Obama is to blame for the economy? I think not!

Originally posted by Raud
reply to post by MysterE

 

I would still stick to my opinion though, the former administration did wreck the system as if there was no tomorrow (which it in fact wasn't, for their sake).

If you want to be intellectually honest, Bill Clinton wrecked the economy beyond repair on November 2 ,1999 with the repeal of Glass-Stegall which tore down the wall between investment banks and S&Ls. Barney Frank (D-Mass) also has his fingerprints all over this mess with the passage of the Community Reinvestment Act which required lenders to make risky loans to low-income minorities to purchase housing. In 2003 and 2005 when the Bush Administration was making waves that the CRA was putting financial institutions in jeopardy for requiring them to finance these risky loans, Frank immediately defended the requirements stating that neither Fannia Mae or Freddie Mac were in any financial danger. 3 years later Fannie needed $34.2 Billion and Freddie needed $51.7 Billion to remain solvent.

I agree, when evaluating the cause of the financial meltdown, denying ignorance is king!

reply to post by Raud

A thread with your post as OP might have done better.

Thanks I have tried a couple of threads but no interest. So I try to knock a bit of knowledge in to others on their threads.

Perhaps one day people will realize it is not dem/left against Rep/right but the serfs against the Banking/corporate elite.... Sigh

reply to post by crimvelvet


Amen crim! I've been trying to do the same. It's a "Divide and conquer" strategy employed by those who would see a "New World Order" AKA a global government and currency. However, I have been warned too many times in other threads - so as a result, I try to stay on topic when ever possible.

Speaking of topics, BOTH parties have had ample opportunity to fix the problems that have given rise tot his crisis and BOTH parties have seen fit to either do nothing or enact policies which have clearly exacerabted the problem.

All I have to say is I agree with a few posts earlier.

BUT: The answer to any deficit money problem isn't to spend more.
Exactly what this administration is doing.

reply to post by Raud


The fact that you quote 3 HARD left groups as proof shows you are "enthusiasticly" supporting him and his agenda regardless of Obamas choices for the nation. O.K. but not exactly looking at the cold hard facts...more like "please read these facts I hand picked to support my arguement."

I think Bill Cosby has it in perspective:

Bill Cosby has a great way of "distilling" things. Looks like he's done it again!


AMERICA NEEDS A CANDIDATE WITH THIS PLATFORM!!

I HAVE DECIDED TO BECOME A WRITE-IN CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT IN THE YEAR 2012
HERE IS MY PLATFORM:

(1). Any use of the phrase: 'Press 1 for English' is immediately banned. English is the official language; speak it or wait outside of our borders until you can.

(2). We will immediately go into a two year isolationist attitude in order to straighten out the greedy big business posture in this country. America will allow NO imports, and we'll do no exports. We will use the 'Wal-Mart's policy, 'If we ain't got it, you don't need it.' We'll make it here and sell it here!

(3). When imports are allowed, there will be a 100% import tax on it coming in here.

(4). All retired military personnel will be required to man one of the many observation towers located on the southern border of the United States (six month tour). They will be under strict orders not to fire on SOUTHBOUND aliens.

(5). Social Security will immediately return to its original state. If you didn't put nuttin in, you ain't gettin nuttin out. Neither the President nor any other politician will be able to touch it.

(6). Welfare. -- Checks will be handed out on Fridays, at the end of the 40 hour school week, the successful completion of a urinalysis test for drugs, and passing grades.

(7). Professional Athletes -- Steroids? The FIRST time you check positive you're banned from sports .... for life.

(8). Crime -- We will adopt the Turkish method, i.e., the first time you steal, you lose your right hand. There is no more 'life sentences'. If convicted of murder, you will be put to death by the same method you chose for the victim you killed: gun, knife, strangulation, etc.

(9). One export of ours will be allowed: wheat; because the world needs to eat. However, a bushel of wheat will be the exact price of a barrel of oil.

(10). All foreign aid, using American taxpayer money, will immediately cease and the saved money will help to pay off the national debt and, ultimately, lower taxes. When disasters occur around the world, we'll ask The American People if they want to donate to a disaster fund and each citizen can make the decision as to whether, or not, it's a worthy cause.

(11). The Pledge of Allegiance will be said every day at school and every day in Congress.

(12). The National Anthem will be played at all appropriate ceremonies, sporting events, outings, etc.

