Christian terrorists release Defensive Action Statement, justify political assassination

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by centurion1211
For all who cannot/will not see this for themselves, this thread is nothing more than a shameless smokescreen and attempt to deflect the discussion on ATS away from the tragic muslim-inspired events at Ft. Hood.

It is nothing more than an apologist/appeasers love fest.

I made this thread
I didn't have an opening post saying "look look, seee there's not only muslim exteremist.. seeeeeee"

Have I given you too much credit? No, I think you are only attempting to play dumb here.

Again, check my thread history, i have posted about abortion before, many times in fact.

Sure you have. Mostly they are also smokescreen threads and posts that attempt to deflect criticism away from the latest muslim outrage by talking about how one or two so-called Christians attack abortion clinics.

Smokescreen for the many threads on the fort hood incident?
You do know you can continue making those threads active right?

Right. Caught you red-handed.

This is a thread on it's own bro
feel free to contribute but please stop derailing the thread with your hate for other beliefs.

thx in advance

Sure it is.

And you are quite welcome.

Yes, i think people tend to overlook christian terrorists, most people associate the extremists of Christianity with things like jesus camp when imo they could and can be far more destructive, although that is bad in itself. As for abortion, i do not see it as murder within a certain time frame. After that im torn between giving the mother a right to do as she see's fit regarding having an abortion or writing in a law that makes sure she must carry the child which would then go up for adoption after being born. These days though people still have a fascination with having their own genetic offspring instead of adopting, which means the life of a child up for adoption is alot of the time not a very good one. So that's another thing to consider. I will likely never have children but if that changes in the future i will no doubt be adopting...bit off topic.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by Solomons]

Jehova is a vengeful God, he makes this very clear. He also makes it clear that he is like a father and therefore it is fully understandable if christians learn by following his example.

To a non christian, or someone who disagrees with biblical teachings then these incidents are without justification, but to a god fearing christian they are perfectly justifiable.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Oh my god, those radical extremist christians. They are killing people based soley on their religion.

How do our god fearing members that jumped on the "He did it cause he was a muslim!" bandwagon feel about that?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia


I made this thread
I didn't have an opening post saying "look look, seee there's not only muslim exteremist.. seeeeeee"

Again, check my thread history, i have posted about abortion before, many times in fact.

Smokescreen for the many threads on the fort hood incident?
You do know you can continue making those threads active right?

This is a thread on it's own bro
feel free to contribute but please stop derailing the thread with your hate for other beliefs.

thx in advance

I agree.

This isn't about that thread. This is about those that are for the anti-abortion movement hiding behind Christianity and murdering others.

I personally am on the pro-choice side (not that that matters) but I find it disgusting that someone can't fight for what they believe in a civil manner and decide violence is the only way. They do tarnish the whole movement. While I am not for the movement I would rather see a calm protest then see people bombing abortion clinics killing someone's mother, daughter, sister, brother or father who are already here on this earth. Just because someone doesn't agree with your stance doesn't mean you should seek revenge by killing them.

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
Jehova is a vengeful God, he makes this very clear. He also makes it clear that he is like a father and therefore it is fully understandable if christians learn by following his example.

To a non christian, or someone who disagrees with biblical teachings then these incidents are without justification, but to a god fearing christian they are perfectly justifiable.

Oh, absolutely.

That's exactly why the world is now tormented by waves of Christians martyring themselves and any non-believers they can take with them.

Oh wait, I should have said muslims instead of Christians.

My bad ...

reply to post by ModernAcademia

It's almost 2010 and people still feel as if they need an archaic sci-fi book to think for them.

Speaking of Sci-Fi religion and the devil, have you ever read Operation Chaos by Poul Anderson (1971) I am sure it is on some banned book lists.....

Originally posted by canadianmouse

Originally posted by ModernAcademia


I made this thread
I didn't have an opening post saying "look look, seee there's not only muslim exteremist.. seeeeeee"

Again, check my thread history, i have posted about abortion before, many times in fact.

