If hell is real, this is why it doesnt make sense.....

im no christian but i do believe in the concept of the garden of eden and us being kicked out.. we got jealous of god and ate the "the fruit of knowledge" because we thought we could do it just as good as him... so he kicked us out of the garden of eden... to "hell" but he didnt kick us out for us to make it on our own... he wants us to realize how dependent we are on him.. god is the food we eat the air we breath our friends and family he is everything.. he is the conciousness of the universe.. like we are the conciousness of our bodies... it wasnt just lucifer who fell from grace it was all of us.. and thats what i think the ego is... our seperation from god.. the ego tells us we can do it ourselves... but we cant.. we're still alive because he pities us we are his children.. whoever said theres nothing to fear but fear itself is a #ing liar... we're supposed to be scared its natural... its the natural way of acknowledging your dependency upon god... this is what i think about hell..

i know i said him the whole time but i apologize for my ignorance gods definately a hermaphodite

Dude, i totally agree. The way you've explained it it would seem, from a spiritual perspective, like playing soul roulette with one chip. The stakes: an eternity in heaven if u win, hell if you lose. The odds, god is crying in his sleep at the odds! I'm sure god would be more understanding than most assume. I know that my dog will dig up and kill my flowers, he'll knock over my rat cage and kill the animal, not for food. He'll scratch the car, rip the garbage, mate the neighbours dog, eat slippers... But after my anger and smoting he's my dog and i love him and i forgive him he is always welcome in the kingdom of my heart. Isn't that what god is? A love undeniable, unconditional, the very essence that is in all of us and all around us


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gods that and everything else in this universe.. hypothetically speaking you are a god and your body is your universe.. each living cell in your body has its own conciousness of its whole... but its still apart of your whole and you maybe try and take care of your body because you know you need it to live.. its the same thing with god... we are part of gods body. part of his conciousness. of course he cares and loves us deeply. we are him.

reply to post by dominicus

i didnt read all the comments and stuff, im replying straight to the question of this post, i've browsed the internet and read allkinda stuff here and there, and instantly this 1 topic came to my mind.
this is about how i understood it

lets start in this place where you "signed" to exist in earth the odds against you, this place would be something like parallel universe where you are a spirit or one with all as some say the oneness, anyhow it would be a level beneath earth, start ascending from there you sing to exist on earth and mature, learn, evolve your soul to the next level.

my point is that in the topic i stumbled over, earth is a place where we.. hard to find the right words (english is not my national language)
"play" around and learn to understand about space around us. can't explain it any better hope you get somesort of a vision about what i wrote

God, or the christian interpretation doesn't make sense at all. All you have to do is look at the Qauran, the bible of islam, the book itself teaches that killing is lawful and can be done to anyone who is not a muslim, so therefore allah is not the same god as in the bible, so i doubt there is a hell anyways.
Throught this topic there will be many christians quoting a very old book as fact, they are ignorant as they do not take into account scientific reasoning. Im not a bible basher, we all need faith and spirituallity but im certain the god that christians, muslims and jews cling on to and search for does not live in the bible or quaran.

The answer lies within our minds.

I really don't understand people who truly believe in Hell, simply due to the logical reasoning for it's improbability, much like God.

How can one's eternal soul/energy/being be based on the very *finite* actions of a mortal life? 60-80 human years isn't even a spec in the dust of the Universe. Are we to believe that some "god" will cast you into a lake of burning fire for eternity for your actions of a mere 80 years when the universe is already billions of years old and will be around for a few billion more?

And what of someone who came from a society where fighting, death and conquering were their way of life. What about the Spartans? The Romans? The Vikings? They all killed and fought and believed in what they were doing because the lived under their "god/s" rule. Do they burn in hell?

Or did the rules all change because of some human named Jesus? WHat about someone growing up on a desert island and is never told any different? Does he go to hell? If not, why does he get the exception clause? What's the rules for the exceptions? Where are they written down in full?

Sorry, but Hell is completely rubbish. It was created out of the minds of the uneducated, the scared and weak many thousands of years ago and used nowadays as a means of control. That's all. My opinion, of course. I have no evidence, apart from common sense.

reply to post by dominicus

somethings have been left out of the story??

like, ummm......david knew of christs existance before he was born, and had placed his hope in him. I'm pretty sure he didn't know the actual name of christ, or much at all about him, but it was promised, and he believed and put his faith in that promise, so he was "saved". the lack of knowledge did not hinder this.
so, now let's take some one who was living far away from the judeo-christian homeland. can't God also speak to this person also? ya, the words might be different, the names might be different, but couldn't he convey the same message of hope to them and be heard....and the lack of understanding and knowledge would not hinder them?

and well, then there's also the possibility that God does not send anyone to hell, that some would chose to go there instead of bowing to God...what was the statement that lucifer made, oh , ya, I would rather rule in hell, than serve in heaven!!
well, now days, I think there are many that would rather continue on gathering their wealth, doing as they please, ruling over the masses, than live in heaven as a servant!

of all the possibilities, I think the last one I mentioned is more likely....people just chose not to accept heaven!

reply to post by dominicus


Here's what doesn't make any sense to me. Atheists always say, it doesn't make sense to send anyone to Hell because they did something wrong like lied or stole just once or twice because EVERYONE makes mistakes right? Yes, that includes both you and me.

