to Mary - not Jesus Christ.

reply to post by fbnks


wow. that's just about the most ignorant statement i've ever read on the internet. at least in the top five.

you do realise that every sect of christiantiy, and even jews and muslims all worship the same god right? the god of abraham. i'm not by any stretch of the word, christian, and it appears i know more about it than you do.

reply to post by WickedStar


I hope DC revokes their "non-profit" status.

reply to post by maybereal11


No - what they are saying is that when /if the gay marrage proposition passes in D.C. they [the church] would be legally bound to provide same sex marrage benefits to their gay employees...when they marry their partners.

Originally posted by centurion1211

You do realize how elitist it sounds that you want to take away the aid a needy person depends upon to further your own agenda, right? Isn't that, in fact, what you are also condemning the catholic church for doing in this thread?

Hypocrisy alert.

You are mistaken. It is not hypocrisy...it is INTEGRITY. Many of the needy will sell their souls for a piece of bread and cowtow to organizational dictates, no matter how demeaning to the human spirit, just to have a floor to sleep on out of the cold.

It's not that the poor do this of their own volution. The organizations requires them to grovel in order that they recognize their spiritual superiors and respect the display of divine benevolence of giving them the crumb from the rich man's table.

When you are desperate food may become more important than principles.

What the poster is suggesting is that if we stand up for principle and have integrity of not compromising our soul for that crumb of pretentious piety...then maybe the institutions indignity to humanity will cease. There will be another way to take care of the poor. Right now, it's just that these institutions seem "better organized." But it's always true that when one door closes, another will open.


[edit on 13-11-2009 by Alethea]