Smokescreen for the many threads on the fort hood incident?
You do know you can continue making those threads active right?

This is a thread on it's own bro
feel free to contribute but please stop derailing the thread with your hate for other beliefs.

thx in advance

I agree.

This isn't about that thread. This is about those that are for the anti-abortion movement hiding behind Christianity and murdering others.

I personally am on the pro-choice side (not that that matters) but I find it disgusting that someone can't fight for what they believe in a civil manner and decide violence is the only way. They do tarnish the whole movement. While I am not for the movement I would rather see a calm protest then see people bombing abortion clinics killing someone's mother, daughter, sister, brother or father who are already here on this earth. Just because someone doesn't agree with your stance doesn't mean you should seek revenge by killing them.

Then lets also include the other "bookend" for this topic - the death penalty.

Are you one of those that is against the death penalty for convicted murderers?

Are you one of those that sees no philosophical conflict with being OK with killing innocent unborn children, while trying to keep convicted murderers alive? Do you justify your beliefs with the "already here on earth" argument?

Just wondering ...

Originally posted by Wobbly Anomaly
Jehova is a vengeful God, he makes this very clear. He also makes it clear that he is like a father and therefore it is fully understandable if christians learn by following his example.

To a non christian, or someone who disagrees with biblical teachings then these incidents are without justification, but to a god fearing christian they are perfectly justifiable.

How the hell would it be justifiable based on biblical teachings? The same bible that states "Thou shall not kill" is telling Christians "Thou shall not kill but if you want to be vengeful like I am that's okay!"

Maybe that is how radical Christians think, but that isn't what Christianity is suppose to be about. These people have twisted the bible's teachings to suit their cause. They are no better then any other extremist out there.

Originally posted by canadianmouse
How the hell would it be justifiable based on biblical teachings? The same bible that states "Thou shall not kill" is telling Christians "Thou shall not kill but if you want to be vengeful like I am that's okay!"

My friend, all abrahamic religions are FULL of contradictions.
You can't expect them to make sense

now to play devil's advocate, science says this, next day new research says otherwise.

the safest ground is to choose neutrality.

Originally posted by centurion1211


Then lets also include the other "bookend" for this topic - the death penalty.

Are you one of those that is against the death penalty for convicted murderers?

Are you one of those that sees no philosophical conflict with being OK with killing innocent unborn children, while trying to keep convicted murderers alive? Do you justify your beliefs with the "already here on earth" argument?

Just wondering ...

Here's the thing. This thread is about a group of people trying to justify killing anyone who has anything to do with abortion. You keep completely skirting that topic and are trying to make this thread go in a direction that you would rather see it go.

I ask you to please iterate what your stance is on the topic at hand. What do you think about this group? Do you think they are right? Do you think they are wrong? Why or why not?

It's not about Muslims. It's not about discussing whether abortion is right or not. It's about whether killing those who have anything to do with abortion is right.

reply to post by centurion1211


I am against the death penalty. Why because there are too much of a chance that an innocent person would die. I also find death is not justice, its revenge when it comes to the death penalty.

Abortion isn't murder to me nor will it ever be murder to me. A fetus does not breathe on its own. Pregnancy isn't easy for a woman to go through and there is a lot required of the female body in order to give birth. There are reasons as to why a woman may want to abort, and I support the woman's right to chose.
If we didn't have legal abortions many women would die by trying to perform the abortion themselves or hiring a backroom doctor.

With the death penalty there have been cases where people are put to death and found out years later that they were innocent. What do you do then? Say oh sorry our bad? Also the death penalty doesn't stop murder and doesn't prove anything other then giving people the revenge they seek. It is much harder to live with what you have done, then die. I am more for letting them live out their lives like a caged animal.

I think it is rather sad that the fact that this topic is about Christians means that some people have to derail the topic at hand because they don't like what it is suggesting.

