State to 'spy' on every phone call, email and web search

I'd put on a disguise, and go into an internet cafe - simple

And when your being really naughty, be quick...

[edit on 10-11-2009 by NibiruWarrior]

they're spying on us right now? what about ATS? will the resistence be labelled terrorists and sent to execution? this is why i'd rather be abducted by aliens then live in this country. >__<
"land of the free" my a--.

[edit on 11/10/09 by ohsnaptruth]

I'm surprised the thread has generated the interest that it has, I thought the Echelon system was common knowledge in this day and age.

I mean, I learned about it back in highschool. Its been in use since forever.

The technology Echelon uses is pretty common.

I have an application on my Iphone that listens to its surroundings and tells you what the name of the song/artist is of the music that is playing (if any)

Now actually listening from Satellites is another feat. But they have been able to do that since 1970s or before (correct me if I'm wrong.)

Originally posted by badgerprints
If this is the way things are going then all citizens of the free world should at least make it interesting.

We should make it a point to make a random phone call to an unknown number every day.

We can leave cryptic messages like ...

"The chair is against the door."

"The sun rises in the west."

"I'll have a deep fried pocket watch with thimbles on the side."

National Security against terrorist activity is not a joke. I guarantee that for those comments you have been elevated in threat level. But seeing as how I have nothing to do with the government I too have probably been elevated in threat level for speaking out on an assumption in regards to national security that I cannot prove. And if I could prove it I would probably be elevated even more.

reply to post by kayne1982

It has been going on for years, just not known to the public.

Room 641a - the keystone to the FISA investigation and retro immunity

Bush cleared the Telcos after the fact, ie. retroactive immunity.

Don't take me as pro-liberal or pro-neo-con, I don't trust either.

Two sides to the same coin.

Ignore their mouths, watch their actions.

reply to post by kayne1982


Thanks OP, S&F. A timely reminder of this horrendous legislation that is on the books for us. I wonder why The Telegraph chose to print this story today. It's been doing the rounds all year.

What I find astonishing is that this is even getting off the drawing board let alone it becoming law. It's like we as a nation have become blind to the types of government tactics that we expected of the KGB in the Cold War. Have we forgotten that we are supposed to be born free? Have we forgotten that the state is there to serve the us, not the other way round? Have we forgotten that our greatest writers and intellectuals have been warning us against this for 100 years?

Such powers are manifestly wrong and immoral, regardless of any percieved threat of terrorism. Even if the UK broke out into civil war there would still be no justifiable reason for the government to collect such data.The future is going to be far worse than even the bleakest dystopian futures described in British sci-fi.

On a side note I do find the psychology of the NWOs actions fascinating. When you study it you realise that countries have their own particular personalities. The above mentioned law is going to pass without a problem, allegedly 29% of the population already support it. But this law could not be introduced yet to the US or many other countries around the world. While at the same time big steps are being taken towards the police state in the US that could not yet happen here. At present the NWO has to tailor their plans for each country.

Eventually of course we will all live under the same laws. But until then, each country's path toward that end will be unique. I really wish the US constitution and bill of rights were law here. You guys over the pond had the most perfect start possible for a nation. You even had laws requiring corporations to be temporary entities brought into existence for a particular purpose and broken up again when the job was done.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by sharps]

Same sort of rubbish they are trying in new zealand from two fronts: copyright laws and 'search and surveillance' bills aka big brother bill. Funny thing is telcos are fighting both which is great for a change.

Ewe... So like if i email my councellor and discuss my personaly problems w/ her that no one else on the face of this mudball should see or know, the Government reads it and most likely gets-off on it? This isnt only a crime against 'human-rights' and my privacy, but its a bit perverted and way creepy. I already knew/know about this problem and its one of the reasons why i refuse to get any kind of vaccination. God only knows how many (if any) tracking devices they have on me already. I guess the only way to really be sure is to have a fullbody x-ray done and be allowed to view their results before theyre doctored by...the doctor. Anyhow this problem has been around since Roswell atleast, and w/ the increase of technological advances, this problem will only get worse. Newborn babies are probably being implanted w/ monitoring devices after theyre taken from their mothers. Your pets arent the only ones havingtracking devices put in them, theyre being put into every Tom Dick and Harry, but against their will and knowledge, thats the biggest difference.