My apology is offered if I've stepped on anyone's toes.... nevertheless....


GOD BLESS AMERICA !


Sincerely, Bill Cosby

reply to post by Raud



I can't give him a free pass on the issue, primarily because I think he's taken the wrong approach. Much like his predecessor, he is attempting to spend his way out of this recession and in the process, he is trading a short-term gain for the longer-term value of the dollar. In other words, sure, if you throw $787 billion of new money into the economy, its bound to have some positive effect, but eventually, when the employment situation improves, you're going to pay the price in the form of inflation...a lot of it...and reduced purchasing power for consumers, which just leads you back to where you started or worse.

In that sense, the economic death spiral you mentioned is being caused by unchecked growth in federal expenditures and deficit spending, all in the hopes of gaining some short term favor with the voters. Until both parties figure this one out and that there's no easy, painless fix, the trajectory is going to continue downward.

reply to post by Raud

Still, it doesn't prove Obama is the reason for all this. But your point is totally taken.

My point has never been to PROVE Obama is the reason for all this. My point is that the bankers and politicians have been in collusion for over 90 years. That the bankers and their buddies in offices have stolen the wealth (different from money) from the citizens of the USA.

Obama is only different in degree. By doubling the money supply this spring he doubled the amount of wealth (our labor) that Americans must now hand over to the bankers and that does not include interest and the money created by fractional reserve practices.

Most people get "wealth" and "money" confused.

What is the difference between Money and Wealth?

In The Wealth of Nations, Adam smith defined wealth as "the annual produce of the land and labor"..Wealth creation is combining materials, labor, land, and technology so there is an excess for trade to others, that is “a profit” in excess of the cost of production. The theories of David Ricardo, John Locke, John Stuart Mill, and Henry Thornton, in the last three centuries refined the views of wealth and became known as classical economics.

Money: Is Coin, Currency (paper money), and Credit. If the paper money is not backed by gold, silver or other “wealth” it is a fiat currency and only as good as the people's ignorance of its origin. Federal Reserve notes, and credit is “created” by banks and backed by nothing.




As I said before we need to get past the left/right junk to where the battle really is:serf vs banker.

reply to post by kozmo

If you want to be intellectually honest, Bill Clinton wrecked the economy beyond repair

You forgot Clinton ratifying the World Trade Organization that opened our borders to contaminated food and cheaply made crap and exported the rest of our manufacturing jobs and industry.

We have LESS manufacturing jobs in 2006 than we did in 1970.


Statistics showed in 1990, before WTO was ratified, Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002 this had increased to over 70% of U.S. GDP. www.fame.org...

A real eye opener isn't it. But it gets worse. The Department of Homeland Security says 80% of our ports are operated by Foreigners and they are buying and running US bridges and toll roads. www.alabamaeagle.org...

This is a sampling of the industries with over 50% foreign ownership, according to Source Watch

* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Wineries and distilleries - 64%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
* Coal mining – 48%

Great replies everyone, thankful for all response.

I've once again learned some stuff that I might not have taken into consideration, and I hope others have learned something worthwhile as well.

The opinion I had in the OP stands, but maybe I need to make it clear once more;

What I react against is that there is a lot of "unfocused" and biased hate (more or less) against President Obama.
That is what I had grown tired of (even though I know there is a hell lot more of where that came from).
I just felt this need to join in for a while as long as the word is still free

I have the feeling (from reading through other threads) that people had forgot about the prior administrations and their faults, blaming everything on the current. I stand by my statement that such behaviour is ignorant.

What the result will be from having Obama in office for one term we cannot know just yet. We have to wait and see.
But we cannot live in total oblivion; there is so much more pain to have. As I said before; the rot is deep, real deep.

I guess we all have to comply to the following;
We cannot know anything of what the future holds if we do not look at history. It's one hell of an epic chain of events.

Personally, I can't believe the guts a man gotta have to step out in this political and economical quagmire and say "I will bring you change!".
I wouldn't even dream of that.

I ask again; what would the president of your dreams have done?
Is there even the gist of a breath of a chance that McCain or anyone else could have sorted everything out? In 10 months???

Take care all, I am about to reap even more havoc in some other new thread of mine!

reply to post by savageheart

think Bill Cosby has it in perspective:

Bill Cosby has a great way of "distilling" things. Looks like he's done it again!