This isn't about Muslims.

reply to post by canadianmouse


This is what is disturbing to me. Thinking like that described by the poster you were replying to. How can we ever think we can counter these people (no matter what their religion or belief is) if they are resolute in their thinking that killing someone is justified just because they don't share they same system of beliefs?

How can we ever turn it around? Is it even remotely possible?

Originally posted by centurion1211
For all who cannot/will not see this for themselves, this thread is nothing more than a shameless smokescreen and attempt to deflect the discussion on ATS away from the tragic muslim-inspired events at Ft. Hood.

It is nothing more than an apologist/appeasers love fest.

I was thinking the same thing,

Many forum members here, are like sharks who smell blood in the water,

It is always open season on Christians here.

The abortion debate is one that is going to last a long time, no matter how you look at it. Ultimately it is about choice of the mother who is carrying the unborn child, and not anyone else. I also believe that there needs to be more options offered to the woman who gets pregnant before she considers that option.
Now what the man did, in shooting a doctor in cold blood is wrong. There are alot of questions that I have, one being did he seek a more legal means to try to stop the doctor? Did he offer solutions for those seeking abortions? Or did the suspect act as judge, jury and executioner in this act?
Having belief is good, but when taking it to the extreme, it becomes fanatism, and there are way too many fanatics out there in the world today. I don't believe his defense will hold up in court and it will be a long court battle during and afterwards.
And the other thing that many people don't realise, is that if they get real authority, be afraid, cause then you will see something that many don't want, real terror.

[edit on 10-11-2009 by sdcigarpig]

Originally posted by nunya13
How can we ever turn it around? Is it even remotely possible?

Education!
is it possible? Yes
Will it happen? Probably not

Education is the most important thing
It's more important than money, more important than the economy, more important than national security and the kitchen sink.

Because if you have no education, you won't understand the problem.
And that is PRECISELY the problem we are having today

reply to post by centurion1211

For all who cannot/will not see this for themselves, this thread is nothing more than a shameless smokescreen and attempt to deflect the discussion on ATS away from the tragic muslim-inspired events at Ft. Hood.

It is nothing more than an apologist/appeasers love fest.

I do not see that at all. I see someone pointing out religious Extremists murdering people and calling both sets, Muslim and Christian, murderers.

Muslims do not have an exclusive on murderous extremism and That is the subject matter of the debate.

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by canadianmouse

 

This is what is disturbing to me. Thinking like that described by the poster you were replying to. How can we ever think we can counter these people (no matter what their religion or belief is) if they are resolute in their thinking that killing someone is justified just because they don't share they same system of beliefs?

How can we ever turn it around? Is it even remotely possible?

I don't think we will ever turn it around because there is always something that the majority believes and if you aren't on that bandwagon then you deserve to be faught. History shows that time and time again. For some reason we don't seem to learn from our mistakes. It doesn't matter if it is religion or a cause. For some reason violence ends up being the end result of how we decide to get our point across. For some reason there always ends up being people out there with radical views.

You would think in this day and age we would be much more advance to be able to fight for what we believe in without violence.

reply to post by canadianmouse


I think you make a very good point about these being nothing more than vengeance killings. I agree with you.

I like the saying, "Why do we kill people who kill people to show that killing people is wrong".

Killing any living, conscious person is wrong. An unborn fetus is a different matter because it is debatable as to whether or not they are even conscious (i.e. aware of their existence). Especially since their very existence is fully reliant on the existence of another. See, I have my own opinion that anything after the first trimester is wrong. But I'm would never go so far as to condemn someone for doing so just because they share a different opinion.

I read an interesting op-ed once written by someone who worked at an abortion clinic. She was the one who determined whether the mother should be given an abortion based on their state of mind (or something to that affect). She was absolutely astounded by the number of women that came in to the clinic to get an abortion and had to point out that they were against abortion. So this goes to show how important a woman's right to chose is. Even women who advocate against abortion are willing to get one.