Sure they should place these chips in Convicted criminals against their will because that way they can be found nomatter where they hide or where they offend, but to just plant chips into EVERYONE's body or cellphones, thats another story. And to just monitor EVERYONE and ANYONE, i dont agree with that crap. I never use the phone or cellphone as it is, but i do often use the internet. I may not go anyway illegal or threatening to USA, but its my privacy, my freedom theyre ripping away. I wonder how many microscopic listening/viewing devices they have hidden in our homes so far, or how many theyre are in public places. Howmany G-Men and Majestic agents have to watch us go pee-pee just to see if we're really up to anything 'bad' or 'contrary' to what they beleive in. If you know there is or are surveilance devices in your home or anywhere else, you should get near them and start talking like youre insane, you could also dress up lie someone from StarWars or StarTrek and openly address these devices and put on a really good (or Crappy) Display for these bored as hell G-Men who's job it is to sit infront of a surveilance screen all day...

Have you examined your houseplants today? You have to actually laugh at this, the Government has gotten even stupider than first antisipated (Sorry kant speel hard wordz) But are they really watching us to see how much we know? Or are they just impotent and need this step in extremes to add some excitement into their lives and use 'fear of higher intelligence and threats of terrorism' as an excuse to watch us and listen to us. Is reality TV that desperate these days? Just trying to lighten up, because getting outraged and going through my house with some dowsing-rods isnt going to make it easier for me to handle. And Smellovision? when will human Government stupidity cease to amaze me.

In a perfect world, we could make a list and vote these people out.

But stupid people have been out numbering smart people at the voting booth for years, decades even.

Which only gives us one other much less desirable option.

And with so many cowards in the country, even that is not much of an option.

(USA)

Why dont they just stop wasting time and release the

"we can do what ever the F#@K we want bill"

seriously does anybody care at this stage of the game. i know i dont.

The ability to monitor, transcribe to text, record and sort verbal communication has been possible since the late 70's early 80's. Bell Labs worked on it since the 50’s.

ESCHELON had been in development since “47” (UKUSA treaty) and most people know the SIGNET capabilities it has had. Designed to intercept virtually all email and fax traffic in the world and subject it to automated analysis… Later came email and IM. Actually anything running on the DARPA internet of today is fodder.

The program that makes it possible started off as a document management system for the DOJ in the mid 70’s. The program was called Prosecutor's Management Information System (Promis). The company that first made PROMIS is called Inslaw, Inc.

What is Promis?

...Designed as a case-management system for prosecutors, PROMIS has the ability to track people. "Every use of PROMIS in the court system is tracking people," said Inslaw President Hamilton. "You can rotate the file by case, defendant, arresting officer, judge, defense lawyer, and it's tracking all the names of all the people in all the cases."
What this means is that PROMIS can provide a complete rundown of all federal cases in which a lawyer has been involved, or all the cases in which a lawyer has represented defendant A, or all the cases in which a lawyer has represented white-collar criminals, at which stage in each of the cases the lawyer agreed to a plea bargain, and so on. Based on this information, PROMIS can help a prosecutor determine when a plea will be taken in a particular type of case.
But the real power of PROMIS, according to Hamilton, is that with a staggering 570,000 lines of computer code, PROMIS can integrate innumerable databases without requiring any reprogramming. In essence, PROMIS can turn blind data into information. And anyone in government will tell you that information, when wielded with finesse, begets power. Converted to use by intelligence agencies, as has been alleged in interviews by ex-CIA and Israeli Mossad agents, PROMIS can be a powerful tracking device capable of monitoring intelligence operations, agents and targets, instead of legal cases.
—Richard L. Fricker, Wired magazine, 1993, "The INSLAW Octopus".[1]