If he really runs I will vote for him. Heck I will even campaign for him. Where can I sign up.


doing back flips with enthusiasm!

Originally posted by Raud
I just can't stand the totally ignorant "Obama-bashing" over the economic situation in the USA (yeah, I used the term "ignorant" and I used it properly for once in this forum).

The totally rampant dislike of President Obama needs some form of perspective.
I don't call on every American man, woman and child to blindly embrace the "new" administraion. In fact, I want them to be awake and always observe their government with a healthy dose of critisism. Your country and its leaders are there to serve you and protect your liberties. Not the other way around (which it has been like many times over in history, not only in the USA).

But let's cut to the chase here; this thread is about the following:

Before you accuse and disrespect President Obama over the economics, take a look at the mess he has to clean up!
I am talking about the craziness during the 8 prior years to the current Presidents time in office.
There you will find why unemployment and tax increase are the only bitter reality!

Read. Think. Understand. Revaluate. Talk. Walk.

July 31st, 2008

"The current administration will leave the nation with its largest deficit in history"

Committee on the budget

This and other efforts of the “Bush Legacy Project” to rehabilitate the last administration’s job creation image and defend its tax cuts ignore the stark reality that the Bush administration’s tax policies fostered the weakest jobs and income growth in more than six decades, and ignored alarming labor market trends in minority communities. This record of anemic job creation was accompanied by sluggish business investment and weak gross domestic product growth that characterized the period after the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 went into effect.

Center for American Progress

This one is a little older, but still valid:

The Administration and congressional Republicans predicted that the President's tax cut plan would turn the economy around. Those predictions proved false - instead of a quick economic turnaround, the country still has fewer jobs than it did when the recession began three and a half years ago. This is the longest period of job losses since the Great Depression.

Democratic Policy Committee

So, the current President is to blame for this?
I think not!

[edit=fix thread title]


[edit on 12-11-2009 by Raud]

Obama is to blame... HE PROMISED CHANGE!

what did he bring us ???? THE SAME POLITICANS FROM THE SAME FAMILIES THAT HAVE BEEN RUNNING WASHINGTON FOR 100 YEARS.

If this man actually wanted change, he would have looked to bring in NEW BLOOD TO WASHNINGTON

[edit on 12-11-2009 by SirPatrickHenry]

reply to post by vor78


Well I am in the middle. I thought Bush was horrible President, but he DID NOT start the economic crisis....I also voted for Obama and I don't think the economic crisis is his fault either.

Obama in my book is getting a "C" in economic recovery policies right now.....but I reserve the right to adjust my grade upwards or downwards 6 months from now.

We are recovering....I am not sure that government policy is responsible for a great deal of that....just as government policy was not responsible for a great deal of the things that started the crisis.

Hanging the US Economy around the kneck of one man is a little silly and I think when we take off the colored glasses we know that.

reply to post by maybereal11

Obama in my book is getting a "C" in economic recovery policies right now.....but I reserve the right to adjust my grade upwards or downwards 6 months from now.

Please get some more information. The US economy is in a world of hurt irrespective of who is to blame (the bankers in my opinion)

I wrote this six months ago When I learned The US money supply had been doubled.

What has been done to the USA and the money supply?
1985 -- $205 billion -- up $103 billion
1994 -- $406 billion -- up $201 billion
2006 -- $808 billion -- up $402 billion
2008 -- $831 billion -- up $23 billion
2009 -- $1663 billion -- up $921 billion

Money supply research.stlouisfed.org...


By April 2009 The Fed PRINTED close to a TRILLON dollars in three months, with Obama's blessing and thereby doubled the money supply. Bankers LEND money to the US government at interest and the US government grants bankers the right to PRINT that money out of thin air. Worse for every three dollars in treasury notes issued that a bank “buys” the bank can create $97 worth of “credit” or fairy dust. American labor will now have to pay all that counterfeit money back to the bankers along with interest. What happens to the value of the dollar over seas during all this “money printing” The Chinese and Russians want to replace the dollar as the internationally recognized trade currency. If the rest of the world refuses to accept the dollar we will have a “soft currency” worthless outside the USA.


Now think about all the money Congress is spending. The treasury will create bonds to cover the amount as the above table has shown. The question is do these numbers represent the multiplier effect yet? I would think not since there has not been enough time for banks to lend out the same dollar to ten different people and then collecting the interest and principle back...