Oh what if I stole two times? Oh I'm still a good person right? Three times? 80 times? Where's the line right? What if I stole 80 times from you? Am I still a good person? Can I murder 10 people? What's the magic number before I'm not a good person anymore and should be sent to Hell? Who do you think should get to sent to Hell?

Nobody? Maybe that's a possibility. Okay, but basically that's saying well we shouldn't be punished spiritually for what we do. Okay, I can buy that. I'll even agree with that. Makes perfect sense. Shouldn't be punished in Hell for eternity for a few mistakes we made while we were alive. Alright, Gotcha.

So then the Bible says well just believe in Jesus and try to be as Christ like as possible and try to change. Maybe you were a bad person, but maybe you can change and be a better one. You might not get it perfect, but I'm not gonna send you to Hell for a few mistakes here or there.

So, the Atheists turns right back around and become hypocrites and says that's bunk. Why should I have to believe in Jesus? Why should I have to live my life like someone else tells me? I should be able to do whatever I want? You're going to send me to Hell just because I don't believe in Jesus? That's stupid! I can live my life just fine without the Bible!

Okay, right, so I get it. You want your cake and eat it too. You shouldn't be punished for what you do. You should be able to commit as many sins as you want and lie and steal and cheat, and murder, but you're still basically a good person right? Everybody makes mistakes right? I've heard that just too many times.

But they don't want to believe in Jesus either, or do Jesus's work, or try to change either. So, they basically think, well I can do whatever I want, and make no effort whatsoever to do a single thing Jesus asked me to do even though he DIED for my sins and I can't even get off the friggin couch for him yet I still expect some kind of reward from him and be allowed into Heaven because I shouldn't be sent to Hell right?

Not little old me? My skins just too sensitive to that kind of thing right? Well hey if it's gonna be that kinda party maybe I'll just not show up to work and still expect a paycheck. I mean why not?

They're all just spoiled little children that don't want to be punished for what they do, but they don't want to be punished for not believing either. So basically, you think you should just get a free ride right? That's what you're saying right? No matter what you do, you should just get a free ride right into Heaven? Good luck with that.

But, maybe you're right. Maybe Hell isn't real. Maybe you won't be punished. After all, Hell is mainly a Catholic or Catholic like belief where even a good majority of Christians don't even believe in Hell. But I'll tell you one thing, with that attitude you sure won't get no reward from anyone either. But maybe you're okay with that. I'm okay with that too.

But my question is, what exactly have you done to even deserve to be in Heaven and not Hell if it's real? Or do you really just think you deserve a free ride and shouldn't have to do anything? Even something as simple as simply accepting the basically free ride Jesus has given you? I mean, if you can't even accept something that someone's trying to just give you and you're not willing to work for it either how could anyone make it any easier for you?

In other words, you won't accept God no matter what or no matter how it works. Both ways doesn't make any sense to you. So, why even talk about it?

[edit on 11-11-2009 by tinfoilman]

Hell (Hades & Sheol) is the common grave on mankind from which a resurrection is possible. (No suffering or torment is involved, just death.) Ecl. 9:5

Gehenna is place of complete annihilation where one ceases to exist and no resurrection is possible.

To show that Gehenna is not a literal place but a symbolic place, the Bible speaks of Death and Hades eventually being cast into Gehenna. These cannot experience pain or suffering.

[edit on 11/11/2009 by Sparky63]
(edited to remove double negative)

[edit on 11/11/2009 by Sparky63]

reply to post by dominicus

An individual is born on this planet into biased surroundings that will have overwhelming odds against being Judeo-Christian, will inevitably sin, has no choice in being created, and if they don't choose Christ they go to Hell

I have always been favor for the underdog. he he.

The Bible says that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God(Rom3:23)But Relax, they wont go to hell.

If a person who has never herd the gospel lives their lives to the best of there ability, they are simply doing works for salvation. Salvation is by grace.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Originally posted by xynephadyn

Hell is for the sickest of the sickest souls- Hitler for example. About 1% of all who die on earth get marked for hell. It is nothing to be afraid of, you will not end up there.

I hate the Christian Fear Propaganda about going to hell if you dont believe in this or do this or that. Its all bullcrap. Truth is- God had to create a place for the blackest of souls to go- so that they are not mixed in with the general population on the otherside.