More from the same article --
PROMIS has the ability to combine disparate databases, and to track people by their involvement with the legal system.
Imagine you are in charge of the legal arm of the most powerful government on the face of the globe, but your internal information systems are mired in the archaic technology of the 1960s. There's a Department of Justice database, a CIA database, an Attorney's General database, an IRS database, and so on, but none of them can share information. That makes tracking multiple offenders pretty darn difficult, and building cases against them a long and bureaucratic task.
Along comes a computer program that can integrate all these databases
—Fricker, Wired

A different author --
Working from either huge mainframe computer systems or smaller networks powered by the progenitors of today's PCs, PROMIS, from its first "test drive" a quarter century ago, was able to do one thing that no other program had ever been able to do. It was able to simultaneously read and integrate any number of different computer programs or data bases simultaneously, regardless of the language in which the original programs had been written or the operating system or platforms on which that data base was then currently installed.
—Michael Ruppert, FTW.[2]

In the mid 1970s, at least as far as computer programs were concerned, the "universal translator" of Star Trek had become a reality. And the realm of Star Trek is exactly where most of the major media would have the general public place the Promis story in their world views. But given the fact that the government of Canada has just spent millions of dollars investigating whether or not a special version of Promis, equipped with a so-called "back door" has compromised its national security, one must concede that perhaps the myths surrounding Promis and what has happened to it need to be re-evaluated. Myths, by definition, cannot be solved, but facts can be understood and integrated. Only a very few people realize how big the Promis story really is.

The Promis-managed data could be anything from financial records of banking institutions to compilations of various records used to track the movement of terrorists

There is some good stories about Inslaw and the PROMIS debacle dealing with espionage and about a dozen deaths, drug dealing, software piracy, Indian reservations and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police documented in the following links. Good reads.

Echelon
whatreallyhappened.com...

Promis software
en.wikipedia.org...

Inslaw
en.wikipedia.org...

The last Circle
www.lycaeum.org...

Wired
www.wired.com...

www.fromthewilderness.com...


[edit on 11/10/2009 by staple]

I fear for what this means for all persons privacy. Its only a matter of time before these laws start to slip and sneak their way into the US. Hopefully the people speak out against this enough and let them know their privacy and private communications are NOT their business.

And I hate to get a tiny bit off topic, but I cannot stress this enough..

ENCRYPTION!

I believe currently the highest bit encryption is 4096. This is a serious obstacle for even the military and their most powerful PCs. Just to put this into perspective, lets take a look at only a 512-bit encryption key..

For the sake of argument, let’s say we unleash 4.3 billion computers for the purpose of distributed cracking. This means that it would be 4.3 billion or 2 to the 32 times faster than a single computer. This means we could simply take 2 to the 128 combinations for 128-bit encryption and divide it by 2 to the 32 which means that 2 to the 96 bits are left. With 96 bits left, it’s still 4.3 billion times stronger than 64 bit encryption. 64 bit encryption happens to be the world record for the biggest RC5 bit key cracked in 2002 which took nearly 5 years to achieve for a massive distributed attack.

Now that we know that the distributed attacks will only shave off a few bits, what about Moore’s law which historically meant that computers roughly doubled in speed every 18 months? That means in 48 years we can shave another 32 bits off the encryption armor which means 5 trillion future computers might get lucky in 5 years to find the key for RC5 128-bit encryption. But with 256-bit AES encryption, that moves the date out another 192 years before computers are predicted to be fast enough to even attempt a massively distributed attack. To give you an idea how big 256 bits is, it’s roughly equal to the number of atoms in the universe!

blogs.zdnet.com...