So what will the effect of creating this huge amount of money cause the American dollar to be seen as “soft “ currency? Will the USA see confidence lost on the dollar and an international run on the Federal Reserve as was seen in 1933? Is this why the US government is assigning “premises ID” to valuble farmland and livestock?

Hard Currency: “American currency is so stable that it is used world wide for business deals and ventures...Soft currency on the other hand is defined as a country's currency which is not acceptable in exchange for currency of other countries, due to unrealistic exchange rates. www.freeonlineresearchpapers.com...

In the coming months and years will the US dollar lose its "hard Currency" status, will it become a "soft currency with no real value? Will we need a wheelbarrow full of dollar bills to buy a loaf of bread?

So far the US has already lost its world reserve currency status, we do not know what is in store for us down the road but I doubt it is an improving economy.

Since most citizens have no training in economics and those who do are trained only in Keynesian Economics and have no real knowledge of the Federal Reserve, the true horror of what has been done to the US economy is not understood.

Keynesian Economics is all about helping bankers transferring your wealth into their pockets. (my Hubby corrected that to be your wealth AND your childrens wealth)

They [founders of the Fed] gave large amounts of money to some of the better known universities in America; they created newly formed departments of economics with that money; they hand picked their own people to be the professors to head up those departments and then those professors with all of their academic credentials gave speeches and wrote scholarly essays extolling the virtues of the Federal Reserve System. A Talk by G. Edward Griffin Author of The Creature from Jekyll Island

If you do not trust G. Edward Griffin there is Secrets of the Federal Reserve by Eustace Mullins or A PRIMER ON MONEY: Congressional COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND CURRENCY


Spend a few hours learning how our money system and the Fed works before you listen to the politicians or the banker bought media.


This can be verified in the Congressional Record. In 1917 it was reported that "...the J.P. Morgan [banking] interests.... and their subsidiary organizations got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press of the US.... They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. ...an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information...." Real Conspiracies: Past and Present

In the eyes of Obama supporting dems, obama will never have to face the music. After 8 years of destroying the economy, a commonly used phrase by team obama. This is the "out" Obama has.

If he is not re-elected, 4 years is clearly not long enough to fix the mess. So no blame after a single term. If it is not fixed after he is in for 8 years and then during the next potus's first term the economy begins to improve, obama will likely get the praise for it, for all he did during his term.

This is how it works. Its almost like every current president is never responsible for the time they are in office, only for the years following their term/s.

So using this logic...... Clinton is responsible for 9/11, and the set-up of the economic collapse. Bush is responsible for pushing it over the edge and Obama will be the hero to fix it(after he is gone)

Sarah Palin is going to bring the manchilds reign of terror to an end.
God damn america NO!God bless America!And God Bless Sarah Palin!(in reverand wrights voice)

[edit on 13-11-2009 by genius/idoit]

Originally posted by kozmo


If you want to be intellectually honest, Bill Clinton wrecked the economy beyond repair on November 2 ,1999 with the repeal of Glass-Stegall which tore down the wall between investment banks and S&Ls. Barney Frank (D-Mass) also has his fingerprints all over this mess with the passage of the Community Reinvestment Act which required lenders to make risky loans to low-income minorities to purchase housing. In 2003 and 2005 when the Bush Administration was making waves that the CRA was putting financial institutions in jeopardy for requiring them to finance these risky loans, Frank immediately defended the requirements stating that neither Fannia Mae or Freddie Mac were in any financial danger. 3 years later Fannie needed $34.2 Billion and Freddie needed $51.7 Billion to remain solvent.

I agree, when evaluating the cause of the financial meltdown, denying ignorance is king!

17 Times Bush tried to get them to get fannie and freddie's act together and even John McCain wrote a bill to bring them under stricter controls but that didn't even make it out of committe. Who opposed it?

Barack Hussein Obama!

Lets not forget Obama was the number two in getting money from fannie and freddie so he had the most obligation to them. Barney Frank ought to be shot. What a JERK that guy is. Now we have a twelve trillion dollar debt which makes it impossible to keep up with the interest on the loans.