I feel the need to comment on your statement of hating propaganda by citing propaganda. I doubt Hitler would be one of the sickest souls that would deserve to go to hell. I too hate Christian propaganda, and all propaganda for that matter. Sending Hitler to hell as a 1% er would be akin to sending any number of world leaders to hell for the same reasons.

In truth, I doubt there is a hell, or a heaven except for that which we make ourselves. I'm not denying the holocaust, because that is a crime, I'm denying the crap they fed us in school about the actual cause and effect of the circumstance. Although it is ingrained in us to accept what we were told about WW2, I suspect it is much the same as what we have been told about Christianity, lies to ensure our complicity to the system currently in place.

So to believe in hell, or to believe in heaven or the bible for that matter is to accept that whatever base lies that have been told throughout history have some basis of fact. Either most of it is based on lies, or should we go back to burning witches?

Just sayin
..ex

Hell is what you make of it.

If this is hell because of all "modern day society and its sins" then I enjoy it very much. Heaven must be a really boring place.

Originally posted by Epsillion70
I got to laugh at this topic

Like hasn't any one worked it out yet. That religion invented this idea of sin and hell so we would all do what they say and be good sheeple and obedient to the Church clergy etc etc and then we get to earn the right to go to there idea of heaven.
HELLO, wake up people!
Isn't there enough wars, famines diseases, pestilulence, rape, murder, killing hate, rage, envy, lust and just about any crime imaginable being committed against one another out there for one to surely think that this place we call
reality right now is the actual "friggin" Hell and infact we not escaping nothing.

So I say this need not be people as one can show a bit of heaven here as well.




[edit on 10-11-2009 by Epsillion70]

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Epsillion70]

I had a good laugh at this post
Like hasn't any one worked it out yet. If you dont believe in God and the promise then you are trapped in a lie.
HELLO, wake up people!
The reason there is wars, famine etc is not because of things people do in the pursuit of God, it's a lie...

It's a direct result of people........................turning away from God!

reply to post by dominicus


i am a christian but do not believe in an eternal hell. unless the person in hell chooses for it to be eternal.

Hell is an absurd concept. I have known so many "Christians" who are greedy, petty, stupid, mean, angry, abusive, judgmental, preachy... In fact the kindest most enlightened people I have met by and large were not Christian. I am certainly not saying all Christians are like this, however my point is that why would God save them and send these other people who are great people to hell merely because they didn't go to church or believe in Jesus?

The only kind of God who would do that is an insane, cruel, sadistic God.

To me, hell is not a fiery inferno where "bad" people get sent. "Bad" people exist because they were meant to exist at that time. Nothing in the universe happens as a mistake.

I believe hell to be a symbolic message for those who feel themselves apart from God, or love, or one-ness, or the life-energy, or the 'source', or whatever word you'd like to use. One who tries to find love outside of themselves will be damned to hell until they realize it is truly inside of them
Hell is just a place of suffering, and misery...but is attainable on Earth.
No fire involved.

That's my personal take on it.

Oh no...Not another pseudo-christian thread!
I thought we were long passed this issue!

I mean, not that the idea of the OP is wrong, but its just useless and more then easy to debunk what most people think christianity is (thats why I called it pseudo-christian).

Whoever is still a follower of this pseudo-christianity wont change a single bit by reading things like these threads, in fact it will only be an opportunity for them to harden their beliefs (dont even wanna know how it happens, just know it does).

reply to post by Geladinhu


People do change...

4 years ago I called myself a Christian...I thought I had to be saved through the blood ect. I grew up in this belief and I accepted without discerning it.

With many different experiences and thoughts from other people, I began to see things were not as I accepted.

People do change, though it may be few at a time, there is change going on.

The majority wont listen...but there are always a few that are seeking understanding. I have met alot of people that have the same story as I do. They grew up one way then found themselves seeking on their own because something didnt feel right.

Dont ever loose hope!

reply to post by iamsupermanv2


I think you can only get forgiveness if you feel remorse for what you've done. Also the thing about good people who don't believe in God getting into heaven isn't technically true, but they don't go to hell either. They go to Limbo with the dead unbaptized babies. Also if pray for forgiveness you must go to purgatory to be purged of your sins before you go to heaven.

reply to post by dominicus


Agreed, the hell hypothesis makes no sense whatsoever and really the Bible isn't 100% clear on what hell is. There is Gehenna, Hell, the pit, Sheoul and Hades all mentioned in the Bible and then of course, at the end of it all, there is the Lake of Fire which most people would deem the actual HELL.

The idea that we are all born guilty, born into the sin's of Adam and Eve, seems like just a ploy to get us burdened by guilt at a very early age in order to make us easier to control. This whole obey or burn, reject a God you can't see or hear and be damned, doubt and die forever. It's definitely the work and invention of man not of a loving divine being.