So as you can see, even a 128-bit key would take substantially long to crack. If we were to use a 2048-bit key, we're talking thirty billion years for a computer to crack. Even with the fastest computers in existence, networked together, all working on this one cipher.. well.. I'd put my money on the cipher. There would almost be zero reason for them to try to read what you are writing since its practically impossible. Now, I'm not saying it cannot be cracked. Surely it can be. But would you waste thirty billion years to potentially uncover grandma's new chocolate chip cookie recipe? Its just not worth it.

There are plenty of web based encryption tools, my favorite being..

www.fourmilab.ch...

..Which provides a easy to use 1024-bit encryption method. Just to use an example, using a generated hexadecimal key...

Hexadecimal Key = "5F6C6FC9DFB10A03B49B024502531E256F60DBC50FE9ADCC54A215CB2738FC34"

I could type in a e-mail to somebody using this cipher...

##### Encrypted: decrypt with www.fourmilab.ch...
ZZZZZ JXIKF KVXWW UHHEI LAAJV ADIEQ IBINH MUCEL XPGRB JCDSA GVLSL
GBNKX KKKLA MFXCM HXABQ SFJSF VHLWQ LCINF GRXMK DQJVS QEPNR HOEBT
LRFHA APUUP TUXCA ECRFG ONURO QQFPK FHGBX KGTKU WDPTD HLSEW PLUQH
GEXXJ DKXKP OTTES NNTVT PMHIV NBRVQ EGSLS GSJRP BDGWK DRHCC APUUU
RTGOX IQQXZ YYYYY
##### End encrypted message

...And as long as they have the correct key to decrypt it, they will always be able to read the messages. As for somebody without the correct key.. you will be long gone (and generations after) before they ever will figure out what you wrote.

Give it a try if you want. I wont say what it says just to give you a little incentive to try it out and see how easily you can protect your written text with encryption.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
Why dont they just stop wasting time and release the

"we can do what ever the F#@K we want bill"

Oh that's simple, its the only way we can get funded,

Our new motto for the United States of America

United States of America- Losing one freedom at a time.

Originally posted by manmaidslave
Like the old NSA saying, "In God we trust, everyone else we monitor"

Absolutely

Originally posted by rickyrrr

Originally posted by tristar
Its a two way process,

Specter

Breaking into your computer may be. But spying on your "public" internet behavior is not a two way process. It is not necessary to break into someone's computer to spy on its network traffic unless it is strongly encrypted (web surfing, email, etc)

-rrr

What was that really interesting word used in the early 90's.....ummm..., oh yes, " Preemtive ".



Noun 1. pre-emptive strike - a surprise attack that is launched in order to prevent the enemy from doing it to you coup de main, surprise attack - an attack without warning

Anyone like the cookie factory ?

bbc radio mentioned this yesterday and they just laughed about it...made jokes...the bbc stinks..

[edit on 11-11-2009 by alienesque]

And to my fellow U.K. citizens, don't think your being left out of the picture, we do care and we do make sure that you feel safe from all those bad guys roaming the world.


"The US Menwith Hill station in Britain taps directly into the British Telecom microwave network, which has actually been designed with several major microwave links converging on an isolated tower connected underground into the station.

The NSA Menwith Hill station, with 22 satellite terminals and more than 4.9 acres of buildings, is undoubtedly the largest and most powerful in the UKUSA network. Located in northern England, several thousand kilometers from the Persian Gulf, it was awarded the NSA's "Station of the Year" prize for 1991 after its role in the Gulf War.

Menwith Hill assists in the interception of microwave communications in another way as well, by serving as a ground station for US electronic spy satellites. These intercept microwave trunk lines and short range communications such as military radios and walkie talkies. Other ground stations where the satellites' information is fed into the global network are Pine Gap, run by the CIA near Alice Springs in central Australia and the Bad Aibling station in Germany. Among them, the various stations and operations making up the ECHELON network tap into all the main components of the world's telecommunications networks. All of them, including a separate network of stations that intercepts long distance radio communications, have their own Dictionary computers connected into ECHELON."