Cap and Trade was the most stupid move Obama could have made, then we have health care exascerbating the situation when that can wait till we get JOBS created. Obama has not created jobs and he is NOT going to, he knows nothing about how Business thinks or how it works, but he knows how to scare the crap out of business startups into stayputs.

Obama's entire cabinet is wall streeters and lobbyists, WHO DO YOU think he is going to SCREW?

Obama is a Calamity, a charleton a liar and a cheat because eight years of bush wasn't enough so they had to get someone that would finish us off

I give you Barack Hussein Obama!



[edit on 13-11-2009 by Kerry_Knight]

In my opinion, nobody gets a pass on our misery. Bush #2 got the ball rolling with his deficit spending, and Obama is finishing the job.

Obama is geting into hyper drive to ruin us. Everything he has done, has made the problem worse. Outside of his personal cabinet, and the businesses getting the bailouts, no one, and I mean no one, says that the bailouts will work. the proof is in the pudding. The first money is gone, and most want more. There was no "more" to begin with, and there's certainly no "more" to give away now.

As a nation, we were broke before they started giving the bailouts out, and we are past broke now. a grade school child can see the folly of this action. All our government on both sides seem to be dead set on ruining us, any way they can. Both sides have had their chance at sensible repairations, and BOTH sides have failed.

Nothing remains but sweeping up the leftovers--that's the rest of the country. I am amazed at how long Obama and his kool-aid drinking minions continue to blame Bush for all the problems we are facing. I guess he'll be doing that till the end of his unmercifully long term in office. Bush screwed up things plenty, now's the time for Obama to grow a set, and take blame for this mess on his watch. Everyday, it becomes more and more evident, that what he's doing ain't working. Try something else.

And yes Obama, you occupy the office, you are to blame, it goes with the territory.

reply to post by PowerSlave

This is how it works. Its almost like every current president is never responsible for the time they are in office, only for the years following their term/s.

I remember this very clearly because I was a bit shocked the media had jumped on Bush before he had time to do anything. I was also worried the media was trying to push the US into a recession.

The news media started blaming Bush for "the economic recession" the first day he set foot in office in January 2001, even though at that time it was a strong economy. By March 2001, after three months of the media trumpeting that news, we were in a recession. So if Bush was responsible in MARCH that means Obama was responsible in MARCH.

Bye the Bye note how the banker controlled media managed to kill consumer confidence to help trigger the 2001 recession. Now the media is doing the reverse trying to hide the fact we have slid into a depression so the American public will not call into question the new big costly programs like Health Care, Cap and Trade and farmer/homegarden regulation.



Using the broadest measure of unemployment and underemployment tracked by the Bureau of Labor statistics, Unemployment has reached its highest level in decades, almost certainly the highest level since the Great Depression. -- 17.5 percent -- were unemployed or underemployed in October 2009. The previous recorded was 17.1 percent, in December 1982.


This article is worth looking at since it has some very good graphs showing the history of the economy and unemployment

Jan 16, 2009 The Market Oracle

.... The government reports an unemployment rate of 7.2% to the public. This figure does not include discouraged workers or marginally attached workers. A discouraged worker is one who is willing, able and ready to work but has given up looking because there are no jobs to be had.

This level is currently 13.8%. During the Clinton administration, The Party decided that if you were discouraged for more than a year, you no longer counted. If these people are included, the current unemployment rate is 17.8%. This is a comparable figure to the 25% rate from the Great Depression. If you use the non-seasonally adjusted change in employment figures, the U.S. lost 2.8 million jobs in 2008. In this figure is a made up number that is supposed to account for the number of jobs gained or lost by small business. This birth/death model adjustment added 904,000 phantom jobs in 2008. This is an insult to the intelligence of all thinking American....

When using the real inflation figures, you realize that we have been in a recession since 2000. This explains why the majority of Americans have fallen behind in the last eight years. The median household income was $50,557 in 2000. Using the government CPI adjusted figure for 2007, median household income had fallen to $50,233. If you used real inflation, the figure would be in the range of $47,000. Trickle down hasn't worked as advertised. Only the rich ruling elite surged ahead. The criminals on Wall Street partied like it was 1999, while the middle class fell further into oblivion. Now that the rich are losing their shirts in the market, we have a REAL crisis. All the government information manipulators are working around the clock to spin the story in a way that will ensure permanent government control of our economy and our lives....

I agree. I started a similar thread a while back...

www.abovetopsecret.com...